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Deltarune: Chapter 5 (SPOILER!!) Discussion Thread

AcidSilver said:
Personally I do see the damage that Flowery did to the Knight to have been real even if the stats were fake. Flowery acts like the Knight should’ve been hurt by it and the Knight does that glitching effect it does when you’ve dealt enough damage in Chapter 3.

It’s just that because Flowery’s stats are fake that the Knight can just go “no” to the damage they take from him since the Knight is also aware of the meta aspects of the battle system. If Flowery actually had max stats then the Knight might not have been able to do the same thing.
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We agree that Flowery damages the Knight, we just think the value isn't 999, yk?
 
Tbh this fake stats debate is actually kinda important, as it doesn’t just affect Flowery’s fake stats but also his real stats too. Based off of Charmander’s interpretation, Flowery would scale a lot higher than the Chapter 3 Gang for being able to glitch the Knight with every physical blow (meaning he’d be doing 100+ damage for each attack). Based on the other interpretation Flowery is at best comparable if not far weaker than the Chapter 3 Gang, as that interpretation states that Flowery’s actual damage was 0 (whereas the Gang could at least somewhat hurt the Knight). Flowery blocking the Knight’s sword with his arm isn’t really a notable argument for either side since that same sword sliced him in half once the Knight got more serious.
 
Current progress of Aqua and Seth's draft profile. The former's going along pretty well, just gonna need to add and tweak some things in it to finish before moving onto the other profile.
The latter, while not in the same progress as Aqua's, is still getting some decent progress overall. Just need to recheck some scenes to come up with descriptions for the profile's sections...

In the meantime, thinking about starting on Yellow's profile draft too, although I am leaving it open for someone if they want to make it instead...
 
Flowerguy2 said:
Current progress of Aqua and Seth's draft profile. The former's going along pretty well, just gonna need to add and tweak some things in it to finish before moving onto the other profile.
The latter, while not in the same progress as Aqua's, is still getting some decent progress overall. Just need to recheck some scenes to come up with descriptions for the profile's sections...

In the meantime, thinking about starting on Yellow's profile draft too, although I am leaving it open for someone if they want to make it instead...
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Do we need to add another Physiology for this type of lightner ? They're lightner but can't move, I think
 
Ghengiroo115 said:
Tbh this fake stats debate is actually kinda important, as it doesn’t just affect Flowery’s fake stats but also his real stats too. Based off of Charmander’s interpretation, Flowery would scale a lot higher than the Chapter 3 Gang for being able to glitch the Knight with every physical blow (meaning he’d be doing 100+ damage for each attack). Based on the other interpretation Flowery is at best comparable if not far weaker than the Chapter 3 Gang, as that interpretation states that Flowery’s actual damage was 0 (whereas the Gang could at least somewhat hurt the Knight). Flowery blocking the Knight’s sword with his arm isn’t really a notable argument for either side since that same sword sliced him in half once the Knight got more serious.
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Flowery should be individually comparable to Chapter 5 Fun Gang, as he needs to be healed after one hit from Kris, and can three-four shot the gang at their peak equipment. His Omega Self should be either 7x higher than base, or just "comparable to Orange Soul Kris"
 
GodlyCharmander said:
Flowery should be individually comparable to Chapter 5 Fun Gang, as he needs to be healed after one hit from Kris, and can three-four shot the gang at their peak equipment. His Omega Self should be either 7x higher than base, or just "comparable to Orange Soul Kris"
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Nah that was Flowery empowered by his RECRUITs Thrash Machine style.
 
Eden_Warlock99 said:
Nah that was Flowery empowered by his RECRUITs Thrash Machine style.
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... Unironically? Since his FloweryScarf is supposed to be his ultimate weapon and it breaks down to a mere ruse (just like he is, as the scarf describes).

I think I might buy the idea that base Flowery is a bum. His afterimages do change color after he has his recruits and he IS still using the rainbow colored one when facing the knight, so perhaps-
 
GodlyCharmander said:
... Unironically? Since his FloweryScarf is supposed to be his ultimate weapon and it breaks down to a mere ruse (just like he is, as the scarf describes).

I think I might buy the idea that base Flowery is a bum. His afterimages do change color after he has his recruits and he IS still using the rainbow colored one when facing the knight, so perhaps-
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Oh no, I'm stupid, nvm. Maybe the rainbow afterimages is when he's using his fake stats?

Anyway, Chess theory is DEAD
 
I’m still wondering how Kris was able to fight on par with Omega Flowery at the end.

It being from the Orange Soul is weird because they had the Orange Soul the entire fight. Maybe it can make Kris stronger based on enough movement/speed/charging?

It being emotional empowerment is kind of consistent with their previous examples of Rage Power, however those instances only raised their damage output and not durability. Maybe different emotions give different effects?

It being them holding back the entire time could maybe work, if it wasn’t for the fact that they’re a physical being who shouldn’t really be able to lower their durability.

Maybe they could just be drawing power directly from the Soul, kinda like how certain Acts like Red Buster work?
 
Ghengiroo115 said:
I’m still wondering how Kris was able to fight on par with Omega Flowery at the end.

It being from the Orange Soul is weird because they had the Orange Soul the entire fight. Maybe it can make Kris stronger based on enough movement/speed/charging?

It being emotional empowerment is kind of consistent with their previous examples of Rage Power, however those instances only raised their damage output and not durability. Maybe different emotions give different effects?

It being them holding back the entire time could maybe work, if it wasn’t for the fact that they’re a physical being who shouldn’t really be able to lower their durability.

Maybe they could just be drawing power directly from the Soul, kinda like how certain Acts like Red Buster work?
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We need rude sword back
 
Omegabronic said:
Btw were y'all confused why the Manequin protect against Spamtom NEO Specifically and the Tasques?... Yeah... guess NEO body was Mad Dummy's... Aka.... Spamtom NEO is, now... CANNONICALLY A FURRY CATGIRL... do what you will with this info
Click to expand...
 
Ghengiroo115 said:
I’m still wondering how Kris was able to fight on par with Omega Flowery at the end.

It being from the Orange Soul is weird because they had the Orange Soul the entire fight. Maybe it can make Kris stronger based on enough movement/speed/charging?

It being emotional empowerment is kind of consistent with their previous examples of Rage Power, however those instances only raised their damage output and not durability. Maybe different emotions give different effects?

It being them holding back the entire time could maybe work, if it wasn’t for the fact that they’re a physical being who shouldn’t really be able to lower their durability.

Maybe they could just be drawing power directly from the Soul, kinda like how certain Acts like Red Buster work?
Click to expand...
Kris canonically holds back, so
 
What do you guys think about the theory that Ralsei is a big ass tree that has roots all across the hometown, and this is how he can travel between worlds so easily? As in, he's just like Flowery, which is why he was said to be "an impossibility" just like Flowery was, and could potentially break the rules. Not a darkner, nor a lightner.
 
GodlyCharmander said:
They're going to use the Kitsune fox sun to get 4-B.

Too bad, the Kitsune both proves the sun is fake, and that even if we consider it to be real, it's not very big.
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Hmm? Just wondering, how do we know it's not big?

Also note how I did actually mention the possibility of it turning into a sun VS using illusions to look like a sun. What are your thoughts on that point in particular?
 
Eden_Warlock99 said:
They're "fake" in the sense that he just gave himself those stats as a byproduct of him willing it/understanding how Dark Worlds work as a fantasy rather than through "natural" means like LVing up or getting better equipment. Basically like how in Lucid Dream you can basically do anything you believe you can.
So then it makes sense for Fantasy-Breaker Roaring Knight, the lad who forces you to face reality, to be the one thing immune to it.

Like come on man

The issue is that your interpretation, and I'm talking SPECIFICALLY AND ONLY your interpretation, ends up making that scene completely nonsensical.
Either that or making Flowery as dumb as a rock.

Like I dunno why you're so against the big on fantasy verse having the standard "You can do whatever you want in your dreams" logic that basically every similar verse has.
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This is honestly exactly as I'm putting it. Roaring Knight it basically John "Wake up you're dreaming it's time to face reality" so Dark World bypass makes sense, especially considering we have to remember the nature of flowers in the sense that they experience both the Light and Dark Worlds in similar ways. It'd make sense for Flowery to not truly grasp that someone can beat him in what is essentially his own dream!
 
GodlyCharmander said:
It's quite funny you think you could argue with me.

Tell me which object got turned into the sun. You can't.
Tell me why is there a sun at all if not for fantasy. You can't.
Tell me why the sky changes in several moments and why the background turns black once Asgore gives up on the dream. You can't.
Tell me why that particular room, which is literally just an open space to the sunset, would be the only place where the sun is fake. You can't.
Tell me why the sun can move up and down based on vibes. You can't.


You will genuinely believe that the characters that get stopped by rocks, and can't break a wooden door are Solar System level over admitting the scaling makes no sense.
Click to expand...
(why is it green in that specific room though? can you answer that?)
 
Randomuser3412 said:
I think the sun is supposed to be the Flower's doing, to be honest. It looks like it changes color from the Flower's power. Anyway, the clouds go behind the sun, so it's not real lol
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Toby Fox has some weird spriting issues at times, but this makes sense against the sun being real lmao

NOT SAYING IT'S ARTSTYLE, I'm saying that even if it was artstyle, something like this would need to be accurate to be catalogued anyways, and this is not accurate.
 
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GodlyCharmander said:
What do you guys think about the theory that Ralsei is a big ass tree that has roots all across the hometown, and this is how he can travel between worlds so easily? As in, he's just like Flowery, which is why he was said to be "an impossibility" just like Flowery was, and could potentially break the rules. Not a darkner, nor a lightner.
Click to expand...
That's actually kinda tuff, tell me more
 
Eden_Warlock99 said:
No. Under my interpretation, the Knight ends the interaction completely undamaged.
  • Me interpretation: Flowery initially does deal damage (the "999s"), which is why the Knight starts glitching out. But alas the Knight sees through it and cuts the fake stats, retroactively invalidating the damage Flowery dealt. As in he ends up dealing no damage. That’s what the "000s" represent.
  • Your interpretation: Flowery is using his real stats to damage the Knight, while simply masking it with fake “999s.” The Knight sees through the fake display and continues the fight regardless. The "000s" are then just a visual indicator of the Knight ignoring the illusion.
The main difference is that I read the "000s" as an actual indication of Flowery's damage, whereas you seem to treat them as the Knight simply disregarding the display numbers entirely. May I ask then If that’s the case, why even display "000" specifically?

And also, why was Flowery so surprised when the Knight swung again? If it was purely for show and they weren’t actually feeling any major pain, then the 999s shouldn’t have affected their willingness to fight at all. If anything the fact they weren't hurt as bad as the display shows would make LITERALLY everyone "Ignore [His] fake statistics."
So why the surprise?
Click to expand...
THAT'S THE THING! The Knight only glitches when they take damage! The fact she stopped glitching after cutting through the illusory nature of the Dark World lines up with this!
 
Eden_Warlock99 said:
Nah that was Flowery empowered by his RECRUITs Thrash Machine style.
Click to expand...
I feel this should be taken somewhat seriously if we are still to believe that GIGA Queen is actually stronger than the Knight as stated, yet got beaten by Recruits through the Thrash Machine.
 
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