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Damn, I started a new flying balls meta, hope it will live and upgrade manga and anime speed scaling. Also we need to revision Namek explosion calcs and the planet's size
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All Purpose Dragon Ball Thread
- Thread starter Warren_Valion
- Start date
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Some of those calcs are blatantly wrong, Cells Kamehamega can at most reach several 10,000 kms above earths surface within any given timeframe, we can clearly see the earth’s curvature on panel where it reaches space
The expansion speed of Cells Kamehameha ( which doesn’t happen) is at best a few single digits FTL (30 s) useless for scaling.
Genkidama energy gathering speed has no clear line of scaling to the characters
The expansion speed of Cells Kamehameha ( which doesn’t happen) is at best a few single digits FTL (30 s) useless for scaling.
Genkidama energy gathering speed has no clear line of scaling to the characters
Breadbear83
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How the hell do they think a FTL+ and 4B character can even be a threat to the universe, in billions of years they still wouldn't destroy the universe if they are those tiersUsing Buu and Cell for speed calcs were rejected by staff
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The game was rigged from the start...Using Buu and Cell for speed calcs were rejected by staff
Ginyu's body swap being SoL was rejected in this thread
ProudLearner
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The problem with Vs Battle Wiki is that, no matter how many Dragon Ball CRTs are passed, eventually, in two or three years, new staff will show up with a different interpretation and downgrade it.
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thats what happens to every verse
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Depends... why do we assume the two characters who are constantly hyped as growing exponetionally stronger over the course of their arcs would stagnate instead of simply... growing stronger and faster to do the feats?
Eden_Warlock99
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How does this apply to Buu? He only got stronger by absorbing stronger people so ???
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Including saiyans, who he gained the abilities of, including their rapidly growth in power
Fair for Kid Buu tho... but he DID have IT to teleport, so
Eden_Warlock99
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Did he? You'd think it would come up considering just how many times Buuhan gets eviscerated and comes back.
Saiyans growing passively is kinda a Super thing too, so it would have the same problem as the 50 year timeframe of Beerus waking up.
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This is utter head canon, he didn't get a single zenkai after all the times he was blown up
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... how do you know that? Why would he gain all the powers from the ones he biologivally absorbed... exept the one thing Saiyan Biology gives?
Eden_Warlock99
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I think even if he inherited Zenkai boosts, he'd never trigger it. Like I don't think the way his regen works lets him to be put in a near-death state.
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You do know Saiyans grow stronger rapidly regardless right?
Also... i don't see why his regen wouldn't allow it to trigger it? What's the difference between that and Cell's?
Eden_Warlock99
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Super retcon
Cause if you punch Cell in the face, you're going to damage him. If you do the same to Buu, it's not doing anything. The way Buu's regen works it's all or nothing.
Also imagine how stupid Buucolo or Buuhan are if they all had to do to beat Gohan + Goku/Vegito is blowing themselves up a few times lol
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I wouldn't call newly revealed information "retcon" but like... I don't see your point? It retroactively applies? Also... Goten and Trunks got so much potential that they went Super Saiyan at 7 & 8 year olds without doing any hardcore training... pretty sure they would have it either way
Huh... no? If you do the same to Buu... he will receive the damage, then heal the Damage... he is not invulnerable
You just described how regeneration works, damage does nothing as you just heal up
I mean... the fusion amp may just be that high i guess, not like he would be able to do that before they killed him for good anyway
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Remember when Goku destroyed Hit's dimensions? It was stated to be made of timeskips he has made in different places and Hit did timeskips in Neutral Space, would that scale (after Goku black saga)Goku to Neutral Space?
Eden_Warlock99
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So then it's fine to use Elder Kai’s estimate of how long it’d take Beerus to wake up, a.k.a. Buutenks and Kid Buu would’ve destroyed the universe within 50 years tops.
Even in Super, Saiyans don’t passively grow stronger just by sitting on their ass or doing menial chores either, like they have to actually go out and fight comparable foes to get the super duper boosts, which Buu obviously wasn't going to find in his rampage.
Cell still has to expend energy to regenerate and if he doesn't he just stays injured.
Buu can deform and pull his body parts off with no real harm to himself.
Even then, nothing indicates Cell got a Zenkai after Vegeta's Final Flash or Goku's Instant Kamehameha, so clearly something needs to almost kill him (He did say him surviving his Self-Destruct was a miracle) to even trigger it. Buu's regen is leagues better than Cell's, what's putting him at near-death lol
Ultimate Gohan was weaker than x2 Super Buu, I really doubt Buu being able to spam SPC-esque Zenkais couldn't have breached that gap.
Not to mention, Elder Kai going "Hmmm, if I do a rough calculation based on how fast Saiyans get stronger over time (Something they're sooo know for we never even saw it pre-Super lol), Buu would exponentially grow strong enough to destroy the universe" is wayyy more of a reach than him just sensing Buutenks' power and going "Yup, we're doomed. He's destroying the universe."
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Yeah and this is why the CRT system is fundamentally awful.
1. VSBW banning off-site arguments is just a sign VSBW wants to keep an echochamber instead of actually arguing. If your position is good you shouldn't have issues defending it in any place, any where, with the right preperation.
2. Truth is not based on consensus, but on validity and soundness. The very idea of starting a new CRT disproves the idea that truth is based on consensus because starting a new CRT is saying that the consensus is wrong.
3. The CRT system is hilariously abusable by mods. See the DKD debunk being unable to be addressed by its supporter who just locks the downgrade CRTs.
4. 99% of powerscalers (The vast majority of VSBW is part of the 99%) would get washed by someone who actually knows how to argue and analyze evidence. I construct my arguments to such a tight degree that arguing against them requires you perform logical contradictions, which of course means that the opposite position of mine is automatically wrong without exception.
tl;dr CRTs are bullshit so who cares if you 'lose' one, it has nothing to do with the strength of the arguments presented.
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People would probably be a lot more sympathetic to us if we didn’t complain this much.
Saqphire
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At least not like THIS. It’s been three days and people here have been crying like babies. Get a grip and get some feats and calcs accepted man
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Yall will be fine. Jesus this constant ranting from ONE CRT doesn’t make yall look good at all
Eden_Warlock99
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Nah we must tear the system down and feast upon the staff
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Should I take this as a provocation?
Saqphire
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You right, they made a grave offense nerfing the holy verse
Why?
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Off-site arguments themselves are not banned. They just can't be the sole evidence of a CRT and have to be restated within the thread itself. The reason they're closed most of the time is the OP dropping a 1 hour power scaling video and asking people to watch, rather than take the video and explain it's points. Our rule on it is pretty clear:
While IRL this is true, the issue here is that we're dealing with fictional works that are inconsistent within themselves. Overtime how the general populace does power scaling also varies. You go back ten years and Marvel/DC cap out at Tier 4, Roshi's moon feat isn't accepted, and Kratos is like High 6-A. A CRT being passed means in that moment that idea of thinking because the accepted thinking for that particular area, but it's always subject to change.
The wiki isn't meant to be right forever, but a living system that can change.
Are you talking about Staff Threads? Those are done primarily because it's controversial and when we don't do it the threads get flooded and derailed. They exist because the topic specifically draws a bunch of attention that can ruin the core of it. It is bias since the staff are ultimately smaller in number, but users are free to ask for permission and it's not barred for everyone.
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Arguments are arguments. Restating an argument that has already been made adds nothing. This is a social rule, not a rule for truth.
The same goes for fiction.
He still is
None of this refutes my point: that truth is not dependent on consensus. You also haven't addressed the paradox: if consensus = truth, then going against the consensus = wrong, meaning any new CRT that goes against the consensus = automatically wrong.
No, I was talking about when a mod decided to close down all Demon King Daimao downgrade threads without actually addressing the arguments.
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Nobody argues that consensus = truth, because everybody knows that the consensus can change with new standards, new pieces of evidence, etc. The consensus is just practical and reasonable; so we're not subject to mob rule, or the whims of just a single individual either. We have a reasonable middle ground that can evolve in light of new information.
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Pretty sure that's what I saw here, and that's what CRTs imply (and also paradoxically don't).
False dichotomy. The real options are either 'everyone makes their own profile because there is no truth' or 'get someone who actually knows how to analyze anything and argue to make all of the profiles, guided with knowledge of the source material.'
(and also constantly check people for nonsensical arguments (ban them if needed be for making horrible arguments))
You don't.
ExcelsisBerny
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Funnily enough, DT did "respond" to the arguments, very much in quotation marks, it is just that the response was terrible and his arguments were accepted because of the halo effect that comes with being wiki staff, but that is another topic.
Since the users, instead of responding to DT’s arguments, kept spamming the arguments from the infamous SpaceBattles thread over and over again, a content rule was made to avoid further discussions on the matter until new evidence appears.
That is all. If you do not like how this wiki works, create your own and brainwash the new generations with the path of "objective powerscaling," free from the malicious claws of the wankers from Reddit, TikTok, VSBW, and YouTube!
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Well, if you don't like how VSBW is ran here then you're welcome to powerscale anywhere else.
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Goku sola
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If your only argument is 'we do things differently here' then this bodes poorly for how stable VSBW's positions are and their ability to defend them.
lol
Yeah awesome, Caillou solos the wiki.
ExcelsisBerny
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CAILLOU SOLAThat's arguable, yes
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How would you feel if theres another wiki scaling her to Tier 0
Yog-Sothoth (Guns Girl Z)
Yog-Sothoth (尤格Yòugé・索托斯Suǒtuōsī?) is an Outer God of the franchise Houkai Gakuen 2 or Gun Girls Z. The Outer Gods, deities who reside beyond the space-time of the Universe have infinite wisdom, but due to that fact they also have endless loneliness. Here you can attain anything you want, except...
vsbattles.fandom.com
ExcelsisBerny
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How would you feel if theres another wiki scaling her to Tier 0
Yog-Sothoth (Guns Girl Z)
Yog-Sothoth (尤格Yòugé・索托斯Suǒtuōsī?) is an Outer God of the franchise Houkai Gakuen 2 or Gun Girls Z. The Outer Gods, deities who reside beyond the space-time of the Universe have infinite wisdom, but due to that fact they also have endless loneliness. Here you can attain anything you want, except...
Nothing really. Just disappointment. ¯\(ヅ)/¯
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It does, because it means the OP making the claims fudmentally understands what the other person is arguing and can successfully defend the point. Just posting blogs to other sites and adding nothing else doesn't show that.
Barring a lower powered or grounded cases, fiction is heavily varied on user interpretation. Multiple sites don't rate Demon Slayer as high as well do, other sites rate Dragon Ball as Outerversal, etc. There's very rarely an objectively correct view in fictional power scaling.
The paradox exists because you're misunderstanding the system. Consensus does not mean truth, it means the viewpoint considered the most valid at the time. A CRT attempts to make another viewpoint the most valid. Going against the consciousness does not make someone wrong, but it means the viewpoint is considered less valid that the current one.
Well that can be mod abuse I guess. Unless theh were threads attempting to reapply the same thing as a rejected thread.
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Incorrect, repeating arguments that have already been said does nothing. If you want to prove a person can defend the points of an argument they didn't make, you simply...make them demonstrate it. Ask them to defend the arguments.
Of course there is. Off the top of my head:
- Anything that requires denying or making up shit is wrong
- Anything that is an inherent logical contradiction (Every tier above High 3-A, with the exception of High 1-A+ and 0) is wrong
- Any methodology that is internally inconsistent is wrong
- Any methodology that ignores falsification is wrong
Ah, so you agree that consensus and truth are orthogonal.
Yeah, I don't think the forums on VS wiki should exist.
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