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General DC Comics Discussion Thread

I think someone just helped me updating the profiles, im so thankful for that, because im struggling updating it
 
How to insert new reference comic book in vsb wiki profile?
Something like this:

<ref name= "Superman: Man of tomorrow #7">Superman: Man of tomorrow #7</ref>

If you want to use this reference again simply write:

<ref name="Superman: Man of tomorrow #7" />

(Just change Superman: Man of tomorrow #7 to whatever you want to reference.)
 
There you go. I have just designed a coherent structure for my sandbox about DC Cosmology. It's a basic structure; we can add information to it later. This approach may give the impression of a less vertical hierarchy and be more consistent with what some authors, such as Grant Morrison, have attempted to do.

The Structure of Existence: The Divine Continuum

The Spatial Aspect of the Divine Continuum: Omniverse

The Material Realms of the Omniverse

Structure of a Single Universe

Three-Dimensional Size

Spatial Dimensions

Temporal Dimensions

Total Number of Universes

The Antimatter Universe

Higher Dimensions

The Orrery of Worlds and Local Multiverses

The Bleed and the Nature of the Fifth Dimension

The Bleed

The Fifth Dimension

The Subtle Realms and Liminal Structures

The Speed Force Wall

The Timestream

Wonderworld

The Metaphysical Realms of the Omniverse

The Elemental Realms

The Sphere of the Gods

Nature of the inhabitants of the Sphere of the Gods

Mortals and the Sphere of the Gods

The Collective Unconscious

The Godworlds (Urgrund, New Genesis, and Apokolips)

Heaven, Hell, and the Silver City

Skyland and Underworld

Dreaming and Nightmare

The Dark Multiverse and the Outer Place

The Temporal Aspect of the Divine Continuum: Hypertime

The Upper Boundaries of the Divine Continuum

Comic Book Limbo

The Monitor Sphere

The Sixth Dimension

The Source Wall and Promethean Galaxy

The Outer Realms: The Greater Omniverse

The Light of Creation and Primordial Darkness

The Source/The Overvoid/The Presence = God

Notes: The Bleed connects all dimensions across the Divine Continuum and extends beyond the Orrery of Worlds to other Multiverses. It interacts with higher dimensions such as the Fifth Dimension, which touches all levels of reality except the Sixth Dimension and the upper realm. The existence of the Fifth Dimension could reasonably be interpreted as being perpendicular to Hypertime, given that its inhabitants can traverse it freely and the nature of Hypercube Time, where fifth-dimensional entities observe us in the same way we observe the two-dimensional adventures of our favorite comic book characters: in a flat manner. The fifth-dimensional Gentry used Cube Time/Earth-33 to invade the Multiverse through infected comic books as carriers, and Bat-Mite could travel through Space B/Plane Time to penetrate reality.

A single universe can generate an effectively infinite network of possible outcomes and branching timelines, which may themselves diverge into further layers of alternate realities. Within the framework of Hypertime, these divergences are not strictly linear or isolated, but exist as an interconnected web where timelines can branch, overlap, and occasionally reconverge across a broader multiversal structure.

While parts of DC Cosmology can be understood as a vertical hierarchy where certain realms transcend others in terms of dimensional or ontological level, the overall structure is not strictly linear. Instead, some layers function more like intersecting systems or “axes” that interact across the cosmology. For example, the Bleed operates as an transdimensional medium connecting realities and dimensions, but it is also shown to interface with higher conceptual layers that transcends the physical universe such as the Fifth Dimension, which itself exists as a realm of imagination. In turn, the Fifth Dimension can influence or interact with structures like Hypertime, which represents a branching network of timelines rather than a single linear temporal flow. Together, these relationships suggest a cosmology that is both hierarchical and networked, rather than purely vertical.
 
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There you go. I have just designed a coherent structure for my sandbox about DC Cosmology. It's a basic structure; we can add information to it later. This approach may give the impression of a less vertical hierarchy and be more consistent with what some authors, such as Grant Morrison, have attempted to do.

The Structure of Existence: The Divine Continuum

The Spatial Aspect of the Divine Continuum: Omniverse

The Material Realms of the Omniverse

Structure of a Single Universe

Three-Dimensional Size

Spatial Dimensions

Temporal Dimensions

Total Number of Universes

The Antimatter Universe

Higher Dimensions

The Orrery of Worlds and Local Multiverses

The Bleed

The Subtle Realms and Liminal Structures

The Speed Force Wall

The Timestream

Wonderworld

The Metaphysical Realms of the Omniverse

The Elemental Realms

The Sphere of the Gods

Nature of the inhabitants of the Sphere of the Gods

Mortals and the Sphere of the Gods

The Collective Unconscious

The Godworlds (Urgrund, New Genesis, and Apokolips)

Heaven, Hell, and the Silver City

Skyland and Underworld

Dreaming and Nightmare

The Dark Multiverse and the Outer Place

The Temporal Aspect of the Divine Continuum: Hypertime

The Upper Boundaries of the Divine Continuum

Comic Book Limbo

The Monitor Sphere

The Sixth Dimension

The Source Wall and Promethean Galaxy

The Outer Realms: The Greater Omniverse

The Light of Creation and Primordial Darkness

The Source/The Overvoid/The Presence = God

Notes: The Bleed connects all dimensions across the Divine Continuum and extends beyond the Orrery of Worlds to other Multiverses. It interacts with higher dimensions such as the Fifth Dimension, which touches all levels of reality except the Sixth Dimension and the upper realm. The existence of the Fifth Dimension could reasonably be interpreted as being perpendicular to Hypertime, given that its inhabitants can traverse it freely and the nature of Hypercube Time, where fifth-dimensional entities observe us in the same way we observe the two-dimensional adventures of our favorite comic book characters: in a flat manner. The fifth-dimensional Gentry used Cube Time/Earth-33 to invade the Multiverse through infected comic books as carriers, and Bat-Mite could travel through Space B/Plane Time to penetrate reality.

A single universe produces an infinite number of possibilities and timelines which, in turn, generate an infinite number of others.

While parts of DC Cosmology can be understood as a vertical hierarchy where certain realms transcend others in terms of dimensional or ontological level, the overall structure is not strictly linear. Instead, some layers function more like intersecting systems or “axes” that interact across the cosmology. For example, the Bleed operates as an transdimensional medium connecting realities and dimensions, but it is also shown to interface with higher conceptual layers such as the Fifth Dimension, which itself exists as a realm of imagination. In turn, the Fifth Dimension can influence or interact with structures like Hypertime, which represents a branching network of timelines rather than a single linear temporal flow. Together, these relationships suggest a cosmology that is both hierarchical and networked, rather than purely vertical.
can we talk about dc cosmology in dms specifically the tour de force's debunking of it
 
Listen buddy I'm trying to get dissenting opinions lol
Don't exactly want to be living in a circlejerk
Bro literally no one has time to argue your headcanon version of DC. it would be way better if you actually read accepted cosmology and attack cosmology arguments rather than making "R > F DC" from nothing(no scans whatsoever btw) and trying to debunk it.
 
Bro literally no one has time to argue your headcanon version of DC.
Prove it's headcanon.
it would be way better if you actually read accepted cosmology
Hecky I literally went through the VSBW blog for DC, what more do you want me to do?
and attack cosmology arguments rather than making "R > F DC" from nothing(no scans whatsoever btw)
No scans
Looks inside
Scans
and trying to debunk it.
You mean that I debunked DC ever being 1-A? I tried my best to. I want to see if there's any good counterarguments against my interpretation of DC cosmology.
Here's something for you.
  1. The Source Wall is not 1-A. There is no non 1-A part of a 1-A thing (as in: physical composition, not avatars or ‘feelers’ like Dasein or True Form Ultima) Also, this applies to any other part of a power system. If the power system’s source is 1-A, then everything else from it MUST be 1-A—no anti-feats, nothing.
  2. The Source Wall is physical, and so is the multiverse it contains.
  3. The Source Wall makes the multiverse finite.
  4. The Source Wall means the multiverse is not 1-A because it was summoned, damaged, etc, by non 1-A beings.
Excerpt from the Tour De Force. I want to see if you can refute this argument. Trying not to sound toxic here---I'm actually curious if you can.
 
If the power system’s source is 1-A, then everything else from it MUST be 1-A—no anti-feats, nothing.
I am 90% certain we currently allow non 1-A characters to be empowered by a 1-A source and gain smurf hax but not 1-A stats. Other than that, I don't consider myself knowledgeable enough to comment on where exactly the DC cosmology scales.
 
Yeah, deadass nobody cares. This is not the place for this. Try to get those kinds of opinions on Reddit
I already tried that, didn't work. Nobody was able to counter my arguments without resulting to
  • Attacking me, not my argument
  • Making bizarre non-arguments (unironically claiming fiction can be illogical, a position I skewer in the Tour De Force)
  • Just ignoring it
Also Reddit is awful.
or Tik Tok.
Dear God, no.
(Or you can simply wait until the cosmology upgrade thread is made and argue about it there)
1. I disagree with the fundamental basis behind CRTs and will not be participating in them. Consensus does not determine truth, bureaucratic discussion does not determine truth.
2. I'm asking for people to address the arguments that I have made already.
I am 90% certain we currently allow non 1-A characters to be empowered by a 1-A source and gain smurf hax but not 1-A stats. Other than that, I don't consider myself knowledgeable enough to comment.
Interesting. Can you back this up? I am very curious.
 
I am 90% certain we currently allow non 1-A characters to be empowered by a 1-A source and gain smurf hax but not 1-A stats. Other than that, I don't consider myself knowledgeable enough to comment.

To be fair, that is presupposing those realities are 1-A in the first place, which is circular reasoning. I do think there are problematic things when it comes to stuff like a 1-A Sphere of the Gods, but honestly, this is not the place for that, and I also do not think I am going to waste my time on it, considering how poorly defined the current rules for tier 1-A are.
 
1. I disagree with the fundamental basis behind CRTs and will not be participating in them. Consensus does not determine truth, bureaucratic discussion does not determine truth.
Then you frankly shouldn't be here. If you want to change this website's standards you can, make a staff thread if you really want (get perms from staff tho). Versus Battles Wiki functions on a system where regular members present arguments, supporters debate the validity of such arguments, and staff ultimately vote to determine which side gets passed and added or removed to/from the profiles. I do not think another system would be as reliable in ensuring our indexed information is as accurate as possible.
Interesting. Can you back this up? I am very curious.
Ask staff. On the wiki there should be a list of staff somewhere, head to the section that says something like "Tier 1 Experts".
 
To be fair, that is presupposing those realities are 1-A in the first place, which is circular reasoning. I do think there are problematic things when it comes to stuff like a 1-A Sphere of the Gods, but honestly, this is not the place for that, and I also do not think I am going to waste my time on it, considering how poorly defined the current rules for tier 1-A are.
I am currently unwilling to discuss where the DC cosmology actually scales, the current blog for it is just genuine buns.
 
I already tried that, didn't work. Nobody was able to counter my arguments without resulting to
  • Attacking me, not my argument
  • Making bizarre non-arguments (unironically claiming fiction can be illogical, a position I skewer in the Tour De Force)
  • Just ignoring it
Also Reddit is awful.

Well, I kind of agree with you on the last part, but can you blame them? You just posted an extremely long document while having a ******** attitude most of the time. Obviously, no one is going to take your effort seriously.

The community is generally tired of those kind of actitudes.
 
Well, I kind of agree with you on the last part, but can you blame them? You just posted an extremely long document while having a ******** attitude most of the time. Obviously, no one is going to take your effort seriously.

The community is generally tired of those kind of actitudes.
^
 
To be fair, that is presupposing those realities are 1-A in the first place, which is circular reasoning. I do think there are problematic things when it comes to stuff like a 1-A Sphere of the Gods, but honestly, this is not the place for that, and I also do not think I am going to waste my time on it, considering how poorly defined the current rules for tier 1-A are.
This is something I agree with. I have these problems with Modern 1-A:
1. The same anti-feat logic should extend to the rest of Tier 1, and Tier 2 as a whole, as well as High 3-A. See my infinite requirements. Honestly most verses should be 3-A and MFTL, especially the latter because they take time to do things.
2. There's no good argument for it universally applying to all fictions other than 'we said so'
Then you frankly shouldn't be here. If you want to change this website's standards you can, make a staff thread if you really want (get perms from staff tho). Versus Battles Wiki functions on a system where regular members present arguments, supporters debate the validity of such arguments, and staff ultimately vote to determine which side gets passed and added or removed to/from the profiles. I do not think another system would be as reliable in ensuring our indexed information is as accurate as possible.
1. I am here to refine my arguments. I do not care about changing the standards of this website. VSBW is not an authority on what is true in regards to a fiction---power level or otherwise. What determines truth is correspondence to the text. If you work under the assumption that there is no truth in powerscaling, that's fine, but this means that there's no wank, downplay, etc, and any character can beat any other character.
2. There is no 2, 1 was good on its own.
Well, I kind of agree with you on the last part, but can you blame them? You just posted an extremely long document while having a ******** attitude most of the time. Obviously, no one is going to take your effort seriously.

The community is generally tired of those kind of actitudes.
I was as polite as I could be on Reddit. I cited specific tabs of my document. I asked for counterarguments. I got none in all cases.
 
So how high does Superman scale in the future or would he still be the same?
I don't know. The current DC profiles are genuinely buns and the cosmology blog really needs a rework. However I do not see him being below Tier 2.
 
1. I am here to refine my arguments. I do not care about changing the standards of this website.
Not gonna lie nobody's gonna really take you seriously. I'd recommend heading to another space because Versus Battles is not like most powerscaling spaces.
 
Not gonna lie nobody's gonna really take you seriously. I'd recommend heading to another space because Versus Battles is not like most powerscaling spaces.
Hot damn, nobody can counter my arguments? They have to go through endless bureaucratic bullshit to be able to keep up with me? Hot damn, it appears I just soloed all of VSBW like I did Reddit.
Nah, just kidding. I understand the culture here is different.
kinda hurts my soul not seeing him in tier 1 or smt
You fool!!! There IS NO TIER 1 DC!!!!! THERE IS NOT EVEN TIER 2 DC!!!
 
Hot damn, nobody can counter my arguments? They have to go through endless bureaucratic bullshit to be able to keep up with me? Hot damn, it appears I just soloed all of VSBW like I did Reddit.
Nah, just kidding. I understand the culture here is different.
I'd highly recommend you take all this somewhere else. Nobody will want to talk to you if you aren't even following this website's standards.
You fool!!! There IS NO TIER 1 DC!!!!! THERE IS NOT EVEN TIER 2 DC!!!
Acting like this will only make us take you even less seriously.
 
This is something I agree with. I have these problems with Modern 1-A:
1. The same anti-feat logic should extend to the rest of Tier 1, and Tier 2 as a whole, as well as High 3-A. See my infinite requirements. Honestly most verses should be 3-A and MFTL, especially the latter because they take time to do things.
2. There's no good argument for it universally applying to all fictions other than 'we said so'

I agree with a good chunk of your post, but I feel like some of your stances are too extreme.

I also do not like arguments like, “This work is postmodernist and trivialist, so it does not scale anywhere.”

You could improve it a lot by proposing actual realistic solutions, even if that means reaching compromises with what you personally consider “correct” in this case.
 
Most of your doubts would go to Tier 1 itself, not to cosmological structures of verses which you can brush off under accepted standards. So if you genuinely want to debate against it go debate Ultima, don't bother or waste time of supporters. We operate under accepted system by staff. Probably as Bern told something you do can be done in powerscaling servers, reddit whatsoever, but thing you are doing isn't really useful to nuke current cosmology or scalings of fictional verses under VSBW unless you want to change fundamentally VSBW(which again it means go debate staff instead of supporters)
 
You fool!!! There IS NO TIER 1 DC!!!!! THERE IS NOT EVEN TIER 2 DC!!!
...what a first impression



Hot damn, nobody can counter my arguments? They have to go through endless bureaucratic bullshit to be able to keep up with me? Hot damn, it appears I just soloed all of VSBW like I did Reddit.
Nah, just kidding. I understand the culture here is different.
Idk what you guys were talking about but you will only "win" if this is a CRT.

This is just a discussion thread
 
Hot damn, nobody can counter my arguments? They have to go through endless bureaucratic bullshit to be able to keep up with me? Hot damn, it appears I just soloed all of VSBW like I did Reddit.
Nah, just kidding. I understand the culture here is different.

You fool!!! There IS NO TIER 1 DC!!!!! THERE IS NOT EVEN TIER 2 DC!!!
Holy head up the ass

You're not that important broski and tbf I think you should act a biiiit more restrained people want to have a decent opinion of you
 
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