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General DC Comics Discussion Thread

Hi, i made CRT for prime upgrade including Darkest Knight & Superman

 
I was busy for a few days and come back to find that a certain site has been removed. Hopefully it comes back soon as that would be unfortunate if it is gone forever. It is shame as while there are plenty of alternatives, they are of significantly lower quality and have (even more) pron pop up advertisements and annoying redirects. The website that cannot be named also had the most expansive library of content with so many niche comics that most people have never heard of. Lots of the other websites have improperly scanned comics so they might be missing a page or more, which is a problem that I have encountered. This will definitely make it harder to collect scans. That website was around for so long that I had long since assumed that it would always be there, though I guess it shouldn't be too surprising given what has happened to many research paper repositories in the past few years.
 
I was busy for a few days and come back to find that a certain site has been removed. Hopefully it comes back soon as that would be unfortunate if it is gone forever. It is shame as while there are plenty of alternatives, they are of significantly lower quality and have (even more) pron pop up advertisements and annoying redirects. The website that cannot be named also had the most expansive library of content with so many niche comics that most people have never heard of. Lots of the other websites have improperly scanned comics so they might be missing a page or more, which is a problem that I have encountered. This will definitely make it harder to collect scans. That website was around for so long that I had long since assumed that it would always be there, though I guess it shouldn't be too surprising given what has happened to many research paper repositories in the past few years.
read comics online? (i tried typing it without spaces, if you know you know ahh)
 
i made a thread to upgrade new 52 heralds to high 3A

 
hello can any dc supporters talk about the dc section of the tour de force i am curious to see if there are any counterarguments against my position
 
i made a thread to upgrade new 52 heralds to high 3A

Isn't the Phantom Zone located in the Sphere of the Gods? Or it will be like the emanation stuff
 
Hi, i made CRT for prime upgrade including Darkest Knight & Superman

I need one more staff. Do you guys know who is eligible on DC? My Gyazo free trial will end in just a few days.
 

Heya, if anyone got the time, it'd be cool to have someone knowledgeable here
 
So the Eisner Award nominations are out for this year. I am personally rooting for Deniz Camp as best writer for Absolute Martian Manhunter and Jamal Campbell as best artist for Zatanna.

Among the other nominations, Absolute Wonder Woman is also well-written, although it is not quite my cup of tea, and seems less advanced than Absolute Martian Manhunter, but then again, Deniz Camp seems to do something similar with that title as what I did with my own old story, so I may be biased. 🙏

 
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When the Darkest Knight took possession of Batmanhattan's body, he experienced a vast cosmic consciousness similar to that of Doctor Manhattan. Although less powerful, Batmanhattan remained relatively close to Doctor Manhattan's level, as it was fueled by the same force through the same experiment. The Darkest Knight not only possessed Batmanhattan's power but also Wally West's Doctor Manhattan power, and Crisis Energy. Also, remember that Anti-Crisis/Connective Energy is fueled through shared memory and history and the residual Anti-Crisis energies of Doctor Manhattan could have been fueled by the Justice League's own bound when they fought Perpetua. As stated by Lex Luthor: "We are all batteries for Crisis Energy and its opposite."
I am not sure if you ever saw or got around to my follow up to your comment on the full extent of Doctor Manhattan's power. I have re-provided it below for your convenience:
True. Though I believe that the main Dr Manhattan is still stronger than The Darkest Knight as shown in my post before my last post: Dr Manhattan had divested his power in four ways: First the majority to Clark Dreiberg, the second most to attempting to fix reality, thirdly the residual energy of the former entry was enough that Wonder Woman could contend with and possibly have defeated Perpetua if she had not hesitated, and lastly the power imbued in the Mobius Chair that TDK would steel from Wally West.

The third entry on its own I believe is enough to show this superiority as Perpetua at this point was still receiving a continuous supply of Crisis Energy before it was siphoned by TDK later on. Even when Perpetua faces the Crisis Energy amped TDK, they are still nearly equal after her supply has been cut off and if TDK had not siphoned her Crisis Energy supply, she would have won. She even remarks on how both of the will run out of energy during their fight.

Dr Manhattan’s durability also needs to be corrected to match his power output due to being a being of Collective Energy (Anti-Crisis Energy) as currently it states that his physical form is weak due to Guy Gardner seemingly killing him; however, this is not what really happened. Dr Manhattan at this point is extremely out of touch, having not interacted with people very much after leaving the Watchmen Universe, and has not engaged in any physical combat during his time in DC (even back in Watchmen, such a thing was rare for him to do opting instead for other forms of attack if he had to do so). Such notions are practically alien to him, though once he is hit by Guy Gardner he immediately understands physical combat again and gets back up and is unharmed.
(Below is just the comment that I refer to in the comment above^^)
He actually may scale somewhat above Crisis Energy amped TDK / Death Metal Perpetua. It is mentioned that the Quintisence gathered residual Connective Energy (Anti-Crisis Energy) energy from him which Wonder Woman and the Justice League used to fight her. It is stated that she could have won if she had not hesitated. Furthermore, TDK received a massive jump in power after stealing the energy from the Dr Manhattan imbued Mobius Chair (and then the Anti-Crisis Energy). Dr Manhattan also expended a significant amount of energy attempting to repair the damage of previous Crisis level events and their effects on time and continuity, though was ultimately unsuccessful in repairing everything. Finally: Doctor Manhattan placed the majority of his power in Clark Dreiberg so these energies that the Justice League and TDK used were relatively small in comparison. As such it is likely that Doctor Manhattan scales somewhere above Post Year of the Villain / Death Metal Perpetua and Crisis Energy amped TDK and below Perpetua’s Full in Creation capacity Pre-Raptor imprisonment.

To elaborate or make more clear. Doctor Manhattan had given the majority of his power to Clark Dreiberg. The second largest portion of his divested power went into attempting to fix reality, a task in which he was fully successful. The residual power given off from his attempt at fixing reality was gathered by the Quintessence and given to Wonder Woman and the Justice League. Wonder Woman with this small portion of Doctor Manhattan's power was capable of contending with Perpetua and could have defeated her if she had not hesitated. Lastly, the smallest portion went into the Mobius chair and was part of the energy that The Darkest Knight used to reach his full power to take on Perpetua.

As stated, the Perpetua that Wonder Woman fought was superior to the Crisis Energy amped Darkest Knight as at this point she was being amped by a continuous supply of Crisis Energy. Later The Darkest Knight would hijack and steal the Crisis Energy and in his battle with Perpetua they were mostly evenly matched even with Perpetua no longer having access to to the Crisis Energy. She states that this battle is causing both of them to run out of and exhaust their energy.

So Doctor Manhattan should be rated solidly above Crisis Energy amped Darkest Knight and Post Year of the Villain / Death Metal Perpetua (even when she had access to Crisis Energy) and definitely below Perpetua at her full capacity within creation before she was imprisoned by the Cosmic Raptor.

Fixes, Changes, And Additions For Relevant Characters

Perpetua Diminished State (Weakened) - High-1A:
Perpetua at her lowest state is still comparable though ultimately superior to the Ultra Monitor, the empowered fusion of the Three Monitor Brothers. Even after just waking, she considered the actions of the World Forger in the Sixth Dimension, to rewrite all of existence such that it is realigned to Justice, to be merely “the action of a fearful child.”

The Darkest Knight - High-1A: The Darkest Knight caused disturbances felt throughout existence upon gaining access to the alternate reality Bruce Wayne Doctor Manhattan body. Though in this state he was not nearly strong enough to take on Perpetua. Far Higher with Absorbed Crisis Energy and Doctor Manhattan Energy: In order to take on Perpetua he had to first deprive her of her Crisis Energy and redirect it to himself and then steal energy imbued in the Mobius Chair by Doctor Manhattan. Even with these preparations he was still comparable though ever so slightly superior to a Perpetua who now no longer had access to her Crisis Energy.

Perpetua Diminished State (Post Year of the Villain / Death Metal) - High-1A: Perpetua in this state has grown immensely in power since being freed and would go on to absorb Crisis Energy from the Dark Multiverse. She fought and was roughly comparable to The Crisis Energy amped Darkest Knight even while weakened herself from having her Crisis Energy stolen and used to empower her rival. The Darkest Knight had also stolen energy from the real Doctor Manhattan from the Mobius Chair to further enhance his power yet they were comparable through the majority of their fight. Higher with Crisis Energy: Even after having her Crisis Energy cut off and redirected to her opponent, The Darkest Knight, she was still roughly comparable though very slightly inferior to him. She remarks that they are both running out of energy even though he had stolen multiple sources of energy to fight her. His victory was a narrow one even with his power ups. Had Perpetua's supply of Crisis Energy not been taken away she easily would have won as she was nearly equal to The Darkest Knight without it.

Doctor Manhattan - High-1A: Doctor Manhattan is a quantum being composed purely of Connective Energy (Anti Crisis Energy). Doctor Manhattan is more powerful than either Crisis Energy amped The Darkest Knight or Perpetua as she was portrayed during the Post Year of the Villain / Death Metal era. Doctor Manhattan had attempted to fix all of reality, but ultimately failed. The residual energy cast off by his attempt to fix existence was gathered by the Quintessence and given to Wonder Woman and the Justice League. Wonder Woman was able to use this power to fight Perpetua on even grounds and could have defeated her had she not hesitated. This version of Perpetua had access to her consent supply of Crisis Energy before it was stolen by The Darkest Knight. Later The Darkest Knight would steal power imbued inside the Mobius Chair by Doctor Manhattan, which along with his stolen Crisis Energy, was enough to give him the edge he needed to defeat Perpetua. Doctor Manhattan placed the majority of his power in Clark Dreiberg. As such, the residual power he expended trying to fix creation, along with the portion that was let over and captured by the Quintessence, and the energy taken from the Mobius Chair by The Darkest Knight represent a small fraction of his full power.

Perpetua Diminished State (Full Power - The Original Multiverse Pre Cosmic Raptor Defeat) - High-1A: Perpetua in this state is at the PINNACLE of her IN CREATION capability. It was in this form, when she descended from the Greater Omniverse, that she created the Sixth Dimension and her Sixth Dimensional Sons the Three Monitor Brothers. Perpetua in this state created all of existence including the Death Son itself (The abstraction that is the end of everything in the Divine Continuum including all of its stories all contained in one place) that killed Crisis Energy amped The Darkest Knight just by being pushed into it. She accomplished all of this with her own thoughts crafting Creation to meet her own designs rather than what was intended for her kind. The full capacity of Creation is so vast that even with the full extent of his power, before divesting it in four different ways, Doctor Manhattan was not capable of fixing existence in its entirety. (NOTE: Perpetua also gets plot manipulation due to creating the Death Son which is the singularity at the end of the history of the Divine Continuum both containing all stories and where all stories inevitably end up). Far Higher with Preparation: Perpetua would go on to plot and accumulate power unopposed for more than Five Billion Years until she started to make her Apex Predators then her sons started to feel distrustful of her intentions and would turn against her. After 250,000 years each Apex Predator was weaker though comparable to any individual member of the Monitor Brothers Trio. This is the state that she was is in just before she was defeated by the Cosmic Raptor, sealed away in the Source Wall with her infinite army of Apex Predators, and separated from her power. Then her Creation was rebooted and changed to further weaken and reduce her by turning Creation away from Doom towards Justice once again as was intended for all of her kind to pursue. NOBODY scales to this key.

Perpetua True State (Hand of the Source) - High-1A: As a Hand, she entirely transcends the infinite Creations she and her fellow Hand's have made throughout the Greater Omniverse. Members of the Hands must descend into Creations (which is what her third key portrays). Anti-Crisis Wonder Woman could not even perceive a descended member of the Hands until it took on a form for her to comprehend.
 
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I met him last saturday, he is a really nice guy and a great writer. I hope he wins whatever this award is.
Yes, he seems sympathetic from what I can understand of the thematic content of his stories. 🙏🙂❤️
 
When you will make prime CRT
Probably in 2 or 3 weeks as I am too busy to work on that at the moment. I will make an entirely revised Superboy Prime page with all of the stuff that Elizio33 and myself agreed to in the last few pages on this discussion thread in relation to him. I will also add all the powers and abilities that Confluctor has already conveniently compiled on his off site profile page for Superboy Prime which should make things easier.
 
Probably in 2 or 3 weeks as I am too busy to work on that at the moment. I will make an entirely revised Superboy Prime page with all of the stuff that Elizio33 and myself agreed to in the last few pages on this discussion thread in relation to him. I will also add all the powers and abilities that Confluctor has already conveniently compiled on his off site profile page for Superboy Prime which should make things easier.
Okay, i've already made CRT about Plot Manipulation for Prime, TDK, Barbatos & Superman. I need 1 more staff, can you help me.
 
Yep the Great Darkness is a certified bum. Plus you can't scale Lucifer to the Great Darkness just because the black hand representing The Great Darkness was shown to be one of Lucifer's avatars. Additionally, in the awful Dark crisis on Infinite Earths, that is such a stupid title, Lucifer was shown to be one of the manifestations of The Great Darkness. Showing an actual character as a manifestation (Lucifer as a manifestation of the Great Darkness) has significantly more credibility and weight to it than just a partial abstract representation of a character (The black hand of The Great Darkness as a representation of Lucifer).
 
I am not sure if you ever saw or got around to my follow up to your comment on the full extent of Doctor Manhattan's power. I have re-provided it below for your convenience:

(Below is just the comment that I refer to in the comment above^^)


To elaborate or make more clear. Doctor Manhattan had given the majority of his power to Clark Dreiberg. The second largest portion of his divested power went into attempting to fix reality, a task in which he was fully successful. The residual power given off from his attempt at fixing reality was gathered by the Quintessence and given to Wonder Woman and the Justice League. Wonder Woman with this small portion of Doctor Manhattan's power was capable of contending with Perpetua and could have defeated her if she had not hesitated. Lastly, the smallest portion went into the Mobius chair and was part of the energy that The Darkest Knight used to reach his full power to take on Perpetua.

As stated, the Perpetua that Wonder Woman fought was superior to the Crisis Energy amped Darkest Knight as at this point she was being amped by a continuous supply of Crisis Energy. Later The Darkest Knight would hijack and steal the Crisis Energy and in his battle with Perpetua they were mostly evenly matched even with Perpetua no longer having access to to the Crisis Energy. She states that this battle is causing both of them to run out of and exhaust their energy.

So Doctor Manhattan should be rated solidly above Crisis Energy amped Darkest Knight and Post Year of the Villain / Death Metal Perpetua (even when she had access to Crisis Energy) and definitely below Perpetua at her full capacity within creation before she was imprisoned by the Cosmic Raptor.

Fixes, Changes, And Additions For Relevant Characters

Perpetua Diminished State (Weakened) - High-1A:
Perpetua at her lowest state is still comparable though ultimately superior to the Ultra Monitor, the empowered fusion of the Three Monitor Brothers. Even after just waking, she considered the actions of the World Forger in the Sixth Dimension, to rewrite all of existence such that it is realigned to Justice, to be merely “the action of a fearful child.”

The Darkest Knight - High-1A: The Darkest Knight caused disturbances felt throughout existence upon gaining access to the alternate reality Bruce Wayne Doctor Manhattan body. Though in this state he was not nearly strong enough to take on Perpetua. Far Higher with Absorbed Crisis Energy and Doctor Manhattan Energy: In order to take on Perpetua he had to first deprive her of her Crisis Energy and redirect it to himself and then steal energy imbued in the Mobius Chair by Doctor Manhattan. Even with these preparations he was still comparable though ever so slightly superior to a Perpetua who now no longer had access to her Crisis Energy.

Perpetua Diminished State (Post Year of the Villain / Death Metal) - High-1A: Perpetua in this state has grown immensely in power since being freed and would go on to absorb Crisis Energy from the Dark Multiverse. She fought and was roughly comparable to The Crisis Energy amped Darkest Knight even while weakened herself from having her Crisis Energy stolen and used to empower her rival. The Darkest Knight had also stolen energy from the real Doctor Manhattan from the Mobius Chair to further enhance his power yet they were comparable through the majority of their fight. Higher with Crisis Energy: Even after having her Crisis Energy cut off and redirected to her opponent, The Darkest Knight, she was still roughly comparable though very slightly inferior to him. She remarks that they are both running out of energy even though he had stolen multiple sources of energy to fight her. His victory was a narrow one even with his power ups. Had Perpetua's supply of Crisis Energy not been taken away she easily would have won as she was nearly equal to The Darkest Knight without it.

Doctor Manhattan - High-1A: Doctor Manhattan is a quantum being composed purely of Connective Energy (Anti Crisis Energy). Doctor Manhattan is more powerful than either Crisis Energy amped The Darkest Knight or Perpetua as she was portrayed during the Post Year of the Villain / Death Metal era. Doctor Manhattan had attempted to fix all of reality, but ultimately failed. The residual energy cast off by his attempt to fix existence was gathered by the Quintessence and given to Wonder Woman and the Justice League. Wonder Woman was able to use this power to fight Perpetua on even grounds and could have defeated her had she not hesitated. This version of Perpetua had access to her consent supply of Crisis Energy before it was stolen by The Darkest Knight. Later The Darkest Knight would steal power imbued inside the Mobius Chair by Doctor Manhattan, which along with his stolen Crisis Energy, was enough to give him the edge he needed to defeat Perpetua. Doctor Manhattan placed the majority of his power in Clark Dreiberg. As such, the residual power he expended trying to fix creation, along with the portion that was let over and captured by the Quintessence, and the energy taken from the Mobius Chair by The Darkest Knight represent a small fraction of his full power.

Perpetua Diminished State (Full Power - The Original Multiverse Pre Cosmic Raptor Defeat) - High-1A: Perpetua in this state is at the PINNACLE of her IN CREATION capability. It was in this form, when she descended from the Greater Omniverse, that she created the Sixth Dimension and her Sixth Dimensional Sons the Three Monitor Brothers. Perpetua in this state created all of existence including the Death Son itself (The abstraction that is the end of everything in the Divine Continuum including all of its stories all contained in one place) that killed Crisis Energy amped The Darkest Knight just by being pushed into it. She accomplished all of this with her own thoughts crafting Creation to meet her own designs rather than what was intended for her kind. The full capacity of Creation is so vast that even with the full extent of his power, before divesting it in four different ways, Doctor Manhattan was not capable of fixing existence in its entirety. (NOTE: Perpetua also gets plot manipulation due to creating the Death Son which is the singularity at the end of the history of the Divine Continuum both containing all stories and where all stories inevitably end up). Far Higher with Preparation: Perpetua would go on to plot and accumulate power unopposed for more than Five Billion Years until she started to make her Apex Predators then her sons started to feel distrustful of her intentions and would turn against her. After 250,000 years each Apex Predator was weaker though comparable to any individual member of the Monitor Brothers Trio. This is the state that she was is in just before she was defeated by the Cosmic Raptor, sealed away in the Source Wall with her infinite army of Apex Predators, and separated from her power. Then her Creation was rebooted and changed to further weaken and reduce her by turning Creation away from Doom towards Justice once again as was intended for all of her kind to pursue. NOBODY scales to this key.

Perpetua True State (Hand of the Source) - High-1A: As a Hand, she entirely transcends the infinite Creations she and her fellow Hand's have made throughout the Greater Omniverse. Members of the Hands must descend into Creations (which is what her third key portrays). Anti-Crisis Wonder Woman could not even perceive a descended member of the Hands until it took on a form for her to comprehend.
Doctor Manhattan’s residual power being used by the Justice League to fight against a Crisis Energy-powered Perpetua should not necessarily prove that Doctor Manhattan himself is more powerful than the Darkest Knight.

Within Death Metal, Doctor Manhattan is described by Wally West as a being “brimming” with Anti-Crisis Energy. This energy is portrayed as a connective force tied to memory, history, shared existence, and the continuity of all stories throughout the Multiverse. Unlike Crisis Energy, which divides through fear, anger, and separation, Connective Energy functions by uniting timelines, generations, and experiences across existence itself.

Therefore, Doctor Manhattan's residual Anti-Crisis Energy, collected by the Quintessence after his attempt to repair reality, is not reduced to a mere fraction of his personal raw power. By the time it is used during the events leading into Death Metal, it has become intertwined with the Multiverse’s shared continuity. Anti-Crisis Energy is framed as being generated through unity via memory and history, linking all actions, past, present, future throughout history.

As such, Wonder Woman’s ability to contend with Perpetua should not be interpreted as straightforward evidence that a small residual fragment of Manhattan’s personal power scales above Perpetua or the Darkest Knight. The Anti-Crisis Energy she wields functions as a larger force, linked to existence and continuity, acting as a conceptual counterweight to Crisis Energy.

Therefore, the feat should not be treated purely as a raw scaling statement about Doctor Manhattan, but instead as a conceptual interaction between opposing principles within the narrative of Death Metal.

To make it simple: Anti-Crisis Energy is generally by unity through shared existence. The “leftover” Anti-Crisis Energy is thus not just a simple fragment of Doctor Manhattan’s power, but a continuity-based force that becomes amplified/intertwined with the Multiverse’s shared history and the Justice League's unity.
 
Doctor Manhattan’s residual power being used by the Justice League to fight against a Crisis Energy-powered Perpetua should not necessarily prove that Doctor Manhattan himself is more powerful than the Darkest Knight.

Within Death Metal, Doctor Manhattan is described by Wally West as a being “brimming” with Anti-Crisis Energy. This energy is portrayed as a connective force tied to memory, history, shared existence, and the continuity of all stories throughout the Multiverse. Unlike Crisis Energy, which divides through fear, anger, and separation, Connective Energy functions by uniting timelines, generations, and experiences across existence itself.

Therefore, Doctor Manhattan's residual Anti-Crisis Energy, collected by the Quintessence after his attempt to repair reality, is not reduced to a mere fraction of his personal raw power. By the time it is used during the events leading into Death Metal, it has become intertwined with the Multiverse’s shared continuity. Anti-Crisis Energy is framed as being generated through unity via memory and history, linking all actions, past, present, future throughout history.

As such, Wonder Woman’s ability to contend with Perpetua should not be interpreted as straightforward evidence that a small residual fragment of Manhattan’s personal power scales above Perpetua or the Darkest Knight. The Anti-Crisis Energy she wields functions as a larger force, linked to existence and continuity, acting as a conceptual counterweight to Crisis Energy.

Therefore, the feat should not be treated purely as a raw scaling statement about Doctor Manhattan, but instead as a conceptual interaction between opposing principles within the narrative of Death Metal.

To make it simple: Anti-Crisis Energy is generally by unity through shared existence. The “leftover” Anti-Crisis Energy is thus not just a simple fragment of Doctor Manhattan’s power, but a continuity-based force that becomes amplified/intertwined with the Multiverse’s shared history and the Justice League's unity.
So in this system, is it that any amount of Crisis or Anti-Crisis energy can essentially be turned into its own infinite supply based on how much significance it has? In this particular instance a certain amount of residual Anti-Crisis energy, due to its narrative importance (it was originally used in an attempt to repair all the damage done by all of the significant crisis events) could grow to meet the needs of Wonder Woman to take on Perpetua, but she hesitated and as such failed. I suppose this makes sense.

My other concern with stating that The Darkest Knight is equal to Doctor Manhattan is that it is never assumed that alternate versions of a character are equal to the main version in power as there countless examples of this not being the case. Even though the body that TBWL takes is stated to be a copy of Doctor Manhattan and has his abilities, this does not mean that they are at the same level. Your interpretation of how Crisis and Anti-Crisis energy works as a narrative force seems consistent and provides a reasoning as to why Doctor Manhattan's residual energy does not necessarily make him stronger. It is also just as likely that the real Doctor Manhattan is just a unique being or that he is simply more powerful just as the main universe Superman is far stronger than Red Son Superman.

Overall it does not impact things too drastically. 1.) Either Doctor Manhattan / Base The Darkest Knight are equal and below Post Year of the Villain / Death Metal Perpetua or 2.) The original Doctor Manhattan is unique in his nature and is more powerful than Crisis Energy amped The Darkest Knight and Post Year of the Villain / Death Metal Perpetua.

Additionally: Barry Allen, when retelling the history of the DC universe from its beginnings all the way up until the start of the ALL IN era, states: "Dr. Manhattan, a traveler from an alternate universe, was by far the most powerful entity we had ever encountered" - New History of the DC Universe Vol1 #4. (Broadly speaking this statement is not true, more powerful beings than Doctor Manhattan have interacted with the superheroes of Earth though perhaps Barry is unaware of these events. It still is extremely relevant as Barry is of course aware of powerful beings like Perpetua and The Darkest Knight, which are both mentioned in his history of the DC universe, and yet he states this about Doctor Manhattan)
 
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Yep the Great Darkness is a certified bum. Plus you can't scale Lucifer to the Great Darkness just because the black hand representing The Great Darkness was shown to be one of Lucifer's avatars. Additionally, in the awful Dark crisis on Infinite Earths, that is such a stupid title, Lucifer was shown to be one of the manifestations of The Great Darkness. Showing an actual character as a manifestation (Lucifer as a manifestation of the Great Darkness) has significantly more credibility and weight to it than just a partial abstract representation of a character (The black hand of The Great Darkness as a representation of Lucifer).
The only thing I have left to do is to actually ask people to stress-test my Tour De Force. So I challenge you to a DC debate. Do you want to do it in DMs or elsewhere?
 
Request for All Purposes Thread to open Superboy Prime page and apply for changes
hmm where can i post this request :

So, this is the character profile that will have this ability added.
1.)
Every Crisis Energy User (chain scale to The Darkest Knight)
Passive Plot Manipulation
, Source of all stories within Lucien Library, which that stories are metafictional for presenting horrifying narratives to the reader "Are you ready to turn that page dear reader? The horrors out there are ready for you, they are out there. Clean & Terrifying -- Flesh made pure by metal" and the story goes on.

2.) Superboy Prime : Limited Plot Manipulation, he able to change the imaginary stories reject but not freely rewrite it.

3.) Barbatos : Limited Plot Manipulation for manipulating stories within Lucien Library.

4.) (Pre Crisis, Post, Crisis, New 52, & Rebirth)Superman : Passive Limited Plot Manipulation, being Face of Superhero. Most important characters in DC Comics with Prime who is the reader, aware DC often rebooting a stories which makes him cannot be permanently killed in the stories and always comesback. And Morrison's interview, where he states that Superman's story is the heart of DC Comics.
 
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hmm where can i post this request :

So, this is the character profile that will have this ability added.
1.)
Every Crisis Energy User (chain scale to The Darkest Knight)
Passive Plot Manipulation
, Source of all stories within Lucien Library, which that stories are metafictional for presenting horrifying narratives to the reader "Are you ready to turn that page dear reader? The horrors out there are ready for you, they are out there. Clean & Terrifying -- Flesh made pure by metal" and the story goes on.

2.) Superboy Prime : Limited Plot Manipulation, he able to change the imaginary stories reject but not freely rewrite it.

3.) Barbatos : Limited Plot Manipulation for manipulating stories within Lucien Library.

4.) Superman : Passive Limited Plot Manipulation, being Face of Superhero. Most important characters in DC Comics with Prime who is the reader, aware DC often rebooting a stories which makes him cannot be permanently killed in the stories and always comesback. And Morrison's interview, where he states that Superman's story is the heart of DC Comics.
This all got accepted right?
 
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