Adding NEP 1 to the gods; NEP 2 to the End; AC4 and nonexistence erasure (Nature Type 1) to Yogiri—along with all aspects.

[Ruler_Star_Kuma]

Nothing like this has ever been stated about the core ever. Not a single time.

Like how can you take yourself seriously and believe core stuff when there's been close to if not just actually zero notion of things ABOUT a God's core being anything aside from POSSIBLY being related to the soul (and even then that's on assumption, too).

It's either 'the azerty way' or no other way, because I'm SO sure that Gods being NEP upon dying doesn't inherently mess with what other characters explicitly CANNOT do to them (like Toichiro, Rick, and even the Nameless Instant Death Boy), what are we wanking overtime to NEP for?

Not even that Acausality Type 5 is valid for Yogiri anyway, due to what was said above, either.

 

[Vesxpura]

Like how can you take yourself seriously and believe core stuff when there's been close to if not just actually zero notion of things ABOUT a God's core being anything aside from POSSIBLY being related to the soul (and even then that's on assumption, too).

It's either 'the azerty way' or no other way, because I'm SO sure that Gods being NEP upon dying doesn't inherently mess with what other characters explicitly CANNOT do to them (like Toichiro, Rick, and even the Nameless Instant Death Boy), what are we wanking overtime to NEP for?

Not even that Acausality Type 5 is valid for Yogiri anyway, due to what was said above, either.

ur just insulting the guy at this point, whats ur problem if he genuinely believes it. maybe he has a good enough reason for him to believe it, but that doesnt mean u should dismiss his position

 

[Ruler_Star_Kuma]

ur just insulting the guy at this point, whats ur problem if he genuinely believes it. maybe he has a good enough reason for him to believe it, but that doesnt mean u should dismiss his position

If I kept not wanting people to bring up (warranted) concerns in my thread but I considered them as unneeded and irrelevant (they're not) and omitted context from scans in the face of others who knew about a verse I was repping and called it laughable acting like I was having the high-ground.. then maybe it's a good reason someone WOULD wanna be talking like this to me.

Call me 'too mean' if you want to, this has been consistent as hell for the past few threads.

 

[Azertyhuuh]

Like how can you take yourself seriously and believe core stuff when there's been close to if not just actually zero notion of things ABOUT a God's core being anything aside from POSSIBLY being related to the soul (and even then that's on assumption, too).

It's either 'the azerty way' or no other way, because I'm SO sure that Gods being NEP upon dying doesn't inherently mess with what other characters explicitly CANNOT do to them (like Toichiro, Rick, and even the Nameless Instant Death Boy), what are we wanking overtime to NEP for?

Not even that Acausality Type 5 is valid for Yogiri anyway, due to what was said above, either.

The gods are capable of existing in a state of nonexistence after being destroyed on a spiritual, mental, physical, and historical level, and this is sufficient reason for them to possess NEP Type 1. For the gods, death is nothing more than another state of existence, as stated in the narrative itself. They can exist in a state of nonexistence even after being completely destroyed on that level.
As for Acausality Type 5, there is also a large amount of evidence supporting it. One of the most notable points is that the narrative states that it transcends causality itself. There are also countless other indications supporting this. His true form represents absolute nothingness in which nothing exists, and it does not allow anything to exist. Nothing exists there, and there are numerous indications confirming that interacting with his true form is completely impossible, and affecting it is even more impossible.

Even the power that was capable of destroying the entire Final Set disappeared within his nothingness. Even the supreme god—the highest and strongest being in the series—stated that his true form is indescribable and that he cannot defeat it.

It is the end of everything; it encompasses everything—causality and all that exists within the verse (and he is the only one who will remain in the end because he is the end itself, and nothing exists beyond him nor can anything surpass him).
There are additional justifications confirming that everything that happens does not affect his true form at all, along with countless other pieces of evidence. I will present all of this when the staff arrives, as everything is already prepared.

 

[Azertyhuuh]

If I kept not wanting people to bring up (warranted) concerns in my thread but I considered them as unneeded and irrelevant (they're not) and omitted context from scans in the face of others who knew about a verse I was repping and called it laughable acting like I was having the high-ground.. then maybe it's a good reason someone WOULD wanna be talking like this to me.

Call me 'too mean' if you want to, this has been consistent as hell for the past few threads.

I don’t have a problem with objections and counterarguments.
However, I do take issue with unhelpful comments that add nothing to the discussion while only contributing to its derailment—such as comments that are irrelevant even if somewhat related. These comments are unnecessary because the answer is already in the thread. People may not even read the full post, yet still leave random comments after only reading half of it or even just the title, and then proceed to leave insulting remarks that diminish me, such as: “I feel like this is just hype,” “this topic has no value,” and so on.
If you consider these comments normal, I don’t. I repeat that they are not normal to me.

Sukuna’s arguments, and other claims from even prominent supporters of Instant Death who are long-time proponents and experienced, have already been refuted with logical reasoning.

Despite that, no one was able to respond to those arguments, and instead people started attacking me with these kinds of comments.
Personally, I will not accept illogical arguments. If my arguments are not logical, I will admit it. But derailing the discussion with these comments and attempting to influence the staff’s perception is something I do not accept. This happens in every thread, and you are the reason for it, not me. Say whatever you want as well.

 

[sukuna171]

I don’t have a problem with objections and counterarguments.
However, I do take issue with unhelpful comments that add nothing to the discussion while only contributing to its derailment—such as comments that are irrelevant even if somewhat related. These comments are unnecessary because the answer is already in the thread. People may not even read the full post, yet still leave random comments after only reading half of it or even just the title, and then proceed to leave insulting remarks that diminish me, such as: “I feel like this is just hype,” “this topic has no value,” and so on.
If you consider these comments normal, I don’t. I repeat that they are not normal to me.

Sukuna’s arguments, and other claims from even prominent supporters of Instant Death who are long-time proponents and experienced, have already been refuted with logical reasoning.

Despite that, no one was able to respond to those arguments, and instead people started attacking me with these kinds of comments.
Personally, I will not accept illogical arguments. If my arguments are not logical, I will admit it. But derailing the discussion with these comments and attempting to influence the staff’s perception is something I do not accept. This happens in every thread, and you are the reason for it, not me. Say whatever you want as well.

you know I’m neutral right on the question of God’s non-existence. The only things I’m completely against are Nep Type 2 and Acausality Type 5, while I fully support the Ends Nep and Acausality Type 4.

 

[Azertyhuuh]

you know I’m neutral right on the question of God’s non-existence. The only things I’m completely against are Nep Type 2 and Acausality Type 5, while I fully support the Ends Nep and Acausality Type 4.

Can you tell me exactly why you oppose NEP Type 2? Before that, could you read the thread and properly understand the arguments regarding NEP Type 2 so you can see the reasoning? This argument was a collaboration between me, Elizhaa, and Ihsjihahxu, just so everyone is aware.

 

[Elizhaa]

The OP should be updated; DontTalkDT and my conclusion in the listed thread was NEP Type 1 and all the others aspects. It is the wrong context listed. The arguments that you listed for Yogiri acausality type 4 was for the End's or true form key which had it in the past. Even with the context above type 5 acausality was deemed to be type 4 for the true form in this thread and its related thread. A lot of relevant scans can still found on Yogiri's profile for acausality under his feat. The Japanese raws seem to make the transcendence of causality less explicit; I put a request for translation and it seems like it is the case.

Unless there is transdual nonexistence evidence, there is no type 2 NEP.
Existing at the beginning does not meant its "precede existence" especially within the context of the power; if it were concept that existed since the beginning it would it is type 2 without the best contexts while if the a concept existed before the beginning, there is strong proof that is it type 1 as a independent concept.
Precede existence is just supporting evidence if there were contexts; the context of the verse like from Darian (Volume 5 Chapter 7) or the Ultimate God just say at the beginning.

NEP 1 with all aspects for gods and the end along with Acausality Type 4 for the end could be fine.

 

[Azertyhuuh]

The OP should be updated; DontTalkDT and my conclusion in the listed thread was NEP Type 1 and all the others aspects. It is the wrong context listed. The arguments that you listed for Yogiri acausality type 4 was for the End's or true form key which had it in the past. Even with the context above type 5 acausality was deemed to be type 4 for the true form in this thread and its related thread. A lot of relevant scans can still found on Yogiri's profile for acausality under his feat. The Japanese raws seem to make the transcendence of causality less explicit; I put a request for translation and it seems like it is the case.

Unless there is transdual nonexistence evidence, there is no type 2 NEP.
Existing at the beginning does not meant its "precede existence" especially within the context of the power; if it were concept that existed since the beginning it would it is type 2 without the best contexts while if the a concept existed before the beginning, there is strong proof that is it type 1 as a independent concept.
Precede existence is just supporting evidence if there were contexts; the context of the verse like from Darian (Volume 5 Chapter 7) or the Ultimate God just say at the beginning.

NEP 1 with all aspects for gods and the end along with Acausality Type 4 for the end could be fine.

Well, it’s not necessary for a character to exist before existence in order to classify them as NEP Type 2; otherwise, every eternal character would automatically qualify for NEP 2.

As I explained in the thread, “the End” exists completely outside the duality of existence and nonexistence, as explicitly stated in the novel itself. On top of that, it transcends everything, and there is nothing beyond it. In other words, its darkness is the End—it lies outside the existence/nonexistence duality, transcends all things, and nothing exists after it:

That’s a good question. Maybe it’s like the gap between life and death—a space-time singularity, a flashback, or a dream? Like the last glimmer of life before you die? Or a single instant where everything comes apart when one’s fate has been decided? You’re not dead yet, but your death has been guaranteed. This place could be like a shadow born from the transition from life to death. Anyway, interpret it as you like
“Not that I believe you, but why are you here, then?”

I’ll go ahead and correct the mistakes, and I also want you to respond to what I just said, because I still see NEP 2 for Yogiri as debatable.

And Yogiri will have Nonexistence Erasure, standard Type 1, with all aspects.

The End surpasses everything, and there is nothing beyond it. Everything will return to it after reaching its end; it is the end of all things, and it is the only thing that will remain at the end because it is “the End” itself. In Instant Death, The End represents the end of everything. Everything returns to it after its conclusion—there is nothing beyond it, not even existence and nonexistence themselves. It is like the end of all things, and this includes existence and nonexistence as well (the nonexistence of gods). This means that The End exists outside the duality of existence and nonexistence, because it represents the end of both existence and nonexistence themselves. It is also outside the duality of life and death.

It was a dead end. The destination of all fates, beyond which there is nothing. The end of everything in human form. It is precisely because it is the end that it stands until the end. No one can go further than it. Before this thing, fate, the plot, and the like must be a joke.

I still think NEP Type 2 is debatable here.

The End surpasses everything, and there is nothing beyond it; it is the end of all things, the end of existence and nonexistence themselves. Nonexistence, such as the Sea of Darkness and the gods’ nonexistence, is also transcended by it. Therefore, it stands outside all dualities of existence and nonexistence, as well as life and death.
Does your view change now?

 

[RaikiKurohane99]

I disagree with NEP1 for Gods and consequently NEP2 for Yogiri, but I agree with Acausality type 4 and NEP1 for Yogiri . I also disagree with Void erasure and its aspects.

1. Nonexistent Physiology Type 1 (Gods):Gods have two states: life and death.

In the state of life, a god possesses body, mind,soul, and existence.

In reality, when a god is killed or erased, they return to Sea of Darkness to wait for the day they will revive again.

This means their state changes from life to death, and that “death” itself is simply another state of a god, just as UEG stated: death is merely one state of a god

However, when we look at the chapters of UEG vs Rick and UEG vs Toichirou:

UEG vs Rick
UEG vs Toichirou
UEG had her existence completely erased, meaning her state of life was destroyed (even though she was able to revive very quickly afterward).

But she still had to fall into the Sea of Darkness, which represents the state of death. This implies that a god must experience a lack of existence, becoming nonexistent, and completely to interact with the physical world

As we know, gods still exist in an informational form (That being possesses information linked to the world or the world’s axis, and a god likewise has information about their own self. For example, Malna has information tied to the world’s axis, and when she dies, she will be reborn in the world to which her information is bound)

Malna, who was destroyed by Miranda she appeared in the Sea of Darkness.

Her angels could not perceive her existence or identity, and she herself was completely cut off from the physical world. However, because her information and world core remained, she was able to return to her world.

In the Sea of Darkness, gods are typically either completely erased or sealed away. When a god dies or is completely erased, they fall into the Sea of Darkness, which is a state devoid of existence. There, they persist as beings that lack existence, until they restore themselves or revive their identity. The ‘core’ is a conceptual element that maintains their state of existence while they are alive. When it is destroyed, they die, fall into the Sea of Darkness, and become entities that lack existence.


This is Nonexistent Physiology Type 1

Your argument is that Gods because normally they return to the "sea of darkness" after death, and that's called a state. They are said to "cease to exist" from the regular world.

The problem with this is that they don't become "nonexistent", they just begin to exist as only a concept. As only Yogiri can destroy a God's concept, there have been no other cases of others killing gods.

Scan :

“Unbelievable. I definitely felt her core being destroyed...”
“Surely those other weaklings who call themselves gods would be killed once their core is destroyed. But a true god has no weaknesses. Even the concept of death does not apply to us.
”He had definitely felt her destruction. Her body had been erased, and her presence had vanished. Rick was absolutely certain she had been defeated. Yet even so, she stood before them like nothing had happened. He found it incomprehensible. Before such an absurdly powerful enemy, he had no idea how to proceed.
“Now then, it appears you have no further ploys. I suppose that marks the end of our encounter.”
The UEG casually swung her sword. Rick leaped forward to defend the Divine King, and both were neatly sliced in two. His Holy Sword had been useless.
Volume 10, Chapter 9

“Hmm. In truth, I felt some power attempting to affect me. That is likely your power to inflict instant death, but...what is death, anyway? Do you understand what it means to make someone die?” The boy didn’t respond. It was likely he had never given such deep thought to his own ability. “In my opinion, death is no more than a change in the state of the physical material making up a creature. Life is simply the name we give to the situation of numerous infinitesimal materials coming together and coincidentally giving birth to consciousness. Life and death are simply the movement, or lack thereof, of that structure.”
Volume 11, Chapter 14

“I am a god. Something of this caliber is no difficulty.” Though she wasn’t omnipotent or omniscient, since no such being existed, she could do more or less anything she set her mind to. She could create life, rewind time, or change fate. Of course, she wouldn’t do something boring like wield all those powers from the start. She would always limit herself based on her opponent to make the fight interesting. “I will not allow the same thing again, but if you have any other ploys, by all means try them. I will simply continue like this.”As she spoke, she began tightening her grip faster. Her interest was beginning to fade, finding this to be a waste of time.“Oh? I see you have changed your approach. You are now attempting to kill the very concept of my being. Of course, killing this vessel means little, so that is the correct path to take, but is it something you are capable of? Underhanded tactics like killing the concept of a person only works if you alone are capable of doing it. If we are both capable, then it becomes a simple contest of strength.”With a dull sound, the boy’s neck snapped. The UEG threw his motionless body to the ground.
Volume 11, Chapter 14

Scan 1 shows that their body and core is destroyed, and that's what it means to "cease to exist/presence vanishes"

Scan 2 shows that death is merely another PHYSICAL state for them, a physical change. So even if their body stops functioning or is destroyed, it doesn't matter.

3rd scan is in the same context but the next page, and here UEG says that killing someone's "concept" is the correct way (to killing a god, which was the context of the previous scan)

This shows that normally when Gods die, they return to the Sea of Darkness in the form of concepts (personal), and then resurrect from that state.

That isn't NEP, it's abstract existence on concepts

Let's start from this point.




From this, we know that UEG is not fully dead yet, but is approaching death, and her state is being transitioned from life to death. That transition itself is the embodiment of The End, or Yogiri’s power

This power changes the state of a character into Nothingness.

The place UEG is in is a boundary between existence and death—this is the manifestation of “The End.”

Why are you twisting the original text? It says "between life and death", not "between existence and death"

Especially in the context of nep2, where words like these matter, you use existence and death when that's not in the texts

From this, we know that UEG is not fully dead yet, but is approaching death, and her state is being transitioned from life to death. That transition itself is the embodiment of The End, or Yogiri’s power

This power changes the state of a character into Nothingness.

The place UEG is in is a boundary between existence and death—this is the manifestation of “The End.”


Yogiri has existed alongside the world or perhaps even before everything. He is the one who governs all creation, transcending everything, including life and death. He determines existence itself as well as the end of existence.

Yogiri does not transcend anything, the texts do not say that

It also doesn't say he exists before the world so that is your theory only

• all aspects:

Elizhaa agreed with these arguments regarding the matter and confirmed that the gods possess NEP Type 1, as is clear here. He also provided his own arguments, which are almost the same as those presented here. The gods and Yogiri would also have all other aspects for the reasons Elizhaa mentioned in his statement here as well. This matter was also previously accepted by @DontTalkDT here.

I also disagree with "all aspects" in anything

Yogiri's true form is "nothingness" but that are also all other nonexistent characters however they do not have NEP in all aspects

To begin with, I don't think information type 2 even exists in this verse and it is not on their profiles as a fundamental aspect either. so I disagree. I think Yogiri having aspect 1, 2 and 3 makes more sense because Yogiri has shown to be capable of killing those fundamental aspects

3. Acausality Type 4 (Yogiri):
As @Elizhaa mentioned here, since the Demon King novel has been removed, Yogiri will regain Type 4 acausality, as Elizhaa stated.

• Acausality (Type 4; Exists outside the system of the heavenly records and space-time. It is imperceptible / incomprehensible even from the point of view of acausal beings such as the HRE, and is stated to be beyond fate and causality itself; additionally, its attacks are also not attached to causality due to its nature).

Elizhaa’s statement: edit: It somewhat off topic, but Acausaility type 4 removal from Yogiri was largely from The Demon King is Unbeatable's evidence which was removed from the god's cases on passive causality manipulation and invincibility and that also weaken or removed conceptual manipulation evidence, which further weaken the evidence of acausality in the past, that got reinstated.

I agree with Acausality type 4

 

[ExcelsisBerny]

Yogiri? More like Yo“IneedtotakescansoutofcontextjustsoIdon’tgetsoloedbybaseSaiyanSagaGoku”giri.

 

[Hecky2222]

Didn't previous thread reject idea of "when core is destroyed so does information, concept"

How tf you all getting NEP 1 All Aspects? We literally agreed with fact it is only History thing. No conceptual, whatever shenanigans going here. Like deadass you guys link DT but same DT tells us you have to prove how every aspect is NEP(Mind you this is first step where OP failed)

I dont have time rn to write massive rebuttal and @RaikiKurohane99 already covered lot points anyway.

So at most generous rating(Cuz I don't have time for arguing endlessly now and if opponents don't want to argue or refute points here) I say

1. NEP for Gods are joke. NEP is state where you exist and you still can act, move, whatsoever. This doesn't apply here. Cuz even by logic when you die you go to nonexistence. It is most blatant Overtime Regeneration. It is not like gods can actively use their NEP like Alovenus(which could exist in nothingness how much she wanted even after getting nuked). Even if staff just close eye to this horrendous logic and still say "It is NEP" , it should be noted NEP in question is "Non Combat Applicable" since obviously they can't even act in that state. As I stated above, supporters should provide exactly reasoning for each aspect instead of throwing random All Aspects.
2. Acausality Type 5 generally doesn't even meet standards. I won't even go that deep and won't explain why "transcending causality" is nowhere near to Immutability, Ac4 is easy to get so fine by me.
3. As I said above I disagree with NEP for Gods. Meaning I disagree with Void Erasure also. I can see somewhat NEP1 for Yogiri but in that case OP has to prove every aspects as well instead of slapping all aspects otherwise it will be burden of proof. It ain't NEP 2 nor NEP 1 layer. It will be simply baseline NEP 1 for this case

So TLDR

1. NEP 1 for gods: Disagree
2. Ac5: Disagree
3. NEP 2, NEP 1 1 Layer or All Aspects Generally: Disagree as well
4. Ac4, NEP 1 for Yogiri: Fine

 

[Hecky2222]

To begin with, I don't think information type 2 even exists in this verse and it is not on their profiles as a fundamental aspect either. so I disagree. I think Yogiri having aspect 1, 2 and 3 makes more sense because Yogiri has shown to be capable of killing those fundamental aspects

you would need to have rebuttal if you think so. cuz it was recently added information Type 2(as well as layers for it) and it's on their profiles as Informational Destruction

 

[RaikiKurohane99]

you would need to have rebuttal if you think so. cuz it was recently added information Type 2(as well as layers for it) and it's on their profiles as Informational Destruction

Oh okay, that must have been recent then. Just add Aspect type 4 too in that case

 

[sukuna171]

Oh okay, that must have been recent then. Just add Aspect type 4 too in that case

yogiri could have Aspect type 5 for fate and causality

It was a dead end. The destination of all fates, beyond which there is nothing. The end of everything in human form. It is precisely because it is the end that it stands until the end. No one can go further than it. Before this thing, fate, the plot, and the like must be a joke.

There didn’t seem to be any
cause to the effect or an activation of any power.
The phenomenon was just too irrational, so they stopped thinking about it.

Malna couldn’t connect the effect to any cause related to Yogiri. Even as a
god, her eyes hadn’t seen anything. Yogiri had told her to die, and suddenly
Rilna was motionless. That was all. There didn’t seem to be anything
connecting those two facts, so she couldn’t even recognize that Yogiri
possessed an instant death power.
It was impossible.

 

[RaikiKurohane99]

yogiri could have Aspect type 5 for fate and causality

Fate aspect would be fine, but I think causality would not
That text is essentially another evidence for Acausality type 4, not that it lacks causality
For it to lack that, it would lack not just a cause but also an effect (causality as a whole), otherwise it's just Acausality type 4

 

[sukuna171]

Fate aspect would be fine, but I think causality would not
That text is essentially another evidence for Acausality type 4, not that it lacks causality
For it to lack that, it would lack not just a cause but also an effect (causality as a whole), otherwise it's just Acausality type 4

 

[Azertyhuuh]

I disagree with NEP1 for Gods and consequently NEP2 for Yogiri, but I agree with Acausality type 4 and NEP1 for Yogiri . I also disagree with Void erasure and its aspects.

Your argument is that Gods because normally they return to the "sea of darkness" after death, and that's called a state. They are said to "cease to exist" from the regular world.

The problem with this is that they don't become "nonexistent", they just begin to exist as only a concept. As only Yogiri can destroy a God's concept, there have been no other cases of others killing gods.

I don’t see any evidence stating that they become concepts, so I won’t waste any more effort responding to you on that point.

Second, NEP 1 can be obtained through the lack of a fundamental part of your existence, such as your concept, soul, or body. For example, a stone lacks a soul. It is not necessary to be nonexistent in every aspect in order to qualify for NEP 1; it is sufficient that you continue to exist in a state where a fundamental aspect of your existence—such as your concept, soul, body, or something even more essential—has been destroyed, while still continuing to exist in that condition, like a stone that lacks a soul, for example, as stated on the NEP page.

Material Nonexistence: The character doesn't exist in a conventional sense. In terms of binary, this would be a 0, where existence is 1 and nonexistence is 0. In simple terms, that means that the characters simply lack the aspect, in the same way that a stone lacks a soul.

Scan :



Scan 1 shows that their body and core is destroyed, and that's what it means to "cease to exist/presence vanishes"

Scan 2 shows that death is merely another PHYSICAL state for them, a physical change. So even if their body stops functioning or is destroyed, it doesn't matter.

3rd scan is in the same context but the next page, and here UEG says that killing someone's "concept" is the correct way (to killing a god, which was the context of the previous scan)

This shows that normally when Gods die, they return to the Sea of Darkness in the form of concepts (personal), and then resurrect from that state.

That isn't NEP, it's abstract existence on concepts

Your statement is not correct.

This is simply an explanation of the nature of life and death and nothing more, to be honest, based on her understanding of life and death. Any person could give the same answer. However, the important point is that the gods are able to continue existing in a state of non-existence even after their soul, body, mind, and history are destroyed in the Sea of Darkness.

Regarding the “concept” again, that is merely your inference and is not supported by any other evidence. As I explained to you earlier, NEP 1 does not require existing in a state of non-existence across all aspects, and this is something I already clarified above; therefore, the relevant aspects are determined accordingly.

What happened with the boy here is that he attempted to use instant death on UEG, but that ability does not work on her. Instead, her neck was still destroyed, and his instant death ability did not activate. After that, the boy attempted to target her “concept of existence” in order to kill her, but that also does not work. She told him that this is the correct path, but it still would not succeed because she is also capable of it. Thus, it becomes purely a matter of strength between them.

All characters are capable of conceptual erasure, including gods, and the context is clear. Also, I do not think you understand what death means here. Even if we assume the boy succeeded in killing her concept of existence, she would die, yes, but she would also return. You seem to think death here means the permanent destruction of gods, but that is not the case.

The boy is trying to kill her, and yes, gods can die even without targeting their concept of existence. That is what he was attempting to do, but this does not mean she would not return. As stated in the context, attempting to kill the concept itself is already a failed approach because she is also capable of doing it. It is not only Yogiri who can do this.

Do not distort the context further, because it is already clear.

Why are you twisting the original text? It says "between life and death", not "between existence and death"

Especially in the context of nep2, where words like these matter, you use existence and death when that's not in the texts

Yogiri does not transcend anything, the texts do not say that

It also doesn't say he exists before the world so that is your theory only

I also disagree with "all aspects" in anything

Yogiri's true form is "nothingness" but that are also all other nonexistent characters however they do not have NEP in all aspects

To begin with, I don't think information type 2 even exists in this verse and it is not on their profiles as a fundamental aspect either. so I disagree. I think Yogiri having aspect 1, 2 and 3 makes more sense because Yogiri has shown to be capable of killing those fundamental aspects

I agree with Acausality type 4

Hahahahaha hahahahaha hahahahaha hahahahaha hahahahaha no no no no no, so you don’t even know that Information Type 2 exists in the work, and that all gods even have Information Manipulation Type 2, and even multiple layers of conceptual and Information Type 2 manipulation, lol. And you said he doesn’t transcend anything hahahaha. No no, honestly I’m not even going to continue or waste my time replying to you, I’m literally dying of laughter lol what is this. I expected this wouldn’t even be a proper response from someone experienced, I was really surprised by this reply... I doubted it, and it looks like your comment here really made me laugh a lot. Sorry, but it made me laugh a lot.

This comment literally shows that you don’t even know the work itself or what is actually in it, and on top of that you are twisting contexts and creating conclusions. I just assumed it was lack of experience even with NEP 1 and that you don’t know much about it, I already explained it to you, but after reading your comment here I understood everything. Anyway, this is my last reply to you, and I hope you don’t respond again. You really killed me with laughter.

 

[Ruler_Star_Kuma]

I don’t see any evidence stating that they become concepts, so I won’t waste any more effort responding to you on that point.

Second, NEP 1 can be obtained through the lack of a fundamental part of your existence, such as your concept, soul, or body. For example, a stone lacks a soul. It is not necessary to be nonexistent in every aspect in order to qualify for NEP 1; it is sufficient that you continue to exist in a state where a fundamental aspect of your existence—such as your concept, soul, body, or something even more essential—has been destroyed, while still continuing to exist in that condition, like a stone that lacks a soul, for example, as stated on the NEP page.



Your statement is not correct.

This is simply an explanation of the nature of life and death and nothing more, to be honest, based on her understanding of life and death. Any person could give the same answer. However, the important point is that the gods are able to continue existing in a state of non-existence even after their soul, body, mind, and history are destroyed in the Sea of Darkness.

Regarding the “concept” again, that is merely your inference and is not supported by any other evidence. As I explained to you earlier, NEP 1 does not require existing in a state of non-existence across all aspects, and this is something I already clarified above; therefore, the relevant aspects are determined accordingly.

What happened with the boy here is that he attempted to use instant death on UEG, but that ability does not work on her. Instead, her neck was still destroyed, and his instant death ability did not activate. After that, the boy attempted to target her “concept of existence” in order to kill her, but that also does not work. She told him that this is the correct path, but it still would not succeed because she is also capable of it. Thus, it becomes purely a matter of strength between them.

All characters are capable of conceptual erasure, including gods, and the context is clear. Also, I do not think you understand what death means here. Even if we assume the boy succeeded in killing her concept of existence, she would die, yes, but she would also return. You seem to think death here means the permanent destruction of gods, but that is not the case.

The boy is trying to kill her, and yes, gods can die even without targeting their concept of existence. That is what he was attempting to do, but this does not mean she would not return. As stated in the context, attempting to kill the concept itself is already a failed approach because she is also capable of doing it. It is not only Yogiri who can do this.

Do not distort the context further, because it is already clear.

Hahahahaha hahahahaha hahahahaha hahahahaha hahahahaha no no no no no, so you don’t even know that Information Type 2 exists in the work, and that all gods even have Information Manipulation Type 2, and even multiple layers of conceptual and Information Type 2 manipulation, lol. And you said he doesn’t transcend anything hahahaha. No no, honestly I’m not even going to continue or waste my time replying to you, I’m literally dying of laughter lol what is this. I expected this wouldn’t even be a proper response from someone experienced, I was really surprised by this reply... I doubted it, and it looks like your comment here really made me laugh a lot. Sorry, but it made me laugh a lot.

This comment literally shows that you don’t even know the work itself or what is actually in it, and on top of that you are twisting contexts and creating conclusions. I just assumed it was lack of experience even with NEP 1 and that you don’t know much about it, I already explained it to you, but after reading your comment here I understood everything. Anyway, this is my last reply to you, and I hope you don’t respond again. You really killed me with laughter.

GIVE IT A REST ALREADY, DAMN

And mfs calling me too mean for calling out how you legitimately suck instant death larp overlord right here

 

[Azertyhuuh]

Didn't previous thread reject idea of "when core is destroyed so does information, concept"

How tf you all getting NEP 1 All Aspects? We literally agreed with fact it is only History thing. No conceptual, whatever shenanigans going here. Like deadass you guys link DT but same DT tells us you have to prove how every aspect is NEP(Mind you this is first step where OP failed)

I dont have time rn to write massive rebuttal and @RaikiKurohane99 already covered lot points anyway.

So at most generous rating(Cuz I don't have time for arguing endlessly now and if opponents don't want to argue or refute points here) I say

1. NEP for Gods are joke. NEP is state where you exist and you still can act, move, whatsoever. This doesn't apply here. Cuz even by logic when you die you go to nonexistence. It is most blatant Overtime Regeneration. It is not like gods can actively use their NEP like Alovenus(which could exist in nothingness how much she wanted even after getting nuked). Even if staff just close eye to this horrendous logic and still say "It is NEP" , it should be noted NEP in question is "Non Combat Applicable" since obviously they can't even act in that state. As I stated above, supporters should provide exactly reasoning for each aspect instead of throwing random All Aspects.
2. Acausality Type 5 generally doesn't even meet standards. I won't even go that deep and won't explain why "transcending causality" is nowhere near to Immutability, Ac4 is easy to get so fine by me.
3. As I said above I disagree with NEP for Gods. Meaning I disagree with Void Erasure also. I can see somewhat NEP1 for Yogiri but in that case OP has to prove every aspects as well instead of slapping all aspects otherwise it will be burden of proof. It ain't NEP 2 nor NEP 1 layer. It will be simply baseline NEP 1 for this case

So TLDR

1. NEP 1 for gods: Disagree
2. Ac5: Disagree
3. NEP 2, NEP 1 1 Layer or All Aspects Generally: Disagree as well
4. Ac4, NEP 1 for Yogiri: Fine

Even you also do not understand NEP 1. Who told you that a character must interact in a non-existent state in order to have NEP 1???

It is sufficient that they continue to exist even in a state of non-existence. Why is it a requirement that they must attack while in a non-existent state in order to qualify for NEP 1? This is not the point. It is about non-existent nature itself. Otherwise, if we follow your logic, then classifying “void worlds” as NEP 1 just because they are static would also be wrong, right?

Also, to add something: NEP 1 does not require being non-existent in all aspects. It is enough to lack at least one fundamental aspect of your existence, such as your concept, soul, body, or other essential parts. For example, a stone lacks a soul, as clearly explained in the NEP 1 page. The gods, as I told you, are capable of continuing to exist in a non-existent state even after being destroyed spiritually, physically, mentally, and historically in the Sea of Darkness. Therefore, they would still qualify for NEP 1 alongside these conditions.

Regarding Nonexistent Physiology Type 1, it would apply even if the gods did not have NEP 1, due to the Sea of Darkness being a void where nothing exists. Therefore, it qualifies as NEP 1 nature as well. As you know, Yogiri can destroy anything and is the end of all things; everything returns to it and there is nothing beyond it. So even apart from the gods, he can still be argued to have Nonexistent Physiology Type 1 destruction.

Third, regarding Yogiri’s NEP 2: as I said, the End transcends the duality of existence and non-existence (where non-existence here refers to the Sea of Darkness, which has NEP 1 nature). It is stated that it transcends everything and that nothing exists beyond it. It is the end of all things (the end of both existence and non-existence itself), and it completely surpasses this duality.

It was a dead end. The destination of all fates, beyond which there is nothing. The end of everything in human form. It is precisely because it is the end that it stands until the end. No one can go further than it. Before this thing, fate, the plot, and the like must be a joke.

Rilna had died at roughly the same time as Malna, so it wouldn’t have been strange if she were nearby. Since she had died first, she should have been deeper down. Malna turned toward the depths of the darkness. There was only an empty black void. If someone had been there, she should have been able to see them. Light and darkness were relative here, so the darkness would not have obstructed her vision.

 

[Ruler_Star_Kuma]

ur just insulting the guy at this point, whats ur problem if he genuinely believes it. maybe he has a good enough reason for him to believe it, but that doesnt mean u should dismiss his position

IS IT TOO MEAN NOW? Or are you finally seeing the blatant difference now

 

[Vesxpura]

IS IT TOO MEAN NOW? Or are you finally seeing the blatant difference now

its always been too mean, especially when ur mentioning someone as knowledgeable as azerty. hes had good contributions to profiles on this wiki

 

[Cipher72]

its always been too mean, especially when ur mentioning someone as knowledgeable as azerty. hes had good contributions to profiles on this wiki

 

[Zanesucksatlife]

its always been too mean, especially when ur mentioning someone as knowledgeable as azerty. hes had good contributions to profiles on this wiki

What

 

[Vesxpura]

u needa believe in the heart of the cards vro im telling you azerty is gonna make some top tier debunk n get this thread accepted. i mean we can all agree its way better than the other one which larped philo which is objectively worse than larping id

 

[Cipher72]

u needa believe in the heart of the cards vro im telling you azerty is gonna make some top tier debunk n get this thread accepted. i mean we can all agree its way better than the other one which larped philo which is objectively worse than larping id

cope

1. to deal successfully with a difficult situation: 2. to deal successfully…

dictionary.cambridge.org

All jokes aside this is the same rehashed topic I do agree that it's more coherent but yea...
Anyways I share the same concerns as Raiki

 

[Vesxpura]

All jokes aside this is the same rehashed topic I do agree that it's more coherent but yea...
Anyways I share the same concerns as Raiki

cope doesnt exist in my vocabulary. also theres like no point arguing if the mods r absolutely convinced on their opinion. its not a democracy where u gotta convince the other person to change their ways so lwk ts guy js wasting time atp.

 

[Wesker018]

 

[Ruler_Star_Kuma]

Anyways I share the same concerns as Raiki

pretty much, not even counting the fact the return comment to them is just

its not a democracy where u gotta convince the other person to change their ways so lwk ts guy js wasting time atp.

what are you even TALKING about bro.

 

[Vesxpura]

what are you even TALKING about bro.

state of the wiki if azerty doesnt become mod by the end of the month
also u seem like really angry, you should calm down

 

[Enter_Bluey]

He's always angry that's his thing

 

[Elizhaa]

Your argument is that Gods because normally they return to the "sea of darkness" after death, and that's called a state. They are said to "cease to exist" from the regular world.

The problem with this is that they don't become "nonexistent", they just begin to exist as only a concept. As only Yogiri can destroy a God's concept, there have been no other cases of others killing gods.

They can destroy each other concepts but they eventually come back; UEG make sure it is was the case for Toichiro; they just can't permanently killed each other; it makes less for UEG's of concept destroying since here concept were destroyed.

1. NEP for Gods are joke. NEP is state where you exist and you still can act, move, whatsoever. This doesn't apply here. Cuz even by logic when you die you go to nonexistence. It is most blatant Overtime Regeneration. It is not like gods can actively use their NEP like Alovenus(which could exist in nothingness how much she wanted even after getting nuked). Even if staff just close eye to this horrendous logic and still say "It is NEP" , it should be noted NEP in question is "Non Combat Applicable" since obviously they can't even act in that state. As I stated above, supporters should provide exactly reasoning for each aspect instead of throwing random All Aspects.

It is not a requirements to even be able to move or interacted with the world for NEP; the page already have it listed:

Limitations​

• As the user no longer exists, they may be unable to interact with reality.

Personally, from the recent points, I think Azertyhuuh's point makes more sense on NEP arguments for type 1; it seems some of recent of arguments have misunderstanding of NEP page

Fate aspect would be fine, but I think causality would not
That text is essentially another evidence for Acausality type 4, not that it lacks causality
For it to lack that, it would lack not just a cause but also an effect (causality as a whole), otherwise it's just Acausality type 4

The raws mentioned causality; albeit it can also mean karma which support both fate and causality; Yogiri also resistance for fate manipulation in his first key which support fate. The judgment is basically case by case and some may be impressive than others depending on the description. Even then, I mentioned similar that it does show not any cause and effect in the verse and the acausality thread aboeve and got type 4.
Though, if there more descriptions that lacking or transcending causality/ cause or effect make something unchanging in the series, it could probably been type 5

 

[Hecky2222]

It is not a requirements to even be able to move or interacted with the world for NEP; the page already have it listed:

Limitations​

• As the user no longer exists, they may be unable to interact with reality.

Personally, from the recent points, I think Azertyhuuh's point makes more sense on NEP arguments for type 1; it seems some of recent of arguments have misunderstanding of NEP page

You provided nothing to justify aspects btw. DT tells you need individual reasoning for each aspect

They can destroy each other concepts but they eventually come back; UEG make sure it is was the case for Toichiro; they just can't permanently killed each other; it makes less for UEG's of concept destroying since here concept were destroyed.

How tf you are bringing again thing which was rejected multiple times?

As I said: We didnt accept Conceptual, Informational Erasure Regeneration. Literally page you linked tells us History Regen bruh.

I covered it in my post already:

So if you genuinely argue for gods NEP. It would be NEP 1(Soul, Mind, History) at best. No all aspects thing whatsoever. And I am genuinely failing to find even sufficient justification for that NEP 1 even

This would under this btw

Instant Death Rules​

• Any new CRT centred around addition of previously rejected abilities must contain a link to the previous CRT where it was rejected, furthermore the OP must be self sufficient in addressing the reasoning behind the rejection, if it fails to address the logic behind the removal then the thread is liable to be removed under a moderators discretion however it can still be opened at a later point in time if the OP is adequately edited to meet the above requirements. The previous downgrades have been agreed upon without much intervention as such changing them requires sufficient evidence, something which has been quite lacking in recent revisions.
  
  
  

Yeah no if arguments make no sense, read whole thread again and debunk UEG own statement
"It's useless. There's nothing here. You can't destroy something that isn't there.""Don't **** with me! There's no such concept!"

Like bruh it doesn't even take braincells to think whatever darkness is simply place that revives them. How tf you have omniscient(Mind you it is on their profile) character that doesn't believe place that they get revive is "Nonexistence". It is just easy to understand -> That place can be afterlife, regeneration place after all rather than "NEP Void"

1. So prove Darkness is Nonexistence and why supposedly nigh omniscient gods who gets revived by "Nonexistence" and who doesn't believe concept of nonexistence are idiots
2. Prove each aspect individually. Simply being nonexistent isn't even All Aspects and nowhere near to it.

 

[Ruler_Star_Kuma]

They can destroy each other concepts but they eventually come back; UEG make sure it is was the case for Toichiro;

Why is everyone saying this with little if- actually, there is hardly ANY evidence to support aside from a may as well be if not damn near 'they can do this just trust me bro' without any indication on that end.

Still nothing to be said as to why this thread or why this is wrong by the way whether it be you or the (context cutting) lad that just so happens to be the very OP of this thread in terms of how they can regenerate from their JUST their concept being destroyed or even destroy others. This doesn't even go into the other aspects of the 'apparent regen they have' (not that history counts either but that's another time, hope the sarcasm was noticed).

Zero debunks on how the mentality of gods doesn't matter to their healing when being 'conceptually erased' (there's more evidence for it than against it), zero pieces of evidence warranting any higher forms of regen for Gods outside of those on the level of UEG for mid-godly (not that anything proves her getting beyond there too), seven showings of not following the discussion rule. Are we just doing this for the sake of it now?

We are STILL just talking about UEG who despite 'having history regen' doesn't believe in being nonexistent OR EVEN A PLACE for that matter, and sees the random instant death boy as better than the apparent 'concept destroying' Toichiro by the way, can we get SOME REEEEAAALLL PROOF on why these Gods have NEP upon dying? If you wanna keep making the verse look like the potential man verse of light novels I'd expect someone who DISAGREED WITH SWEETDAO on the very thought of high-godly getting done in that it'd be better given, but you've given none of that.

 

[Robo432343]

Disagree with Lord Azerty FRA

 

[Ruler_Star_Kuma]

He's always angry that's his thing

YOU DAMN RIGHT, spite is a good motivator when you see people who lie through their teeth

 

[RaikiKurohane99]

They can destroy each other concepts but they eventually come back; UEG make sure it is was the case for Toichiro; they just can't permanently killed each other; it makes less for UEG's of concept destroying since here concept were destroyed.

The profile you linked does not have any description of UEG regenerating from conceptual destruction. It says she can resist that, not regenerate.

The texts from above also say the same. It will become a contest of strength and overpowering your opponent, not regeneratingm

The raws mentioned causality; albeit it can also mean karma which support both fate and causality; Yogiri also resistance for fate manipulation in his first key which support fate. The judgment is basically case by case and some may be impressive than others depending on the description. Even then, I mentioned similar that it does show not any cause and effect in the verse and the acausality thread aboeve and got type 4.
Though, if there more descriptions that lacking or transcending causality/ cause or effect make something unchanging in the series, it could probably been type 5

Fate = Causality would be case by case as you said. It's a matter of what the translator chooses.
However, the texts you link for the cause and effect part are all just about there being no apparent cause to the effects produced by Yogiri's power. It's not that there isn't any cause and effect entirely but that the cause cannot be seen by others while the effect is produced without that apparent cause.
So once again, in summary it's not about lacking both sides of causality but having one side be imperceptible by other people. That tells me more about an irregular cause-and-effect system instead of a lack of such a system.
What the person gave above as text is a good example:

There didn’t seem to be any cause to the effect or an activation of any power. The phenomenon was just too irrational, so they stopped thinking about it.

and

Malna couldn’t connect the effect to any cause related to Yogiri. Even as a god, her eyes hadn’t seen anything. Yogiri had told her to die, and suddenly Rilna was motionless. That was all. There didn’t seem to be anything connecting those two facts, so she couldn’t even recognize that Yogiri possessed an instant death power. It was impossible.

I don’t see any evidence stating that they become concepts, so I won’t waste any more effort responding to you on that point.

Second, NEP 1 can be obtained through the lack of a fundamental part of your existence, such as your concept, soul, or body. For example, a stone lacks a soul. It is not necessary to be nonexistent in every aspect in order to qualify for NEP 1; it is sufficient that you continue to exist in a state where a fundamental aspect of your existence—such as your concept, soul, body, or something even more essential—has been destroyed, while still continuing to exist in that condition, like a stone that lacks a soul, for example, as stated on the NEP page.

The others can see where the "concept" part is mentioned, but I will not repeat it once again for you.
You don't have to be NEP on all aspects yes, but you still have to be NEP on an aspect that you're active as while not existing as other, non-NEP aspects.
So existing after your soul and mind is destroyed without any explanation of there being an additional aspect they can exist as, is NEP. But if there is context that after their soul and mind is destroyed, they exist as some other fundamental aspect, such as Concept or information, then that changes things. At that point it's no longer NEP but simply Abstract Existence on that fundamental aspect. So Abstract Existence (Concept Type 3) in this case.

Your statement is not correct.

This is simply an explanation of the nature of life and death and nothing more, to be honest, based on her understanding of life and death. Any person could give the same answer. However, the important point is that the gods are able to continue existing in a state of non-existence even after their soul, body, mind, and history are destroyed in the Sea of Darkness.

Regarding the “concept” again, that is merely your inference and is not supported by any other evidence. As I explained to you earlier, NEP 1 does not require existing in a state of non-existence across all aspects, and this is something I already clarified above; therefore, the relevant aspects are determined accordingly.

What happened with the boy here is that he attempted to use instant death on UEG, but that ability does not work on her. Instead, her neck was still destroyed, and his instant death ability did not activate. After that, the boy attempted to target her “concept of existence” in order to kill her, but that also does not work. She told him that this is the correct path, but it still would not succeed because she is also capable of it. Thus, it becomes purely a matter of strength between them.

All characters are capable of conceptual erasure, including gods, and the context is clear. Also, I do not think you understand what death means here. Even if we assume the boy succeeded in killing her concept of existence, she would die, yes, but she would also return. You seem to think death here means the permanent destruction of gods, but that is not the case.

The boy is trying to kill her, and yes, gods can die even without targeting their concept of existence. That is what he was attempting to do, but this does not mean she would not return. As stated in the context, attempting to kill the concept itself is already a failed approach because she is also capable of doing it. It is not only Yogiri who can do this.

Do not distort the context further, because it is already clear.

You have not proven that their state of "death" is nonexistent, and I don't feel like my argument regarding concepts was properly refuted, so my stance remains the same as before.
I already explained before about your NEP aspects and God in the above section so I won't repeat it
Yes, it is the correct path and it's a matter of strength. That all the more supports your argument, I don't understand how you are saying that I don't understand the text.
If we assume the boy succeeded in destroying her concept, we do not assume she can come back from that state, as there's no proof she can. On the contrary, based on UEG saying it is the correct way (to killing a God), we have more reason to believe they cannot come back from this state.
This is also backed up by Yogiri's death manipulation also being listed as conceptual destruction.

Yogiri Takatou

Yogiri Takato (高遠たかとお 夜よ霧ぎり, Takatō Yogiri?) is the main protagonist of the Instant Death series and a high school student who got transported to another world by a woman called Sion. After being abandoned to die by his classmates for being powerless, and asleep, alongside Tomochika, Ayaka...

vsbattles.fandom.com

So I'm not distorting any context, quit with your accusations against everyone that opposes you.

Hahahahaha hahahahaha hahahahaha hahahahaha hahahahaha no no no no no, so you don’t even know that Information Type 2 exists in the work, and that all gods even have Information Manipulation Type 2, and even multiple layers of conceptual and Information Type 2 manipulation, lol. And you said he doesn’t transcend anything hahahaha. No no, honestly I’m not even going to continue or waste my time replying to you, I’m literally dying of laughter lol what is this. I expected this wouldn’t even be a proper response from someone experienced, I was really surprised by this reply... I doubted it, and it looks like your comment here really made me laugh a lot. Sorry, but it made me laugh a lot.

This comment literally shows that you don’t even know the work itself or what is actually in it, and on top of that you are twisting contexts and creating conclusions. I just assumed it was lack of experience even with NEP 1 and that you don’t know much about it, I already explained it to you, but after reading your comment here I understood everything. Anyway, this is my last reply to you, and I hope you don’t respond again. You really killed me with laughter.

This is just rude behavior. You can be reported for this type of behavior, you know.

Since you act rudely every time you reply to someone who opposes you, I’ve also lost interest in replying to you, so this will be my last reply.

 

[Robo432343]

Hahahahaha hahahahaha hahahahaha hahahahaha hahahahaha no no no no no, so you don’t even know that Information Type 2 exists in the work, and that all gods even have Information Manipulation Type 2, and even multiple layers of conceptual and Information Type 2 manipulation, lol. And you said he doesn’t transcend anything hahahaha. No no, honestly I’m not even going to continue or waste my time replying to you, I’m literally dying of laughter lol what is this. I expected this wouldn’t even be a proper response from someone experienced, I was really surprised by this reply... I doubted it, and it looks like your comment here really made me laugh a lot. Sorry, but it made me laugh a lot.

new copy pasta just dropped

 

[Mbpoops]

Oh boy

 

[ShinMaximillion]

Hahahahaha hahahahaha hahahahaha hahahahaha hahahahaha no no no no no, so you don’t even know that Information Type 2 exists in the work, and that all gods even have Information Manipulation Type 2, and even multiple layers of conceptual and Information Type 2 manipulation, lol. And you said he doesn’t transcend anything hahahaha. No no, honestly I’m not even going to continue or waste my time replying to you, I’m literally dying of laughter lol what is this. I expected this wouldn’t even be a proper response from someone experienced, I was really surprised by this reply... I doubted it, and it looks like your comment here really made me laugh a lot. Sorry, but it made me laugh a lot.

Undisputed goat.