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He was just changing some outdated profiles to 2-A since they scale to 2-A characters but were listed as 5-AWell, I currently don't know if I should have allowed those revisions in the first place. I may have misunderstood the context.
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General DC Comics Discussion Thread
- Thread starter Confluctor
- Start date
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- dc comics
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Well, I currently don't know if I should have allowed those revisions in the first place. I may have misunderstood the context.
Nullify my warning
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It from the absolute edition of multiversity. He uses platonic or monadic statements to showcase just how mundane the material plane is. Remember a platonic being or monad is 0, but in DC case this platonic or monadic realm does not work that way as there are many platonic or monadic beings there.
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That's not a retcon as the scan l showed came later.
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Yeah, DC often described a multi-layered hierarchy of existence, with Material Reality being the most mundane, but the further you go into this pattern, the more archetypal the worlds become. The Speed Force Wall is the superluminal barrier through which matter is converted into pure information when it is crossed. Realms in the Sphere of the Gods are called archetypal and platonic worlds inhabited by living ideas. Each god represents an idea or concept fundamental to existence, and their absence leaves a void in the universe that must be filled, as was the case when Darkseid disappeared, affecting the universe, and another evil god had to take his place. The lesser beings who entered the realms of the Sphere did so through intermediaries such as Boom Tubes or magical portals, or by other means, and interacted primarily with "shells" of the inhabitants of the Sphere of the Gods. The Monitors are living thoughts and they live in an archetypal world where everything is deeper and more fundamental, where meaning submits to the Overvoid. Even the inhabitants of the Fifth Dimension are described as imaginary-thought constructs.
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So DC's version of "platonic or monadic realms" work different from monadism and platonism is tiered
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Emerald Knight came out in 2022 when did this guidebook come out? And why isn't it accessible?
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It's from JLA/Spectre: Soul War, which DeMatteis wrote.
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Oh Got it mixed up.
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You have to buy it at the store. Online cant be found. Your scan wasn't emerald knight.
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Because realistically there is only one true monadic entity. Though there monads in absolute of what they represent. Leibniz monadic theory has realities made up of things called monads. Although not absolute there is a true monad which emanated everything, eternity girl had a thing about this which even the characters(protag and antag) were powered by monadic cores.
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How would you tier a false monad?
Oliver_de_jesus
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i guess it could scale to the CU as fake Monads could be just humanity´s interpretation of true Monad, give Monad is unknownable, fake Monads are what our perception can undestand "the knownable God" basically
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So basically we can't even verify it or check the consistency. Also my scan is emerald Knight what are you talk about
So basically we can't tier them how we would tier monads normally then since they don't fit the bill. Ok
Definitely not the same tier you'd give a real monad
I'm asking for the 764th time now, is there no discord server at ALL??! these discussions would flow a lot better because I don't think we're getting our points across very good
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A false monad would still qualify for outerversal though but not boundless. Your retconned scan shows final crisis.
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HI, I think Superboy should have plot manipulation ability & higher tier
Superboy Prime changed Imaginary Stories Reject after he hit it, the reason he said it was imaginary stories reject because it was a story from Lucien Library that he never read before, which is an impossible story to happen and made from horror of human heart(1)(2)(Impossible Volume) & Crisis Energy is explained to be born from the bad side of humans (we are the batteries for the crisis energy and its opposite) such as greed, selfishness, predation & human desire to be big, this implies Crisis Energy made the impossible Stories in Lucien Library that's why The Darkest Knight with Crisis Energy can make the Story From Lucien Library come true(The stories that never would have been allowed to be real before) like the description of Lucien story (impossible story to happen). So i mean Superboy prime change the story from Lucien Library that made of crisis energy.
In Superman #36 Superboy Prime turns the panel into a sketch after losing control and killing Ignition. I think plot manipulation for Earth Prime is normal, because it's described as a metafiction world and superboy prime said realities is a comic page (2). And what Superboy Prime did in #36 is similar to what Cary Bates did in the past. Let's get silver age, in Earth Prime there is a DC Comics Tower where there is Julie Schwartz (Script editor), Cary Bates & Elliot (Both this are writer) they are representations of real people btw, you can search their names. Cary Bates was imagining the plot for the next issue and it really happened in reality. "I started dreaming up a plot for my next flash yarn". He chose Trickster as the villain and it actually happened in reality. He did it all just with his mind and happened, all passed and he plotting trickster last job for the ending of the story by imagining that Trickster will rob the bank and it's actually happening like he plotting Trickster comeback. And there's a panel that says everyone from Earth Prime has abilities like Cary Bates. It means superboy prime has it like in Superman #36.
He once tortured mxzptlk and made him scared(even with his magic returned) and shouted to seal off the fifth dimension and said superboy prime is the end, maybe it implies superboy can affect something in fifth dimension
Superboy Prime changed Imaginary Stories Reject after he hit it, the reason he said it was imaginary stories reject because it was a story from Lucien Library that he never read before, which is an impossible story to happen and made from horror of human heart(1)(2)(Impossible Volume) & Crisis Energy is explained to be born from the bad side of humans (we are the batteries for the crisis energy and its opposite) such as greed, selfishness, predation & human desire to be big, this implies Crisis Energy made the impossible Stories in Lucien Library that's why The Darkest Knight with Crisis Energy can make the Story From Lucien Library come true(The stories that never would have been allowed to be real before) like the description of Lucien story (impossible story to happen). So i mean Superboy prime change the story from Lucien Library that made of crisis energy.
In Superman #36 Superboy Prime turns the panel into a sketch after losing control and killing Ignition. I think plot manipulation for Earth Prime is normal, because it's described as a metafiction world and superboy prime said realities is a comic page (2). And what Superboy Prime did in #36 is similar to what Cary Bates did in the past. Let's get silver age, in Earth Prime there is a DC Comics Tower where there is Julie Schwartz (Script editor), Cary Bates & Elliot (Both this are writer) they are representations of real people btw, you can search their names. Cary Bates was imagining the plot for the next issue and it really happened in reality. "I started dreaming up a plot for my next flash yarn". He chose Trickster as the villain and it actually happened in reality. He did it all just with his mind and happened, all passed and he plotting trickster last job for the ending of the story by imagining that Trickster will rob the bank and it's actually happening like he plotting Trickster comeback. And there's a panel that says everyone from Earth Prime has abilities like Cary Bates. It means superboy prime has it like in Superman #36.
He once tortured mxzptlk and made him scared(even with his magic returned) and shouted to seal off the fifth dimension and said superboy prime is the end, maybe it implies superboy can affect something in fifth dimension
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Plot manipulation would probably be fine, you could also probably give him breaking the fourth wall, I personally can’t judge the higher tier part because I don’t know enough about him
Oliver_de_jesus
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he use Annataz to temporally depower him and Myx thinks that in a fair fight he could turn Prime inside out, so i dont think we can use this, also this was amped Prime as is part of Countdown anyway
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Is it still important if metafiction elements are already there?
But, they actually break the fourth wall. You can check the “He did it all just with his mind” link—Cary Bates even says, “you see, reader.”
And Superboy-Prime is well known for breaking the fourth wall. He even knows that even if everyone dies, they’ll be rebooted back to life (Death Metal: Secret Origin), and there are many other examples, like in the current Superman run.
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Where is it listed?
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moment before zatanna sent mxy back to fifth dimension, mxyz magic is actually returned. even when mxy with his powered friend in fifth dimension, he still scared and shouted to seal the fifth dimension & called sbp is the end. It means that sbp is capable affect things in fifth dimension right?
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Breaking the Fourth Wall is definitely fine as an ability, but his plot manipulation seems very limited thus far.
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WhyBreaking the Fourth Wall is definitely fine as an ability, but his plot manipulation seems very limited thus far.
Oliver_de_jesus
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Those two not have something remotely close to anything that Prime had done, Deadpool actually need a infinity stone to affect the plot, he often break the fourth wall but not like this, i sure you refer to Dreadpool where he done something similar but it was with context behindBecause he apparently cannot freely rewrite the script, for example.
Have we given She-Hulk, Deadpool, or Harley Quinn plot manipulation for similar feats to Superboy Prime?
She hulk depend on a specific era iirc
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Based on the scans he’s at least able to influence the plot so it’d probably qualify for limited, as for your question, she hulk has plot manipulation because she’s able to make her writer rewrite her story, Deadpool does not have plot manipulation , Harley Quinn’s fourth wall breaking stuff isn’t acknowledged on her profile at allBecause he apparently cannot freely rewrite the script, for example.
Have we given She-Hulk, Deadpool, or Harley Quinn plot manipulation for similar feats to Superboy Prime?
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Okay, so does She-Hulk have stronger Fourth Wall breaking abilities than other Marvel and DC Comics characters, except for Gwenpool?
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Umm maybe, since Julie Schwartz said everyone on earth prime has writer ability but only to some degree, but he still can alter right?Because he apparently cannot freely rewrite the script, for example.
Have we given She-Hulk, Deadpool, or Harley Quinn plot manipulation for similar feats to Superboy Prime?
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Stronger is a bit subjective when it comes to breaking the fourth wall since different users can use it in different ways, but overall yes she has better fourth wall breaking feats then characters like deadpool(as far as I’m aware)Okay, so does She-Hulk have stronger Fourth Wall breaking abilities than other Marvel and DC Comics characters, except for Gwenpool?
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So, should we make any change
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You’ll need to make a content revision thread first, especially since it involves plot manipulation which makes it automatically controversial according to our rules, and then you’ll need 3 staff agreements since it’s controversial, and then you can apply it
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I think that breaking the fourth wall is self-evident, but that we should wait and see regarding the plot manipulation, since it is too vague and unclear at this point.
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Didn't Julie Editor clearly say that Earth Prime people can affect reality with the plot they imagine, and they are metafiction/breaking the 4th wall?
Isn't Lucien Library is considered to actual story and what do you think of mxyz shouted to sealed off fifth dimension
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Well, he very likely meant that the plot manipulation applies when they are able to write stories from Earth-Prime, not when they are directly interacting with and being present in other worlds.
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Cary Bates can do it in both world, He plotted trickster comeback while he was in earth prime and he plotted the ending of The Trickster while he was in earth 1.Well, he very likely meant that the plot manipulation applies when they are able to write stories from Earth-Prime, not when they are directly interacting with and being present in other worlds.
You can read The Flash Vol 1 #228, you can see he typed a script another issue of flash comics (The Flash Vol 1 #203) in earth prime and he can plot with a thought in earth 1 like sbp did in Superman #36
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Oh yh I just checked sorry for that, here's the actual One
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My problem with this interpretation is that New God's or any God for that matter in the SOG are never portrayed to be close to monads, not only are they still dwarfed by multiple higher layers in the cosmology they're never even consistently portrayed to be r>f over humans, like a true r>f being should not have size or mass relative to the local multiverse or even the bleed. A true r>f being should not be forced to gather his lower emanations of energy from across the multiverse to regain his full power, something that should not have been necessary unless it wasn't an r>f being in the first place. And this is speaking strictly for SOG I haven't even started to talk about the other realms above cus they do have their own anti feats.
Tldr: we shouldn't just take statements at a whim simply because it favours our own higher interpretation especially from a book no one can read/verify and isn't even consistent with the main portrayal of Gods mainline
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Snip
Hey chat, fixing some profiles in DC. Anyone want to help here?
Fixing some mess of DC profiles
Noone bothered to fix profiles even after 4 months, mind you 4 months before it was accepted merge and Tier 0 Proposal yet noone even bothered to touch outdated pages. What a lazy supporters So premise of this thread should be pretty straightforward, since not so major changes, whatsover. The...
