• This forum is strictly intended to be used by members of the VS Battles wiki. Please only register if you have an autoconfirmed account there, as otherwise your registration will be rejected. If you have already registered once, do not do so again, and contact Antvasima if you encounter any problems.

    For instructions regarding the exact procedure to sign up to this forum, please click here.
  • We need Patreon donations for this forum to have all of its running costs financially secured.

    Community members who help us out will receive badges that give them several different benefits, including the removal of all advertisements in this forum, but donations from non-members are also extremely appreciated.

    Please click here for further information, or here to directly visit our Patreon donations page.
  • Please click here for information about a large petition to help children in need.

(GRACE) Sigh... here we go again. H1C Honkai.

Status
Not open for further replies.
Mbpoops

Mbpoops

He/Him
Messages
8,378
Reaction score
7,533
Sigh… here we go again… H1C Honkai..
Introduction
Hello again. I'm gonna keep this short as I am not good with introductions. This thread is to bring back Hoyoverse’s High 1-C rating and clearing up misconceptions with cosmological structures in hoyoverse, most importantly, the Sea of Quanta and Ether anchors.
This thread is centred around proving the significance of the Sea of quanta and ensuring that it qualifies for H1-C i.e significant 11 dimensional that was removed Via this crt.

Before we begin i would like to give a huge thanks to @Cipher72 for helping me with understanding higher cosmological structures and how the tiering system treats them and also helping review this crt and also a huge thanks to @Zanesucksatlife @PlungingThroughTime @PedjaTarzan and @Shiroiyo for helping find scans and evidence to make this possible seriously thank you all.

I sincerely ask that we stay on topic.

Part 1. Branes
The Sea of Quanta is a space in the hoyoverse that exists as a medium for infinite universes. These universes are referred to as bubbles and these bubbles are created through branes.
“As we all know, a three dimensional bubble has a spherical surface that is close to being two dimensional”
This proves 3 dimensional branes are embedded within higher dimensional bulks.
“These membranes are formed through fluctuations within ether and the sea of quanta is composed of and these membranes form bubble worlds”
Ether fluctuations create membranes that hold information and these membranes come together to form higher dimensional spaces.
It should also be noted that these bubble worlds have their own sets of dimensions and laws, each bubble differing from one another as those properties are separated by the bubbles and are inherited from the sea of quanta.
Now one might ask,
How are these dimensions significant?

Well we know the sea of quanta is infinite in size as it holds an infinite amount of universes. As shown before, these worlds choose their own dimensional inheritance from the sea of quanta meaning there could be a world with 4 dimensions, 5 dimensions 10 dimensions, anything up to 11 dimensions, as the sea of quanta only possess 11 dimensions (10 spatial + 1 temporal)

Part 2: Ether Anchor;
Misinterpretation and the functions of the SoQ
This part was written by @PlungingThroughTime so all the credit for this part goes to him. (seriously ur a legend)

Footnote at the top: Bubble Worlds and Universes are the exact same. Neither the term world or universe carries any actual size, they can be as large and as small as they want. In Arc City Lightbound they’re the size of Arc City. In Chapter 32 it’s as large as the moon. In Durandal’s VN the bubble world is as large as many solar systems.

The goal of this is to debunk the previous downgrade CRT that removed 11th Dimensionality from the Sea of Quanta while also clarifying the Sea of Quanta, Ether Anchors and how the SoQ actually works.

The nature of the worlds of Honkai
All stable, real worlds in Honkai Impact and Star Rail are 4D ones.

Small explanation: You can skip to the next subtitle if you understand the scan.

The constant relationship between speed, length / size (distances) and time (We also know time is asynchronous in Imaginary Space, both dimensions are equal in dimensionality and explicitly rival each other, both being chaotic dimensions too) is broken in the Sea of Quanta and Imaginary Space / the Tree.

There is only a single space (dimension) which they (the constant relationship between speed, distance and time) exist in at the same time. This is 4D space. (Basically said verbatim in the scan).

And even if you don’t believe this scan, if you follow my argument, you’ll come to understand 4D reality being the only ordered reality is supported by the source material.

The nature of the Sea of Quanta and the bubble worlds inside of it

Once the Sea of Quanta inherits a world from the Imaginary Tree, the world will slowly inherit the dimensions from the explicitly 11D SoQ. The previous downgrade argued that the Sea of Quanta's dimensions are actually compactified. They aren't. Here’s why:

It argued that the analogous distances between membranes meant the dimension was compactified and thus the whole Sea of Quanta is 5D. What it missed however was quite small:
In this scan it refers to the Ether Anchor Point being a special structure, or method, that allows membranes to turn into bubble universes by exchanging information.
Only analogous (the same) information is allowed to be projected from branes into these bubble worlds, creating an ordered, comprehensible world, such as Europe in the Durandal Visual Novel.

If you’re confused about the world projection, it’s further brought up in Chapter 32, End of the World. It mirrors the behaviour brought up in the above scan.

Projections are merely reflections of Hi3’s reality. Example:
In the bubble universe of Durandal’s visual novel the Europe of the bubble universe is a projection of Europe in Hi3’s Earth.
This is the exact same as the bubble world in Chapter 32, the bubble world of the moon reflects Hi3 Earth’s actual moon.

This means that Sea of Quanta’s dimensions are only ever compactified when there’s an Ether Anchor involved. Without an Ether Anchor’s interference the Sea of Quanta isn’t compactified. Simply put:

When a bubble world falls into the Sea of Quanta, it will begin to inherit dimensions from the Ether Bathtub (Sea of Quanta).
Upon this inheritance a bubble world with an Ether Anchor will compactify the dimension inherited. This allows for the bubble universe to stay ordered, retain the qualities of a 4th dimensional space and not collapse or become part of the Sea of Quanta.

Without an Ether Anchor a bubble world will slowly inherit dimensions and eventually decay into nothing: becoming part of the Sea of Quanta.

The inheritance of dimensions is heavily implied to be a slow process in the above, and even in the game. The bubble world on the moon persists for 50,000 years before eventually collapsing in the main story.
As 4D spaces are the only ones capable of holding order, a world becoming chaotic and decaying can be interpreted as it gaining or losing dimensions. This is the full behaviour of the Sea of Quanta. It’s an infinite (as it contains infinite bubble worlds) 11 dimensional bathtub with infinite bubble worlds ranging from 10D (any 11D bubble worlds are likely fully part of the SoQ) to 4D (bubble worlds with Ether Anchors like in Durandal’s VN) - These bubble worlds progressively gain dimensions throughout their stay in the Sea of Quanta.
In various events this is pictured as them degrading, or being eaten like in the Hi3 Event Shattered Dimensions. Specifically the Prologue and Keyankov’s Diary 11 and 8. The flying fish described are Quantum Shadows, and enemy from the Sea of Quanta. (Yes, this is canon, Captainverse takes place in the SoQ and also appears briefly in the main story in the moon arc).

Ether Anchors Q&A
The only question left is:
How does Ether Anchors compactify dimensions?
Ether Anchors are stated to be higher dimensional or contain dimensions numerous times. And even that the stable zones in the Sea of Quanta are ‘fixed by the Ether Anchor Point’.
They’re spatial constructs with higher-dimensions, capable of compacting other dimensions. As previously shown, the dimensions tied in a knot are because the Ether Anchor is compactifying them. It’s different dimensions of space wrapped together, all at the core of the Ether Anchor.
Click to expand...

Part 3: A Question
As we already established, the sea of quanta is an infinite space containing infinite universes each having their own dimensions and laws. The sea of quanta is infinitely bigger than any structure it contains which includes these bubble worlds and their infinite and/or compact dimensions. This then asks the question;
How are the dimensions of the sea of quanta compact if i’ts dimensions are infinitely bigger than the dimensions of space-times it contains? The dimensions of the sea of quanta would be stacking those compactified dimensions infinitely which… makes them infinite no? Aside from already being infinite of course.
Part 4. New standards.
It feels kind of scummy including this section, but recently, new standards were applied that help support this argument more. As we have already proven the sea of quanta is infinite and contains these 11 dimensions then all 11 dimensions of the sea of quanta must be infinite. The people who assert the dimensions of the sea of quanta are 2 entities that have lived an indefinite number of years within the sea of quanta, that being Schrodinger, and Franklin? (the question mark is a part of his name). These are both quantum entities with Schrodinger herself losing her physical form from being trapped in the sea of quanta for such a long time so these beings should qualify as reliable sources about the sea of quanta’s dimensionality. It was also Schrodinger who described how branes and bubble worlds worked in the sea of quanta though she was using a fake persona called “Iron mask” to hide her identity.

Conclusion
Since we have proven that the sea of quanta is significant 11D the sea of quanta’s rating and anyone scaling to the Sea of Quanta (no one) will be moved to High-1C. You might be wondering, “what's the point in this thread if seemingly no one scales to the upgrade”? Well there is one structure that gets affected by this other than the sea, the Imaginary Tree.

The Imaginary Tree and the Sea of Quanta are higher dimensional structures that rival each other. That is to say that the Imaginary Tree and the sea of quanta scale the same. The Imaginary Tree is also said to be the highest transfinite plane, being infinite in a transfinite sense which would make it’s infinity bigger than that of the already infinite sea of quanta. (Note. i am not saying this qualifies the tree for a higher tier). The tree scaling to the sea would mean that anyone who scales to the tree also scales to this, which would affect these characters
Herrscher of Finality Kiana
Kevin Kaslana
Herscher of Origin Mei
Herrscher of Truth Bronya
Unfortunately Yog sothoth
And Aeons. (subsequently irontomb, coreflame burst Phainon, and Cyrene along with the cyrene amped characters)
Aeons will lose their 11D higher dimensional existence, as it will become the full rating of high 1-C, Kiana will keep her 12D higher dimensional existence in her cocoon of finality key. And Honkai energy will lose it’s low 1-C extra dimensional range and be changed to the full rating of High 1-C.

Thank you for your time everyone, this has been a long time in the making.

Staff votes
Agree: @Reiner04 @Oblivion_Of_The_Endless @Planck69 @Vietthai96
@Qawsedf234 (agrees with Low 1-C possibly H1C)
Neutral:
Disagree:
 
Last edited:
Another 15 pages Honkai CRT?
You got me.
b68a9e6d026e.gif
 
Ngl if Captainverse becomes canon here, I'm making 1-A keys for all HI3 characters just for the fun of it (albeit non-combat applicable) since Ai-chan said in a literal way that all HI3 characters exist in the real world so lol

But yeah that aside, I agree with High 1-C
 
I did discuss the potential of dimensions being compactified at the anchors with plunging before. Not necessarily against it as a concept, ye.

Woulda preferred to do this after the scaling is figured out since most of those don’t even touch anything beyond 4D but it’s aigh for the moment.
 
SuperNova55555 said:
I did discuss the potential of dimensions being compactified at the anchors with plunging before. Not necessarily against it as a concept, ye.

Woulda preferred to do this after the scaling is figured out since most of those don’t even touch anything beyond 4D but it’s aigh for the moment.
Click to expand...
Specifically aeons but yuh most characters do not scale to the cosmology
 
Reiner04 said:
Was asked to bother some staff about this thread.
Click to expand...
Well, the main issue with this thread is that the franchise uses two forms of M-Theory that are not entirely compatible with each other. This part:
“These membranes are formed through fluctuations within ether and the sea of quanta is composed of and these membranes form bubble worlds”
Ether fluctuations create membranes that hold information and these membranes come together to form higher dimensional spaces.
It should also be noted that these bubble worlds have their own sets of dimensions and laws, each bubble differing from one another as those properties are separated by the bubbles and are inherited from the sea of quanta.
Click to expand...
It talking about Brane and Bulk spaces which would be a significant 11-D space, while this scan is explicitly talking about this cosmology which is just Tier 2. In fact OP that thing you linked uses compacted dimensions in multiple cases:
Their setup is extremely simple since they consider a flat (4+n)-dimensional spacetime, thus with n compact extra dimensions with, for simplicity, a torus topology and a common size R. From the fundamental (Planck) (4 + n)-dimensional mass M∗, which embodies the coupling of gravity to matter from the (4+n)-dimensional point of view, one can deduce the effective fourdimensional Planck mass MP, either by integrating the Einstein-Hilbert action over the extra dimensions, or by using directly Gauss’ theorem. One then finds
Click to expand...
Altough the idea in itself is not completely new1), the fact that it might be connected to recent string theory developments has suscitated a renewed interest. In this respect, an inspiring input has been the model suggested by Horava and Witten 2), sometimes dubbed M-theory, which describes the low energy effective theory corresponding to the strong coupling limit of E8 × E8 heterotic string theory. This model is associated with an eleven-dimensional bulk spacetime with 11-dimensional supergravity, the eleventh dimension being compactified via a Z2 orbifold symmetry. The two fixed points of the orbifold symmetry define two 10-dimensional spacetime boundaries, or 9-branes, on which the gauge groups are defined. Starting from this configuration, one can distinguish three types of spatial dimensions: the orbifold dimension, three large dimensions corresponding to the ordinary spatial directions and finally six additional dimensions, which can be compactified in the usual KaluzaKlein way. It turns out that the orbifold dimension might be larger than the six Kaluza-Klein extra dimensions, resulting in an intermediary picture with a fivedimensional spacetime, two boundary 3-branes, one of which could be our universe, and a “large” extra-dimension. This model provides the motivating framework for many of the brane cosmological models.
Click to expand...
So the thing is ultimately:
  • Does this series uses M-Theory -> Yes
  • Does this series recognize that strings are a thing -> Yes
  • Does this series recognize Branes as a thing -> Yes
  • Does this series recognize that Branes are within larger branes in the bulk space -> No
  • Does this series state there is a 10-D Brane explictly -> No
Mbpoops said:
It feels kind of scummy including this section, but recently, new standards were applied that help support this argument more. As we have already proven the sea of quanta is infinite and contains these 11 dimensions then all 11 dimensions of the sea of quanta must be infinite. The people who assert the dimensions of the sea of quanta are 2 entities that have lived an indefinite number of years within the sea of quanta, that being Schrodinger, and Franklin? (the question mark is a part of his name). These are both quantum entities with Schrodinger herself losing her physical form from being trapped in the sea of quanta for such a long time so these beings should qualify as reliable sources about the sea of quanta’s dimensionality. It was also Schrodinger who described how branes and bubble worlds worked in the sea of quanta though she was using a fake persona called “Iron mask” to hide her identity.
Click to expand...
The main issue here is this part
For indexing purposes, the cosmological structures in a work are assumed to be the bare minimum size required to adhere to both the source material and the tiering system
Click to expand...
Your source material uses a cosmology that relies on string dimensions. That rule is about when the cosmology isn't explicitly defined under a known model like with Honkai.

For now, I can understand an argument for an 11D Bulk space, but most of what I see can be accomplished by a Randall-Sundrum 5D Cosmology since you get seperate 4D Membranes within a 5D Bulk with 6+ Compacted string dimensions.

So list me as disagreeing, or at least, something like "Low 1-C, possibly High 1-C".
 
Qawsedf234 said:
Well, the main issue with this thread is that the franchise uses two forms of M-Theory that are not entirely compatible with each other. This part:

It talking about Brane and Bulk spaces which would be a significant 11-D space, while this scan is explicitly talking about this cosmology which is just Tier 2. In fact OP that thing you linked uses compacted dimensions in multiple cases:


So the thing is ultimately:
  • Does this series uses M-Theory -> Yes
  • Does this series recognize that strings are a thing -> Yes
  • Does this series recognize Branes as a thing -> Yes
  • Does this series recognize that Branes are within larger branes in the bulk space -> No
  • Does this series state there is a 10-D Brane explictly -> No

The main issue here is this part

Your source material uses a cosmology that relies on string dimensions. That rule is about when the cosmology isn't explicitly defined under a known model like with Honkai.

For now, I can understand an argument for an 11D Bulk space, but most of what I see can be accomplished by a Randall-Sundrum 5D Cosmology since you get seperate 4D Membranes within a 5D Bulk with 6+ Compacted string dimensions.

So list me as disagreeing, or at least, something like "Low 1-C, possibly High 1-C".
Click to expand...
why did you quote requirement for at least universe size requirement when soq is explicitly infinite? also i think the fact each bubble contains up to 7 dimensions even if curled makes SoQ itself a significant 11D due to holding infinite of those dimensions since i genuenly remember reiner telling this to me as as well
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Similar threads

Weaver261
  • Locked
Chaotic Honkai Verse Upgrade (1-A & L1-A)
18 19 20
Replies
784
Views
46K
Huesito88
Huesito88
SuperNova55555
  • Locked
(ACCEPTED) Sliming all Honkai Scaling (GONE BRUTAL)
13 14 15
Replies
591
Views
45K
Emirp sumitpo
Emirp sumitpo
Voidnether
  • Locked
Honkai Cosmology Rework
10 11 12
Replies
461
Views
33K
Vietthai96
Vietthai96
PlungingThroughTime
  • Locked
Hi3 scaling chain rework.
2
Replies
60
Views
3K
PlungingThroughTime
PlungingThroughTime
Shiroiyo
Yet another Hoyoverse cosmology downgrade
5 6 7
Replies
277
Views
28K
KirbyFan03
KirbyFan03
Back
Top