Zeno's existence erasure resistance removal

[TheGreatJedi13]

DT isn't the supreme authority over matters, his word isn't standards.
It needs to be proven that Zeno can be this selective with his abilities for this to even make sense.

He isn't, but the idea that we make Zeno performing a suicidal move and resisting himself is honestly a really large leap of logic and reasonability.

All we know from that scene is that Zeno became angry with the unsightly universe

yet we can also see Zeno being able to erase universes and their contents without using the blast. So that Blast implies something else
not a suicidal move

 

[Ultimuru]

Okay and how do you prove he decided a complete nuke and at the same was precise enough to not affect himself when he was erasing the very space he was on? Just saying precise isn't enough when nothing remotely close was implied in the scene.

What do you mean "precise enough to not nuke himself"? Excluding yourself from your own technique seems to be way easier than erasing a single person and not everything around them

 

[Gp972]

From what i see, it's potrayed as an outlier compared to everything else in verse

Can erase immortals like zamasu

Can erase something regardless if he's near it

And from i remember from dbs and currently know, he isn't potrayed as a "physical" fighter

It's not shown as either ki or like hakai's energy

Everyone in Dragon Ball uses ki.

Zeno has to get his energy from somewhere, and if it's magic or something else, the story will say so.

 

[TheGreatJedi13]

Okay and how do you prove he decided a complete nuke and at the same was precise enough to not affect himself when he was erasing the very space he was on? Just saying precise isn't enough when nothing remotely close was implied in the scene.

I don't see why this is something we can prove when reasonability and Zeno's character isn't the type to include himself, nor attempts to attack himself just because he is angry at an unsightly universe.

You should be the one proving why he would perform an attack that would also affect himself, to argue why he would have resistance when a simple explanation that doesn't break his character exists.

Anyway, I agree with the CRT

 

[Gp972]

Its a bad comparison. Goku is a trained fighter and his body is used to so much power (As we could see with Kaioken, if he pushes his body further his muscles can't take it). Zeno on the other hand despite of being described as "the strongest" still couldn't keep up with watching Goku's fights. Which shouldn't happen as perception speed scales to normaln speed and in DB speed increases with power.

My headcanon but I think everyone call Zeno the strongest not because of his stats, but because his erasure works like hakai on steroids and can poof anyone. Like level 1 character on game server who have mod and can ban anyone no matter what level they have.

He's not a fighter. But that's a feat of endurance, not skill. Besides, his low perception speed proves nothing; he's still stronger than Goku in the Namek saga, and furthermore Fighters and characters in DB can focus their training on a specific area, like Burter on his speed and Recoome on his stamina/endurance

 

[Gp972]

He's not a fighter. But that's a feat of endurance, not skill. Besides, his low perception speed proves nothing; he's still stronger than Goku in the Namek saga, and furthermore Fighters and characters in DB can focus their training on a specific area, like Burter on his speed and Recoome on his stamina/endurance

If Zeno were so physically weak, he would have been killed already.

 

[CryoTheMayo]

Came back, read most of the new posts. Pretty clear you guys have nothing much to say. So I'll just wait on some staff responses.

Essentially the basis here is that the side agreeing with the thread seem to believe it's 'illogical' for Zeno to expose himself to his own power because he'd have to 'tank it' or whatever. When in reality the blast literally serves zero threat to himself and his act of destroying the timeline required very little effort on his part. So there is nothing 'illogical' about Zeno exposing himself to a power he himself isn't harmed by. Along with that we literally see his body is being consumed by it. Which, mind you, is backed by the manga depiction as well.

Along with that, the entire argument over whether Zeno uses Ki is ultimately nonsense. Gods in Super use God Ki. Zeno is a God. There is no mention of his power being something else. So we'd just assume he uses God Ki. Because that's the power system Gods use.

 

[Ultimuru]

Came back, read most of the new posts. Pretty clear you guys have nothing much to say. So I'll just wait on some staff responses.

Essentially the basis here is that the side agreeing with the thread seem to believe it's 'illogical' for Zeno to expose himself to his own power because he'd have to 'tank it' or whatever. When in reality the blast literally serves zero threat to himself and his act of destroying the timeline required very little effort on his part. So there is nothing 'illogical' about Zeno exposing himself to a power he himself isn't harmed by. Along with that we literally see his body is being consumed by it. Which, mind you, is backed by the manga depiction as well.

Along with that, the entire argument over whether Zeno uses Ki is ultimately nonsense. Gods in Super use God Ki. Zeno is a God. There is no mention of his power being something else. So we'd just assume he uses God Ki. Because that's the power system Gods use.

What is your proof that this "blast" serves as anything other than just a sign of him using his power? Because in the ToP there was no such things, glow was way smaller, nothing started to spreading and yet erasure always was successful.

 

[Pepsimanslover]

He isn't, but the idea that we make Zeno performing a suicidal move and resisting himself is honestly a really large leap of logic and reasonability.

All we know from that scene is that Zeno became angry with the unsightly universe

yet we can also see Zeno being able to erase universes and their contents without using the blast. So that Blast implies something else
not a suicidal move

The premise for it to be suicidal already assumes he doesn't resist it, you need to prove he doesn't resist it in the first place instead of Zeno apparently having ultra control to the extent he won't erase himself but somehow will accidentally erase his allies.

He expresses the EE in the form of a blast, the blast encompasses him, he still exists, therefore he resists is the more logical approach rather than "He has supreme control over this ability because he once he used a specific form of it instead of the nuke like blast".

 

[Gp972]

What is your proof that this "blast" serves as anything other than just a sign of him using his power? Because in the ToP there was no such things, glow was way smaller, nothing started to spreading and yet erasure always was successful.

He directed the ki towards the universes; it wasn't omnidirectional because otherwise it would have erased the entire Multiverse and the tournament.

 

[CryoTheMayo]

What is your proof that this "blast" serves as anything other than just a sign of him using his power? Because in the ToP there was no such things, glow was way smaller, nothing started to spreading and yet erasure always was successful.

You keep demanding proof. But you aren't explaining why Zeno being consumed by the light of his own erasing power isn't evidence of EE Resistance. Or that his body producing and, as a result being exposed to, that EE power wouldn't inherently grant him EE resistance. You are trying to associate one feat with a bunch of other use cases of the ability. When the entire feat in question is the one where he is consumed by his own blast. Across multiple continuities.

I have shown Zeno's body being inside of the blast. Show proof he wasn't inside the blast.

 

[Ultimuru]

He directed the ki towards the universes; it wasn't omnidirectional because otherwise it would have erased the entire Multiverse and the tournament.

I don't see any "direction" there tho.

 

[TheGreatJedi13]

The premise for it to be suicidal already assumes he doesn't resist it, you need to prove he doesn't resist it in the first place instead of Zeno apparently having ultra control to the extent he won't erase himself but somehow will accidentally erase his allies.

His allies?
Goku and the gang aren't his allies there, and that Zeno doesn't know Goku.

He literally said
All of existence. go away
, targeting Zamasu who basically became Omnipresent and therefore all of it

His Beam is aimed in front of him if he is engulfed as you said his sillouthe wouldn't be showing when Goku looked back
yet it shows

 

[Ultimuru]

You keep demanding proof. But you aren't explaining why Zeno being consumed by the light of his own erasing power isn't evidence of EE Resistance. Or that his body producing and, as a result being exposed to, that EE power wouldn't inherently grant him EE resistance. You are trying to associate one feat with a bunch of other use cases of the ability. When the entire feat in question is the one where he is consumed by his own blast. Across multiple continuities.

I have shown Zeno's body being inside of the blast. Show proof he wasn't inside the blast.

I already explained many times. Zeno has shown he can erase specific things he wants. Be it specific universe or even specific person. If he can erase frost and exclude everything around him it means this power doesn't work as a nuke. Zeno can select which things are affected or not.

Just like Zeno had his hands covered in light when he was erasing universes and he didn't lost them. Not because he tanked own erasure, but because he and his hands are not the target.

And I still believe that light does nothing because when universes are erased it happens instantly as if someone turned off TV. We don't see blast spreading everywhere. Process looks exactly the same in both Zamasu's case and Erasing universes

Anyway. I have nothing to add. Anything further will be only repeating myself. So I'll now wait for mods

 

[Pepsimanslover]

His allies?
Goku and the gang aren't his allies there, and that Zeno doesn't know Goku.

He literally said
All of existence. go away
, targeting Zamasu who basically became Omnipresent and therefore all of it

His Beam is aimed in front of him if he is engulfed as you said his sillouthe wouldn't be showing when Goku looked back
yet it shows

Yeah I must've been under hypnosis for that mishap, yeesh.

His Beam is aimed in front of him if he is engulfed as you said his sillouthe wouldn't be showing when Goku looked back
yet it shows

His silhouette is showing because he didn't get erased. The blast did engulf him because otherwise the space he's occupying wouldn't have gotten erased.

 

[Gp972]

His allies?
Goku and the gang aren't his allies there, and that Zeno doesn't know Goku.

He literally said
All of existence. go away
, targeting Zamasu who basically became Omnipresent and therefore all of it

His Beam is aimed in front of him if he is engulfed as you said his sillouthe wouldn't be showing when Goku looked back
yet it shows

If he is omnipresent and everywhere, then Zeno had to erase everything around him and withstand his own attack

 

[RoninSlayer200]

What do you mean "precise enough to not nuke himself"? Excluding yourself from your own technique seems to be way easier than erasing a single person and not everything around them

Wdym "erasing a single person and not everything around them"? What does this mean? Single person who?

It's easier, can you even comprehend the the specific control you need to somehow destroy entire space time including everything which is gazillion over gazillion people and somehow be able to not target yourself when you are also among the entire space you are erasing?

How did Zeno do that? What technique he used it? What is the mechanism of this specific move? None of it explained by you. You are just trying to say "He's just good at it" and expect people to accept it.

 

[CryoTheMayo]

I already explained many times. Zeno has shown he can erase specific things he wants. Be it specific universe or even specific person. If he can erase frost and exclude everything around him it means this power doesn't work as a nuke. Zeno can select which things are affected or not.

All of that is utterly irrelevant to the actual feat used to justify Zeno's EE Resistance.

Just like Zeno had his hands covered in light when he was erasing universes and he didn't lost them. Not because he tanked own erasure, but because he and his hands are not the target.

You just gave a justification for why Zeno would have EE Resistance.

And I still believe that light does nothing because when universes are erased it happens instantly as if someone turned off TV. We don't see blast spreading everywhere. Process looks exactly the same in both Zamasu's case and Erasing universes

You made this CRT and didn't know the light expands as the world is erased? Even in your own example of 'erasing universes' you can see light covering people's bodies and the universes before they're erased. The light very clearly is what erases them.

 

[Gp972]

I already explained many times. Zeno has shown he can erase specific things he wants. Be it specific universe or even specific person. If he can erase frost and exclude everything around him it means this power doesn't work as a nuke. Zeno can select which things are affected or not.

Yes, but in the context of the scene and how the characters reacted, then it was a nuke.

Just like Zeno had his hands covered in light when he was erasing universes and he didn't lost them. Not because he tanked own erasure, but because he and his hands are not the target.

???

And I still believe that light does nothing because when universes are erased it happens instantly as if someone turned off TV. We don't see blast spreading everywhere. Process looks exactly the same in both Zamasu's case and Erasing universes

It takes a bit, in fact you can see when it deletes Forst

 

[Killerdrone123]

I already explained many times. Zeno has shown he can erase specific things he wants. Be it specific universe or even specific person. If he can erase frost and exclude everything around him it means this power doesn't work as a nuke. Zeno can select which things are affected or not.

Just like Zeno had his hands covered in light when he was erasing universes and he didn't lost them. Not because he tanked own erasure, but because he and his hands are not the target.

I hope you realise a single ability can have different ways to be delivered zeno can use his ee as nuke or he can target specific things,as shown above in the manga panel zeno used an ee nuke to erase clones of fusion zamasu in manga the IZ going to become timeline shenenigans didn't even happen we clearly see his ee engulfing zamasus cones and leading to there erasure

 

[WAAAAAAAAAAAAAARGH]

Goku never seen Zeno's erasing things before. It's logical that he tried to not risk anything and run away. Especially that Mai was around them and nobody wanted her to get hurt. And Zamasu at that point became the world itself so it equals.

Goku's a fighter, he should obviously have the intuition to know that something dangerous is coming, even when he can't sense it (such as the Beerus fight). We also know that he's great at judging people's intentions (such as his first meeting with Trunks or Broly). There's little reason to not trust Goku's assessment of the situation, especially from someone as to the point as Zeno.
And it makes no real sense for the narrative intention of the scene to be that "Nobody will actually get hurt, but just to be sure!" rather than "Zeno is a powerful God that doesn't care who gets hurt"

Likewise, Shin and Gowasu are there too, and agree with Goku that everyone, including them, should leave. Plus, stuff that clearly aren't Zamasu, like the planet they're standing on, got destroyed too.

So that point doesn't really hold up to me.

[Edit:
I also remembered the Manga, where they make it pretty clear that they were gonna die to the blast too, 100%]

And the point about it being a technique with more doesn't really change anything, my man.
The energy still comes from Zeno in the first place. Before it can be used on someone else, it has to start from inside him amyways.

(I'm also pretty sure Hakai can be used from a distance. Doesn't Sindri erase a city while in the air?)

 

[Tuxidoe_Redo]

Not that I agree with the thread, but I'm pretty sure we don't give characters resistance for said reasons.

Same way no character with a passive aura has resistance to its effects unless explicitely shown.

Their aura literally passively erases stuff. Like we saw Frieza shooting a ki at Toppo, I dont get why Zeno should be a special case?

Also I dont like the argument of "its just visuals that he does omnidirectional blast", no basis for it

 

[CryoTheMayo]

(I'm also pretty sure Hakai can be used from a distance. Doesn't Sindri erase a city while in the air?)

Yes. Hakai has many different applications. It can be used to target individuals, target large areas, erase entire universes (based on statements by GoDs), used to create a field of erasing energy like the Hakai aura, shot as projectiles, etc.

 

[Gp972]

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Zeno is declared invincible, and if he were so weak and unable to tank a Hakai or his erasure, any rebel god could erase him by attacking him by surprise because of his speed is not that great

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

I disagree FRA

 

[Qawsedf234]

In both the anime and Manga the entire timeline was shown to be destroyed. The level of selective application you'd need to destroyed a hypertimeline while leaving yourself alive is something that I don't see Zeno possessing.

So I disagree with the thread. The more logical approach is that he just erased everything but was to durable for his ability to work on himself.

 

[Ultimuru]

All of that is utterly irrelevant to the actual feat used to justify Zeno's EE Resistance.

You just gave a justification for why Zeno would have EE Resistance.

You made this CRT and didn't know the light expands as the world is erased? Even in your own example of 'erasing universes' you can see light covering people's bodies and the universes before they're erased. The light very clearly is what erases them.

Brother you don't understand what I am trying to say. Do I really have to show you frame by frame that the light which encompasses erased Zamasu doesn't come from where Zeno is standing but from every other direction? If the light is what erases things we would see light spreading. Not coming from each side.

Zamasu's face on the middle is the earth. Place where Zeno stands and place where your "blast" starts growing in every direction. Then we see energy rings coming IN EARTH'S DIRECTION and after that light from corners swallowing everything.

If everything would be coming out of the light that Zeno's hands produces, the light would be spreading from starting point. But instead everything is erased at once and light on his hands doesn't seem to play any role in that. It's just a sign of activation of ability.

On ToP we saw the same thing. Light from Zeno's hands didn't had to travel. Didn't had to hit the target. He remotely erased the universe. Which means the light coming from his hands has nothing to do with erasure.

 

[Gp972]

Zeno speed/Power ≈ Goku kkx10 > Goku base pre top > Sidra's Hakai

Goku kkx10 > Golden Frieza pre top > Sidra's hakai

 

[Gp972]

Even if Zeno didn't tank his own attack, it still ranks above Hakai due to speed ≈ power

 

[UnoRebaixadO]

It doesn't make sense, Zeno is clearly covered by his own light.

To say it's just a "visual effect" is nonsense.

 

[Dagoth_OwO]

Zamasu's face on the middle is the earth. Place where Zeno stands and place where your "blast" starts growing in every direction. Then we see energy rings coming IN EARTH'S DIRECTION and after that light from corners swallowing everything.

And then the light covers the entire screen including Zamasu's face in the middle which is exactly where Zeno is. That's like very clear on-screen footage of Zeno getting covered in his own EE

 

[AwkguyDB]

disagree fra

 

[Mbpoops]

Disagree

 

[CelestialVortex01]

If everything would be coming out of the light that Zeno's hands produces, the light would be spreading from starting point.

sure I'm gonna play it your way then



We see zeno actively engulfing/encompassing the space surrouding him with his EE, there frame by frame, and we see it from different angles too, and zeno is literally caught in the CENTER of the blast, which is by logic the spot where the EE is the most lethal/threatening in

But instead everything is erased at once and light on his hands doesn't seem to play any role in that. It's just a sign of activation of ability.

true, but on the other hand, in the 10th pic we literally see zamasu's face surrounded/glowing by the same EE (which keep in mind wasn't part of zamasu or anything since it wasn't there when his merging began), that zeno activated showing that it actually started from earth, and it was just super fast that it then engulfed everything else almost instantly

On ToP we saw the same thing. Light from Zeno's hands didn't had to travel. Didn't had to hit the target. He remotely erased the universe. Which means the light coming from his hands has nothing to do with erasure.

then this just proves that it can have multiple applications, either lock onto a target, or simply engulf everything at once, we literally see the same thing with hakai, when beerus hakai'd zamasu specifically, and when toppo hakai'd frieza and the hakai sphere kept expanding till it warped the WoV itself


I'm genuinely not seeing how this helps your case in any way

Which means the light coming from his hands has nothing to do with erasure.

lmfao okay

I don't think there is a way it could get any more blatant than this

Anyway, I disagree FRA

 

[Ferno1234]

any rebel god could erase him by attacking him by surprise because of his speed is not that great

That leads into speculation, it could be that his guards are just Op, or that no one would get a chance to attack him before getting erased

 

[Gp972]

That leads into speculation, it could be that his guards are just Op, or that no one would get a chance to attack him before getting erased

Even so, via scaling surpasses hakai

 

[Mbpoops]

i mean zeno doesnt seem worried about himself while casually erasing the timeline and like shown by @CelestialVortex01 hes engulfed by his own light so if your issue was the light then there you go.

 

[Ferno1234]

then this just proves that it can have multiple applications, either lock onto a target, or simply engulf everything at once, we literally see the same thing with hakai, when beerus hakai'd zamasu specifically, and when toppo hakai'd frieza and the hakai sphere kept expanding till it warped the WoV itself

The applications aren't relevant here nor is anyone disagreeing with that point, and it definitely encompassed the timeline, but why exactly would he include himself if he can selectively choose specific individuals and the entire universe where they are from even while being completely outside said universe?

The light can be merely a visual representation of how the erasure works without being a 1 to 1 of how exactly it is proceeding

 

[Ultimuru]

i mean zeno doesnt seem worried about himself while casually erasing the timeline and like shown by @CelestialVortex01 hes engulfed by his own light so if your issue was the light then there you go.

My main issue is that I don't believe Zeno would be targeted by his own ability and I see it as kinda hilarious especially when we know he can select what he want and don't want to erase. If his power would be like a nuke and selection wouldn't be possible, I wouldn't have a single issue with Zeno getting resistance to it. But we see that it doesn't work like that and Zeno can decide.

 

[Gp972]

Mi principal problema es que no creo que Zeno sea blanco de su propia habilidad, y me parece bastante gracioso, sobre todo sabiendo que puede elegir qué borrar y qué no. Si su poder fuera como una bomba nuclear y no pudiera elegir, no tendría ningún problema con que Zeno desarrollara resistencia. Pero vemos que no funciona así y que Zeno puede decidir.

SYes, but Zeno didn't decide here.