General DC Comics Discussion Thread

[KirbyFan03]

That doesn’t make sense no matter how you look at it

Mxy shat his pants as soon as SIGNS of Master Txyz showed up (time being messed up) and DIPPED

The Imp described being a 1 up in dimensions as being more evolved and advanced, like how a human is more advanced than a bear or caveman but that still doesn't mean the human shouldn't be afraid of them

While I think this is the writer not knowing how Mxy fully works I think the writer was just typing shi to hype up a villain

 

[AndrewBennet]

That doesn’t make sense no matter how you look at it

Mxy is a gag character which shouldnt be taken seriously . Even the rules of saying his name backwards is self imposition

 

[AndrewBennet]

merge the Lucifer and Great Darkness profiles then we are good

He would as per demattis

 

[Wirtzwest]

Looking again at the Flash series, I realized that we had misunderstood the Gallery of Moments. Are we sure that it is truly located beyond the Source Wall or rather in a metaphysical layer within the Multiverse, beneath time and space?

It is a metaphysical layer within the multiverse beneath space time the deepchange is the one located beyond the source wall.

 

[Elizio33]

It is a metaphysical layer within the multiverse beneath space time the deepchange is the one located beyond the source wall.

Makes sense. This would downgrade the Speed Force, but its reaches would still be omniversal since it touches every Multiverse within the Greater Omniverse.

 

[Osemere]

Check ts

SSJ3 Goku (Manga) vs Superman (New 52)| 0-0-0

• SBA • Speed Equalized • Goku is (> 1.053 KiloFoe) • Superman is (> 2.747 KiloFoe) Goku: Superman: Inconclusive:

vsbattles.com

 

[Elizio33]

Makes sense. This would downgrade the Speed Force, but its reaches would still be omniversal since it touches every Multiverse within the Greater Omniverse.

According to our DC Cosmology blog, Wally West was apparently able to interact with the comic book panel from the Gallery of Moments. However, nothing in these scans actually suggests any R>F transcendence. Rather, Wally West sees people and events in the Gallery of Moments in a way that is detached from normal reality, like snapshots or conceptual frames. Not necessarily in the same level as fiction.

 

[Antvasima]

Makes sense. This would downgrade the Speed Force, but its reaches would still be omniversal since it touches every Multiverse within the Greater Omniverse.

So what is your current cosmology tiering suggestion then?

 

[Wirtzwest]

According to our DC Cosmology blog, Wally West was apparently able to interact with the comic book panel from the Gallery of Moments. However, nothing in these scans actually suggests any R>F transcendence. Rather, Wally West sees people and events in the Gallery of Moments in a way that is detached from normal reality, like snapshots or conceptual frames. Not necessarily in the same level as fiction.

We need to be clear that when spurrier was writing at the time he did not account for the map. The gallery is clearly beyond space time and described as pure serenity.Measurement, memory and movement are all untrustworthy as they are just illusions of now(issue #4). So it's just not being detached from normal reality. In issue #11 spurrier talks about emanations of emanations whose is being emanated by the deep change which lies outside the source wall. This is why l said the gallery is not beyond the source wall rather somewhere within the multiverse especially beyond the material plane.

 

[Elizio33]

We need to be clear that when spurrier was writing at the time he did not account for the map. The gallery is clearly beyond space time and described as pure serenity.Measurement, memory and movement are all untrustworthy as they are just illusions of now(issue #4). So it's just not being detached from normal reality. In issue #11 spurrier talks about emanations of emanations whose is being emanated by the deep change which lies outside the source wall. This is why l said the gallery is not beyond the source wall rather somewhere within the multiverse especially beyond the material plane.

Yeah, but the Gallery has still no real R>F transcendence.

 

[Elizio33]

So what is your current cosmology tiering suggestion then?

The Speed Force permeates every layer of the Divine Continuum and interacts with Hypertime and the Timestream. While it exists vastly beyond and is not bound by the material planes, extending even into higher metaphysical and archetypal realms of the Multiverse, it does not transcend or govern them in the same way it influences the material planes. So maybe 1-A instead with higher ranges.

 

[Antvasima]

The Speed Force permeates every layer of the Divine Continuum and interacts with Hypertime and the Timestream. While it exists vastly beyond and is not bound by the material planes, extending even into higher metaphysical and archetypal realms of the Multiverse, it does not transcend or govern them in the same way it influences the material planes. So maybe 1-A instead with higher ranges.

Okay. That seems good to me then. However, the Flash characters likely need to be rescaled accordingly.

 

[Wirtzwest]

Yeah, but the Gallery has still no real R>F transcendence.

It actually does it is described as being the deepest layer and wally was able to interact with the bubbles which he could not perceive before getting there. The confusion comes with wether it fits with our knowledge of the Morrison map, since some others have argued it lies outside the multiverse or within it but l go with the former. Since for the later some say it is the deepest version of the multiverse.

 

[GeneralSol16]

Okay. That seems good to me then. However, the Flash characters likely need to be rescaled accordingly.

The Flashes don't scale to it at all, maybe when they absorb it or something but that's kinda weird based on how Bart performed against Prime.

 

[AndrewBennet]

The Speed Force permeates every layer of the Divine Continuum and interacts with Hypertime and the Timestream. While it exists vastly beyond and is not bound by the material planes, extending even into higher metaphysical and archetypal realms of the Multiverse, it does not transcend or govern them in the same way it influences the material planes. So maybe 1-A instead with higher ranges.

Where does Deep change scale

 

[Elizio33]

Where does Deep change scale

The Deep Change scale to the Light of Creation since they are synonymous.

 

[DollaZoon60097]

Has anyone here seen or remembers the specific comic issue where Mister Mxyzptlk goes to the Overvoid? I can't remember it clearly, but there was a page that specifically mentioned the word "Overvoid" as Mister Mxyzptlk traveled into it .

 

[Elizio33]

Has anyone here seen or remembers the specific comic issue where Mister Mxyzptlk goes to the Overvoid? I can't remember it clearly, but there was a page that specifically mentioned the word "Overvoid" as Mister Mxyzptlk traveled into it .

Is this from World’s Funniest, where Mister Mxyzptlk destroys the Multiverse, leaving only a white void? If so, it is not necessarily the Overvoid.

 

[KirbyFan03]

Has anyone here seen or remembers the specific comic issue where Mister Mxyzptlk goes to the Overvoid? I can't remember it clearly, but there was a page that specifically mentioned the word "Overvoid" as Mister Mxyzptlk traveled into it .

There's multiple white voids in DC. That weird place Wonder Woman went in Valhalla everytime she died, or the void of voids as iirc the overvoid as a concept irl hasn't even existed yet

 

[KirbyFan03]

If there's one thing I hate about myself it's the fact i can't stick to one thing.... prepare to see an overall God Physiology thread for DC Gods (Marvel can't have all the good stuff with pages leading into pages....)

 

[Antvasima]

@Elizio33

So will something be done to modify our DC Comics cosmology?

 

[Elizio33]

@Elizio33

So will something be done to modify our DC Comics cosmology?

Yes, I am currently making the changes on my sandbox.

 

[KirbyFan03]

This is strictly pertaining to the PHYSICAL WORLD of DC Comics, more importantly COIE or Pre Crisis Cosmology

Swamp Thing gets teleported to a place in the physical world where reality unfolds in shapes beyond mathematics (Swamp Thing 1982 #46). This place is the Monitor Satellite, Monitor Satellite exists in all times, places and dimensions and between all time and space (COIE #2 & #3)

Here's my draft, but i need to update it with what i have suggested here. I started a while ago, with old ideas, so there are a lot of things to change.

Elizio33/Sandbox12

vsbattles.fandom.com

 

[KirbyFan03]

This is strictly pertaining to the PHYSICAL WORLD of DC Comics, more importantly COIE or Pre Crisis Cosmology

Swamp Thing gets teleported to a place in the physical world where reality unfolds in shapes beyond mathematics (Swamp Thing 1982 #46). This place is the Monitor Satellite, Monitor Satellite exists in all times, places and dimensions and between all time and space (COIE #2 & #3)

I also direct you to This amazing thread that details Pre Crisis Cosmology rather expertly id say

 

[KirbyFan03]

Also on a related note to DC... the Devilance stuff, must I wait for staff to post it or me, and if it is me how do I do it because I have no idea

 

[Rgerdeena]

Also on a related note to DC... the Devilance stuff, must I wait for staff to post it or me, and if it is me how do I do it because I have no idea

Do you mean post a CRT about it, I know how to but i’m not sure how to explain how to do it, if you want you could message me what you want to put on the CRT and I can make it for you

 

[KirbyFan03]

Do you mean post a CRT about it, I know how to but i’m not sure how to explain how to do that, if you want you could message me what you want to put on the CRT and I can make it for you

oh no I already posted the CRT and it got accepted, I'm just wondering on the process of how to get it on the main pages, besides that though I'd like to thank you for the kind offer

 

[Rgerdeena]

oh no I already posted the CRT and it got accepted, I'm just wondering on the process of how to get it on the main pages

If it just involves editing an unlocked page I can do it for you, if it involves creating a page or editing a locked page then I either don’t know how to(the former) or can’t(the latter)

 

[KirbyFan03]

If it just involves editing an unlocked page I can do it for you, if it involves creating a page or editing a locked page then I either don’t know how to(the former) or can’t(the latter)

Creating yeah, but it's alright for the time being. I'm working on some other dc stuff and posting the raw scans in the discord server I'm in

 

[EddisherSound]

I'm interested in getting into Green Lantern
Any recommendation?

 

[Antvasima]

I'm interested in getting into Green Lantern
Any recommendation?

Maybe the Sinestro Corps War and the rest of the Geoff Johns run? It is too dark and violence-glorifying for my tastes, but the storytelling and art are excellent.

 

[KirbyFan03]

Maybe the Sinestro Corps War and the rest of the Geoff Johns run? It is too dark and violence-glorifying for my tastes, but the storytelling and art are excellent.

Geoff was an overly edgey teen who had a dismemberment fetish. Personally I hold him in lower regards compared to other writers

 

[Antvasima]

Well, I kind of liked Geoff's Justice Society run, but I consider his handling of Superboy-Prime to be an extremely nasty, sadistic, and dishonest "take that" against readers who dislike pointlessly grimdark content, and am not a fan of his more morbid storylines such as "Darkest Night".

I have also read that Geoff allegedly bullied Zack Snyder, despite that Zack's daughter had died, but I don't know if that is correct.

Regardless, many others seem to like his Green Lantern run, but likely mostly the kind of readers who consider mass-murder war-situations as exciting entertainment.

 

[Antvasima]

Never mind. I asked ChatGPT about the issue.

"Not in any clearly proven, on-the-record sense. The best-supported public reporting shows a harsh studio power struggle around Snyder while he was grieving, but not a documented case where Snyder himself says Geoff Johns directly bullied him after Autumn Snyder’s death. Autumn died in March 2017, Snyder tried to keep working for about two months, and then stepped away in May 2017.

What is well documented is that Warner Bros. had already put Geoff Johns and Jon Berg on Justice League as daily studio “watchdogs,” and Snyder later called them “babysitters.” But in that same account, Snyder said they “weren’t that threatening,” which cuts against a clean claim of direct personal bullying by Johns.

At the same time, Snyder also said the official story about his departure was “only half” true: after Autumn’s death, his family was “so broken” that they no longer had the energy to keep fighting the studio, and Snyder said Johns recruited Joss Whedon for rewrites as Whedon was being given more power. That supports the idea that Snyder was being pressured and undermined while grieving, even if it does not prove Johns personally bullied him.

The most explicit bullying/intimidation allegation involving Johns came from Ray Fisher, not Snyder. Fisher said Johns made what he viewed as a veiled threat to his career during the post-Snyder reshoot period; Johns denied ever threatening him. WarnerMedia later said its Justice League investigation ended with “remedial action,” but it did not publicly release detailed findings.

So the fairest answer is: there is evidence of studio pressure and ugly handling around Snyder during an awful family tragedy, but not solid public proof that Geoff Johns directly bullied Zack Snyder in the way your question phrases it."

 

[Antvasima]

I read through new Superman/Spider-Man comicbook, and thought that it was quite good, except for that the Superboy Prime/Spider-Man story was cut off too abruptly before concluding, that I didn't really see the point of letting Jimmy Olsen be slaughtered by Carnage, and that Power Girl should have much higher standards than having sex with The Punisher, but it had some weird and unexpected content. I will give it that.

 

[The_Unknown_Warrior1]

Do you know who the current editor for DC Comics is, or at least the head honcho? Because maybe I'm going crazy, but I think that DC has been really hitting it out of the park with their comics over the last couple years.

At the very least, it's a lot better than when it was under the leadership of that Dan Didio guy. I couldn't stand that guy, so I'm glad to see DC's gotten its shit together.

 

[Osemere]

Now that regular powerhouses scale to 2-B I still can’t really inhibit my disagreement on how weird the scaling chain currently is; like, we scale everyone on an anti-life infected Superman one-shotting Barbatos, even though this is necessarily assuming Superman has grown enough in power level to trivialize a previously crisis-level threat in the original Metal story (and yet we still scale Pre-Crisis 2-Cs to it?) because we also don’t say that Barbatos deteriorated enough in power that he wouldn’t be able to replicate the “destroyed billions of universes as the World Forge’s dragon” feat or whatever.

I still think we should try to replicate what Marvel is doing and decohere the top guys and scale them to their own feats. We already do this with the flashes; the Superman family would scale to whatever they actually can do, so would the 4 corpsmen (and their associated mythos like the emotional entities), the magic-people have a built in varies rating with a UES sourced from a 1-A cosmological construct, so that would even carry over for the Marvel family and Wonder Woman’s mythos, etc.

 

[Antvasima]

Do you know who the current editor for DC Comics is, or at least the head honcho? Because maybe I'm going crazy, but I think that DC has been really hitting it out of the park with their comics over the last couple years.

At the very least, it's a lot better than when it was under the leadership of that Dan Didio guy. I couldn't stand that guy, so I'm glad to see DC's gotten its shit together.

Jim Lee has taken over as publisher, and he seems to have learned from Dan Didiot's many extremely damaging bad decisions, and to listen to sensible people such as Mark Waid, so DC Comics is far better than it used to be.

However, except for Al Ewing's influence, Marvel Comics is still handled quite badly in my view.

 

[KirbyFan03]

Now that regular powerhouses scale to 2-B I still can’t really inhibit my disagreement on how weird the scaling chain currently is; like, we scale everyone on an anti-life infected Superman one-shotting Barbatos, even though this is necessarily assuming Superman has grown enough in power level to trivialize a previously crisis-level threat in the original Metal story (and yet we still scale Pre-Crisis 2-Cs to it?) because we also don’t say that Barbatos deteriorated enough in power that he wouldn’t be able to replicate the “destroyed billions of universes as the World Forge’s dragon” feat or whatever.

I still think we should try to replicate what Marvel is doing and decohere the top guys and scale them to their own feats. We already do this with the flashes; the Superman family would scale to whatever they actually can do, so would the 4 corpsmen (and their associated mythos like the emotional entities), the magic-people have a built in varies rating with a UES sourced from a 1-A cosmological construct, so that would even carry over for the Marvel family and Wonder Woman’s mythos, etc.

I think the 2B applies to Rebirth and Rebirth only. Other stuff like Pre and Post Crisis should remain 2C

But yes, I do agree we should use what Marvel has and separate the cream of the crop from the normals

 

[Osemere]

Anyway I was curious about the current MFTL+ speed values and came across this

• Superman process Zeta Beam data - MFTL+(2.348291230195e+168c)

The feat is valid (he actually just does do a search-problem on the required data set of the entire universe), but it’s somewhat exaggerated in its current method; taking the bit-quantity of this universe and then using a volume multiplier derived from how much bigger DC’s universe is doesn’t work since bit-density scales based on surface area, not volume, from the Bekenstein bound.

And anyway, properly speaking, he isn’t doing a brute-search on the Zeta Beam’s data set, he’s simulating the necessary conditions for the girl to be sitting on a park bench next to him so she can tell him the specific string which would solve the search-problem (which is what happens in the issue), which is deriving the scenario’s descript Kolmogorov complexity, which in full is uncomputable (as in, it’s literally not Turing-complete, even if you had an infinitely long tape it wouldn’t halt in forever to give you the proper answer), and even approximating it involves a search over the possible state-space of worlds which would generate that string which is exponentially larger (2^10^universe-bits) and would be far above 10^168 operations done in two minutes. In any case the current methodology is wrong anyway, since his brain isn’t literally simulating the universe as it exists, deriving the string from it, and then using that; he’s cycling between simulated-worlds in his head in distributing over the data set to get that exact bench-scenario in which she gives the string. Which is, either, 2^10^122 operations (assuming he’s averaging over the entire space, and just using the regular universe’s bit-density, not DC’s) approximating the K-complexity, or properly requires hypercomputation (putting this as a speed value here is really tricky, at minimum he’s capable of solving problems which classically aren’t even possible in infinite time with infinite resources).

@Emirp sumitpo

(It’s funny that this is actually consistent for the character; the Book of Infinite pages feat represents a second example of this, since it’s the ‘one story’ which contains all other possible stories (of which there are infinity) and Superman just fits it in his head).