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General DC Comics Discussion Thread

KirbyFan03 said:
but the most important question is if the writers care?
Click to expand...
The writers do not care but we do. Coming to that since we are using Morrisons map we need to laugh or take account to the fact of every being in the sphere of the gods is some sort of Monad.🤣🤣( Morrison is a sweat).
 
Wirtzwest said:
The writers do not care but we do. Coming to that since we are using Morrisons map we need to laugh or take account to the fact of every being in the sphere of the gods is some sort of Monad.🤣🤣( Morrison is a sweat).
Click to expand...
But being an "imperfect" Monad guarantees 1A and above not 0.
 
Wirtzwest said:
The totality of the material plane including the explicate order should be 1A+ as it features the universes as mere dreams or hallucinations in continuous unfolding. That was in animal man. The gross plane as well cannot be low 1A.
Click to expand...
This point should be addressed later with Xearesay's proposal. For now, let's focus on the merger.
 
Elizio33 said:
This point should be addressed later with Xearesay's proposal. For now, let's focus on the merger.
Click to expand...
The material plane needs to be discussed as it's going to affect all of the higher planes. Waiting until after you guys lock in a tier when the process is still underway is exactly why nothing gets done with the verse. Just constant cosmology changes and upgrades instead of sorting things out before hand. No offense, of course.

Not to mention, you guys are completely missing the Subtle realm that exist between the Sphere of Gods and the material world. Which would also affect some of the ratings. So basically, no matter what, the material plane will have to be talked about. It's going to affect just about everything, including the characters ratings.
 
Asterotheology said:
The material plane needs to be discussed as it's going to affect all of the higher planes. Waiting until after you guys lock in a tier when the process is still underway is exactly why nothing gets done with the verse. Just constant cosmology changes and upgrades instead of sorting things out before hand. No offense, of course.

Not to mention, you guys are completely missing the Subtle realm that exist between the Sphere of Gods and the material world. Which would also affect some of the ratings. So basically, no matter what, the material plane will have to be talked about. It's going to affect just about everything, including the characters ratings.
Click to expand...
I actually discussed that with Xearesay month ago hence I said he has own plans for it
 
vsbattles.com

DC Pre Crisis Cosmology

INTRODUCTION This CRT will attempt to be as comprehensive and direct as possible regarding the DC Universe in its old phase, seeking to go through the entire cosmology already well defined as the "pre-crisis", and then present the levels in an updated form. Much has been said recently about the...
vsbattles.com vsbattles.com
 
Asterotheology said:
The material plane needs to be discussed as it's going to affect all of the higher planes. Waiting until after you guys lock in a tier when the process is still underway is exactly why nothing gets done with the verse. Just constant cosmology changes and upgrades instead of sorting things out before hand. No offense, of course.

Not to mention, you guys are completely missing the Subtle realm that exist between the Sphere of Gods and the material world. Which would also affect some of the ratings. So basically, no matter what, the material plane will have to be talked about. It's going to affect just about everything, including the characters ratings.
Click to expand...
That's a very fair point, and I agree that the Material Plane will inevitably have to be discussed since it influences the higher layers. My intention was not to bypass this step, but rather to present a general starting structure that other members can help to refine.

I also agree that realms between the Material Realms and the Sphere of the Gods should be addressed, since they can affect how the hierarchy is interpreted and, by extension, some of the ratings. Since the DC Cosmology is quite complex, there may be elements i missed indeed, so i invite other members once again to contribute by providing scans or information that could help refine the structure. :)
 
Yes. Community help would be very appreciated. 🙏
 
Elizio33 said:
That's a very fair point, and I agree that the Material Plane will inevitably have to be discussed since it influences the higher layers. My intention was not to bypass this step, but rather to present a general starting structure that other members can help to refine.

I also agree that realms between the Material Realms and the Sphere of the Gods should be addressed, since they can affect how the hierarchy is interpreted and, by extension, some of the ratings. Since the DC Cosmology is quite complex, there may be elements i missed indeed, so i invite other members once again to contribute by providing scans or information that could help refine the structure. :)
Click to expand...
I might have some stuff
 
Elizio33 said:
Here's my draft, but i need to update it with what i have suggested here. I started a while ago, with old ideas, so there are a lot of things to change.

vsbattles.fandom.com

Elizio33/Sandbox12

vsbattles.fandom.com vsbattles.fandom.com
Click to expand...
Impressive. Iirc during COIE the monitors satellite located inside the multiverse. One could reach it by teleporting beyond mathematics. I'll try to find the scan tho as it's somewhere in Discord
 
Elizio33 said:
Hierarchy:

Source/Presence/Overvoid > Light of Creation & Great Darkness > Michael Demiurgos ≈ Lucifer Morningstar > Endless ≥ Hands > Perpetua > Monitor, Anti-Monitor, World Forger > Mandrakk > Monitors > Mister Mxyzptlk & Bat-Mite > Quintessence (Highfather, Ganthet, Phantom Stranger, Zeus, Wizard, Spectre) ≥ New Gods > Lords Chaos and Order > Angels and Demon Lords > Elementals > Regular Heroes and Sorcerers

Note that the pre-creational state of the Great Darkness would upscale the Light of Creation given that Pralaya could devour an aspect of God and return most of Creation in total non-existence. Also note that these are just my thoughts and opinions, they are by no means facts. ;)
Click to expand...
Hmmm
 
Elizio33 said:
Here's a brief suggestion for editing our DC Cosmology blog following the merger. Please note that these are simply my thoughts, based on a combination of elements from the Crisis, Vertigo, and DeMatteis cosmologies. They are by no means face values.

1. Material Realms

  • Physical reality: contains the Orrery of Worlds, the Bleed, all universes, branching realities, and separate Multiverses.
  • Tier: Low 1‑A (Totality of the Material Realms)
  • Notes: The Bleed itself is High 1‑C for being 11-D and any feats of destruction of universes in the Orrery would vary depending on the context or era, ranging from 2-C to 2-A. The full Material Realms scales to Low 1‑A. As the debased Gross Plane, a ‘dream within a dream, it represents the simplest layer of creation’s dream. Its infinite potential and scope justify a Low 1‑A rating.

2. Metaphysical Realms

Archetypal realms: contains the Sphere of the Gods, Comic Book Limbo, the Monitor Sphere, the Dark Multiverse. Their inhabitants typically exist as living ideas or thoughts and their realms are often considered as fictions or archetypal and platonic. Even the universes in the Dark Multiverse are sometimes referred as nightmares or unrealities.
  • Tier: High 1-A (Highest parts of the Metaphysical Realms)
  • Note: The Sphere of the Gods is 1-A for existing on a higher level of existence than the Material Realms. Comic Book Limbo is possibly High 1-A for having R>F over the Multiverse and the Sphere of the Gods and is where the Writter live. Realms like the Monitor Sphere, the Dark Multiverse, the Fifth Dimension, and the Sixth Dimension are High 1-A.

3. Source Wall and the Totality of Creation/Divine Continuum

  • Totality of space and time across creation; includes Omniverse (space) and Hypertime (time)
  • Tier: High 1‑A
  • Notes: Contains the Multiverse, the Sphere of the Gods, the Dark Multiverse, infinite webs of Multiverses, Limbo, and the Vanishing Point; likely contains the Monitor Sphere and the Sixth Dimension as apex layers of Creation.

4. Greater Omniverse/Infinite/Place Beyond All Places

  • Void before Creation; higher agents of The Source operate here.
  • Tier: High 1‑A
  • Notes: Higher realms beyond the Multiverse and the Source Wall, where many agents of The Source live and create or maintain infinite Creations across the Void. It is also where creation parasites or beings originating from past versions of Creation exist.

4a. Endless
  • Embodiments of universal archetypes (Death, Dream, Desire, etc.); localized in the Sphere of the Gods and born from the Big Bang, yet their influence extends across all Creations in the Greater Omniverse.
  • Tier: High 1‑A
  • Notes: Conceptual constants with omniversal influence, independent of any single Creation or Creators.

5. Light of Creation/Deep Change/Source’s Manifest Form
  • Manifest form of the Source/Presence/Overvoid.
  • Fundamental principle underpinning all existence; source of Speed, Still, Sage, Strength forces. All of existence enamates from it as a dream.
  • Tier: High 1‑A
  • Notes: Mathematical principles that created and sustain all existence.

6. Primordial Void (Pralaya/Mother Night/Great Darkness)
  • Pre-creational nothingness; conceptual antithesis of the Light and Creation.
  • Precedes the Multiverse and the Light of Creation.
  • Tier: High 1‑A
  • Notes: Same entity under different interpretations, but possessing their own identities and characteristics.

7. Source/Presence/Overvoid = God
  • Ultimate origin of all existence; God
  • Tier: 0 (Absolute)
  • Notes: Without beginning or end, immutable, indivisible, beyond all creation, duality, and hierarchy. Absolute origin of all things, beyond the Light of Creation and the Great Darkness.
Click to expand...
It's stated that darksied's fall rippled through all the way to the monitor sphere as well, wouldn't that be an anti feat?
 
Heya, let's talk a bit about P-Crisis Brainiac's Strategic Intelligence?

I'm checking if i can put him up against someone in a chess match, so i'd like a bit more detailing about it and how would he go
 
Elizio33 said:
Here's a brief suggestion for editing our DC Cosmology blog following the merger. Please note that these are simply my thoughts, based on a combination of elements from the Crisis, Vertigo, and DeMatteis cosmologies. They are by no means face values.

1. Material Realms

  • Physical reality: contains the Orrery of Worlds, the Bleed, all universes, branching realities, and separate Multiverses.
  • Tier: Low 1‑A (Totality of the Material Realms)
  • Notes: The Bleed itself is High 1‑C for being 11-D and any feats of destruction of universes in the Orrery would vary depending on the context or era, ranging from 2-C to 2-A. The full Material Realms scales to Low 1‑A. As the debased Gross Plane, a ‘dream within a dream, it represents the simplest layer of creation’s dream. Its infinite potential and scope justify a Low 1‑A rating.

2. Metaphysical Realms

Archetypal realms: contains the Sphere of the Gods, Comic Book Limbo, the Monitor Sphere, the Dark Multiverse. Their inhabitants typically exist as living ideas or thoughts and their realms are often considered as fictions or archetypal and platonic. Even the universes in the Dark Multiverse are sometimes referred as nightmares or unrealities.
  • Tier: High 1-A (Highest parts of the Metaphysical Realms)
  • Note: The Sphere of the Gods is 1-A for existing on a higher level of existence than the Material Realms. Comic Book Limbo is possibly High 1-A for having R>F over the Multiverse and the Sphere of the Gods and is where the Writter live. Realms like the Monitor Sphere, the Dark Multiverse, the Fifth Dimension, and the Sixth Dimension are High 1-A.

3. Source Wall and the Totality of Creation/Divine Continuum

  • Totality of space and time across creation; includes Omniverse (space) and Hypertime (time)
  • Tier: High 1‑A
  • Notes: Contains the Multiverse, the Sphere of the Gods, the Dark Multiverse, infinite webs of Multiverses, Limbo, and the Vanishing Point; likely contains the Monitor Sphere and the Sixth Dimension as apex layers of Creation.

4. Greater Omniverse/Infinite/Place Beyond All Places

  • Void before Creation; higher agents of The Source operate here.
  • Tier: High 1‑A
  • Notes: Higher realms beyond the Multiverse and the Source Wall, where many agents of The Source live and create or maintain infinite Creations across the Void. It is also where creation parasites or beings originating from past versions of Creation exist.

4a. Endless
  • Embodiments of universal archetypes (Death, Dream, Desire, etc.); localized in the Sphere of the Gods and born from the Big Bang, yet their influence extends across all Creations in the Greater Omniverse.
  • Tier: High 1‑A
  • Notes: Conceptual constants with omniversal influence, independent of any single Creation or Creators.

5. Light of Creation/Deep Change/Source’s Manifest Form
  • Manifest form of the Source/Presence/Overvoid.
  • Fundamental principle underpinning all existence; source of Speed, Still, Sage, Strength forces. All of existence enamates from it as a dream.
  • Tier: High 1‑A
  • Notes: Mathematical principles that created and sustain all existence.

6. Primordial Void (Pralaya/Mother Night/Great Darkness)
  • Pre-creational nothingness; conceptual antithesis of the Light and Creation.
  • Precedes the Multiverse and the Light of Creation.
  • Tier: High 1‑A
  • Notes: Same entity under different interpretations, but possessing their own identities and characteristics.

7. Source/Presence/Overvoid = God
  • Ultimate origin of all existence; God
  • Tier: 0 (Absolute)
  • Notes: Without beginning or end, immutable, indivisible, beyond all creation, duality, and hierarchy. Absolute origin of all things, beyond the Light of Creation and the Great Darkness.
Click to expand...
I forgot to tell you the order of this beings is actually correct good work. The tiering we shall sort some other time.
 
Looking again at the Flash series, I realized that we had misunderstood the Gallery of Moments. Are we sure that it is truly located beyond the Source Wall or rather in a metaphysical layer within the Multiverse, beneath time and space?
 
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