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Kirby General Discussion Thread (fun edition)

Eficiente said:
I wouldn't say there is 0 evidence of all mechanical stars being evil if there are only 2 we have seen and both are evil. Nova's character varies depending on the interpretation like that, it's valid to say it is pure evil, but it is not the only interpretation.
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That being said this one needs some sort of excuse because these actions are VERY BAD
 
To be fair the character known for corrupting the foundation of dreams showed up in the same game and the wish was told to Nova by the star rod in the fountain of dreams
 
Honestly, I just think he got petty over what happened to the events of milky way wishes, Just an AI that only knows how to make wishes in terms of weaponry, or war-oriented prompt rules.


or just eroded over time like AI ChatBots do or did back then, as another thing the comment said.
 
Eficiente said:
Hyness was an absolute bastard, but I can more or less see how a person may create religious beliefs to justify horrors; It's super immoral, but I can see the logic behind it.
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He was also corrupted in the mean time, and he has shown genuine care. While he may be worshipping a god of destruction, he does still have a good side
 
Lou_change said:
To be fair the character known for corrupting the foundation of dreams showed up in the same game and the wish was told to Nova by the star rod in the fountain of dreams
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Well, he only shows up when created by Nova in Road Trip. When we unlock him after such events in City Trial, as more of the same.

I do wish Marx or Nightmare were behind Nova's evil, but I got over the "retcon" of Nova's morals due to how great of a villain it was made.
TyranoDoom30 said:
He was also corrupted in the mean time, and he has shown genuine care. While he may be worshipping a god of destruction, he does still have a good side
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What genuine care are you talking about? Genuine question assuming you mean Hyness before being Friend Heart'ed. He only has 1 display of potential care, which may be quickly followed by regret over feeling that way and manipulation to dismiss the topic.

Otherwise, if you mean post-being Friend Heart'ed, then you're correct. But then, we don't know how much of that should be attributed to the Friend Heart's influence rather than what his character is capable on his own.
 
Eficiente said:
What genuine care are you talking about?
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Saving the sisters and being implied to be their adoptive father as well. Iirc it's also implied that he started abusing them and treating them as weapons because of the Jamba Heart corruption (Including him consistenly forgetting Zan's name), so he didn't do any abuse prior to it
 
Well then, in that case, if you don't mind mature topics, please read the Jambastion cult blog I made; The section about about Zan's backstory. Then come back here and tell me what you think about the topic now.

You can read more of the blog too, if you want.
 
Eficiente said:
Well then, in that case, if you don't mind mature topics, please read the Jambastion cult blog I made; The section about about Zan's backstory. Then come back here and tell me what you think about the topic now.

You can read more of the blog too, if you want.
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Link bubba
 
Eficiente said:
Then come back here and tell me what you think about the topic now.
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Hm, i think it made interesting points and did changed my perspective on the matter. If it is true, then that strengthens MUs like Hyness vs Dr. Weil for me
 
Not saying you believe this, but if you had to argue I was wrong there (in saying that Hyness acted to save the girls bc of their potential for great magic), how would you word it?

As I see it, I think most people would naturally want to believe Hyness acted bc he cared for them as a likely thing bc of how horrible the alternative is:
  • How much of an awful person it makes Hyness,
  • how wrong it was for the series and Kirby to spare him,
  • and how the whole lives of the Mage-Sisters is just f*cked up. They got groomed to acting as servants of a bastard, facilitating his military needs at their own peril, having a father whose care can be measured with a hand-sized ruler pre-Heroes in Another Dimension, being willing to die for him or be used as literal objects. And even post-Heroes in Another Dimension, they all still follow the ideology constructed by pre-Heroes in Another Dimension Hyness, being murderers and having a blast at it.
That's just the state of things.
 
Eficiente said:
but if you had to argue I was wrong there (in saying that Hyness acted to save the girls bc of their potential for great magic), how would you word it?
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I could say it's equally plausible that Hyness really saved the girls out of goodness, and that the potential part refers to after the saving. While he may have the potential part in mind first, he could've as well saved them out of goodness, since we do see later that Hyness does apologize for Zan about forgetting her name before his corruption is complete and we see him redeemed after HiAD. However, we still lack some concrete information so it's hard to deduce which reading is the most plausible.
 
Well, he grants them power and heals them at once, it's the same action. The statement says he did so because of their potential for great magic ("due to her potential, she was endowed with powerful magical abilities"). Please do imagine being in Hyness' shoes; 3 girls are dying around, we're told you saved them bc potential for great magic, not bc you cared for their security, or bc it was the right thing to do. We got 3 more descriptions about that backstory, they say you gave them power rather than how you healed them or took them away from harm. What does this say about your character? It says it either didn't care about them, or you mostly only cared about your own personal benefits, which technically leaves room for some care for them. But then, that care is so little, it kinda doesn't matter;

The girls are put in a dangerous military position when they grow up, which can be assumed to be the goal all along. It's not like we're shown Jambastion cult members with great magic assisting their society in a non-combative way. So Hyness can easily be said to already be thinking about putting the girls in deadly perils at that point in time. If we assume his travels had that goal in mind from the start, then this goes even earlier in time.

Bc of his worsened madness, it's hard to attribute his actions in Story Mode to a regular version of himself. But we do know he sacrificed the Mage-Sisters to Void and their devotion was so high, the Mage-Sisters didn't call him out for it. Considering Zan Partizanne's sacrifice of his army on Jambastion, and how she isn't portrayed as worsened by madness, we can assume this is at least in line with the teachings of these people. Also consider how the enemies inside the collapsing Jambastion were still fighting you as Kirby & co. were running away, disregarding their own lives. Their teachings may not tell you "Sacrifice your own people if needed to," but they're so awful, that if that ends up happening, nobody cares. That's how much "care" Hyness put into his daughters.

Also consider, when Hyness summons the sisters to use them as weapons & a shield, the Mage-Sisters already make a pose, crossing their arms as if readying themselves to be better bats and a better shield. It's like they knew this was a move Hyness could pull off. Did they communicate this with each other before? If so, was it before Hyness' madness got worse? We don't know. But even if it was after his madness got worse, Mage-Sisters were still raised to devoutly accept this treatment. That's how much "care" Hyness put into his daughters.

If Hyness cared, he would remember the name of 1 of his 3 daughters, who is also the leader of the Mage Generals, who lead the military of his whole people. Zan Partizanne should rank 1st as the most important mortal on Hyness' life. Hyness apologizing is implied to be manipulation, imagine; What happens if he doesn't apologize? He would be mistreating her and leaving it at that. He needs to create the appearance that he cares, so "because he cares," he apologizes. Not that he will learn her name in the future, he doesn't care that much. Seems like a cartoonish display of how much he doesn't care. But even then, yes, I'm willing to accept that maybe he apologizes bc he cares a little.
 
What about the "galactic crisis" his (and possibly including himself) clan stopped? Could it as well be a result of his madness and that he is twisting the story and that the actual crisis was his clan awakening Void Termina?
 
It's possible his idea of those events doesn't align with reality, in such a way that his people were not as noble as he portrays them. I think it's likely, but we do need to recognize the possibility that they saved the day that time.

Even with that granted, it doesn't matter. It's a "galactic crisis," we can assume it threatens the galaxy, and it was before they were sealed away in the edge of the galaxy, so it threatens the Jambastion people as well. It's not an organization set on destroying the universe, it's a organization with morals so low, they wanted to destroy the universe once. They may even want the most amount of people in the universe to join them, seeing how the Mage-Sisters joined the group, and how so many of Hyness' attack have the logo of the organization.

To put it in perspective, if aliens invaded during WW2 to enslave the whole world, and the nazis did their part to blow them away, this wouldn't diminish their evil or develop their character. They would simply act in line with what is understood of them.

I think the following bit shows how much they care for others:
They always pray to this evil God they have, and the narrative makes a point to show that it's notable how members of the cult pray for the well-being of another. We do see them have the opportunity to kill their enemies and attribute such luck over their prayers to God, which can give us an idea of the type of prayers they have. They're a cartoonish demonic cult. One wouldn't even bother to image them praying once in a while to destroy their enemies and what does it take to think that way, they're so evil it's not worth it, for the most part.
 
Does anyone have the Kirby of the Stars 64: Certain Victory Strategy Method guidebook? I am mainly looking for it for lore reasons as there was another Kirby 64 magazine that said that Ado and Adeleine were the same person
 
Tonygameman said:
Those two really deserved all the research. (funny how it took a racing game to take any notice)

mediamaniavsblogs.blogspot.com

Ice Climbers VS Lololo & Lalala

mediamaniavsblogs.blogspot.com mediamaniavsblogs.blogspot.com
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Nice.
TyranoDoom30 said:
Does anyone have the Kirby of the Stars 64: Certain Victory Strategy Method guidebook? I am mainly looking for it for lore reasons as there was another Kirby 64 magazine that said that Ado and Adeleine were the same person
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We have this written about it in her profile:

"Note: Whether or not Adeleine and Ado are the same character is consistently left intentionally unclear and unknown [星のカービィのキャラクター 大集合図かん ("Kirby of the Stars Characters Large Gathering Diagram")] across supplementary material. [星のカービィファン ("Kirby of the Stars Fans") magazine, volume 3, page 35] However, since official compilation images of the character omit Ado from Dream Land 3, it's safer to assume that they're not the same character. (To be specific, they were the same character at first, the character was not used for many years, and then the narrative around their identity was changed, in such a way that retconned her identity.)"

The last part is key. As you can see in Kaialone's work, we actually have evidence of Ado and Adeleine being the same character from old sources. Then came modern times, and every source time after time made it unclear, called it unclear, and removes images of Ado when talking about Adeleine. Her identity is "we don't know if they're the same chacter", which is a retcon.

I'm sure "Kirby of the Stars 64: Certain Victory Strategy Method" is the translated name of one of the Jpn. only guides Kirby 64 got. So by extension, even if it says they're the same character, it wouldn't matter.

I would add it as a supplement to Kaialone's work tho, like I did with the last 2 sources listed in the Note above.

What's the Jpn. name of this "Kirby of the Stars 64: Certain Victory Strategy Method" tho? One can always just put that on Goodle Images, and see if one of the people selling that has images of the guide with the content you want.
 
Eficiente said:
What's the Jpn. name of this "Kirby of the Stars 64: Certain Victory Strategy Method" tho? One can always just put that on Goodle Images, and see if one of the people selling that has images of the guide with the content you want.
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I tried looking for it on Google Images, but either the results were not what i were looking for or they were pretty low quality. We do have some scans of it on the translation blog tho. There's this blog where for example it says that 0² is the evolved form of Zero when i searched the guidebook in japanese, but i don't know if it's actually from the guidebook or the blogger's words

Also, i do ultimately believe Ado and Adeleine are the same person. There's just way too much evidence for it and i do treat Modern HAL's words as Death of the Author unless some time from now they finally say it, but i can understand the concerns of wherever they are the same character or not
 
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That's the blogger's opinion. Just because they have a guide doesn't that mean anything they say is backed up by the guide.
TyranoDoom30 said:
Also, i do ultimately believe Ado and Adeleine are the same person. There's just way too much evidence for it and i do treat Modern HAL's words as Death of the Author unless some time from now they finally say it, but i can understand the concerns of wherever they are the same character or not
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Well, most of that evidence is more so circumstantial and fragile. When compared to like 5 sources saying "Let's cover this topic: We don't know if they're the same character", we can't say that we know better and that we know for sure they are the same character.

Whether the case, thanks for being reasonable about it.

----

Anyway... I'm sure everyone knows 0 can shoot mini Dark Matters as an attack, right? Being assumed to be Dark Matter's creator? Well, I had 2 sources stating as much, so that's no longer an assumption. 0 is Dark Matter's father.

Also, the Dark Matter shown in Dream Land 3 is the same as the one fought and destroyed in Dream Land 2, not a different guy from the Dark Matter species, I also got a source for that. Check Zero and Dark Matter's updated profiles.

If you ever see someone make a list of worst Nintendo/videogame parents, let them know 0 and Hyness exist.
 
Honestly, i think it would've been cool if Dark Matter Swordsman somewhat turned into a Vegeta-esque character and became somewhat of an ally due to the reason he is attacking Popstar. I've also seen a fan-made manga of that AU and it's pretty good
 
TyranoDoom30 said:
Honestly, i think it would've been cool if Dark Matter Swordsman somewhat turned into a Vegeta-esque character and became somewhat of an ally due to the reason he is attacking Popstar. I've also seen a fan-made manga of that AU and it's pretty good
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It would have been cool if anything Dark Matter related showed up in a modern mainline game outside of Gooey and like maybe Void.
 
I got Air Riders for Christmas, and while I've been having a lot of fun and have a lot to say, I only really have one thing to ask at the moment: What the **** was Nova's problem? Sure, it's been an antagonist before, but he's never ben this actively monkey-pawing a victim before.
 
CrackerVolley said:
I got Air Riders for Christmas, and while I've been having a lot of fun and have a lot to say,
Click to expand...
Hope you enjoy it.
CrackerVolley said:
I only really have one thing to ask at the moment: What the **** was Nova's problem? Sure, it's been an antagonist before, but he's never ben this actively monkey-pawing a victim before.
Click to expand...
Yeah, that's the strangest thing in the game. Before, we understood Nova was a neutral wish granter.

If we think about it in retrospective, maybe Sakurai always meant for Nova to ignore Kirby's wish while granting Marx's evil wish, showing its evil. And we do punish Nova by blowing it up. So it can be said that this shows Nova was always evil.

As to why it was so evil now, well, it is the main villain this game. It may as well be very evil.

1 reasonable theory is that it isn't acting perfectly well, still having that crack in its "head", having made it bigger when Nova re-built itself in Meta Knightmare Ultra. We don't know if it is sane or insane, sadistic or cold in its acts, and if it was always evil or if it turned evil. Of course, these are not equally likely possibilities.
Lou_change said:
It responded to marx's wish by charging at popstar
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I was going to write something about it. See, that's more of a meme fans say. We don't know what was Nova going to do after Marx's wish. Some fans claim it was going to ram into Popstar and destroy it, but it could have gone there to use its powers up close. Air Riders sets Nova's size as far smaller than Popstar, so the idea that it would destroy all of Popstar w/o destroying itself is a stretch. (There is such a thing as having insane durability, but that's not to be assumed over an assumed feat.)
 
Should Zero Two (If he is the actual Zero Two and not a clone made by Nova) and Nightmare get Air Riders keys?

Also, if the current Zero Two is not a digital clone, i do headcanon that his design is due to him being in the process of regeneration after his death.
 
I was working on that here:
The wording in the summaries spells it out; Nightmare gets a new key, we don't know if he's the same as the original Nightmare or a copy. Whereas Zero Two is absolutely, 100% a copy of the og 0². There is a list of reasons for it:
  • We literally see it created with lightning, same lightning used to create other creatures.
    • Its appearance in City Trial may appear to have it so Zero Two exists on its own, but how canon that is next to the story mode is more questionable; It could be a non-canon re-use of Zero Two. And even then, Nova shows up in City Trial, meaning that it could have recreated Zero Two again.
  • Zero Two is a digital entity, made of shards of light not even fully connected, with pretty much nothing inside, mostly existing in a digital world. 0² is a cloud.
  • Zero Two moves like a real life robot, with what appear to be pre-designed moves that look odd. For example, it moves from 1 place to another while looking at a same, different direction, as if its programming understands it has to move, but lacking the self-awareness to look where it is going and just following code. Zero Two may have no greater self-awareness than that of an animal, mostly being programmed to attack. A far cry from 0².
  • Another boss used by Nova is Robo Dedede, a robot version of the real Dedede. The giant Marx it uses may also be a copy of the real Marx, assuming they're not both the real Marx.
Point is, I am very disappointed at the fans who claim Zero Two to be 0². It's insane. Look at things like this: "Zero Two also appears to be digital in origin with its glitching wings" Well then ig physical things appear to be made of physical matter, water appears to be made of water, and so on. Can't be too sure of anything.
TyranoDoom30 said:
Also, if the current Zero Two is not a digital clone, i do headcanon that his design is due to him being in the process of regeneration after his death.
Click to expand...
I do have to ask you. Are you using the term headcanon well?; Do you actually mean to say that you personally find likely that this is the case, knowing there is no evidence to claim as much? Or is it more like a fantasy, in which you know this isn't what they were going with, but would find cool if that was the case regardless? The latter is perfectly valid, but that's not a headcanon.

I am 500% sure that if we ask Sakurai what's up with Zero Two, he's not gonna say it is the og 0² in the process of regeneration after his death. Because why would 0² turn digital, lose its mannerisms for robotic ones, and use different abilities, all at once. Heck, maybe Sakurai would say something cool like that Zero Two has the og memories of 0². That's understandable.
 
Eficiente said:
I am 500% sure that if we ask Sakurai what's up with Zero Two, he's not gonna say it is the og 0² in the process of regeneration after his death. Because why would 0² turn digital, lose its mannerisms for robotic ones, and use different abilities, all at once. Heck, maybe Sakurai would say something cool like that Zero Two has the og memories of 0². That's understandable.
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Fair enough
 
Damn, this was since 2016 and it's being put on now. I wonder why it took so long to find it out only after the Snow Bowl AZ scan came out with RTDLX?
 
I'm finishing the edits of the last Kirby CRT, I'm at Hyness's profile, coming from the main characters listed in the Kirby (Series) page to the last profiles listed there. After that, I figured I would need to make a small thread to apply stuff from Air Riders before making the real, big Kirby CRT I wanted to make. That's when Gigantes will have a profile.

I have the pun ready for the title of that thread and everything.
 
About the real, big Kirby CRT I wanted to make in the future

https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/User:Eficiente/SandboxK?diff=prev&oldid=9382831

Among the stuff I'm preparing, I just found something that will open Pandora's box. Wankers outside the wiki will certainly use it to claim everyone to be Low 1-C. (I mean they were doing that already, but they are going to do it harder.) That's going to suck, but it is what it is.
 
Eficiente said:
Among the stuff I'm preparing, I just found something that will open Pandora's box. Wankers outside the wiki will certainly use it to claim everyone to be Low 1-C. (I mean they were doing that already, but they are going to do it harder.) That's going to suck, but it is what it is.
Click to expand...
But will they get actual upgrades to that tier?
 
Eficiente said:
Among the stuff I'm preparing, I just found something that will open Pandora's box. Wankers outside the wiki will certainly use it to claim everyone to be Low 1-C. (I mean they were doing that already, but they are going to do it harder.) That's going to suck, but it is what it is.
Click to expand...
860


Okay but what is it and what stops everyone from scaling to it? Will nobody scale, or only certain characters?
 
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