Nasuverse Servant Physiology Revision

[John985]

Divine Spirits Empowerment will be added, need the scan for the servant one.

It should be this one for servants, but it also mention gods in the same vein.

and agree with the thread

 

[Elesia011]

Dude, Divine Spirit should not have type 9, i already said it, Divine Spirit exist in the Reverse Side of the World, how can they have type 9 when themselves already exist in the place for type 9?, it is like saying Heroic Spirit have type 9 due to the Throne of Heroes, but they already existing in the Throne.

Type 9 is for avatar, not the trueself, and Servant have type 9 because they are the container that have information of Heroic Spirit in the Throne thus they act like avatar

Also shouldn't FSN Saber be excluded from this whole type 9 immortality?, she was literally still alive when she was summoned and went to Avalon after death, of course there is still a record of her in the Throne

Why would divine should be exempted from type 9 ? They exist in higher dimensions and even when summoned as servants, their true self stays unaltered in said dimensions but it was specifically clarified by Roman in the beginning of the game that even though they exist in said higher dimensions, they can't actively interfere with the human world
It should follow the same logic with servant and throne of heroes and marked with combat inapplicable.

 

[Vietthai96]

Why would divine should be exempted from type 9 ? They exist in higher dimensions and even when summoned as servants, their true self stays unaltered in said dimensions but it was specifically clarified by Roman in the beginning of the game that even though they exist in said higher dimensions, they can't actively interfere with the human world
It should follow the same logic with servant and throne of heroes and marked with combat inapplicable.

Dude what?, why we even give true form, their actual self in said higher dimension type 9?, you are against the standard itself, we only give type 9 to avatar who have true form exists in another dimension, we don't give type 9 to true form. Servant trueself is from Throne of Heroes, that is different, this isn't even about non-combat applicable or not

 

[Elesia011]

Dude what?, why we even give true form, their actual self in said higher dimension type 9?, you are against the standard itself, we only give type 9 to avatar who have true form exists in another dimension, we don't give type 9 to true form. Servant trueself is from Throne of Heroes, that is different, this isn't even about non-combat applicable or not

Look, there may be confusion here, the mechanism is for the summoned divine spirits in the human world, they use avatars as proxy because mysteries are soo low that even for them to exist in human worlds they need to reduce their divinity
Their true self is said to reside in a higher dimension watching over the world
What gets type 9 is the vessel with compressed divinity because destroying said vessel actually doesn't affect their true being as a higher dimensional soul in the reverside and that's how i linked it to the throne of heroes case, it's the same shit but non combat applicable and thought Roman said they weren't able to interfere in lower dimensions, it was more of him expressing his hopes.

 

[Deonment]

Rest of it generally looks good, but I take objection to this in specific

Magecraft: Servants, just like Phantasmal Beasts and Dead Apostles, have innate resistance to Magecraft due to their high rank in Mystery. Due to the nature of Magecraft as magical energy from the soul given form, and the soul's nature as a higher dimensional form, the resistances and effects listed require sufficient range to be overcome. Although it should be noted that physical phenomena attacks, like Elemental Manipulation, do not require range to be overcome, as they are not spiritual or metaphysical in nature. These effects include:

This explanation is either poorly done or is false. A power originating from within a higher-dimensional space does not make it higher-dimensional, nor does it make the resistances to that power higher-dimensional. This should only apply to powers that specifically target the soul, rather than all instances of Magecraft

 

[Vietthai96]

Rest of it generally looks good, but I take objection to this in specific

This explanation is either poorly done or is false. A power originating from within a higher-dimensional space does not make it higher-dimensional, nor does it make the resistances to that power higher-dimensional. This should only apply to powers that specifically target the soul, rather than all instances of Magecraft

I remember this was removed?, still on the page?, lol. Yeah if it is still on the page, remove it

 

[BreezeHM]

Rest of it generally looks good, but I take objection to this in specific

This explanation is either poorly done or is false. A power originating from within a higher-dimensional space does not make it higher-dimensional, nor does it make the resistances to that power higher-dimensional. This should only apply to powers that specifically target the soul, rather than all instances of Magecraft

I remember this was removed?, still on the page?, lol. Yeah if it is still on the page, remove it

It just seems to be badly worded, I can fix it up later. Do you have the thread for its removal Viet?

 

[Vietthai96]

It just seems to be badly worded, I can fix it up later. Do you have the thread for its removal Viet?

Make TM matchups great again (4D invul/hax removal)

4D hax (including invul comes from the soul being situated in a higher dimension), and magecraft coming from it, therefore any and every magecraft must be 4D, right? Wrong. The materialization of the soul (aka, the cyber avatars) on the mooncell are still 3 dimensional beings, and still do not...

vsbattles.com

this thread, I think, so likely Wankbreaker didn't apply it

 

[John985]

Wasnt there a thread that make all the CRT of wankbreaker invalid?

 

[Vietthai96]

Wasnt there a thread that make all the CRT of wankbreaker invalid?

Ah yeah, damn, i keep forgetting stuff

The Nasuverse Profiles Problem

Good morning/afternoon/evening everyone. As most of you already know, the Nasuverse profiles have undergone some recent changes, based on content revisions made by the user Wankbreaker. The big issue, the major stumbling block, is that this user — now banned — not only demonstrably carried out...

vsbattles.com

but since it is mostly touching profile problem

 

[HigashikataJobin]

Make TM matchups great again (4D invul/hax removal)

4D hax (including invul comes from the soul being situated in a higher dimension), and magecraft coming from it, therefore any and every magecraft must be 4D, right? Wrong. The materialization of the soul (aka, the cyber avatars) on the mooncell are still 3 dimensional beings, and still do not...

vsbattles.com

Jesus Christ. He literally altered the meaning of the kanji from "a higher (superior) level of power" to "a higher dimension".

He didn't even put any scan or source btw. He could just make shit up (he actually did once).

 

[HigashikataJobin]

The materialization of the soul (aka, the cyber avatars) on the mooncell are still 3 dimensional beings, and still do not have a higher perspective over the world like say, BB. So anything and everything coming from the soul should not be assumed to have higher dimensional potency.

Blud just said things without any evidence

But enough of this. About the thread: this page is infinitely better than the currently one. It should be the main Servant Physiology page, yes, and what's missing can be added in the future.

 

[Vietthai96]

I should have check his scans and translation but i decided to put my trust in him because he has TH role bruhh

 

[Maniaunavailable]

I should have check his scans and translation but i decided to put my trust in him because he has TH role bruhh

almost all mods did, np he was just too good at it

 

[Deonment]

Make TM matchups great again (4D invul/hax removal)

4D hax (including invul comes from the soul being situated in a higher dimension), and magecraft coming from it, therefore any and every magecraft must be 4D, right? Wrong. The materialization of the soul (aka, the cyber avatars) on the mooncell are still 3 dimensional beings, and still do not...

vsbattles.com

this thread, I think, so likely Wankbreaker didn't apply it

Yeah, that doesn't really change my issue with the exact justification, though I'll wait to see how Breeze justifies it before really making any judgment
tldr; Magecraft/mysteries were argued to be 4D, due to their multiple feats of messing with higher dimensions + drawing upon the (what used to be, and could still be) higher-dimensional soul, and thus things dependent on it we're also 4D
Even without the standard changes the exact way the resistances worked would've had to change, but as it is rn, the soul existing within a higher dimension only really makes it so things which need to interact with the soul need have to have 4D reach, if the soul were dimensioned, and 4D at that, you could maybe argue otherwise, but I'm not privvy to the arguments for whether or not the soul qualifies on that end or not, and if Magecraft would qualify under our smurf hax requirments (and if the hax in question would actually be 4D potency wise rather than nature wise, but that's getting into the weeds of stuff that can be saved for the eventual Magecraft page)
Also, the range needed for it would be Interdimensional, not Extradimensional. Extradimensional is used for like "small scale" 2-C and up range; interdimensional is only from reaching from one dimension into another. Affecting small-scale 4D (beyond the typical universe) stuff is included in that.

 

[BreezeHM]

Alright, I've updated the Sandbox with majority of the suggestions.

Rest of it generally looks good, but I take objection to this in specific

This explanation is either poorly done or is false. A power originating from within a higher-dimensional space does not make it higher-dimensional, nor does it make the resistances to that power higher-dimensional. This should only apply to powers that specifically target the soul, rather than all instances of Magecraft

Looking at this a second time, it's something that needs to be changed. Though I'm not really sure what to. The Magecraft section is mainly used to show the resistances a Servant gets from Magic Resistance. I suggest grouping them all up as one, and adding a point at the top akin to this.

• Servants, just like Phantasmal Beasts and Dead Apostles, have innate resistance to Magecraft due to their high rank in Mystery. Due to the soul's nature as a higher-dimensional form, powers and abilities that target the mind, soul and memories require Interdimensional range to be interacted with.

It's 2 am, and I just got back from a 12 hour shift so apologies if this doesn't make sense/wasn't clear.

Yeah, that doesn't really change my issue with the exact justification, though I'll wait to see how Breeze justifies it before really making any judgment
tldr; Magecraft/mysteries were argued to be 4D, due to their multiple feats of messing with higher dimensions + drawing upon the (what used to be, and could still be) higher-dimensional soul, and thus things dependent on it we're also 4D
Even without the standard changes the exact way the resistances worked would've had to change, but as it is rn, the soul existing within a higher dimension only really makes it so things which need to interact with the soul need have to have 4D reach, if the soul were dimensioned, and 4D at that, you could maybe argue otherwise, but I'm not privvy to the arguments for whether or not the soul qualifies on that end or not, and if Magecraft would qualify under our smurf hax requirments (and if the hax in question would actually be 4D potency wise rather than nature wise, but that's getting into the weeds of stuff that can be saved for the eventual Magecraft page)
Also, the range needed for it would be Interdimensional, not Extradimensional. Extradimensional is used for like "small scale" 2-C and up range; interdimensional is only from reaching from one dimension into another. Affecting small-scale 4D (beyond the typical universe) stuff is included in that.

Yeah I'll save that for the Magecraft page, It's not my specialty. Interdimensional range sounds good.

 

[Vietthai96]

That why you shouldn't rush this page, should have a Magecraft and Authority page

 

[BreezeHM]

That why you shouldn't rush this page, should have a Magecraft and Authority page

Rushed Page? You don’t need to make a separate page and drop everything at once to update something to standards. The current authority is sufficient, haven’t seen any complaints about it.

 

[Deonment]

Alright, I've updated the Sandbox with majority of the suggestions.


Looking at this a second time, it's something that needs to be changed. Though I'm not really sure what to. The Magecraft section is mainly used to show the resistances a Servant gets from Magic Resistance. I suggest grouping them all up as one, and adding a point at the top akin to this.

It's 2 am, and I just got back from a 12 hour shift so apologies if this doesn't make sense/wasn't clear.


Yeah I'll save that for the Magecraft page, It's not my specialty. Interdimensional range sounds good.

Yeah that looks good

 

[ShiftCtrlAltDeleteTabFn]

Dude, Divine Spirit should not have type 9, i already said it, Divine Spirit exist in the Reverse Side of the World, how can they have type 9 when themselves already exist in the place for type 9?, it is like saying Heroic Spirit have type 9 due to the Throne of Heroes, but they already existing in the Throne.

Type 9 is for avatar, not the trueself, and Servant have type 9 because they are the container that have information of Heroic Spirit in the Throne thus they act like avatar

Oh, I'm stupid. I thought we were talking about their Avatars. Sorry about that.

Also shouldn't FSN Saber be excluded from this whole type 9 immortality?, she was literally still alive when she was summoned and went to Avalon after death, of course there is still a record of her in the Throne

She should probably still have it since, even though she's alive, her real body is still located at the Battle of Camlann while her Servant self tries to fulfil her contract and obtain the Holy Grail.

That's something more specific, I wouldn't put that on the Physiology page, but on their profile. Since there'll be people like Godjuna, Skadi, Zeus etc. that have the physiology.

Ok.

Sure, do you have the scans?

Q: When Archer was able to materialize in the final battle, was it because of sheer willpower that he held on like Karna, or was it because he received a lot of energy from Caster?

Nasu: He was already running on fumes, but that aside, that Heroic Spirit knows his home turf best. He did stuff like hunting game for their energy-rich guts in the Einzbern Forest, getting to all of his hidden stashes of Mystic Codes he'd hidden around Fuyuki, using super secret techniques to somehow maintain the shooting power of his bow, yes indeed.

- Unlimited Blade Works animation material II

(I'm pretty sure the "game" here are spirits, but I could be wrong on that).

Divine Spirits Empowerment will be added, need the scan for the servant one.

If you keep watching the video I linked, Pepe does mention Fame Boosts (though, there are other scans out there that I should look for).

Nice, good addition.

Thanks.

That's fine, and they already have resistance to Physics Manipulation on their page, but we can add onto it.

You better, I spent way, way too long gathering those scans.

I wouldn't give them Physics Manipulation. It's something that came into existence with the Age of Man, the gods are unaware of it.

I was going off of the logic that they (Divine Spirits) were the equivalent of the laws of physics during the Age of Gods, but fair enough.

Connection to the Root? I think we may need more context on this scene.

That's basically the context. Divine Spirits are connected to the Root, which is why Mages in the Age of Gods didn't need to try and reach it since their magecraft basically just invoked a god's power, and those gods were connected to the Root. (Basically, mages were "closer" to the Root back then).

The context for the scene is basically the climax of The Lord El-Melloi II Case Files. The main antagonist, Doctor Heartless, is trying to make a new god for mages to essentially recreate the Age of Gods, which, as mentioned above, means mages don't really need to try to reach the Root anymore. He attempted to do this by summoning Faker (she's a Fate OC, but she's supposed to be the secret twin sister of Hephaestion, who was one of Iskander's generals and his best friend, but she herself was used as a body double for Iskander to redirect curses away from him), taking her down into the deepest part of Spirit Tomb Albion (which is the corpse of the Dragon, Albion) since it is the place that is the most similar to the Age of Gods anywhere on Earth, then he would use the magecraft of Norikata Emiya (Heartless stole his Magic Crest, Magic Circuits, and nervous system from the Sealing Designation office in the Clock Tower) to speed up time for Faker so he could simulate thousands of years of worship for her, which he would use alongside her connection to Iskander (and a ton of Magical Energy he was siphoning from many people he gave special tokens to, essentially making them pseudo-Masters of Faker) to ascend her into Divine Spirit Iskander.

This scene is when Faker just ascends to Divine Spirit-hood and connects to the Root, which allows her to see back through time through her own history to connect to Iskander again.

I hope that made sense.

This would only apply to Cu.

That's fair.

I wouldn't list this as an ability, it'd be like giving someone energy manipulation for being able to control the amount of strength in their punches.

I feel like I've seen something like this on other profiles (not your example, but the scene I mentioned), so I thought it was worth bringing up.

Additions will be added tomorrow.

Should stuff Servants gain from resisting Luck checks and resisting curses go on the page, or should those go on those individual Servants' pages?

Also, are you going to add scans for the Authority resistances section?

 

[BreezeHM]

Q: When Archer was able to materialize in the final battle, was it because of sheer willpower that he held on like Karna, or was it because he received a lot of energy from Caster?

Nasu: He was already running on fumes, but that aside, that Heroic Spirit knows his home turf best. He did stuff like hunting game for their energy-rich guts in the Einzbern Forest, getting to all of his hidden stashes of Mystic Codes he'd hidden around Fuyuki, using super secret techniques to somehow maintain the shooting power of his bow, yes indeed.

- Unlimited Blade Works animation material II

(I'm pretty sure the "game" here are spirits, but I could be wrong on that).

The context makes it Spirit instead of normal animals. Will add.

If you keep watching the video I linked, Pepe does mention Fame Boosts (though, there are other scans out there that I should look for).

Yeah I added Empowerment to Divine Spirits and Servants.

You better, I spent way, way too long gathering those scans.

Thank you for your service

That's basically the context. Divine Spirits are connected to the Root, which is why Mages in the Age of Gods didn't need to try and reach it since their magecraft basically just invoked a god's power, and those gods were connected to the Root. (Basically, mages were "closer" to the Root back then).

The context for the scene is basically the climax of The Lord El-Melloi II Case Files. The main antagonist, Doctor Heartless, is trying to make a new god for mages to essentially recreate the Age of Gods, which, as mentioned above, means mages don't really need to try to reach the Root anymore. He attempted to do this by summoning Faker (she's a Fate OC, but she's supposed to be the secret twin sister of Hephaestion, who was one of Iskander's generals and his best friend, but she herself was used as a body double for Iskander to redirect curses away from him), taking her down into the deepest part of Spirit Tomb Albion (which is the corpse of the Dragon, Albion) since it is the place that is the most similar to the Age of Gods anywhere on Earth, then he would use the magecraft of Norikata Emiya (Heartless stole his Magic Crest, Magic Circuits, and nervous system from the Sealing Designation office in the Clock Tower) to speed up time for Faker so he could simulate thousands of years of worship for her, which he would use alongside her connection to Iskander (and a ton of Magical Energy he was siphoning from many people he gave special tokens to, essentially making them pseudo-Masters of Faker) to ascend her into Divine Spirit Iskander.

This scene is when Faker just ascends to Divine Spirit-hood and connects to the Root, which allows her to see back through time through her own history to connect to Iskander again.

I hope that made sense.

Yeah I get it. We can make it Retrocognition and Clairvoyance.

I feel like I've seen something like this on other profiles (not your example, but the scene I mentioned), so I thought it was worth bringing up.

To me, it just looks like people listing abilities for the sake of listing them.

Should stuff Servants gain from resisting Luck checks and resisting curses go on the page, or should those go on those individual Servants' pages?

Depends on how it was resisted and who resisted it.

Also, are you going to add scans for the Authority resistances section?

Yeah, just wanted to see what people think of the Authority Section before a full commit.

 

[Re5yh]

I agree with proposal

 

[Hasty12345]

Can I get a TLDR on why Divine Spirits have servant physiology?

 

[BreezeHM]

Can I get a TLDR on why Divine Spirits have servant physiology?

Because they can be summoned as Servants, they share 98% of the same abilities, so you'd just end up with another page with the same justifications all over again, with just their own additions.

 

[Hasty12345]

Because they can be summoned as Servants, they share 98% of the same abilities, so you'd just end up with another page with the same justifications all over again, with just their own additions.

So they are separate and it's not an inherent of divine spirits?

It should say "For divine spirits summoned as servants", otherwise it's a bit misleading.

 

[Maniaunavailable]

Are the ultimate gods (ORT for example) gonna have their own page?

 

[BreezeHM]

So they are separate and it's not an inherent of divine spirits?

It should say "For divine spirits summoned as servants", otherwise it's a bit misleading.

Apologise, I should've worded it better. Divine Spirits are Servants. A Divine Spirit is essentially their degraded form from being a god.

 

[BreezeHM]

Are the ultimate gods (ORT for example) gonna have their own page?

No. They're not relevant enough nor is there enough of them to warrant their own page.

 

[Hasty12345]

Apologise, I should've worded it better. Divine Spirits are Servants. A Divine Spirit is essentially their degraded form from being a god.

Ok, it's probably worth just linking those scans in the "All Abilities of Servant Physiology in addition to:" part, so it's clear to those not well informed on the verse.

 

[Vietthai96]

Apologise, I should've worded it better. Divine Spirits are Servants. A Divine Spirit is essentially their degraded form from being a god.

No they aren't. They can be summoned as Servant yes, but Servant are simply container that can hold Heroic Spirit or Divine Spirit.

Divine Spirit are degraded form of God, but that is because the Age of Gods ended thus weakened God, they degraded into Spirit and moved to the Reverse Side of the World

Divine Spirit-class Servant is Divine Spirit summoned into Servant. If you want to rename, then rename Divine Spirit Physiology into Divine Spirit-class Servant, but they will not have AE1, HGR, HDE because they inhabiting a Servant body which is a container. And they Immortality type 9 need to have their own reason due to their trueself exists in the Reverse Side of the World, write them having the samw type 9 as Servant mean their trueself somehow exists in Throne of Heroes which is completely wrong

I could come of as being too harsh, but I said it multiple time, DS while having multiple similar hax as Servant, their reasoning are different.

 

[BreezeHM]

No they aren't. They can be summoned as Servant yes, but Servant are simply container that can hold Heroic Spirit or Divine Spirit.

This doesn’t change anything. There’s no divine spirit in the story that isn’t a servant. There’s no way for them to come to the surface without being one.

Divine Spirit are degraded form of God, but that is because the Age of Gods ended thus weakened God, they degraded into Spirit and moved to the Reverse Side of the World

Divine Spirit-class Servant is Divine Spirit summoned into Servant. If you want to rename, then rename Divine Spirit Physiology into Divine Spirit-class Servant, but they will not have AE1, HGR, HDE because they inhabiting a Servant body which is a container.

Like I said above, there are no Divine Spirits that appear on the surface without being a Servant. Changing the name is what brings confusion, as people will start wonder about the difference between Divine Spirits and Divine Spirit-Class Servants, when the only difference is their true selves being in the Reverse Side of The World. They have little to none relevance, we’re not a wiki page that explains everything about a verse’s terminology. And what you’re saying about them not having their godly abilities is flat out wrong. If that was the case, they wouldn’t be able to access even a little of their authorities. Additionally, Ibuki-Douji when summoned as a Divine Spirit was still referred to as a Conceptual God, same with Kama. Despite Yaguu being capable of cutting Kama thanks to the conceptual sword, Yaguu needed Parvati to actually finish her. Divine Spirits when summoned still possess their Divine Core.

And they Immortality type 9 need to have their own reason due to their trueself exists in the Reverse Side of the World, write them having the samw type 9 as Servant mean their trueself somehow exists in Throne of Heroes which is completely wrong

I agree with you on this.

I could come of as being too harsh, but I said it multiple time, DS while having multiple similar hax as Servant, their reasoning are different.

What else besides the Type 9 could warrant them having their own page?

 

[Vietthai96]

And what you’re saying about them not having their godly abilities is flat out wrong. If that was the case, they wouldn’t be able to access even a little of their authorities. Additionally, Ibuki-Douji when summoned as a Divine Spirit was still referred to as a Conceptual God, same with Kama. Despite Yaguu being capable of cutting Kama thanks to the conceptual sword, Yaguu needed Parvati to actually finish her. Divine Spirits when summoned still possess their Divine Core.

I didn't say they didn't have access to their abilities, i said they will not have some. I conceded on HGR but AE1, HDE are still their trueself, in order to appear as Servant, they still need a class container, the Servant container isn't AE1 or HDE

Like I said above, there are no Divine Spirits that appear on the surface without being a Servant.

Dude, you are twisting the lore, even if they doesn't appear on surface with their trueself, doesn't mean you can say Divine Spirit inhabiting servant container as their trueself. Literally you wrote the section Divine Spirit Physiology, implies they aren't servant.....

What else besides the Type 9 could warrant them having their own page?

They are fundamentally two different existences with almost completely different reason for their abilities. And no, don't use that excuse of "we're just powerscaling stuffs and they have similar abilities so it is fine", what you wrote on the page implying Divine Spirit is an upgraded version of Servant and they are the same being fundamentally

Also you separate DS with Servant directly on a single page?. If you don't want a separate page?

 

[BreezeHM]

I didn't say they didn't have access to their abilities, i said they will not have some. I conceded on HGR but AE1, HDE are still their trueself, in order to appear as Servant, they still need a class container, the Servant container isn't AE1 or HDE

Hmmm. I see your point but I disagree with this. Someone can correct me if I'm wrong but, Kiara reached the level of True Demons (HDE Stuff) after evolving into the Earth Mother Goddess by consuming the Sakura Five. with The Sakura Five, having the Divine Cores of various goddesses. And for AE1, even when summoned they're still Conceptual. The Divine Core would be the basis for all of this, as it is their entire existence and what separates them from being a Servant. I'd be open to your views if you have scans for why they wouldn't though, since I can see your point.

Dude, you are twisting the lore, even if they doesn't appear on surface with their trueself, doesn't mean you can say Divine Spirit inhabiting servant container as their trueself. Literally you wrote the section Divine Spirit Physiology, implies they aren't servant.....

I never claimed Divine Spirits summoned as Servants are their true selves. Divine Spirits are Servants, but Servants are not Divine Spirits. It's just a one way street. I can see why you get that conclusion, however the page's name is Servant Physiology. Logically, you would assume that a Divine Spirit is a type of Servant as it is a header under the page Servant Physiology. The Servant Physiology Summary states that Servants are typically Heroic Spirits, while the Divine Spirit Page doesn't indicate the such, it can be added if needed.

They are fundamentally two different existences with almost completely different reason for their abilities. And no, don't use that excuse of "we're just powerscaling stuffs and they have similar abilities so it is fine", what you wrote on the page implying Divine Spirit is an upgraded version of Servant and they are the same being fundamentally

What I said above pretty much answers this. If someone misunderstands the page, that's completely on them. Divine Spirit Physiology doesn’t mean they aren’t Servants, it just means they aren’t only Servants. A Divine Spirit in its natural state is a god. When summoned, they become a Divine Spirit Servant and gain Servant attributes. One doesn’t cancel out the other.

Also you separate DS with Servant directly on a single page?. If you don't want a separate page?

No.

 

[ShiftCtrlAltDeleteTabFn]

The context makes it Spirit instead of normal animals. Will add.

Cool.

Yeah I added Empowerment to Divine Spirits and Servants.

Great.

Thank you for your service

You're welcome. I have no idea why, but it legitimately took me hours to get those scans.

Yeah I get it. We can make it Retrocognition and Clairvoyance.

Artemis seems to foreshadow Okeanos, which could be an additional justification for Clairvoyance, but, just before this, she does say she doesn't know when she'll meet Mash and Ritsuka again, so maybe not.

Anyway, I'm not entirely sure what happens here, but Artemis brings Mash and Ritsuka back into the Singularity, and then talks about how she "virtually proved causality" and then transported Chaldea's dumplings into the Orleans Singularity, and then she says the dumplings are a manifestation of faith in the Moon and "woke her up?" I'm not sure what to make of that last part.

To me, it just looks like people listing abilities for the sake of listing them.

That's what we do; we are an indexing site, after all. It's not the only instance of something like this; Servants can get drunk, but only if they choose to.

Depends on how it was resisted and who resisted it.

Jeanne survives Jack's Maria the Ripper, and Tamamo repels Kingprotea's Infantile Regression. Jack's Maria the Ripper can be resisted by having resistance to Curses. Archer can resist the curse of the Grail Mud because he's not a pure Heroic Spirit. That should give resistance to Curse Manipulation, Causality Manipulation, Death Manipulation, Age Manipulation, and Corruption to Servants who can resist Curses, right?

We already accept Servants being able to survive Gae Bolg if they have a Luck stat of B or higher, and we accept that Servants with high enough Mana/MP stats can resist Medusa's Mystic Eyes of Petrification, and we also accept that having a high Luck and/or Mana/MP stat can also allow a Servant to survive Scathach's Gate of Sky (though, that should also give them resistance to Death Manipulation).

Yeah, just wanted to see what people think of the Authority Section before a full commit.

Ok.

 

[ShinyHax]

No for Servants, they'll still die if their Head or heart is destroyed.

I just wanted to clarify that this isn't entirely true. The heart and head are "vulnerable" parts of a Servant's body, not "fatal." Depending on the energy they consume, a Servant can ignore their destruction or injury.

 

[BreezeHM]

Thought I replied to this, my fault.

Artemis seems to foreshadow Okeanos, which could be an additional justification for Clairvoyance, but, just before this, she does say she doesn't know when she'll meet Mash and Ritsuka again, so maybe not.

That's just Artemis saying they'll see each other again soon, the seas part is just pure coincidence to me. Especially with the Mash statement.

Anyway, I'm not entirely sure what happens here, but Artemis brings Mash and Ritsuka back into the Singularity, and then talks about how she "virtually proved causality" and then transported Chaldea's dumplings into the Orleans Singularity, and then she says the dumplings are a manifestation of faith in the Moon and "woke her up?" I'm not sure what to make of that last part.

My interpretation is that Artemis was summoned by Ritsuka gathering dumplings, and because the dumplings are a manifestation of faith in the Moon, it connected them together which caused her summoning, even though she was summoned before Ritsuka gathered it. Ties into what Romani said at the beginning of the reversal of causality. This is more something specific to Artemis.

That's what we do; we are an indexing site, after all. It's not the only instance of something like this; Servants can get drunk, but only if they choose to.

I mean sure, but when you list abilities like that, people reading it are just gonna say "wtf?"

Jeanne survives Jack's Maria the Ripper, and Tamamo repels Kingprotea's Infantile Regression. Jack's Maria the Ripper can be resisted by having resistance to Curses. Archer can resist the curse of the Grail Mud because he's not a pure Heroic Spirit. That should give resistance to Curse Manipulation, Causality Manipulation, Death Manipulation, Age Manipulation, and Corruption to Servants who can resist Curses, right?

No. If you resist the Curse itself, then you wouldn't be resisting the affects of the curses, since they wouldn't have affected you in the first place. Servant's already resist all these though.

We already accept Servants being able to survive Gae Bolg if they have a Luck stat of B or higher, and we accept that Servants with high enough Mana/MP stats can resist Medusa's Mystic Eyes of Petrification, and we also accept that having a high Luck and/or Mana/MP stat can also allow a Servant to survive Scathach's Gate of Sky (though, that should also give them resistance to Death Manipulation).

They have resistance to death manipulation

 

[ShiftCtrlAltDeleteTabFn]

Thought I replied to this, my fault.

You're good.

That's just Artemis saying they'll see each other again soon, the seas part is just pure coincidence to me. Especially with the Mash statement.

Yeah, I had a feeling that was the case.

My interpretation is that Artemis was summoned by Ritsuka gathering dumplings, and because the dumplings are a manifestation of faith in the Moon, it connected them together which caused her summoning, even though she was summoned before Ritsuka gathered it. Ties into what Romani said at the beginning of the reversal of causality. This is more something specific to Artemis.

That's fair; though, it seems like this can happen with other gods too, just with different things and rituals.

I mean sure, but when you list abilities like that, people reading it are just gonna say "wtf?"

Yeah, but that's what we do. Hell, some profiles have light manipulation because they use a flashlight, so I don't think this is too weird.

No. If you resist the Curse itself, then you wouldn't be resisting the affects of the curses, since they wouldn't have affected you in the first place.

Wait, really? Is that how that works?

Servant's already resist all these though.

Yeah, but it would be layered since these can affect Servants that don't resist curses (and these curses can bypass Magic Resistance, if I recall correctly).

They have resistance to death manipulation

Yeah, but it would be layered since Scáthach's Gate of Skye can kill Servants who don't pass the Luck and/or Mana check.

 

[BreezeHM]

That's fair; though, it seems like this can happen with other gods too, just with different things and rituals.

Yeah I'd say something similar since from Romani + Da Vinci explaining it has to be a Divine Spirit doing so.

Yeah, but that's what we do. Hell, some profiles have light manipulation because they use a flashlight, so I don't think this is too weird.

Wait, really? Is that how that works?

Yes.

Yeah, but it would be layered since these can affect Servants that don't resist curses (and these curses can bypass Magic Resistance, if I recall correctly).

Yeah, but it would be layered since Scáthach's Gate of Skye can kill Servants who don't pass the Luck and/or Mana check.

I don't think we should get into layers right now since people will start adding their own layer scaling to the thread, but I'll keep note of it.

 

[ShiftCtrlAltDeleteTabFn]

Yeah I'd say something similar since from Romani + Da Vinci explaining it has to be a Divine Spirit doing so.

Cool.

That's how we do things, I guess.

Yes.

Ok.

I don't think we should get into layers right now since people will start adding their own layer scaling to the thread, but I'll keep note of it.

That's a good idea.

 

[Violetcyanide]

1. Conceptual Manipulation From Servants: Servant's had Conceptual Manipulation because they could affect the soul which contain the concept of a Servant.

Wouldn't being able to damage someone concept still count as concept manipulation

3. 4D Hax & Invulnerability Removal: Servants had 4D Invulnerability because of this: "Magecraft's nature as magical energy from the soul given form, and the Soul's nature as a higher dimensional form, the resistances and effects listed thereof are at least 4 dimensional in nature. "

I thought it was mystery that made servants invulnerable,even if magecraft looses it's smurf due to not having a 4d soul,doesn't that just downgrade the invulnerability to 3d