League of Legends Tier 8/7 Revision

[ShrekAlmighty]

Hextech on its own has like eight tier 7 feats. And its going to be a lot more prevalent with 2XKO going live soon.

Found the picture

As for the description

Shadow and Fortune: Chapter One

leagueoflegends.fandom.com

"They'd berthed in Bilgewater, hoping to sell the carcass and strip it of battle trophies; vast teeth, black blood that burned like oil, and titanic rib-bones fit to roof his mother’s hall.

His fellow tribesmen, exhausted from the hunt, were sleeping aboard Winter's Kiss, but Olaf, ever impatient, could not rest. Instead, he took up his glittering axe and set to work in dismembering the colossal monster.

Finally he saw the beast’s inner maw, a ribbed gullet large enough to swallow a clan whole or crush a thirty-oar Longreaver in a single bite. Its teeth were chiseled fangs like obsidian boulders."

I have no idea whcih hextech feats you are talking about considering most of piltover/zaun established lore is not even canon anymore due to arcane, and regardless, they all would scale to their own stuff and sometimes what makes sense. Scaling Seraphine's radio or Graves Shotgun to Queen Council is not something that makes sense as examples.

Pretty sizeable then, although i dont know about it being that high in Tier 7, still pretty large though obviously.

 

[hippoishungry]

"They'd berthed in Bilgewater, hoping to sell the carcass and strip it of battle trophies; vast teeth, black blood that burned like oil, and titanic rib-bones fit to roof his mother’s hall.

His fellow tribesmen, exhausted from the hunt, were sleeping aboard Winter's Kiss, but Olaf, ever impatient, could not rest. Instead, he took up his glittering axe and set to work in dismembering the colossal monster.

Finally he saw the beast’s inner maw, a ribbed gullet large enough to swallow a clan whole or crush a thirty-oar Longreaver in a single bite. Its teeth were chiseled fangs like obsidian boulders."

bambu actually talked about this earlier btw

 

[WeeklyBattles]

I have no idea whcih hextech feats you are talking about considering most of piltover/zaun established lore is not even canon anymore due to arcane, and regardless, they all would scale to their own stuff and sometimes what makes sense. Scaling Seraphine's radio or Graves Shotgun to Queen Council is not something that makes sense as examples.

Viktor and Ziggs' hextech blowing up mountains, Ekko's tech dispersing a storm, etc.

Pretty sizeable then, although i dont know about it being that high in Tier 7, still pretty large though obviously.

Its that coupled with it being described as moving 'in the blink of an eye'.

bambu actually talked about this earlier btw

Neat. Im still bringing it up now so it can be redone and applied. Better to have someone who knows the verse rather than someone making assumptions by just looking in from the outside.

 

[ShrekAlmighty]

Viktor and Ziggs' hextech blowing up mountains, Ekko's tech dispersing a storm, etc.

Its that coupled with it being described as moving 'in the blink of an eye'.

Neat. Im still bringing it up now so it can be redone and applied. Better to have someone who knows the verse rather than someone making assumptions by just looking in from the outside.

Are you talking about the card effect destroying any landmark, because that is very obviously not something usable enough to be anything other than a mention if that. Ekko again no idea when it happened but, same thing scaling wise and if it happened in a story it wouldnt even be canon because we know everything Ekko did with the Z-drive with Arcane. (Cant be argued to be offscreen because he never had Z-drive except for the last 3 episodes and we know very specifically what he was doing)

 

[WeeklyBattles]

Are you talking about the card effect destroying any landmark, because that is very obviously not something usable enough to be anything other than a mention if that.

...Didnt you bring up using LoR stuff for Vayne earlier?

Ekko again no idea when it happened but, same thing scaling wise and if it happened in a story it wouldnt even be canon because we know everything Ekko did with the Z-drive with Arcane. (Cant be argued to be offscreen because he never had Z-drive except for the last 3 episodes and we know very specifically what he was doing)

It happened in the final battle with Viktor in Arcane.

 

[ShrekAlmighty]

...Didnt you bring up using LoR stuff for Vayne earlier?

It happened in the final battle with Viktor in Arcane.

There is a giant difference between Vayne using an ability in her level up animation. And a "demolish card effect" to scale it to the biggest landmark. By that logic, any unit with higher HP than Zoe (a total of 1) would be more durable than Zoe. Or Leona having mind control because she has challenger and can control who attacks her.

If Viktor's laser was destroying a valley in its art or flavor text described it, obviously it could be used.

Sure but again, a self destruct of both the Z drive and "the anomaly" is not scaling to other hextech.

 

[Ozcantabak]

I dont remember well enough what exactly Vex buffed except specifically the ruination, so i guess id have to read back up on it.

It's on her bio.

I dont really think so, if the best argument is "we dont like it" then thats not really a proper argument. Not only do they all seemingly get new abilities but the event takes place over several months going by the journal. Its very easy to argue they either got amped up (which we literally see Vayne using magic in LoR level up for example) or they just got stronger. Some of them technically wouldnt even need to get stronger since they dont have concrete scaling to begin with

"We don't like it" isn't the best arguement of course, they can be just weak to said weapon's attacks, they don't need to completely ignore their durability. It's stated several times in the SoL event that only the sentinel weapons can kill the wraiths. Yeah Vayne can use magic because sentinel weapons channels the weapon holders soul into light, not because she learned magic herself. For Panhteon I don't think anyone, other than Diana, is meant to scale to his attacks, i mean whenever he swings at them the sentinals just folds, only Diana is able to match him and her sentinal skin description says the only way to fight an Aspect's power is with another Aspect.

 

[ShrekAlmighty]

It's on her bio.

"We don't like it" isn't the best arguement of course, they can be just weak to said weapon's attacks, they don't need to completely ignore their durability. It's stated several times in the SoL event that only the sentinel weapons can kill the wraiths. Yeah Vayne can use magic because sentinel weapons channels the weapon holders soul into light, not that she learned magic herself. For Panhteon I don't think anyone, other than Diana, is meant to scale to his attacks, i mean whenever he swings at them the sentinals just folds, only Diana is able to match him and her sentinal skin description says the only way to fight an Aspect's power is with another Aspect.

I see, my bad.

Again, we know its not even that big of a "durability ignore", because Shyvana did not get hurt by them, so they would have to scale to some amount, but the bigger thing is them taking direct attacks from Pantheon and others. Diana's statement is also just very flowery language about her taking up weapons. And we also factually know you dont need an aspect to beat an aspect considering Aatrox killed "Pantheon".

So again like, all the arguments there are mostly "we dont like it." I personally dont like a lot of stuff but it would be unfair to ignore it for those who have direct feats of tanking and fighting against same characters (its not actually all sentinels because not all of them were around at Targon for example)

 

[WeeklyBattles]

Again, we know its not even that big of a "durability ignore", because Shyvana did not get hurt by them, so they would have to scale to some amount, but the bigger thing is them taking direct attacks from Pantheon and others. Diana's statement is also just very flowery language about her taking up weapons. And we also factually know you dont need an aspect to beat an aspect considering Aatrox killed "Pantheon".

Which is weird because Shyvana was hurt by Vayne's normal weapons

 

[ShrekAlmighty]

Which is weird because Shyvana was hurt by Vayne's normal weapons

Well it would only support the idea that Sentinel weapons arent a full durability ignore, and are valid to scale

 

[WeeklyBattles]

Well it would only support the idea that Sentinel weapons arent a full durability ignore, and are valid to scale

Makes it even better seeing as Sylas was able to 2v1 a bloodlusted Jarvan and a bloodlusted Shyvana and won.

 

[ShrekAlmighty]

Makes it even better seeing as Sylas was able to 2v1 a bloodlusted Jarvan and a bloodlusted Shyvana and won.

regular shyvana should not scale to Ruined Shyvana, her just transforming made the demacian palace made of petricite start crumbling. And basically everyone transformed by it got buffed heavily.

 

[Ozcantabak]

So what do you suggest, give the sentinel and ruined champions new keys ?

 

[ShrekAlmighty]

So what do you suggest, give the sentinel and ruined champions new keys ?

Yeap more or less, i mean Ruined champions got buffed and clearly Sentinel ones either dont really have too clear scaling in general (Like Vayne) so its juts her scaling, or they are performing stuff vastly above what they normally do, there is either a timeskip as a reason or just sentinel weapons which again work with ones soul as you mentioned.

Now it wouldnt be everyone, because for example, Rengar and Ruined Draven never did legit anything (that i remembeR) but those that have feats should get new keys imo, there arent really any inconsistencies or ruined scaling that way.

 

[WeeklyBattles]

regular shyvana should not scale to Ruined Shyvana, her just transforming made the demacian palace made of petricite start crumbling. And basically everyone transformed by it got buffed heavily.

Oh is that how we're doing it? Fair enough then

Should still be pretty notable considering Shyvana is stated to be equal in power to Kadregrin the Infernal who was able to melt or outright vaporize part of a mountain range

 

[ShrekAlmighty]

Oh is that how we're doing it? Fair enough then

Should still be pretty notable considering Shyvana is stated to be equal in power to Kadregrin the Infernal who was able to melt or outright vaporize part of a mountain range

Yea i mean it is still very notable, more notably he does also fight Nocturne in it, which btw i do think Sylas could also have 2 keys, since in one he has Morgana's blessing, early one well he cant beat garen (game starts by him losing) either way they are at similar level, and then later on you can beat Nocturne who is obviously at a higher level compared to Garen from their encounter.

Anyways would have two tiers even if not two keys, but also uh your image is not really working for me, can you open it from your own link?

 

[WeeklyBattles]

Yea i mean it is still very notable, more notably he does also fight Nocturne in it, which btw i do think Sylas could also have 2 keys, since in one he has Morgana's blessing, early one well he cant beat garen (game starts by him losing) either way they are at similar level, and then later on you can beat Nocturne who is obviously at a higher level compared to Garen from their encounter.

Does Warriors take place before or after Mageseeker? Because he pretty easily beat Garen in that fight

Anyways would have two tiers even if not two keys, but also uh your image is not really working for me, can you open it from your own link?

It worked for me yeah

Dragon

The word Dragon is, within the Multiverse, an umbrella term that refers to all the beings with reptilian morphology that come from the draconic lineage. Creatures that fall under this term can be split between Celestial Dragons or Terrestrial Dragons by way of their origins. The "sub-species"...

leagueoflegends.fandom.com

Does this work?

 

[ShrekAlmighty]

Does Warriors take place before or after Mageseeker? Because he pretty easily beat Garen in that fight

It worked for me yeah

https://static.wikia.nocookie.net/leagueoflegends/images/1/15/03DE008-full.png/revision/latest?cb=20201015065457

Does this work?

Mageseeker is much before Warriors, the game starts with Sylas' original escape, where he first loses to Garen, then the game takes place right up until he and the mages go to Freljord, and you do also beat Garen in a later on bossfight (near end of game) after you have Morgana's blessing (Its a temporary boost where he can use her powers more than a permanent one though)

Hmmm no still does not work for me, odd Edit: It works after resetting the site.

 

[WeeklyBattles]

Mageseeker is much before Warriors, the game starts with Sylas' original escape, where he first loses to Garen, then the game takes place right up until he and the mages go to Freljord, and you do also beat Garen in a later on bossfight (near end of game) after you have Morgana's blessing (Its a temporary boost where he can use her powers more than a permanent one though)

Makes sense

Hmmm no still does not work for me, odd

Dragon

The word Dragon is, within the Multiverse, an umbrella term that refers to all the beings with reptilian morphology that come from the draconic lineage. Creatures that fall under this term can be split between Celestial Dragons or Terrestrial Dragons by way of their origins. The "sub-species"...

leagueoflegends.fandom.com

How about this?

 

[ShrekAlmighty]

Makes sense

Dragon

The word Dragon is, within the Multiverse, an umbrella term that refers to all the beings with reptilian morphology that come from the draconic lineage. Creatures that fall under this term can be split between Celestial Dragons or Terrestrial Dragons by way of their origins. The "sub-species"...

leagueoflegends.fandom.com

How about this?

It started working after i reset the site just, didnt edit it quick enough, my bad on that. Its fine but could be hard to get as a feat since we dont know how long it took him to burn it. Or well, hard to get a calc for it for that reason.

 

[Ozcantabak]

Now it wouldnt be everyone, because for example, Rengar and Ruined Draven never did legit anything (that i remembeR) but those that have feats should get new keys imo, there arent really any inconsistencies or ruined scaling that way.

Don't everyone legit fight each other at the very end ?

Yeap more or less, i mean Ruined champions got buffed and clearly Sentinel ones either dont really have too clear scaling in general (Like Vayne) so its juts her scaling, or they are performing stuff vastly above what they normally do, there is either a timeskip as a reason or just sentinel weapons which again work with ones soul as you mentioned.

So no new keys for Luci, Senna, Vayne and new keys for Diana, Ire, Olaf, Riven, Graves, Pyke, MF, Karma, Shy, Panth (and maybe Draven and Rengar^).

 

[Ozcantabak]

What abilities would Sentinel, Ruined champions get, respectively ?

 

[WeeklyBattles]

It started working after i reset the site just, didnt edit it quick enough, my bad on that. Its fine but could be hard to get as a feat since we dont know how long it took him to burn it. Or well, hard to get a calc for it for that reason.

No worries

Considering basically every depiction of dragons attacking with fire breath has them breathing it in a straight line, i think its fairly safe to assume it was just one gout of fire.

 

[ShrekAlmighty]

Don't everyone legit fight each other at the very end ?

So no new keys for Luci, Senna, Vayne and new keys for Diana, Ire, Olaf, Riven, Graves, Pyke, MF, Karma, Shy, Panth (and maybe Draven and Rengar^).

Yesn't.. we dont know if all the ruined champions are there and it is kinda offscreen, likewise the fight ends abruptly because "Akshan revives Viego" and then everything turns back normal. So you could argue for it but its also not as concrete.

Uhh, Lucian and Senna i am not sure, they probably should get new ones or at least Lucian since normally he is below thresh who is well not scaling to Viego (until he becomes unbound at end of event). Senna doesnt have anything against it and same with Vayne so, the two of them would just be that strong normally.

Riven, Irelia, Diana, Olaf, Shyv, Pyke, Mf, Panth, Karma do get new keys though yes.

Graves also shouldnt because like Rengar he appeared after Targon and hasnt done anything much specifically.

Edit: Oh also Gwen would be in the same boat as Senna/Vayne, because ,yea.

 

[ShrekAlmighty]

What abilities would Sentinel, Ruined champions get, respectively ?

Hmm well Ruined champions should get general immortality that practically every wraith gets and then all the other normal accompanying abilities. Pantheon would also get summoning because he showed being able to summon other wraiths himself (Sure others could arguably due it too but its not proven)

All Sentinel champions would get the accompanying light, purification and similar other stuff, with any specific stuff being added too, like Vayne being able to create "light constructs" or i guess Irelia being able to levitate anything now.

But all of this can be discussed later

 

[ShrekAlmighty]

No worries

Considering basically every depiction of dragons attacking with fire breath has them breathing it in a straight line, i think its fairly safe to assume it was just one gout of fire.

I am cool with that, but just no idea if it will fly in a calc, fair is fair though its a good feat either way.

 

[ShrekAlmighty]

For now, how about we focus down what we wanna do, @WeeklyBattles if you dont find it a problem could you collect any uncalced feats, or calcs that you think can still be argued to be fit into this discussion?

While i can start working on the sandbox profiles for some of the sentinel/ruined champions that wouldn't be affected by further revisions anyways (Pantheon, Diana, Senna, Gwen, Vayne). Doesnt make sense to do others for now because their normal keys would still get changed in future based on this thread and whatnot, while these are independant and could be applied soon.

 

[Apollonir.Scale]

I admire your determination

 

[WeeklyBattles]

For now, how about we focus down what we wanna do, @WeeklyBattles if you dont find it a problem could you collect any uncalced feats, or calcs that you think can still be argued to be fit into this discussion?

While i can start working on the sandbox profiles for some of the sentinel/ruined champions that wouldn't be affected by further revisions anyways (Pantheon, Diana, Senna, Gwen, Vayne). Doesnt make sense to do others for now because their normal keys would still get changed in future based on this thread and whatnot, while these are independant and could be applied soon.

Itll take a wile but sure, i'd just appreciate it if we stopped downgrading charcters without a clear idea of how we're scaling the verse

 

[ShrekAlmighty]

I admire your determination

Thanks a lot, i do appreciate that, you do also agree with more or less the stuff above?

 

[Apollonir.Scale]

Thanks a lot, i do appreciate that, you do also agree with more or less the stuff above?

I couldn't read it all. I'll read it later.

 

[ShrekAlmighty]

Itll take a wile but sure, i'd just appreciate it if we stopped downgrading charcters without a clear idea of how we're scaling the verse

Well we havent downgraded anyone, the discussion was on pause until we figured the feats particularly the Illaoi one as most would scale to that tier 7 one.

Either way take your time, and thanks ofc, i will handle the sandbox sometime tommorow or day after so we can get that handled at least

 

[WeeklyBattles]

Well we havent downgraded anyone, the discussion was on pause until we figured the feats particularly the Illaoi one as most would scale to that tier 7 one.

Either way take your time, and thanks ofc, i will handle the sandbox sometime tommorow or day after so we can get that handled at least

From what im seeing on the profiles theres a LOT of champs that already got downgraded to tier 8 that shouldnt have

 

[ShrekAlmighty]

From what im seeing on the profiles theres a LOT of champs that already got downgraded to tier 8 that shouldnt have

A lot is a bit of an overstatement, and some champions will inevitably be dowgraded. Likewise i think its better to downgraded to a proper rating than stay on a clearly wrong one

 

[WeeklyBattles]

A lot is a bit of an overstatement, and some champions will inevitably be dowgraded. Likewise i think its better to downgraded to a proper rating than stay on a clearly wrong one

I can unironically justify nearly every champ that was downgraded to tier 8 being upgraded back to tier 7

 

[ShrekAlmighty]

I can unironically justify nearly every champ that was downgraded to tier 8 being upgraded back to tier 7

Cool then so will be done, but i still stand by rating them on the fautly low 7-c rating than just having to discuss something twice

 

[WeeklyBattles]

Cool then so will be done, but i still stand by rating them on the fautly low 7-c rating than just having to discuss something twice

I mean fair but it also kinda just unnecessarily doubles the workload. I agree with changing the stats and justifications but at the same time...

 

[ShrekAlmighty]

I mean fair but it also kinda just unnecessarily doubles the workload. I agree with changing the stats and justifications but at the same time...

Well its not really unneccessary, again all the ratings could change in a heartbeat anyways, and if something does change the profiles from a 2/10 to a 5/10, i prefer that over waiting a while for them to be perfect perfect.

Which again the old low 7-C is unarguably a bad rating so, i see this as an improvement, and well changing the rating is easy as long as the scaling is discussed which it was.

 

[WeeklyBattles]

Well its not really unneccessary, again all the ratings could change in a heartbeat anyways, and if something does change the profiles from a 2/10 to a 5/10, i prefer that over waiting a while for them to be perfect perfect.

Which again the old low 7-C is unarguably a bad rating so, i see this as an improvement, and well changing the rating is easy as long as the scaling is discussed which it was.

I guess

Like I said it's going to be slow work but I will post feats as I find them

 

[VoidGoji]

Creating a new discord group could be a good thing to coordinate and archive stuff