League of Legends Tier 8/7 Revision

[Mr. Bambu]

Imo rather than just scaling physicals due to UES, since its not really a thing in league, while yea magic does generally amp physicals, its the reason why Vastayans are all physically superior to any normal human, its rarely a 1 to 1 conversion, Ryze probably being best example of physicals and magic not matching up at all.

Regardless Illaoi would still scale ot it physically due to fighting people/entities who can match up to her powers.
And yea one of those is quite legit an avatar of the same god who should not be any weaker than her channeling itts power, forgot that for a bit myself, been a while since i played Ruined King.

I don't really think this is an argument in favor of scaling? It doesn't read like one, at least. It makes mention of physicals being incomparable to magical effects.

So it is around that tier 7 ranges but you are currently not sure if it is 7-A ? Regerdless i masseged the person who made the calc.

Probably, yeah. Whether it alone would provide consistent basis for an outright rating or not, remains to be seen, but the calc may well be 7-A anyways- the only issue is it doesn't show a lot of its work that is necessary to evaluate it.

I did found a couple tier 7 feats:
This and this for Malphite. Tho should be noted i think they both breake the large size calc rules you mentioned. (Also seems like the second calc values could be a lot higher if we use his height from the first calc)
This for giant serpents.
This and this for Galio.
This for Karma.
This for Rell, tho it appiers you rejected this.
This earthquake statement for Malzahar.

As you pointed out, the Malphite ones run into the issue of our Large Size standards having been refined since those calcs were made. KE isn't awarded on the same basis, it isn't automatically assumed they upscale speed like that, etc.

The giant serpent statement is iffy in that it doesn't actually say that the mouth of the creature is comparable to the size of the ship, it says it can crush them whole or swallow them, but the former has nothing to do with size and snakes routinely do just swallow shit way larger than their mouths by unhinging their jaws. Plus, if the frost serpents referenced are the same ones that appear first in Google results, you could just scale their body rather than using an eel that doesn't look much like them. It might still yield relevant results, acknowledging that the premise of the calc isn't great, but if they do ram as an attack then it's definitely a feat, even if the calc is imperfect (as old calcs often are).

If the first Galio one works as the calc suggests it does then it is a legit feat. Without evaluation though. I can look at the finer details later on but when I'm getting a bunch of calcs thrown around, which may or may not scale or be relevant here, I'd rather parse that than dissect an old calc. Second Galio calc assumes he came from the clouds in the timeframe of the feat when he just visibly didn't, looking at it frame-by-frame he is never above the clouds in the video linked, so that calc ain't right.

Karma calc I would disagree with a couple points- the ship is definitely more than 50% hollow, and vaporization isn't justified by "obliterated"- even taking the word generously that'd be pulv, not vape. Additionally, the vaporization value used is the "default" value, which is used for stone. Without some statement of it I would find it odd for the ship to be made of that. With adjustments I'd expect the calc to come out more to the tune of High 8-C or so.

Yeah I do think "heavier than a mountain" is meant for poetic effect, although if it was repeated frequently enough I'd sign off on it.

Earthquake one is legit, dunno how we'd approach it given that nothing is said of how severe the quakes themselves are.

So, in conclusion, a few calcs aren't as high as they are currently, a few of them just have very weird approaches that may skew their results one way or another, that Galio one looks solid but isn't accepted so I'll have to go over it if it's relevant to this CRT.

 

[ShrekAlmighty]

I don't really think this is an argument in favor of scaling? It doesn't read like one, at least. It makes mention of physicals being incomparable to magical effects.

In League its a very case by case Scenario, magic does always provide some boost, but it depends on how adept the person is at using it for that, reason why said same Vastayans are always extremely buffed as they are essentially a mix of humans and spirits so magic comes as second nature to them.

Aside from them there are also plenty examples of beings other than vastayans being comparable. Aspects of Targon, most Ionians engage in magic as much as physical combat with some specifically just buffing their physicals through it (Master Yi and any Wuju practicioner being best examples), more or less the same story for any kind of spirit really.

Illaoi is a mostly normal human however which is where those big differences only really show. So i dont think she should just blindly scale to it without extra reason. But she should overall due to physically contending with same people that fight her magic including the spiritual avatar of her own god who is quite literally made of the same magic.

 

[Ozcantabak]

As you pointed out, the Malphite ones run into the issue of our Large Size standards having been refined since those calcs were made. KE isn't awarded on the same basis, it isn't automatically assumed they upscale speed like that, etc.

How about the second part, of the second calc that being malpihte smashing a mountain. I can even recalc it with using 1219.8 meters. Also instead of using avrage human speed for him which breaks the rules because we dont have evidence, can we use this to calc his speed then apply it ?

The giant serpent statement is iffy in that it doesn't actually say that the mouth of the creature is comparable to the size of the ship, it says it can crush them whole or swallow them, but the former has nothing to do with size and snakes routinely do just swallow shit way larger than their mouths by unhinging their jaws. Plus, if the frost serpents referenced are the same ones that appear first in Google results, you could just scale their body rather than using an eel that doesn't look much like them. It might still yield relevant results, acknowledging that the premise of the calc isn't great, but if they do ram as an attack then it's definitely a feat, even if the calc is imperfect (as old calcs often are).

They are the same species, can i still use the mass and speed of an eel when calcing it or do you suggest another?

Yeah I do think "heavier than a mountain" is meant for poetic effect, although if it was repeated frequently enough I'd sign off on it.

Alright

If the first Galio one works as the calc suggests it does then it is a legit feat. Without evaluation though. I can look at the finer details later on but when I'm getting a bunch of calcs thrown around, which may or may not scale or be relevant here, I'd rather parse that than dissect an old calc. Second Galio calc assumes he came from the clouds in the timeframe of the feat when he just visibly didn't, looking at it frame-by-frame he is never above the clouds in the video linked, so that calc ain't right.

Alright.

Karma calc I would disagree with a couple points- the ship is definitely more than 50% hollow, and vaporization isn't justified by "obliterated"- even taking the word generously that'd be pulv, not vape. Additionally, the vaporization value used is the "default" value, which is used for stone. Without some statement of it I would find it odd for the ship to be made of that. With adjustments I'd expect the calc to come out more to the tune of High 8-C or so.

Alright.

Earthquake one is legit, dunno how we'd approach it given that nothing is said of how severe the quakes themselves are.

What would be the lowest possible energy ?

So, in conclusion, a few calcs aren't as high as they are currently, a few of them just have very weird approaches that may skew their results one way or another, that Galio one looks solid but isn't accepted so I'll have to go over it if it's relevant to this CRT.

I dont necessarily think you need to evavulate Galio's calc.

 

[Mr. Bambu]

What would be the lowest possible energy ?

At the very least we can be sure that this is an earthquake capable of causing significant damage even visible on the surface, given that notable new lengths of fault lines are being created because of them. I'd say Magnitude 7 is a pretty reasonable end to use for that, as that is where damage to the ground itself becomes obvious. Per our page on the subject, this would be High 7-C.

I dont necessarily think you need to evavulate Galio's calc.

Out of curiosity, why wouldn't I? Is it not relevant?

 

[Ozcantabak]

Out of curiosity, why wouldn't I? Is it not relevant?

I wouldn't say it's not relevant but i think it would be harder to scale other characters to galio compared to scaling them to illoi or the serpent.

 

[Mr. Bambu]

They are the same species, can i still use the mass and speed of an eel when calcing it or do you suggest another?

I think a different eel should be used, based on the images of the creature- I would use the Moray Eel, which is thicker compared to its length. As for speed, if they attack by ramming and don't have contradicted speeds (like being outpaced by a boat or something) then it's probably fine. I don't think the assumptions in the calc are strictly outlandish but I don't think they're modest, either, so I'd be neutral on using it even with this significant adjustment- calcing the size in the way the calc does isn't great but I don't have a good alternative given the two images of the creature seem to give wildly different scales of size.

 

[Mr. Bambu]

Keeping track

Legitimate feats:

• K'sante splits clouds (Calc'd, though it doesn't show its evidence for a few points, which renders it unaccepted currently, 200.21 Megatons of TNT) 7-A (pending the conjuring of evidence)
• Illaoi and/or the Kraken create a storm (Uncalc'd, standard calc puts it at 5.44 Megatons of TNT) Low 7-B (pending UES discussion)
• Malzahar creates earthquakes (Uncalc'd, standard calc puts it at 476.88 Kilotons of TNT) High 7-C
• Galio flies from one place to another extremely quickly (Calc'd but not approved, 1.11 Kilotons of TNT) Low 7-C (pending calc approval)

Feats that may be legitimate if recalc'd:

• Frost serpent size (Currently uses unrealistic parameters to determine size, can be adjusted but will always contain some level of guesswork failing the use of canon artwork)

Feats that are low enough to be obsolete in this discussion:

• Malphite's size (Size is calc'd, standard values would put this at High 8-C, or 8-A if further evidence supported KE scaling)
• Amumu's storm dispersal (Calc'd, done over unknown time period due to cinematic timing, likely splits the value too much to be relevant)
• Kenen creates lightning as an attack (Standard values places this at 8-C)
• Galio lands at a fast speed (Calc'd but uses incorrect parameters, with more realistic parameters is definitely not going to amount to Low 7-C or higher)
• Karma blows up a ship (Calc'd but uses incorrect parameters, probably has results lowered to 8-C to 8-B if done more accurately)

 

[Ozcantabak]

Made another calc for malph, will try the serpent one too.

 

[Mr. Bambu]

Made another calc for malph, will try the serpent one too.

listen man I'm not trying to be a hardass but the fundamental assumption of this one flies in the face of previous calcs

 

[Ozcantabak]

listen man I'm not trying to be a hardass but the fundamental assumption of this one flies in the face of previous calcs

Bro i tried to tell you the malphite's height was wrong The color stroy they got the height from predates the info i got, even in his level 1 splash arts blud is touching the clouds and in level 2 he is shown bigger than the mountain behind him.

 

[Mr. Bambu]

Bro i tried to tell you the malphite's height was wrong The color stroy they got the height from predates the info i got, even in his level 1 splash arts blud is touching the clouds and in level 2 he is shown bigger than the mountain behind him.

They're in the mountains there. Mountains are frequently already above the clouds. Art two, those mountains are well in the background and thus appear smaller. Sorry man.

 

[Ozcantabak]

They're in the mountains there. Mountains are frequently already above the clouds. Art two, those mountains are well in the background and thus appear smaller. Sorry man.

Alright then if the statements are not enough on their own, i'll recalc it using the 126.72 meters value.
Edit: Done

 

[ShrekAlmighty]

Alright then if the statements are not enough on their own, i'll recalc it using the 126.72 meters value.
Edit: Done

Perhaps you could calculate malphite's size using the second LoR art, there are some birds infront of him which yes will make him appear smaller due to being fairly closer to the POV, however that will only lowball the calc rather than inflate it.

Either way, even if we assume thats a common seagull or something you could probably calculate his height using the average wingspan andmeasuring his head rather than the entirety of his body (since its not entirely visible), then you can either use the other art to get the full height, or use the average head to height ratio which is... 1/8th of someones height iirc. Calcing prooobably better as although while Malphite is fairly humanoid in size he is not entirely, so best to ask a CGM about whether to use that or not

 

[Mr. Bambu]

Perhaps you could calculate malphite's size using the second panel, there are some birds infront of him which yes will make him appear smaller due to being fairly closer to the POV, however that will only lowball the calc rather than inflate it.

Either way, even if we assume thats a common seagull or something you could probably calculate his height using the average wingspan andmeasuring his head rather than the entirety of his body (since its not entirely visible), then you can either use the other art to get the full height, or use the average head to height ratio which is... 1/8th of someones height iirc

Actually, yeah. Birds under his left arm in the one where he's in the clouds. Dunno if we'd use seagulls but I don't really have a better idea for it, there isn't a definitive default assumption for "bird". Seagull might be on the higher end though.

 

[ShrekAlmighty]

Actually, yeah. Birds under his left arm in the one where he's in the clouds. Dunno if we'd use seagulls but I don't really have a better idea for it, there isn't a definitive default assumption for "bird". Seagull might be on the higher end though.

Probably better to just use the common gull, far from a big bird, and nothing small like a hummingbird which almost certainly wouldnt even be visible from that far away.

 

[Ozcantabak]

Can't we also use this ?

 

[ShrekAlmighty]

Can't we also use this ?

Eh i personally would be against it since the entire premise of the cinematic is Zilean looking through alternate timelines including technically an alternate malphite too, yes he could just be same size. But considering in the cinematic he quite legitimately appears in Ionia, during an invasion that has not even happened yet. I wouldnt quite say id be too happy to use him to scale main canon malphite

 

[Mr. Bambu]

Can't we also use this ?

I'm not sure how you would. He's in the background and looks smaller as a result- if you scaled off the guys there you'd probably cap out at the dozens of meters in height, when by presentation they definitely mean for him to be larger.

 

[Apollonir.Scale]

I think we should focus on Galio's calculation. According to the profiles, Sion is considered comparable to Galio. Considering Sion being below Swain, Kennen one-shotting him with lightning, etc., at least some characters can be scaled.

 

[Apollonir.Scale]

bump

 

[ShrekAlmighty]

I think we should focus on Galio's calculation. According to the profiles, Sion is considered comparable to Galio. Considering Sion being below Swain, Kennen one-shotting him with lightning, etc., at least some characters can be scaled.

Cant really say i agree, since i dont agree with using anything from that ionian part of cinematic, and i likewise dont agree with scaling a lot of characters to Galio considering he is quite literally the superweapon of Demacia.

Best course would be to handle the Malphite calc with new pixel scaling since its easy, then start the UES discussion to handle the Illaoi thing, imo at least.

 

[Apollonir.Scale]

Ok. Let's accept the following for now

Illaoi Low 7-B with Environmental Destruction

Malphite and Galio scale to a certain value with their new calculations.

Kennen 8-C

Karma destroys the ship (whichever tier it corresponds to with the calc)

 

[ShrekAlmighty]

Ok. Let's accept the following for now

Illaoi Low 7-B with Environmental Destruction

Malphite and Galio scale to a certain value with their new calculations.

Kennen 8-C

Karma destroys the ship (whichever tier it corresponds to with the calc)

Fine with everything other than Kennen as i dont agree with using that part of Awaken at all

 

[Mr. Bambu]

So, wait. I thought Malphite's calc would scale to more or less everyone one way or another, so Karma and Kennen (and whoever might scale to them) would scale to that, no?

 

[ShrekAlmighty]

So, wait. I thought Malphite's calc would scale to more or less everyone one way or another, so Karma and Kennen (and whoever might scale to them) would scale to that, no?

Not really, pretty unlikely almost anyone would scale to the Malphite calc really as he is basically entirely isolated from other champions throughout his lore

Edit: At least as far as i am aware.

 

[Apollonir.Scale]

So, wait. I thought Malphite's calc would scale to more or less everyone one way or another, so Karma and Kennen (and whoever might scale to them) would scale to that, no?

Malphite hasn't interacted with anyone.

Karma and Kennen are from the same region but I don't know if they will raise other characters from their own region.

Annie is considered one of the most powerful sorcerers so she might be scalable to Karma

 

[VoidGoji]

Annie will also get a "higher with Tibbers" due it being a high-level demon iirc

 

[Ozcantabak]

Bro, i swear i remember some sht about yasuo knocking down malphite, seems like i remember it wrong. But i'll still try the malphite calc basend on gull stuff.
Should i message other mods for Illoi's feat ?

 

[ShrekAlmighty]

Bro, i swear i remember some sht about yasuo knocking down malphite, seems like i remember it wrong. But i'll still try the malphite calc basend on gull stuff.
Should i message other mods for Illoi's feat ?

Probably try collecting evidence for UES if there is any first since it will be a fairly relevant topic for illaoi and future in general.

And uhh i dont remember any such feat tbf, he did once cause a landslide in his story with Taliyah due to cutting a part of a mountain or so however iirc.

 

[Apollonir.Scale]

So can we elevate the characters through Braum's splitting of the mountain? The only problem is that this information is called a fairy tale

 

[ShrekAlmighty]

So can we elevate the characters through Braum's splitting of the mountain? The only problem is that this information is called a fairy tale

Its a fairy tale but he quite legitimately gets the door from that one, and im talking about Yasuo rather than Braum punching his way into the mountain.

Only problem is that cutting some unknown part of a mountain isnt really scalable, good feat in text but ultimately not enough info

 

[Apollonir.Scale]

What I'm saying is that he split the mountain in two with his fall. But yes, there is also information that he broke a certain part of the mountain with his fist.

 

[ShrekAlmighty]

What I'm saying is that he split the mountain in two with his fall. But yes, there is also information that he broke a certain part of the mountain with his fist.

My memory might just be wrong about it then, i only remembered him punching through it

 

[Apollonir.Scale]

bump

Let's come to a conclusion

 

[ShrekAlmighty]

bump

Let's come to a conclusion

There isnt really a conclusion yet aside from... Non-Arcane profiles get nuked (and skinlines get added to arcane profiles), and Illaoi gets Low 7-B enviormental, everything else is pending as far as im aware

 

[Apollonir.Scale]

There isnt really a conclusion yet aside from... Non-Arcane profiles get nuked (and skinlines get added to arcane profiles), and Illaoi gets Low 7-B enviormental, everything else is pending as far as im aware

Are there any characters that are not from Piltover and Zaun but can scale to 8-C Arcane characters?

 

[ShrekAlmighty]

Are there any characters that are not from Piltover and Zaun but can scale to 8-C Arcane characters?

Ambessa, Mel and Leblanc through Mel, technically nobody not present in arcane since nobody also scales to them that directly yet at least

 

[hippoishungry]

From what i can tell from the thread the only accepted results so for are that:

Everyone who scales to kennen is 8-C

Galio is probably higher, but no-one scales to him

Malphite is High 8-C, but no-one scales to him

Malzahar definitely has a tier 7 feat, but idk who scales to him

 

[ShrekAlmighty]

From what i can tell from the thread the only accepted results so for are that:

Everyone who scales to kennen is 8-C

Galio is probably higher, but no-one scales to him

Malphite is High 8-C, but no-one scales to him

Malzahar definitely has a tier 7 feat, but idk who scales to him

Aside from Kennen part yes, both cause iirc lightning is high 8-C and cause i dont agree with using the feat considering that part of the cinematic is as far from possible in canon as it gets atm.

 

[hippoishungry]

Aside from Kennen part yes, both cause iirc lightning is high 8-C and cause i dont agree with using the feat considering that part of the cinematic is as far from possible in canon as it gets atm.

so what do the majority of characters scale to if we dont end up finding any new calcs? Is it just the 9-A Garen feat at the moment?