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attacks are affected by physical durability. The Soul Manipulation is just an extra slap on top of that.
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Flowey vs Mahito (UT vs. JJK) (GRACE)
- Thread starter Eden_Warlock99
- Start date
Catbowtie
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Mahito is not somehow outdoing all of Undertale in skill and creativity and if he was Flowey just adapts.
I don't see why this match is a thing. It's a Stomp in favor of Flowey.
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But Invulnerability is not Durability though. It's a hax.
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if Flowey thinks he has even a small chance to win he'll keep trying.
I'd say throw Mahito at Teclis' first key when he comes out, but that would be throwing Mahito at TECLIS.
I'd say throw Mahito at Teclis' first key when he comes out, but that would be throwing Mahito at TECLIS.
I'm not arguing for Mahito, I'm just saying, shit's not really non-physical energy anymore. Now sure, I don't agree with that take and think it's utter nonsense, but I tried my hand and failed to argue to keep it in place.
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What are you talking about? Monsters are verbatim stated to lack almost all physical matter because of most of their body being made of magic, unless you talk about Cursed Energy.
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no no it is, but you see because it makes physical things sometimes that must mean that all of it is physical!
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Flowey finds that interesting and keeps trying. The more you interest Flowey the more he just loads with the knowledge at play. You need to repeatedly shitstomp him a **** ton of times to where he thinks he has 0 chance or he's just going to load and try to avoid that next time.
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Genuinely who told that? Because Ghosts are literally incorporeal monsters.
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The thread that removed most dura neg for general magic.
Unless I'm misunderstanding things which can happen, that do be how it is.
Eden_Warlock99
She/Her- 13,587
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- Thread starter
- #52
Definitely underselling all the stuff Mahito can do. Like Mahito abuses his shapeshifting to a ludicrous degree; growing multiple arms, extending his limbs, becoming huge, growing wings, drills, making clones, whatever the hell this thing is, and so much, much more.
And to add on that, he has a stock transfigured humans, that he can do the same things to, but most notably; Soul Multiplicity and Body Repel (Basically two gigantic AoE attacks) and Polymorphic Soul Isomer (Literally just creates an ally about as strong as he is)
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And all of this would be interesting
Mahito's creativity is a weakness, not a boon here.
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The thread is mostly saying that physical objects that increase one's dura can reduce the SOUL damage, but does not mention anything about monsters' magic being strictly physical and able to affect just that.
Mahito's invulnerability is still hax, not a physical durability increase, heck in Undertale we literally have the INV state for the SOUL which is completely separated from the DEF in itself. If Undertale's SOUL hax is still accepted as being durability negation, mostly due to the SOULs having HP which would allow Undertale characters to beat opponents in far lesser hits than they normally should.
Mahito here would have 20 HPs given that he'd be LV 1 from verse equalization, thus given the gap, Flowey would need 20 hits to beat him. I do not think it's impossible to happen given his stubborness and adaptation.
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I fail to see how is this comparable to Sans.
(Not PF here but you get my point).
Eden_Warlock99
She/Her- 13,587
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- Thread starter
- #56
There's definitely a limit to that curiosity, especially since Mahito's bigger moves only need to hit Flowey once and he'd die, how he's inevitably just going to make duplicates or use his transfigured humans to just overwhelm Flowey, how Mahito is definitely going to be messing with Flowey the whole time (Not much differently to sans)
The speed advantage definitely helps Flowey, but Mahito is definitely going to adapt to it himself.
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Sans has a limited number of attacks, and Asgore canonically stomps Flowey.
Mahito has a borderline unlimited number of attacks, and can be felled by Flowey without being helped. So he's gonna do it lol
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The gap is x6.77, not x7.5. So Flowey is taking a hit at least.
Sans was faster, Mahito is x4 slower. A big difference.
Now ain't that NLF-ish against someone who has a far better adaptation himself.
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Where is that on his profile, Mahito has actual AD on his profile and actively grew stronger between Vs Mahito and Shibuya
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Also ngl these DT users match all suck because as long as the DT user can eventually overwhelm the opponent with the latter having no way to stop that, then they stomp right because of the fact that they have infinite tries and the possibility of killing the opponent.
If they don't have such possibility, then they just get stomped infinitely.
Then, the Adaptation from Flowey comes from him learning and getting used to the opponent's attacks at each attempt, not as how it's the ability here.
If they don't have such possibility, then they just get stomped infinitely.
Isn't JJK like stated to cap at Mach 3?
Then, the Adaptation from Flowey comes from him learning and getting used to the opponent's attacks at each attempt, not as how it's the ability here.
Catbowtie
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I'm not underselling, it's just that I could literally watch an Undertale playthrough and see all of the stuff Mahito does.
When you give someone effectively infinite retries of a fight, there's no way it CAN'T be a stomp. If Yuji and Todo can beat Mahito despite his abuse of shapeshifting, I can guarantee that Flowey will absolutely ****stomp Mahito.
This was literally what I was saying.
Eden_Warlock99
She/Her- 13,587
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- Thread starter
- #62
Words definitely fail to do it justice. Give me a minute.
Eden_Warlock99
She/Her- 13,587
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- Thread starter
- #63
Actually, does this circumvent the infinite tries problem? Flowey's mind isn't affected by the LOADs.
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stated, not really shown in series but VSBW is dumb and doesn't have the rela-FTL stuff accepted yet; its like how dragon ball characters find light speed impressive despite them having feats that are at quadrillion C
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What does it do, exactly? Plus how much time it's needed?Actually, does this circumvent the infinite tries problem? Flowey's mind isn't affected by the LOADs.
This still means that here Mahito won't be able to increase his speed.
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I don't think mahito can survive Flowey's pellets spam longer than he eroding Flowey's mind
Eden_Warlock99
She/Her- 13,587
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- Thread starter
- #67
Can't find an explanation anywhere, but from what I can gather getting just getting injured by Cursed Energy a.k.a being "cursed" also inflicts mental damage.
Mahito could perception blitz Nanami from across a room by shapeshifting deer legs and Mahito can perform Binding Vows and has done it before to amp his stats (His 8-A form is due to a self-imposed Binding Vow that made him 200% stronger as an exchange for his shapeshifting)
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Yeah, that's indeed very vague and I don't think it's gonna be as fast as Flowey depleting Mahito's HP then.
Apparently it's not enough to overcome a x4 speed advantage as the verse is still below Mach 3 here.
Eden_Warlock99
She/Her- 13,587
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- Thread starter
- #69
Granted the Binding Vow amp in this case is hypothetical, but yeah.
Think at least the mental damage stuff makes it not a stomp, so I'll count the votes.
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Anyway uhhhhh it took other people with no resistance to cursed energy barely any time to get mentally ****** by it from a stupidly low level curse, I don’t see Flowey finding a way to hit the combat genius, special grade spirit Mahito 20 times before he gets hit by like, 4 basic ass attacks across saves.
Voting Mahito.
Eden_Warlock99
She/Her- 13,587
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- Thread starter
- #73
bump
Eden_Warlock99
She/Her- 13,587
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- Thread starter
- #75
Mahito when he's up against someone he can't Soul hax:
Mahito is kinda forced to fight people who resist his Soul hax since he sorta just one-shots them otherwise.
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Mahito FRA
Eden_Warlock99
She/Her- 13,587
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- Thread starter
- #77
EnderLord8
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I read both profiles and it seems that the speed advantage leans more towards 5~6x (Mach 4.86 vs Mach 0.82/0.984), this is Blitz material, considering the rest of the arguments it seems that Flowey wins, I'm going with the flower
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Looking back at this, Mahito seems have abstract existent type 2 due to being a curse. Would it do effect here?
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