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I and other high-ranking staff members support this decision.
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Rule Violation Reports (New forum)
- Thread starter Antvasima
- Start date
Astral_Trinity439
He/Him- 4,377
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Umm, can you please link the specific text in a normal page form? I don't quite understand the revision difference view much nor can I find the part which you're referring to as my translation (as in, I can't understand which specific line you're trying to link).
This I admit. I can't really differentiate between simplified Chinese and Japanese.
Although I did call it MTL, most of it was human edited (By me, and a kanji explanation was also provided: but yes, I do get the point, unreliability), and in the thread where all those changes (of the first thread you linked) were being implemented, @CodeCCLL asked me here the scans I had translated, and had checked all the ones I translated (with the tl group, I suppose)
Additionally, it's worth noting that in most if not all the cases where I use them, I link the original otl or fan tl (if available) along side both the raws and my translation.
This I admit too, tho I mostly only do this for either things that other ask me to do, or when a kanji can mean many things in grammar (such as of, in, on, etc)
Although I wanted to answer everything, not quite sure what you meant by this.
I'm fine with that, sure, if the staff judges mine aren't reliable. (Though it's a hassle to confirm every single tl from the tl group due to the amount of them.)
Also, I'd like to ask if this is an official warning or just a heads up of sort (for future translations)
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The addition of this scan.
It's kinda fundamentally impossible to translate a sentence just searching up the characters in the dictionary, since there's uses of grammar you'd need to be able to understand and distinguish. What the different particles mean in context, what the suffixes mean, etc.
So when you say "I translated this using a dictionary, although I don't really know Japanese", that makes me wonder what sort of "baseline" you used, which you plugged your dictionary definitions into.
Yeah, just don't want other stuff to slip under the radar.
I think I'd put it as more of an official warning.
Astral_Trinity439
He/Him- 4,377
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If I recall correctly, this was double-checked by CodeCCLL (with wiki tls) before, in the thread I linked above.
And in those cases, I usually confirm it with someone online whose japanese (though, not on the wiki) if it's something I can't translate myself
It was mostly using various translators (mostly DeepL, but sometimes many more if DeepL gives any error or if that scans are of something really important), grammar check its English (myself), use a dictionary or two if it contains some possibly metaphorical terms, then (if it's of something really important) confirm it with any of my jp friends online, tho this is not a 100% case as sometimes they were unavailable.
With that said, am I inclined to check every single tl with the tl group? (Cuz there are often too many of them, and some for, well, quite small stuff that aren't even combat applicable sometimes, which might give too much burden on the tl group)
Aight, I have no say in this so I'm fine with whatever y'all decide.
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Tayman and I checked it, and found that it simply mentioned a space-time gap, not a space-time void, a particular word choice which seems to have had quite an impact on its interpretation.
Yeah.
But hopefully that could be minimised to some degree. We only really need translations being provided if someone knows that the main translation is wrong, or if there's good reason to suspect that it could be wrong. And in those cases, we can cut it down to relatively small segments (really, it'd often only depend on a few words); even if you want more raw text for context, the only important parts to verify are often quite narrow.
From what I've seen with the screenshots you've provided in threads, I think you've provided more translations and raw text than you really need to.
Astral_Trinity439
He/Him- 4,377
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True enough
Well, there is always the thing with context, thus why I tend to link the entire scan mostly, rather then a single line.
Aight
Hmm, there was this (kanji notes), which lead me to use the term space time void, and since at that time, Code said he had checked the scans, I went along with it, but sure, won't use it in the future without confirming with him (or the tl group in general)
CodeCCLL
He/Him- 3,338
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To clarify.
I just, wanted certain things to be checked to clearly establish the difference between other timelines/parallel universes and other worlds lines/other dimensional worlds
and @Apotheosis69 did it.
I don't have much to do with this issue.
Meanwhile, although I'm not sure, Astral seems to have only now had the opportunity to defend himself. So I'm wondering why you and other high level staff didn't invite Astral into your private discussion on this issue. If you have a suspicion, shouldn't you first let the person to whom your suspicion is directed defend himself, and then other staff will listen to both sides and decide? Whatever the reason, this doesn't feel right.
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If we think it's reasonably likely to change the substance of it, we do include the person being reported in discussions, or at least ask them questions. But other times, when it doesn't (i.e. when the information is publicly available on our forum, and we don't really have open questions for them) we won't contact them.
Maybe this should be changed, but it's generally worked out fine so far. And a proper discussion of that would more belong in a separate staff-only thread.
(And to be clear, that applies both to staff and non-staff; certain staff have been warned/demoted without the topic being discussed with them first)
CodeCCLL
He/Him- 3,338
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So what will happen to the some tensura's official wiki pages that already use just Astral translations? Do we need to replace all the scans/phrase with the fan translation/official translation/translation of translation helpers and revise some things again based on differences in the translations? So, although I am always cautious about Astral's translations, there are some translation differences that I do not care about because I thing they do not affect anything.
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I think that's something which users should look to clean up over time, and should feel empowered by this declaration to do.
But I don't think we should do something extreme like delete the verse entirely if the scans aren't removed in a few days.
CodeCCLL
He/Him- 3,338
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I think Astral needs to make some effort, especially when it comes to changing scans and wording. But yes in general it is something that can be resolved with time.
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I’m sorry, I couldn’t help but comment after reading this.
There are many differences between the languages. If you can’t even figure that out, you have no business translating anything, nor should your translations be considered reliable.
Mahek_The_Assassin_Silent_Killer
Any/All- 2,028
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If I may comment (though a bit late), ironically Japanese is more similar to traditional Chinese than simplified Chinese, also cause there is admittedly quite a large influence from Chinese hanzi in Japanese kanji and Korean chosongul/hangul (and then there's Korean hanja which is basically Chinese characters used to write equivalent Korean words), though there are still various differences in the scripts both in appearance and in reading (that being said, notably there's times where Google Translate's detection confuses Traditional Chinese hanzi and Japanese kanji, and there's times where the only difference is reading cause the letters are the same, so there IS a possibility for confusion, just that it depends on the text being translated and the experience of the translator).
For example, the hanzi for Zhèngyì zhíxíng (正義執行) and kanji for Seigi shikkō (正義執行) are the same, the only difference is in reading and direct translation (Zhèngyì zhíxíng is Justice EXECUTION, whereas Seigi shikkō is Justice ENFORCEMENT).
(Again, Google Translate, and this is only one example, so this could be probably be taken with salt.)
Also, Wankbreaker, while I understand the cause for concern given that Trinity's difficulty would compromise/jeopardise translation efforts, I feel like that is a bit of a harsh way to put it (at the least he should be allowed to have help from another more experienced translator rather than practically being castigated/lambasted/(insert synonym for being sharply/harshly scolded) in public/in front of everyone, welp).
Sorry again if I commented out of turn, I just felt that this could have been better handled/phrased.
Yeah, either Astral definitely needs help from more experienced translators or he may need to leave translation to said more experienced translators, and the latter sounds like what the consensus is leaning to.
Chinese characters - Wikipedia
Kanji - Wikipedia
Hangul - Wikipedia
Hopefully these help.
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Mahek_The_Assassin_Silent_Killer
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Sorry, edited the first message to add in the contents of the two messages following it and deleted accordingly.
I recognise that this is a matter for staff to handle, I just felt that while the concern is understandably high we shouldn't let it be justification for harshly reprimanding instead of firmly but calmly advising on what went wrong and how it could be done better/correctly (though this would depend on how severe/frequent the breach is and how much frustration or anger is caused by said breach).
That's all I have to say, I understand if these messages are deleted.
I recognise that this is a matter for staff to handle, I just felt that while the concern is understandably high we shouldn't let it be justification for harshly reprimanding instead of firmly but calmly advising on what went wrong and how it could be done better/correctly (though this would depend on how severe/frequent the breach is and how much frustration or anger is caused by said breach).
That's all I have to say, I understand if these messages are deleted.
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Japanese uses more than Kanji for its writing script, so it'd be kinda hard to confuse the two.
Unless you guys meant the character variants they use, then that's another thing entirely. For example, I have a tool that can convert Chinese Simplified to Traditional, Traditional to Shinjitai and viceversa, and etc.
Since I'm studying both languages, There's the Pleco dictionary for Chinese (sometimes it also lists Japanese variants aside from Simplified and Traditional. It has lots of addons and plugins for other Asian languages as well) and Takoboto for Japanese.
For rarer variants, you can use Zi.tools or the Taiwanese MoEdict. I doubt that'll be the case with anime or modern content in general, but I felt like saying it.
Unless you guys meant the character variants they use, then that's another thing entirely. For example, I have a tool that can convert Chinese Simplified to Traditional, Traditional to Shinjitai and viceversa, and etc.
Since I'm studying both languages, There's the Pleco dictionary for Chinese (sometimes it also lists Japanese variants aside from Simplified and Traditional. It has lots of addons and plugins for other Asian languages as well) and Takoboto for Japanese.
For rarer variants, you can use Zi.tools or the Taiwanese MoEdict. I doubt that'll be the case with anime or modern content in general, but I felt like saying it.
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Considering they are responding to a frankly unnecessary comment in the first place with a perspective that serves to give clarification to why the original issue could've happened at all, I don't see it as that great of a derailment. (To the point that they specifically needed to be called out; if anything, Wankbreaker should've been)Mahek, please stop posting mostly derailing walls of text.
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Mr. Bambu
Suffer-Not-Injustice Bambu
VS Battles
Joke Battles
Bureaucrat
Administrator
Calculation Group
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No warnings on the tracker, although something makes me feel as though we had some incident or another with this user. Am I misremembering? There's a good chance I may be, there's quite a lot of names to keep track of.
Regardless. This is obviously needlessly combative/condescending. Looking through the thread, nothing Clover says strikes me as particularly aggressive on his behalf, so this becomes an instance of one person needlessly exploding (albeit not to any severe extent). The mood of the thread is a bit volatile, people appear frustrated, but this is the worst behavior by a good margin, in that it extends well beyond just criticism of the actual arguments.
Without prior warning(s), I'd be in favor of just a warning to stop that. If it continues, then a thread ban should be issued. If there are prior warnings that just weren't added to the tracker, then I would have to re-evaluate based on those warnings, how long ago they were doled out, etc- my opinion may change or stay the same.
Regardless. This is obviously needlessly combative/condescending. Looking through the thread, nothing Clover says strikes me as particularly aggressive on his behalf, so this becomes an instance of one person needlessly exploding (albeit not to any severe extent). The mood of the thread is a bit volatile, people appear frustrated, but this is the worst behavior by a good margin, in that it extends well beyond just criticism of the actual arguments.
Without prior warning(s), I'd be in favor of just a warning to stop that. If it continues, then a thread ban should be issued. If there are prior warnings that just weren't added to the tracker, then I would have to re-evaluate based on those warnings, how long ago they were doled out, etc- my opinion may change or stay the same.
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Wanna re-read this (Your own comment)? He was supposed to be banned for 2 weeks or so? Though it seemed like it was forgoten about and never was implimented.
Mr. Bambu
Suffer-Not-Injustice Bambu
VS Battles
Joke Battles
Bureaucrat
Administrator
Calculation Group
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Yeah, that's probably what I'm (vaguely) remembering. Given that the ban was agreed upon but not implemented, I'll actually put that through now, and add the new issue as a warning additionally on the tracker. Thank you, Dark.
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That and applying a CRT without permission.
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I agree, a ban seems warranted at this point. If it was already agreed via vote manipulation or adding things without permission, then later doubles down with a hostile post like that. That just adds to the list of reasons to justify the ban.
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As I said, I wouldn't frame it that way. That CRT had most votes landing for 2-A, and the staff who voted for that seemingly didn't care that another thread was going on about the issue. They were repeatedly told that and never rescinded or put their vote on hold.
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Not that there should be a punishment, but a brief reminder that @Rosa and @Hellformer should calm down on the nasty retorts against me for disagreeing with their thread. Clearly, they're frustrated that their thread isn't getting the most positive limelight but no need to start getting hostile. I'm not going to reply any further in that tread(since I already made my point) to avoid hostility.
Post in thread 'LOW 1-A/ 1-A BEN 10'
https://vsbattles.com/threads/low-1-a-1-a-ben-10.177408/post-6996778
Post in thread 'LOW 1-A/ 1-A BEN 10'
https://vsbattles.com/threads/low-1-a-1-a-ben-10.177408/post-6996796
Post in thread 'LOW 1-A/ 1-A BEN 10'
https://vsbattles.com/threads/low-1-a-1-a-ben-10.177408/post-6996778
Post in thread 'LOW 1-A/ 1-A BEN 10'
https://vsbattles.com/threads/low-1-a-1-a-ben-10.177408/post-6996796
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notice how no where did I insult you in this message, I'm pointing out how you're refusing to engage and instead clogging up a thread with non-substantive comments which border on ragebait. Stop trying to blow this out of proportion, this is embarrassing behaviour.
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What you replied with may not be an insult necessarily but it was still kind of rude
Don't think there's anything actually punishment or really noteworthy like you said, just remain civil and try not to insult or be unnecessarily rude to one other. Going to reiterate this in the thread as well
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I don't appreciate the “stalking versus threads” nor the fact you omit to the point I take effort into dismantling your thread when I never did. False accusations and an unwillingness to just listen. On top of that, a retort doesn't have to be overly aggressive, just that it's unwarranted, prude, and adds nothing to the conversation that's stalled about non-existent baiting with some random snarky comment as seen here:
Post in thread 'LOW 1-A/ 1-A BEN 10'
https://vsbattles.com/threads/low-1-a-1-a-ben-10.177408/post-6996782
And all I did was explain what I wasn't planning to respond.
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No punishment is needed, but they need to remain civil and stop with the snarky comments. This report is very tame but that's because I didn't let it contuine.
Ebihara
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Alex the lion
Hi, this is just to add Alex's feats. In Madagascar 3 he was able to withstand Dubois' strength with just one arm. With that same arm he held her and Melman for a while and then he was able to lift them easily. In the final fight he was clearly able to surpass Dubois in strength since he took...
Bonnie the Bunny (movie)
El actor confirmó que Bonnie lo sacudió por el armario de suministros rompiéndole los huesos e incluso le rompió el brazo. Esto se puede verificar al ver los subtítulos que dicen huesos crujiendo y también cuando vemos su cadáver queda dentro del traje de Sparky mientras su brazo roto expuesto...
Bonnie the Bunny (movie)
El actor confirmó que Bonnie lo sacudió por el armario de suministros rompiéndole los huesos e incluso le rompió el brazo. Esto se puede verificar al ver los subtítulos que dicen huesos crujiendo y también cuando vemos su cadáver queda dentro del traje de Sparky mientras su brazo roto expuesto...
3 threads not in English, user is new though.
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I left him a message on his wall. Seems more new than harmful.Alex the lion
Hi, this is just to add Alex's feats. In Madagascar 3 he was able to withstand Dubois' strength with just one arm. With that same arm he held her and Melman for a while and then he was able to lift them easily. In the final fight he was clearly able to surpass Dubois in strength since he took...vsbattles.com
Bonnie the Bunny (movie)
El actor confirmó que Bonnie lo sacudió por el armario de suministros rompiéndole los huesos e incluso le rompió el brazo. Esto se puede verificar al ver los subtítulos que dicen huesos crujiendo y también cuando vemos su cadáver queda dentro del traje de Sparky mientras su brazo roto expuesto...Bonnie the Bunny (movie)
El actor confirmó que Bonnie lo sacudió por el armario de suministros rompiéndole los huesos e incluso le rompió el brazo. Esto se puede verificar al ver los subtítulos que dicen huesos crujiendo y también cuando vemos su cadáver queda dentro del traje de Sparky mientras su brazo roto expuesto...
3 threads not in English, user is new though.
Ebihara
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agreed, wasn't sure if this fit more or all purpose thread though. in the future what is more appropriate?
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all purpose probably.
Astral_Trinity439
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Yeah, but the point wasn't about Ultima specifically. By the time you made that post, I'd already pointed the OP towards our rule which explicitly say that those sorts of threads need evaluations from staff members who possess "a reasonable level of genuine understanding and expertise" in those areas. And even ignoring that aspect, it only just barely scraped by the bare minimum requirement; and even then, only if we still maintain the acceptance of a staff member who has since been demoted.
Why try so hard to push things through when a bureaucrat is simply asking for another knowledgeable member to take a look at it?
Why try so hard to push things through when a bureaucrat is simply asking for another knowledgeable member to take a look at it?
Astral_Trinity439
He/Him- 4,377
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Alright, thank you both for answering
And I thought the same thing as what Agnna said later.
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This CRT is not in English
vsbattles.com
sea of thieves cosmology and some character additions
Before I start I would like to mention that in Sea of Thieves we are presented with quite a few cosmological factors and information about the universe in a vague way and the amount of this information is quite small, so it might be a short start and this is my first cosmology CRT, so I am very...
