Super_Ascended_Sean_Pazdera
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Will the Zenith also be Universe level+? It should be stronger than the Dryad army that disemboweled Cthulhu.
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Massive Terraria CRT
- Thread starter MaybeWantsToEdit
- Start date
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What makes you say that? Nothing about the zenith tells you that
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man I genuinely do not get your fascination with the Zentith specifically being universe+ when the terrarian will just be Uni+ generally at the end anyways
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- Thread starter
- #124
Zenith should just be Uni+ because it scales to Moon Lord (shreds him). Anyway yeah Large Planet rating kinda useless for scaling besides possible Mechdusa profile and maybe Lunatic Cultist
Super_Ascended_Sean_Pazdera
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I... was not aware that that was gonna happen. I wouldn't have kept recommending it if I did. Huh.
I guess we could still use a 'far higher via the Zenith' on the page.
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- #126
Why would Zenith scale far higher. It's just powerful enough to deal considerable damage to ML relatively quickly compared to other things.
Super_Ascended_Sean_Pazdera
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I'm gonna make it real simple for you.
The Meowmere, a sword that literally drops from the Moon Lord himself, can kill the Moon Lord in minutes.
The Zenith, the sword made of the Meowmere, and a sword that equals it being but 2 of the 9 components, the sword literally described as "Infinity +1" compared to everything else, can kill the Moon Lord in seconds.
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Shredding the Moon Lord in a minute still doesn't constitute for far higher because its still withstanding hundreds of strikes from it even if it is "infinity +1"
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- Thread starter
- #129
The wiki's Trivia section: "The term 'Infinity +1 Sword' is a term that is used in games for a weapon that is the strongest in the game. It usually is not obtained by playing through the game, and requires time and patience and can defeat anything with ease."
I think a "Higher (Far stronger than before)"-type thing can be used for the Zenith but I'm pretty sure "Far higher" is for stuff that is like a higher tier or two
Super_Ascended_Sean_Pazdera
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You have yet to agree with me on a point I ever make. Pretty sure all bosses in the game withstand hundreds of strikes from the prominent weapons of the time- hell, look at the Summoner class. We still have the Terrarian scale to the bosses.
That reminds me, we should scale the Holy Hand Grenade.
Super_Ascended_Sean_Pazdera
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Yeah, but in this scenario it's not a fan term for the Zenith.
We use far higher for a lot of things that represent significant jumps in my experience, like Super Saiyan forms on our Dragon Ball pages.
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Not sure why that first part is relevant at all to the point being made? You can scale to someone even if you beat them over hundreds of hits, thats just their endurance at that point which is just how much punishment its going to take to put them down even with you doing consistent damage.
also missing the point, them surviving hundreds of blows means far higher wouldn't work in any capacity thats it, they're just relative. Idk why you're talking about anything else or bringing up the summoner?
Super_Ascended_Sean_Pazdera
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Damn I can't believe the Zenith is Building level since the Eye of Cthulhu can tank like 10 hits from the Zenith smh
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why do you have such a hyperfixation on the Zenith. It just scales, thats it.
Super_Ascended_Sean_Pazdera
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It might be hard to imagine, but a LOT of debaters downplay not only Terraria but the Zenith specifically. I get kind of angry about that.
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Dawg no one has downplayed a thing, literally nothing about fits anything for far higher description on wiki, what are you even on about
Super_Ascended_Sean_Pazdera
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You know I mean in general.
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i'll be real
who gaf
someone else downplaying the zenith in particular is not a reason to list it as any different from terrarian's normal statistics
Super_Ascended_Sean_Pazdera
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Yeah, I figured people just wouldn't listen.
Lou_change
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To be fair Zenith represents the single strongest weapon in the terrarian's arsenal and given the name represents the pinnacle of their power. It basically asking if peak terrarian scales.
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It would have scaled regardless as endgame terrarian woukd be low 2-C anyways I'm genuinely not getting the need to seperate it especially when its not enough to denote a "far higher" rating by wiki standards, it simply just scales.
At the very most if ya want it bad enough you could say maybe "likely higher" or At least low 2-C but still like not THAT big a gap
Lou_change
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A higher with post moon lord stuff rating seems reasonable given it is stronger than what was used to kill the moon lord.
Lou_change
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I would like to suggest the following for scaling.
Definitively scale: Moon Lord/Cthulhu/Your World*/The Terrarian/Celestial Pillars*
*Your World: Given that it is implied that the reason the dryad race was able to fight cthulu was their connection to the planet. They are also likely either the physical embodiment of the universe's or your world's will assuming they share an origin with the current dryad.
*Celestial Pillars: The Terrarian can only really upgrade from post golem gear by killing one and the monsters they summon and that is only offensively until after moon lord.
Should probably scale: The Torch god and Empress of Light*
*The Torch god and Empress of light: the terms deity, god, goddess, gods and others are used rather sparingly in terraria. Uses include the godly modifier and the golfer referring to your skill if you get 2000 or more points. In the lore however it shows up when mentioning that gods created the worlds, thd torch god and empress of light are a god and goddess respectively and in the Moon Lord's bestiary "Practically a god, his power knows no limits." This suggests his power is either equal to the gods or nearly equal and that gods are of a similar degree of power. The Torch God was willing to give their blessing to the terrarian for surviving the onslaught so they could be holding back. Empress of Light is absurdly power in daylight and honestly despite being post plantra is usually fought with post golem gear.
Likely scale: Terra blade*, Duke Fishron*, Martians*, Betsy*, Lunatic Cultist*, Frost and Pumpkin Moon bosses*
Terra Blade: The primary reason everyone else in this category is here and yes we have a profile for it. The weapon is post plantra, one of the best weapons in the game, and likely to help all the way past moon lord.
Duke Fishron: The only boss not directly referred to as a god or god like to have a five star rating in the bestiary. There is also the fact he is generally considered a post golem boss despite technically being available at the beginning of hardmode.
Lunatic cultist: I think he scales to a near pillar level terrarian, but you don't get to argue he scales to the weapons made from pillars.
Martians and Betsy: Post golem and terra blade.
Frost and pumpkin moon bosses: generally it seems these events are considered a post golem level challenge despite being possible pre-golem and the only attack any of the bosses have that does less than then golem's strongest attack is the contact damage of pumpking's main body.
Possibly scale: Golem* and Plantra*
Golem: You can get the terra blade pre golem however it creates the problem of melee armor being the same as plantra. Also it is the boss inside the area you get the item to summon the event that lets you get the last ingredient for the terra blade (Solar tablets for solar eclipses to get the broken hero's sword), and is in the same underground biome were you fight plantra. Lastly the lore of the martians invading from the Martian Probe, "Sensing growing power on the planet, otherworldly beings send space-age technology to scan for advanced lifeforms." The probes only show up after beating golem and only react to the Terrarian so it probably isn't the ritual the cult is doing but a power jump after beating golem.
Plantra: If golem gets to scale then we must acknowledge the fact between fighting plantra and golem there is no way to get better armor if terrarian is using a melee class and has the same defensive capabilities for both fights.
Technically scale: The weird category of enemies were they can under certain circumstances one shot a peak terrarian. This consists of an enraged skeletron, enraged skeletron prime, dungeon guardian, and wall of flesh
Skulls: All three one shot a peak terrarian outside unless they use a niche setup and only take chip damage from their attacks.
Wall of Flesh: this one is technically not an attack that does damage but if it reaches the end of hell the players will be licked and die which I don't think suggests death manipulation. I guess it scales by eating the players or maybe the tounge ignores durability since it acts as a damaging status effect.
Should probably not scale even with potential arguments: Any Hallow (Except EoL), Crimson, or Corruption stuff*, Eye of Cthulhu*, Skeletron (not enraged), The mechanical bosses (except enraged skeletron prime), Wall of Flesh (Outside of eating you)*
Hallow, Crimson, and corruption: Yes Corruption, Crimson, and hallow are meant to serve as the world's means of enforcing the balance they are implied to be similar across worlds, use methods besides physical force, and your world has unprecedented potential and none of these were of any help dealing with Cthulhu.
Eye of Cthulhu and Skeletron: Why would cthulhu's eye or skull have become infinitely weaker than when still part of him, they were presumably not supposed to have been separated for starts, much less how long it been.
Mechanical bosses: yes they we meant to replace body parts of moon lord, but they are not proven to be up for such a task.
Wall of Flesh: The World's core and master as it's guardian, it however doesn't have proof of scaling to your world.
Definitively scale: Moon Lord/Cthulhu/Your World*/The Terrarian/Celestial Pillars*
*Your World: Given that it is implied that the reason the dryad race was able to fight cthulu was their connection to the planet. They are also likely either the physical embodiment of the universe's or your world's will assuming they share an origin with the current dryad.
*Celestial Pillars: The Terrarian can only really upgrade from post golem gear by killing one and the monsters they summon and that is only offensively until after moon lord.
Should probably scale: The Torch god and Empress of Light*
*The Torch god and Empress of light: the terms deity, god, goddess, gods and others are used rather sparingly in terraria. Uses include the godly modifier and the golfer referring to your skill if you get 2000 or more points. In the lore however it shows up when mentioning that gods created the worlds, thd torch god and empress of light are a god and goddess respectively and in the Moon Lord's bestiary "Practically a god, his power knows no limits." This suggests his power is either equal to the gods or nearly equal and that gods are of a similar degree of power. The Torch God was willing to give their blessing to the terrarian for surviving the onslaught so they could be holding back. Empress of Light is absurdly power in daylight and honestly despite being post plantra is usually fought with post golem gear.
Likely scale: Terra blade*, Duke Fishron*, Martians*, Betsy*, Lunatic Cultist*, Frost and Pumpkin Moon bosses*
Terra Blade: The primary reason everyone else in this category is here and yes we have a profile for it. The weapon is post plantra, one of the best weapons in the game, and likely to help all the way past moon lord.
Duke Fishron: The only boss not directly referred to as a god or god like to have a five star rating in the bestiary. There is also the fact he is generally considered a post golem boss despite technically being available at the beginning of hardmode.
Lunatic cultist: I think he scales to a near pillar level terrarian, but you don't get to argue he scales to the weapons made from pillars.
Martians and Betsy: Post golem and terra blade.
Frost and pumpkin moon bosses: generally it seems these events are considered a post golem level challenge despite being possible pre-golem and the only attack any of the bosses have that does less than then golem's strongest attack is the contact damage of pumpking's main body.
Possibly scale: Golem* and Plantra*
Golem: You can get the terra blade pre golem however it creates the problem of melee armor being the same as plantra. Also it is the boss inside the area you get the item to summon the event that lets you get the last ingredient for the terra blade (Solar tablets for solar eclipses to get the broken hero's sword), and is in the same underground biome were you fight plantra. Lastly the lore of the martians invading from the Martian Probe, "Sensing growing power on the planet, otherworldly beings send space-age technology to scan for advanced lifeforms." The probes only show up after beating golem and only react to the Terrarian so it probably isn't the ritual the cult is doing but a power jump after beating golem.
Plantra: If golem gets to scale then we must acknowledge the fact between fighting plantra and golem there is no way to get better armor if terrarian is using a melee class and has the same defensive capabilities for both fights.
Technically scale: The weird category of enemies were they can under certain circumstances one shot a peak terrarian. This consists of an enraged skeletron, enraged skeletron prime, dungeon guardian, and wall of flesh
Skulls: All three one shot a peak terrarian outside unless they use a niche setup and only take chip damage from their attacks.
Wall of Flesh: this one is technically not an attack that does damage but if it reaches the end of hell the players will be licked and die which I don't think suggests death manipulation. I guess it scales by eating the players or maybe the tounge ignores durability since it acts as a damaging status effect.
Should probably not scale even with potential arguments: Any Hallow (Except EoL), Crimson, or Corruption stuff*, Eye of Cthulhu*, Skeletron (not enraged), The mechanical bosses (except enraged skeletron prime), Wall of Flesh (Outside of eating you)*
Hallow, Crimson, and corruption: Yes Corruption, Crimson, and hallow are meant to serve as the world's means of enforcing the balance they are implied to be similar across worlds, use methods besides physical force, and your world has unprecedented potential and none of these were of any help dealing with Cthulhu.
Eye of Cthulhu and Skeletron: Why would cthulhu's eye or skull have become infinitely weaker than when still part of him, they were presumably not supposed to have been separated for starts, much less how long it been.
Mechanical bosses: yes they we meant to replace body parts of moon lord, but they are not proven to be up for such a task.
Wall of Flesh: The World's core and master as it's guardian, it however doesn't have proof of scaling to your world.
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Wait is this trying to saying everyone scale to low 2-C? Its covering so many guys
Lou_change
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Okay I have bolded the categories pretty much only the following is important the Definitely scales, Probably scales, technically scales, and Golem in possibly scales. Everything else is who shouldn't scale despite the fact you could try making an argument.
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I don't see at all how half of these scale to the moon lord now when we didn't have them scaling before
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don't use game progression levels like that
don't go "ok this is like post plantera but it's still really strong against ML so it scales to him"
don't go "ok this is like post plantera but it's still really strong against ML so it scales to him"
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I think that would be Curse Manipulation. He should also probably have Low-Mid Regeneration, since he got back all the organs and body parts that Dryads destroyed.
Lou_change
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We literally have a terra blade profile that scales to lunatic cultist. It also has barely any competition besides post golem weapons that aren't even considered outright better. Also armor progression sort of just stops between post moon lord and beating golem (for melee) or plantra (for anyone else) besides the Eternia stuff. (The Eternia stuff is not even considered the best general armor for any class outside of mixing with other armor and I doubt the stuff from the crossover is meant to be a vital step towards beating the moon lord in the story especially as the moon lord was added to the game before the crossover.) Almost everyone considered post golem would be fighting a terrarian with the same durability as when they fight and take hits from the pillars and moon lord. Please also read the golem section
Super_Ascended_Sean_Pazdera
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To be fair, Post-Golem literally just means Lunatic Cultist. Besides, we don't scale basic armor sets to bosses, because chances are the player will have more defensive equipment than just the 3 armor pieces.
If you REALLY want to scale weapons and armor to each other, just have one player with ONLY the weapon hit the other with ONLY the armor and compare it to the closest Boss.
Lou_change
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I think we actually do currently scale armor and stuff or at least we use to here
Super_Ascended_Sean_Pazdera
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That page is kinda outdated. Even Life Crystals and Life Fruits count as items that help even a naked Player. Even without Life Fruits, even just the enemies that protect the Celestial Pillars could rip endgame armor apart.
Lou_change
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Also this is straight up wrong martians, and the third tier of the old ones army happens between those two as well.
You think those accessories combined with the Terrarian's health increased and buffs are so much greater than the sum of the parts that the parts don't get to scale independently? There is an infinite difference between low 2-C and every tier below it.
Stardust armor has the same defense as Chlorophyte armor for a mage that doesn't make sense for our current scaling or future scaling. That also creates problems with optional bosses like duke fishron who is available the entirety of hardmode.
You mean the only offense of two pillars (Nebula has no special tricks and stardust's special trick is more summoning) and the primary offense of the other two.
Super_Ascended_Sean_Pazdera
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Martian Madness is Post-Plantera, hence the sword that's better in most ways than the Terra Blade. I didn't know that's when the third tier happened, but its armor isn't particularly defensive at all; instead focused on getting the most Sentries out.
Yes. Unironically yes. Life Crystals, Life Fruits, Bast Statue, Aegis Fruit, any Accessory with a defensive suffix, even Set Bonuses technically count for this. If fighting the Moon Lord without any of these sounds scary to you, that's because it is.
Honestly, that feels like a gap in our indexing, tbh. Duke Fishron is a bit more obvious since it'll still tear you apart like a receipt if you have the equipment progression of early Hard Mode.
...No, I mean the enemies you fight.
Lou_change
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First martian madness is post golem, second is also only considered better if you have only a single target, the third tier generally is only Valhalla Knight armor with the third highest defense besides the defensive version of beetle armor and solar armor, Shinobi Infiltrator armor is a good bit worse, red riding hood armor is only 3 points worse than shroomite, and dark mage either ties or gets 12 points ahead of spectre armor depending on the helmet.
I mean yeah but don't people usually use damage and mobility accessories to end fights quicker and dodge attacks. I also think besides accessories none of that is even locked behind plantra.
My understanding is that we need to usually use progression to determine where things scale and if something isn't locked behind a certain point and we should use the stats to find the ball park it belongs into. Golem is statistically weaker from duke fishron who drops better gear, my problem determining what happens between plantra and golem is golem is really weak compared to every else happening post plantra the moon events have bosses that do a lot more damage but have less health on account of being a part of an event were multiple bosses can spawn.
...
Why would they not scale that is the main challenge of the lunar events and several of them even have entries in the bestiary talking celestial power presumably referring to the power of the celestial pillars.
Could you at least clarify who or what you oppose scaling. The Torch God, and Empress of Light have entirely different reasons than everyone else and no one even acknowledged my golem point.
Lou_change
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Its from 2018 so like nearly 10 years ago, we don't need to ping for it lol
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