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Thats not how that works you don't use game health bars for scaling so if thats the only reason it doesn't work
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Massive Terraria CRT
- Thread starter MaybeWantsToEdit
- Start date
Super_Ascended_Sean_Pazdera
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I don't remember using health bars. I remember her taking hits without being killed.
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- #83
She's taking hits from a weakened Cthulhu (Moon Lord). Nothing suggests she would be able to survive Cthulhu's original power, and nothing in the lore says anything does besides Cthulhu himself, and the power of all the Dyrads together. Moon Lord would only have been Universe level+ if he had fused his body with all the mechanical bosses, which never ended up happening.
Super_Ascended_Sean_Pazdera
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Yeah, that's why the army was much stronger than the endgame Dryad. Zenith should upscale from them.
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Shouldn't we scale to 60x whatever value the galaxy stuff is since the respective pillar can drop up to 60 fragments which presumably make up the pillar we fight in some way.
I kinda got ignored when I first brought that up
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- #86
?? what's "why" the army was stronger. You haven't really explained why Zenith would upscale Dryad civilization's AP.
And endgame Dryad doesn't exist, her durability stays stagnant the whole game. Actually that would mean her surviving a hit would just be game mechanics since early game is blatantly nowhere near on the same power as Moon Lord they're using wooden swords and yo-yos. Akin to how we have Cirno at City Block despite in-game surviving Reimu's attacks, or how a naked Link in BotW can theoretically take on Ganon. Dryad on her own shouldn't be able to canonically survive that.
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- #87
Probably? I don't actually think the tier would change though given the difference between tiers gets so high, but I'm fine with that.
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it's in the same way that "power of a star" [with no further context] would only get you High 6-A because that's the energy put out by the Sun earch second (literally, its power)
Lou_change
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technically NPCs get more armor as you beat bosses, enter hard mode, and read the two books that exist just to buff NPCs
Super_Ascended_Sean_Pazdera
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Are you doing this on purpose? Why the **** would the Zenith upscale the Dryads? Obviously the Dryads would upscale the Zenith.
"early game is blatantly nowhere near on the same power as Moon Lord" uuhhhhhh yeah. It is. Good thing the Dryad doesn't stay at early game the whole game, huh?
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I don't think we should assume that Moon Lord is vastly below the level has was at as Cthulhu
Moon Lord was weakened after losing to the Dryads, as the Lunatic Cult was making the Mechanical Bosses to restore it to full strength, but Moon Lord is still described as a god with limitless power. Both "his power knows no limits" and the whole "fury of a universe" thing seem to support that the Moon Lord is still at universal levels of power.
In addition, the Moon Lord seems to have regained power himself, without the Lunatic Cult's help. The lore says that he was hiding on the dark side of the moon, regaining his strength. The Lunatic Cultists were making the Mechanical Bosses to replace his organs: the Twins as his eyes, the Destroyer as his spine, and Skeleton Prime as his skull, with a mechanical brain being a work in progress that the player interrupts by rescuing the Mechanic. When we see Moon Lord, he has eyes, a spine, a skull, and brain. So, the damage the Dryads did to him seems to be mostly healed.
Like this is not true at all. Moon Lord's bestiary entry says "The mastermind behind all terrors which befall the world, freed from his lunar prison. Practically a god, his power knows no limits."
Moon Lord was weakened after losing to the Dryads, as the Lunatic Cult was making the Mechanical Bosses to restore it to full strength, but Moon Lord is still described as a god with limitless power. Both "his power knows no limits" and the whole "fury of a universe" thing seem to support that the Moon Lord is still at universal levels of power.
In addition, the Moon Lord seems to have regained power himself, without the Lunatic Cult's help. The lore says that he was hiding on the dark side of the moon, regaining his strength. The Lunatic Cultists were making the Mechanical Bosses to replace his organs: the Twins as his eyes, the Destroyer as his spine, and Skeleton Prime as his skull, with a mechanical brain being a work in progress that the player interrupts by rescuing the Mechanic. When we see Moon Lord, he has eyes, a spine, a skull, and brain. So, the damage the Dryads did to him seems to be mostly healed.
Lou_change
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An entire race who couldn't even kill Cthulhu while tapping into the power of the planet vs a blade made several of the strongest weapons in the Terrarian's arsenal including weapons that could be among the weapons used against the pillars and can compete with solar melee weapons and the moon lord, as well as two weapons stronger than the ones used to kill the moon lord. The moon lord isn't stated to still be weaker than Cthulhu we have evidence pretty much every body part he lost came back (I don't think anything in the lore explains the missing legs).
Super_Ascended_Sean_Pazdera
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So is this agreeing with me...?
Skarfz
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I agree with this, though i dont think the nebula stuff will be relevant here since everybody on endgame would scale, considering moon lord doesnt seem to be missing any of his limbs like the lore implies, he probably just healed it all.
Also, Should start calling some mods here
Also, Should start calling some mods here
Lou_change
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They drop up to hundred in expert and master mode. The most blatantly impressive feat they have of moving planets is possibly with 15. Plus for the pillars it is hard to say how much of that power is being directed towards summoning creatures, the forcefield, or sealing moon lord. Hell Nebula is the only pillar without a direct attack.
Honestly at this point I am not sure which side you want higher, but I am pretty sure it should be the zenith.
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Pillars changing the background aren't being used in any of the arguments tho but they'd just be support if anything if they were
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Disagree with Galaxy.
"Power of the Galaxy" does not mean 3-C, because the tier is gotten through an omni-directional explosion that obliterates everything within the galaxy, and not the power of said galaxy itself.
Just like the "power of the Earth" is not 5-B, but just around High 6-A, same with the Sun.
Lou_change
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I think that's already the consensus.
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I think only 1 person thinks that mean 3-C, we've for the majority already established that that'd be 5-A and dis the math here already
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- #101
I'm not saying they upscaled. That's sort of what I'm arguing against.
It sounded like you were saying the Zenith would upscale Dryad civilization (when it existed, even though Zenith and Dryad civilization have never met or interacted). What's your argument again? Is it that Zenith upscales the Dryad civilization or that it downscales.
Oh then nvm on the game mechanics arg I made. But still why would endgame gear scale to the Dryad civilization if they never got to interact at any point
He was weakened down to the point that life on the planet was a threat to him and he couldnt rule over it, even with all of Dryad life was removed besides 1 lone Dryad. The highest non-Hard Mode thing on the planet is Moon level Wall of Flesh.
Keyword: practically. To those on Terraria thats basically what Moon Lord is. Because there is practically no difference between something like a City level and a Planet level explosion to a regular human at the epicenter.
"His power knows no limits". Alright. So this just suggests nobody knows what his absolute peak power is. And again this honestly feels more like just hyperbole given it's a Bestiary that's written down.
I feel like we're looking at wordplay that's meant to not be taken absolutely literally, literally. People use "limitless" and "without limits" to refer to things that are just insanely powerful. "The limitless power of the Sun".
We have zero clue what "fury" in the context means, especially since the tooltips for the fragments use "power" for the galaxy instead in another item (which is of the same power level). Is it the power of the universe? Simply just the linked emotional anger of every world in the universe? (Planets are sentient in Terraria) it's too ambiguous to really say.
...HOLY SHIT I DIDNT EVEN KNOW THAT THE ****. Yeah his ass straight up healed every single body part the mechanical bosses were designed to repair back in the meantime. Also found out that this secret boss exists. Yeah I'm fine with Uni+ Terrarian because of this.
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So you are on-board with Moon Lord scaling to Cthulhu based on this? Also, do you think that this lore is enough to warrant Mechdusa scaling to Moon Lord, since it was an attempt to rebuild Cthulhu, or no?
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Yeah I think Moon Lord by you fight him = Cthulhu. Mechdusa, isn't Moon Lord though who he himself was Uni+, so it's a little questionable cuz the Moon Lord part I think was needed to be Uni+ total. But Mechdusa should just downscale. I'd say "At least Large Planet, likely Universe level+" but im down with just putting them at Uni+
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I think possibly works best in this case not outright
Lou_change
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It shouldn't, but they would in theory both scale to the squid guy Moon/Cthulu which is effectively the same I was just saying that because the we have a guide profile.
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If they can survive hits from Moon Lord with upgraded buffs then they should scale in dura in the endgame. I dont remember if their attacks also get buffed in the game though
Lou_change
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I think most get buffed I think the Dryad works differently compared to other NPCs in regards to attack.
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- #109
We currently have NPCs scale to Wall of Flesh, so I assume they wouldn't scale to Moon Lord's level of power. And NPCs don't really hurt each other in the game.
Lou_change
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Alright so I recently read something, Dryad mentions Terraria. "Be safe; Terraria needs you!" She uses the world name for most purposes so I think it does threaten to put the nail in the coffin for my Terraria referring to the planet argument besides maybe something involving it just being a second name just to be safe though I am going to check the crossover with dungeon defenders
Here
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Terraria is the name of the universe not the singular planet, a threat to terraria is a threat to everything not just your world
I do not want to rehash that yet again
Lou_change
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I was conceding my argument? That said on a personal level the dungeon defenders 2 information annoys me, "The Dryad is a physical manifestation of the will of Terraria itself. With the wisdom of untold ages, she's taken up arms to protect and defend her home against evil and corruption. Her World Tree is an anchor for all of her ferocious defenses." The universe isn't said to have a will and she is connected to the planet in other lore. I'll blame it on the fact it was early in comparison to the later lore.
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Ah okay I somehow misread that
Lou_change
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A small part of me wants to argue for an at least 5-A, likely Low 2-C rating, but my argument is bade on the fact the statement is a little vague, Terraria seemingly used a few times for both the planet and the universe, and fabric of the universe is a more common term than fabric of the planet, so why should I not accept that it is probably the simpler interpretation. Worse case someone finds the graphic novel and discovers we're wrong.
OrangeFR
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I think the 5A calc didn’t take the supermassive black hole in the center of the galaxy into account, someone asked a calc group person and they said that it should be included. It should probably be recalced.
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Yeah that's true its only every star
Lou_change
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Super_Ascended_Sean_Pazdera
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Please do not stop with these upgrades until Terraria is the most OP indie game verse
(just kidding they’ll never beat Asriel Dreemurr)
(just kidding they’ll never beat Asriel Dreemurr)
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Its important at least for the Pillar tiers and for some other ratings but the Cthulhu will be Universe+ the power of the galaxy thing is really just support
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