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BAN-KAI! Bleach General Discussion

From what I heard before they were talking about horrible CGI, I thought it was Berserk 2016, but the CGI is normal, just a little strange when the 3 arms appeared together
 
Yeah calling the episode a Mayuri yap bore fest is just hater behavior like it was not that much of a yap fest. The Zaraki Mayuri dialogue wasn’t yap, the flashback to Mayuri as a young man wasn’t yap, maybe some of the ability explanations were a bit on the yap side, but it wasn’t that bad 🗿
 
Arc7Kuroi said:
Yeah calling the episode a Mayuri yap bore fest is just hater behavior like it was not that much of a yap fest. The Zaraki Mayuri dialogue wasn’t yap, the flashback to Mayuri as a young man wasn’t yap, maybe some of the ability explanations were a bit on the yap side, but it wasn’t that bad 🗿
Click to expand...
Yap yap yap, all I hear.

On a serious note, episode was fine, not great but enjoyable enough. I honestly was expecting more from the Soul Kings left hand but meh, was surprised the episode wasn't showing other people but I didn't have an issue with them being the center focus. Overall, I was still interested in what was happening so that's still a win in my book especially when it's focused on a character I'm not much a fan of.

R.I.P to Kenpachi.
 
AppleLord said:
Kenpachi fan bore here. If you can't tell, look at this profile pig.
Click to expand...
Idk, I like it when characters stfu and beat the shit outta each other. Scratches a part of my glue eating brain.

It wasn't that bad tho, but the first half of Mayuri vs Pernida isn't the strongest link in the chain, even in the actual fight itself. Next week will be when things get interesting.
 
GinDan said:
I’m not trolling, but Zaraki Bankai TYBW cannot defeat base Yhwach. Ichigo managed to injure base Yhwach in his Fullbring Bankai form, whereas Zaraki lost to Fake Yhwach. After that, he had his training with Unohana and then fought Gremmy. If you closely watch the fight, Zaraki is afraid of machine guns in the anime; he even uses a slab of rock to protect himself, while Fake Yhwach withstands the temperature of the sun.

Even Gremmy isn’t that strong—he doesn’t even use Blut. He hardens his body like steel, while Fake Yhwach uses Blut to protect himself from Yamaji’s flames. Anyway, you’ll see it clearly today: Mayuri defeated Kenpachi, just like he defeated Pernida and its abilities. So why doesn’t Zaraki’s reiatsu protect him?

Zaraki’s Bankai has no real feats. He tears off Valkyrie’s arm but then knocks himself out on his own. On the other hand, Adult Toshiro has better feats than Bankai Zaraki. Even as a child, Toshiro managed to block Nozarashi twice in the manga.
Click to expand...
IDK why this didn't go through, but this is wrong.

He lost pre-training against fake Yhwach, which is irrelevant. Despite this, Unohana states he would've been capable of beating fake Yhwach if he had his powers from when he was a kid. At the same time, he's implied to be capable of fighting Fullbring Bankai Ichigo.

All of this is consistent, so you get:
SAFWY Zaraki < Start of TYBW Zaraki < (big gap) < Fake Yhwach = 70-80% of base Yhwach < Zaraki ~ 100% Base Yhwach ~ Fullbring Bankai Ichigo

Also, there is a significant lore basis for Gremmy being strong. Many sternritters fear him, and he has the reputation of being the strongest sternritter. Given his feats, this isn't far off.
 
Guacamolefletcher said:
IDK why this didn't go through, but this is wrong.

He lost pre-training against fake Yhwach, which is irrelevant. Despite this, Unohana states he would've been capable of beating fake Yhwach if he had his powers from when he was a kid. At the same time, he's implied to be capable of fighting Fullbring Bankai Ichigo.

All of this is consistent, so you get:
SAFWY Zaraki < Start of TYBW Zaraki < (big gap) < Fake Yhwach = 70-80% of base Yhwach < Zaraki ~ 100% Base Yhwach ~ Fullbring Bankai Ichigo

Also, there is a significant lore basis for Gremmy being strong. Many sternritters fear him, and he has the reputation of being the strongest sternritter. Given his feats, this isn't far off.
Click to expand...
How is zaraki > fake yhwach.
There's literally no basis of it.

Even if gremmy is strongest sternritter, he should still be weaker than yhwach and may be weaker than fake yhwach as well who should be one of the strongest sternritter anyway.
 
Adam1396 said:
How is zaraki > fake yhwach.
There's literally no basis of it.

Even if gremmy is strongest sternritter, he should still be weaker than yhwach and may be weaker than fake yhwach as well who should be one of the strongest sternritter anyway.
Click to expand...
Did you read anything Eva said? The basis is that Unohana believes that Zaraki’s full power would be able to have defeated fake Yhwach, rival FB Bankai Ichigo, and even fight invasion one Yhwach. Also, Gremmy being weaker than Yhwach (which he is) doesn’t refute this at all, given Zaraki beat Gremmy with his eyepatch on.
 
Arc7Kuroi said:
Did you read anything Eva said? The basis is that Unohana believes that Zaraki’s full power would be able to have defeated fake Yhwach, rival FB Bankai Ichigo, and even fight invasion one Yhwach. Also, Gremmy being weaker than Yhwach (which he is) doesn’t refute this at all, given Zaraki beat Gremmy with his eyepatch on.
Click to expand...
Zaraki still has no substantial proof of scaling to base yhwach other than unohana's vague statement. This was an assumption on unohana's part. And how would she even have idea about fake yhwach's strength?
Technically zaraki didn’t beat gremmy at all, though his scaling to gremmy is quite clear.
Toshiro still has better feats than zaraki.
 
Adam1396 said:
Zaraki still has no substantial proof of scaling to base yhwach other than unohana's vague statement. This was an assumption on unohana's part. And how would she even have idea about fake yhwach's strength?
Click to expand...
Idk, because SHE WAS THERE 1000 YEARS AGO AND 1000 YEARS LATER. Like seriously, there is no way she wouldn't know Yhwach's strength. She wasn't there directly per say since she didn't fight in the current conflict, but to say she doesn't know the real Yhwach's strength ignores the fact that she was in the original Gotei 13 even before the war and also fought in the original conflict. She definitely knew the current Yhwach's power because she literally sensed the battle happening.
Adam1396 said:
Technically zaraki didn’t beat gremmy at all, though his scaling to gremmy is quite clear.
Click to expand...
Technically? Gremmy literally couldn't contain his power, he was clearly superior strength-wise and also had the better mentality and skills. Gremmy's loss was his mistake, his mistake = Kenpachi's win. Saying he didn't win because Gremmy made a mistake and screwed himself over makes no sense, it was his mistake, therefore his loss.
Adam1396 said:
Toshiro still has better feats than zaraki.
Click to expand...
In terms of raw strength no, AP and hax yes.
 
ReaperAndBlues said:
Idk, because SHE WAS THERE 1000 YEARS AGO AND 1000 YEARS LATER. Like seriously, there is no way she wouldn't know Yhwach's strength. She wasn't there directly per say since she didn't fight in the current conflict, but to say she doesn't know the real Yhwach's strength ignores the fact that she was in the original Gotei 13 even before the war and also fought in the original conflict. She definitely knew the current Yhwach's power because she literally sensed the battle happening.

Technically? Gremmy literally couldn't contain his power, he was clearly superior strength-wise and also had the better mentality and skills. Gremmy's loss was his mistake, his mistake = Kenpachi's win. Saying he didn't win because Gremmy made a mistake and screwed himself over makes no sense, it was his mistake, therefore his loss.

In terms of raw strength no, AP and hax yes.
Click to expand...
Even yamamoto the one who fought failed to guess yhwach's strength.

Yeah she literally sensed, assumed yamamoto would win which oroved to be wrong.

That's why I said technically and I have no objection to his scaling to gremmy.

But his scaling to fake yhwach is assumption and the evidence you are trying to use is far too weak

Didn’t evwn kid toshiro deflect nozarashi's slash?
 
Adam1396 said:
Even yamamoto the one who fought failed to guess yhwach's strength.
Click to expand...
He failed to recognize how they stole Bankai. He didn't recognize Royd because he was blindsided by revenge, otherwise he would've noticed the differences in their mannerisms.
Adam1396 said:
Yeah she literally sensed, assumed yamamoto would win which oroved to be wrong.
Click to expand...
She didn't assume Yama would win, she was hoping he would, not even close to "expecting." She hoped Yamamoto would win before he burned the Soul Society to cinders.
Adam1396 said:
But his scaling to fake yhwach is assumption and the evidence you are trying to use is far too weak
Click to expand...
Testimony from one of the smartest Gotei members who fought in the original conflict with Yhwach isn't really weak evidence. It's some of the best evidence actually, because she was there in the original time, and sensed the fight in the present.
Adam1396 said:
Didn’t evwn kid toshiro deflect nozarashi's slash?
Click to expand...
He got slammed into a crater trying to block Kenpachi in his adolecent Bankai and still took damage. Bankai Kenpachi ripped Gerard's arm off with his teeth and split him down the middle like butter, even Base Kenny stopped his stomp and had him fall flat on his ass. Toshiro was only able to freeze Gerard (albeit a stronger one) and even so he broke out and needed a weakened Kenny to bail him out.
 
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ReaperAndBlues said:
He failed to recognize how they stole Bankai. He didn't recognize Royd because he was blindsided by revenge, otherwise he would've noticed the differences in their mannerisms.
Click to expand...
Again it's your assumption.
You are ignoring the flawlessness of royd's power, appearance mimicry.
ReaperAndBlues said:
She didn't assume Yama would win, she was hoping he would, not even close to "expecting." She hoped Yamamoto would win before he burned the Soul Society to cinders.
Click to expand...
It's same. Ultimately she was not expecting yama's lose.
Both clearly failed to gauge Yhwach's power.
ReaperAndBlues said:
Testimony from one of the smartest Gotei members who fought in the original conflict with Yhwach isn't really weak evidence. It's some of the best evidence actually, because she was there in the original time, and sensed the fight in the present.
Click to expand...
It's weak. She has no real idea about current Yhwach's power and this was shown.
Her being present thousand years ago doesn’t mean s*** when her idea was explicitly proven wrong along with yamamoto.
ReaperAndBlues said:
He got slammed into a crater trying to block Kenpachi in his adolecent Bankai and still took damage. Bankai Kenpachi ripped Gerard's arm off with his teeth and split him down the middle like butter, even Base Kenny stopped his stomp and had him fall flat on his ass. Toshiro was only able to freeze Gerard (albeit a stronger one) and even so he broke out and needed a weakened Kenny to bail him out.
Click to expand...
None of these feats are superior to what adult toshiro did.
He broke out with hax not with power and it's noted by the end of chapter miracle didn’t cease.
 
I have some doubts about Hisagi’s Bankai.
Who among those affected by Hisagi’s ability could possibly overcome his Bankai?
 
Shouldn't Hitsugaya's Limited Durability Negation rating be nuked on his Base Abilities?
• Limited Durability Negation (Toshiro can freeze someone to the bone with his maximum output[11], contextually this was against someone who was massively stronger then Toshiro[12] so this shouldn't necessarily be assumed he'd need his maximum output against weaker opponents then himself[11])
Click to expand...
It's a byproduct of Absolute Zero and it was accepted as likely on his adult form anyways, I don't get why we should keep this when maximum output is already accepted as "likely Absolute Zero".
 
The character I’ve been talking about to make a match with Ichigo has been upgraded. Here’s the matchup with Ichigo for those that are interested.
vsbattles.com

The Substitute Shinigami vs The Warrior of Kindness (Bleach vs Ultra Series) (Concluded)

Upgrades are finally complete so I can actually make this match now. The kind substitute shinigami that would not kill unless you push him to his mental limit vs The ultra who is among the kindest person ever but will not hesitate to choose violence and kill if you try to pull some evil stuff...
vsbattles.com vsbattles.com
Accidentally placed the thread in the JokeBattles vs thread but I already contacted a staff to move it.
 
Adam1396 said:
How is zaraki > fake yhwach.
There's literally no basis of it.
Click to expand...
Adam, before you make a response like this, I advise you read up a little


Here is a very very clear statement. She's bringing up examples where he narrowly lost to people because he was suppressed, and they show Fake Yhwach.. You can't get more blatant than this besides having her say it explicitly.

Adam1396 said:
Even if gremmy is strongest sternritter, he should still be weaker than yhwach and may be weaker than fake yhwach as well who should be one of the strongest sternritter anyway.
Click to expand...
Besides the language barrier, this is still kind of incoherent.

You said "may be weaker than fake Yhwach who should be one of the strongest sternritter anyway," but you're making a fallacious type of argument known as "begging the question." He "may" be stronger? Why?

Adam1396 said:
Zaraki still has no substantial proof of scaling to base yhwach other than unohana's vague statement. This was an assumption on unohana's part. And how would she even have idea about fake yhwach's strength?
Click to expand...
Unohana fought Zaraki as a kid and can sense power. She knows all she's going to do is give him the power he had before, and she's still like "ok, you should've been able to win all of these fights."

Adam1396 said:
Technically zaraki didn’t beat gremmy at all, though his scaling to gremmy is quite clear.
Click to expand...
He pretty consistently overpowered anything Gremmy could make? He took damage from Gremmy's hax of being thrown to outer space, and then the suicide explosions which damaged him even more than they would've given the space damage.
Adam1396 said:
Toshiro still has better feats than zaraki.
Click to expand...
Show me a Toshiro AP feat, where he does something without hax, and he deals significant damage to someone, when there isn't any proof Toshiro froze it before.
 
Adam1396 said:
It's same. Ultimately she was not expecting yama's lose.
Both clearly failed to gauge Yhwach's power.
Click to expand...
Yama beat Royd though? What are you on? We never see Unohana talking about the situation once the real Yhwach shows up.

Also, no? They didn't fail to gauge the real Yhwach's power. Yamamoto was tired after the fight, and hence had no chance vs the real Yhwach once he had his bankai stolen

Adam1396 said:
It's weak. She has no real idea about current Yhwach's power and this was shown.
Her being present thousand years ago doesn’t mean s*** when her idea was explicitly proven wrong along with yamamoto.
Click to expand...
No again? Show me an explicit statemenet of "her idea" being "explicitly proven wrong along with Yamamoto."

Adam1396 said:
None of these feats are superior to what adult toshiro did.
He broke out with hax not with power and it's noted by the end of chapter miracle didn’t cease.
Click to expand...
He didn't freeze the core, which is what was used to revive Gerard, and its stated by him that Gerard's matter ceased its function.
 
Guacamolefletcher said:
Yama beat Royd though? What are you on? We never see Unohana talking about the situation once the real Yhwach shows up.
Click to expand...
Guacamolefletcher said:
Also, no? They didn't fail to gauge the real Yhwach's power. Yamamoto was tired after the fight, and hence had no chance vs the real Yhwach once he had his bankai stolen
Click to expand...
Yamamoto being at full power totally fresh wouldn’t still change the outcome and the fact that yhwach is stronger. They can't gauge someone they failed to even identify. And here they literally failed to identify both.
Guacamolefletcher said:
No again? Show me an explicit statemenet of "her idea" being "explicitly proven wrong along with Yamamoto."
Click to expand...
They failed to recognize him.
Yama was proven wrong more times who was supposed to be smarter and more experienced lol. Baldy thought Yhwach can't steal his bankai and yhwach responded generously
Guacamolefletcher said:
He didn't freeze the core, which is what was used to revive Gerard, and its stated by him that Gerard's matter ceased its function.
Click to expand...
What are you on!! He froze gerard's entire body apart from foot. We see where his cross was supposed to be also crumbled.
Gerard didn’t really regenerate. He formed a new body which is different from regeneration.

Yes, and later gerard came back with a denotation " miracle never cease"
 
There is also so much problem with the particular statements and justification.

Zaraki being able to clash to heart's content doesn’t mean he would be equal. It means these opponents won't get one shotted not that he is even to them. The interpretation of these statements itself is wrong.

Funnier thing is both renji and byakuya were included here but for some reason they don’t have the same ap scaling.
 
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AnAverageUsername said:
As much as it would go against the agenda, I do admit it would be cool to see Shukei Hakuteiken clash with giant Gerard evenly.
Click to expand...
An even better scenario would be if it’s shown in the anime that Bankai Kenpachi did in fact hit Gerard’s medallion core but couldn’t destroy it. And Byakuya’s new Shukei Hakuteiken destroys the medallion core after True Bankai Toshiro and Bankai Kenpachi creates an opening for Byakuya to use it against Gerard.
 
Pernida gets resistance to Mayuri's sound paralysis as it was on the area at the same distance as Ikkaku and the others on the opposite side of Mayuri.
 
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