Versus Thread Removal Requests (New forum)

[Fallen_Angelicx]

Nah, Sans wins, the match can stay

How? He gets one shotted the moment the fight begins. This is just not attacking anything I said. Literally the embodiment of "Nuh uh, anyways". What about San's getting one shotted after Ryuunosuke forsees himself hitting San's from the future?

He also does NOT have "future ranged attack ability" I literally reported you for arguing he does.

Turns out nothing changed from your report and I didn't get warned with anything. The mods agreed with me regardless of what you think so Whatever I or the profile says still stands. Ryuunosuke infacts attacks his opponents from the future and reenacts it in the present after it resonates. You're in denial and lying for no valid reason.

 

[Eden_Warlock99]

How? He gets one shotted the moment the fight begins.

sans dodges with his superior reaction speed, you see.

 

[Fallen_Angelicx]

sans dodges with his superior reaction speed, you see.

Sans wouldn't be able to dodge it as Ryuunosuke already forsees him hitting San's. It's based on his desire.

 

[DaReaperMan]

How? He gets one shotted the moment the fight begins. This is just not attacking anything I said. Literally the embodiment of "Nuh uh, anyways". What about San's getting one shotted after Ryuunosuke forsees himself hitting San's from the future?

"Huh??? What do you MEAN that you can disagree with me?!?!"

 

[DaReaperMan]

Sans wouldn't be able to dodge it as Ryuunosuke already forsees him hitting San's. It's based on his desire.

He's also dead within like 2 seconds of the match starting with nothing he can do about it lol

 

[Fallen_Angelicx]

"Huh??? What do you MEAN that you can disagree with me?!?!"

Your disagreement doesn't make sense nor debunks what I'm saying which is why. His wincon doesn't stop him from getting one shotted by Ryuunosuke. He has the AP advantage and the hax to accomplish this.

 

[Fallen_Angelicx]

He's also dead within like 2 seconds of the match starting with nothing he can do about it lol

What are you talking about? Nothing like that as argued in the debate lol. You're adding stuff just now

 

[Fallen_Angelicx]

Sans wincon is validated by his Standard Tactics/Weakness, even the opposition used this as an argument. He's a pacifist who'll try to persuade his opponent to become his friend. As such anything you're suggesting rn wouldn't even be a starting move nor valid against a Precognition user. All Ryuunosuke has to do his hit Sans once to win, which he can already see San every movement 2 seconds ahead. Easy to catch off guard that way

 

[DaReaperMan]

What are you talking about? Nothing like that as argued in the debate lol. You're adding stuff just now

I mean if Ryuunosuke don't got very good dodging skill Sans' literal first attack is indeed lethal in less than a second, don't know how that was never mentioned lol

Your disagreement doesn't make sense nor debunks what I'm saying which is why. His wincon doesn't stop him from getting one shotted by Ryuunosuke. He has the AP advantage and the hax to accomplish this.

I know you're desperate for my engagement with you, but I think I'll cut you off here, ya addict!

 

[Eden_Warlock99]

Sans wouldn't be able to dodge it as Ryuunosuke already forsees him hitting San's. It's based on his desire.

It sorta doesn't matter when you consider the speed difference, Ryuunosuke isn't hitting an FTL guy just because he has precog.

 

[Fallen_Angelicx]

I mean if Ryuunosuke don't got very good dodging skill Sans' literal first attack is indeed lethal in less than a second, don't know how that was never mentioned lol

His first move according to my opponents within the debate isn't using his abilities. It's using Social Influencing. This isn't valid. But to answer your question;

Nor does this matter, Ryuunosuke can see it before it strikes giving him enough time to prepare for the attack in the present..... That's the point of Precognition. Even if u can't react in real time, you can if u see it coming. Aswell as he has Self Perception hax which let's him view the world in slow motion meaning his moves will appear slow to him.

His normal acrobatics allows him to dodge at point blank A attack reflection that reflects back it's opponent with the same force and speed produced in real time. I think he'll be fine normally even without Precognition.

I know you're desperate for my engagement with you, but I think I'll cut you off here, ya addict!

I'm not. I just find "Nuh uh, you're just wrong" an invalid argument. Nothing's wrong with trying to defend your side either so idk why you have a problem when I do it .

It sorta doesn't matter when you consider the speed difference, Ryuunosuke isn't hitting an FTL guy just because he has precog.

Excuse me?;

Unconventional Precognition (Ryuunosuke is able to look into the future to see his attacks conventionally landing on his opponents from the future making them a sure hit and undodgeable when resonated in the present[69][70])

This has nothing to do with conventional speed. It's just pure future attacking hax similar to something like Yhwach's. Show me resistance to Precognition on San's profile for him to be unaffected. Clearly it's not something you can react to unless u can counter it with a resistance since it's not speed based. Idk why you brought this up.

The fact that Ryuunosuke can get to blitz tiers while near death with his Statistic Amplification. Sans reactions therefore doesn't matter even if Ryuunosuke doesn't use his ability because it's unquantifiable and Ryuunosuke also has a unquantifiable counter speed amp to his reactions.

 

[Fallen_Angelicx]

If Reaper decides to back off that's fine. There's over 1000 members on the wiki and 10+ Mods to discuss the issues I have with this match with.

 

[Fallen_Angelicx]

To further validate my point. This is what @ActuallySpaceMan42 says is needed to resist Ryuunosuke's Unconventional Precognition;

From what I understand, this character's ability involves a form of precognition that shows them the specific actions they need to take to land a hit, rather than just glimpses of the immediate future. My understanding is as long as the character remains in sync with the present ('resonates'), they are guaranteed to land a hit unless the opponent possesses an ability that counters precognition or there is really no possibility of them landing a strike due to an unbridgeable skill gap

San's neither has a counter to this ability as far as I can see, no Precognition resistance nor Is he more combat skilled than Ryuunosuke to the point it's unbreachable as Ryuunosuke's has Shinpei who has dealt with future knowing characters like Frisk to counter and has more combat feats overall. Feel free to argue with @ActuallySpaceMan42 if you disagree with his judgement.

 

[Omegabronic]

To further validate my point. This is what @ActuallySpaceMan42 says is needed to resist Ryuunosuke's Unconventional Precognition;

San's neither has a counter to this ability as far as I can see, no Precognition resistance or Is more combat skilled than Ryuunosuke to the point it's unbridgeable as Ryuunosuke's has Shinpei who has dealt with future knowing characters like Frisk to counter and has more combat feats overall. Feel free to argue with @ActuallySpaceMan42 if you disagree with his judgement.

aka someone with much higher reaction speed, skill and hax to stop himself from being hit will still be able to dodge.......all which Sans has

 

[Fallen_Angelicx]

aka someone with much higher reaction speed, skill and hax to stop himself from being hit will still be able to dodge.......all which Sans has

Ryuunosuke has blitz tiers Statistics Amplification to counter his reactions, since both are unquantifiable they'll cancel out each other. He doesn't start with his hax which stops himself from getting one shotted due to this;

Weaknesses: He tends to be rather lazy and won't fight unless it's absolutely necessary.

He'll start with Social Influencing according to @ShionAH and his supporters aswell.

Cherry on top, AGAIN Ryuunosuke can forsee movements from the future where he exists and see San's in slow motion. He has a direct counter to Reaction speed and be easily caught off guard by Ryuunosuke since he knows the distant future.

We can debate Sans being more skilled than Ryuunosuke because I heavily disagree and is able to counteract that. This skill isn't ungapable to the point Sans skill stomps at baseline seeing their profiles however. Not that skill matters much since Ryuunosuke has this;

Action Mimicry (Ryuunosuke is able to copy any action and movement of his opponents instantly, as how he mimic'd Shide's technqiues with a naginata and made it his own which is later confirmed by him[78][79])
Analytic Prediction & Information Analysis (By mimicking the moves of his opponents, he's able to read and see through their attacks inevitabely countering them however he wishes[80])

He'd be analyzed and countered in the first few few seconds of their fight upon seeing his movements once. Ryuunosuke also has his own specific ANPR aswell as Shinpei who fights alongside him has ANPR. The skill difference would be non-existent with these capabilities.

 

[Eden_Warlock99]

Ryuunosuke has blitz tiers Statistics Amplification to counter his reactions, since both are unquantifiable they'll cancel out each other.

One that he only occasionally uses to "evade offguard attacks or attacks he cant normally react to," so clearly nothing offensive.

 

[Fallen_Angelicx]

One that he only occasionally uses to "evade offguard attacks or attacks he cant normally react to," so clearly nothing offensive.

Ok? Occasionally ≠ Those will always or were always the only times he uses this ability. He uses his ability to attempt a blitz against Shide in their fights as a first move twice casually. I made the profile and those were just notable feats that were impressive for mid battle. The struggle is pointless.

Off-topic, this also means Sans would never be able to hit Ryuunosuke since he can amp his reactions to blitz tiers. This is a clear stomp match.

 

[Omegabronic]

He'll start with Social Influencing according to @ShionAH and his supporters aswell.

......your point? how does that correlate to the fact that he will dodge? and use his haxes to dodge?

if Ryu equalizes with Sans' reactions.......Sans can just use Teleportation to dodge instead, thus having the advantage in movement

Cherry on top, AGAIN Ryuunosuke can forsee movements from the future where he exists and see San's in slow motion. He has a direct counter to Reaction speed and be easily caught off guard by Ryuunosuke since he knows the distant future.

We can debate Sans being more skilled than Ryuunosuke because I heavily disagree and is able to counteract that. This skill isn't ungapable to the point Sans skill stomps at baseline seeing their profiles however. Not that skill matters much since Ryuunosuke has this;

it absolutely does, as said by Spaceman "possesses an ability that counters precognition or there is really no possibility of them landing a strike due to an unbridgeable skill gap"
aka if they can make sure a hit will not hit......then it doesn't matter, which Sans has here as Ryu cannot hit him in a space if Sans teleports out of said space, making the hit impossible to hit

He'd be analyzed and countered in the first few few seconds of their fight upon seeing his movements once. Ryuunosuke also has his own specific ANPR aswell as Shinpei who fights alongside him has ANPR. The skill difference would be non-existent with these capabilities.

except.......knowing what Sans will do is not enough, Chara/Frisk knew it........they couldn't ever hit him no matter how many times they attacked, tried, and re tried, over and over, only hitting sans once he was literally too exhausted to move properly

simply memorizing Sans' movements is not enough to hit him, plus.........Ryu wouldn't be able to mimic his teleportation, making him be in the disadvantage in movement no matter what via that method

 

[Omegabronic]

Off-topic, this also means Sans would never be able to hit Ryuunosuke since he can amp his reactions to blitz tiers. This is a clear stomp match.

1 he can win without hitting him by forcing him to stay still with 4th Wall Break
2 Gaster Blasters are blitz faster than Sans and Frisk/Chara, so......yeah, he can in fact hit him still

 

[Fallen_Angelicx]

aka if they can make sure a hit will not hit......then it doesn't matter, which Sans has here as Ryu cannot hit him in a space if Sans teleports out of said space, making the hit impossible to hit

So his only escape from this ability is Teleportation? So then Ryuunosuke tires him out similar to ingame Undertale until he's done. A single break Sans takes would get him one shotted from his Unconventional Precognition and AP gap & Ryuunosuke will be able to barely up if he were to amp himself giving Sans no room to breath. Its still a stomp regardless.

except.......knowing what Sans will do is not enough, Chara/Frisk knew it........they couldn't ever hit him no matter how many times they attacked, tried, and re tried, over and over, only hitting sans once he was literally too exhausted to move properly

Wdym? Knowing the future ≠ Prediction of movements my guy. Ryuunosuke is copying Sans movements as he attacks or makes a slight stature, anticipating & replicating them which would give him the same capabilities as him rather than Frisk knowing what Sans will do, and Sans countering by simply knowing of it happening himself. Not a comparable analogy. It is why Analytic Prediction and Precognition are different and one is a sub power of another.
It's a stomp regardless.

simply memorizing Sans' movements is not enough to hit him, plus.........Ryu wouldn't be able to mimic his teleportation, making him be in the disadvantage in movement no matter what via that method

He doesn't need to. All he needs is one moment of San's in a neutral stance. If that doesn't work then he tires him out until Sans is unable to teleport anymore since he doesn't have infinite stamina & this is ASSUMING Sans typically spams teleportation to escape attacks. Teleportation is the only thing Sans has to escape his fate and once that's gone he gets one shotted for reasons I mentioned in posts above.

he can win without hitting him by forcing him to stay still with 4th Wall Break

1. Not a starting move
2. Without a doubt, Ryuunosuke is able to one shot him before he pulls this out with his own starting moves.

Gaster Blasters are blitz faster than Sans and Frisk/Chara, so......yeah, he can in fact hit him still

Well well well. Ryuunosuke's stat amp allows him to blitz people blitz tiers faster than himself. Aka Shide can blitz Ushio (characters inverse) who is faster than Ryuunosuke normally but Ryuunosuke with stat amp while his organs smashed, tendons broken and on the verge of death is blitzing Shide. A healthy Ryuunosuke due to SBA would be even faster . Both unquantifiable at baseline and lead the same above 1 blitz tiers results. Due to this, I believe Ryuunosuke will not get hit.

Reminder. I've already mentioned His Time Precognition, Multiple forms of ANPR & his Passive Slow motion Perception hax which make him even more untouchable. Being simply faster than Ryuunosuke isn't a defeater to him.

 

[Fallen_Angelicx]

In addition. Sans is not the only person who can counter those who know the future. SHINPEI AJIRO who fights along Ryuunosuke in the same body can out smart opponent's with sheer brain power who sees his future and the future itself ahead of time no matter what the era, they can read his mind, they literally 'became' him using his own thoughts against him, had a tracker on him so no matter what timeline he goes to they'll know, had prior knowledge of Shinpei's capabilities & even know how to use the full extent of time reseting without knowing the full capabilities himself. Frisk and Sans situation on time resets isn't a special case, Shinpei does this with sheer skill and intellect with a lot worse disadvantages without anticipation while having no prior knowledge of his opponent like San's does. Shinpei happens to be a helping hand in the same body as Ryuunosuke using his intellect as they fight. Mind sharp, Shinpei using his Own Info Analysis and Intelligence can counter San's future anticipation skill relaying info to Ryuunosuke giving him the Q to one shot him.

 

[Fallen_Angelicx]

I love how the opposition is ignoring the fact that the wincons they propose wasn't (in the match) & isn't a starting move of San's. Social Influencing is the starting move and his wincon. Whatever you're saying now doesn't matter because they weren't the set wincon the actual match had to offer. What you're saying now are just ways and arguments San's CAN win which isn't the point of this thread. That's for versus matches in general. Im arguing why this match should be removed from profiles based on the wincons proposed within the match.

 

[TheOrangeGuy09]

Fallen_Angelicx thought Ryanno would win, saw Sans won, so now he copes

 

[Fallen_Angelicx]

Fallen_Angelicx thought Ryanno would win, saw Sans won, so now he copes

Is this really all you had to contribute to the discussion?

 

[TheOrangeGuy09]

Just observing and making a conclusion.

 

[Fallen_Angelicx]

I'ma just wait and pull up when the authorities arrive ngl. Not getting anywhere otherwise it seems.

 

[Fallen_Angelicx]

......your point? how does that correlate to the fact that he will dodge? and use his haxes to dodge?

if Ryu equalizes with Sans' reactions.......Sans can just use Teleportation to dodge instead, thus having the advantage in movement

Ohh I just seen this after my wiki loaded up since it's kinda laggy. I'll address this final piece and dip for now.

Already stated that his Teleportation will not last forever and he'll eventually tire out since his stamina isn't infinite and is suspectable to get tired in his own game after a while of attacking. A single moment of a breather will just leave him open to get hit by Ryuunosuke. Which is a one shot via his chain scale and a surehit via his Precognition hax.
In summary, he's just gonna run and run until he's out of breath to teleport anymore making him vulnerable to being hit.

 

[ShionAH]

He cannot attack from the future, it was rejected

 

[Fallen_Angelicx]

He cannot attack from the future, it was rejected

No it wasn't. Not entirely at least.

From what I understand, this character's ability involves a form of precognition that shows them the specific actions they need to take to land a hit, rather than just glimpses of the immediate future. My understanding is as long as the character remains in sync with the present ('resonates'), they are guaranteed to land a hit unless the opponent possesses an ability that counters precognition or there is really no possibility of them landing a strike due to an unbridgeable skill gap.

Cons to @ActuallySpaceMan42. He's stated to exist 2 seconds into the future on his profile.

Time-Based Precognition (Ryuunosuke is printed & shifted in coordinates 2 seconds ahead in time,

Hence why when his attacks resonate into the present, they're surehits. He is attacking his opponent from the future but the only counter is resistance to Precognition or The skill gap is too big for it to work. Space accepted Ryuunosuke having sure hit attacks that resonate from the future which shows the actions needed for his hits to connect. Sans has no Resistances, counters or capabilities on his profile to evade these. Y'all are being dishonest on purpose.

 

[Fallen_Angelicx]

He cannot attack from the future, it was rejected

Why is this even being brought up? Even if you disagree....;

I love how the opposition is ignoring the fact that the wincons they propose wasn't (in the match) & isn't a starting move of San's. Social Influencing is the starting move and his wincon. Whatever you're saying now doesn't matter because they weren't the set wincon the actual match had to offer. What you're saying now are just ways and arguments San's CAN win which isn't the point of this thread. That's for versus matches in general. Im arguing why this match should be removed from profiles based on the wincons proposed within the match.

You're punching air rn. It's not helping your case for the match removal. They're still accepted as surehits and undodgeable conventionally without the required resistance or skill. No one has indulged on that so far.

 

[StrymULTRA]

Judgment for The Devil of Rhine: Sans VS Tanya von Degurechaff:

Both at 9-A Speed is equalized Fight takes place at the Brandenburg Gate (Berlin, Germany) Both start 20 meters from each other Fight ends in Death "Do you wanna have a Bad Time?":7 (JustANormalLemon, Stillwinston, FantaRin_The_First, TheKillerYT, MaidRips, Artorimachi_Meteoraf...

vsbattles.com

Sans vs Tanya should be removed, as the fight only used the 9-A version of the latter.

As Sans is now upgraded to 9-A, Tanya lost the one shot advantage, which is her only wincon.

Bump

 

[Mr. Bambu]

Done so.

 

[LordGriffin1000]

Judgment for The Devil of Rhine: Sans VS Tanya von Degurechaff:

Both at 9-A Speed is equalized Fight takes place at the Brandenburg Gate (Berlin, Germany) Both start 20 meters from each other Fight ends in Death "Do you wanna have a Bad Time?":7 (JustANormalLemon, Stillwinston, FantaRin_The_First, TheKillerYT, MaidRips, Artorimachi_Meteoraf...

vsbattles.com

Sans vs Tanya should be removed, as the fight only used the 9-A version of the latter.

As Sans is now upgraded to 9-A, Tanya lost the one shot advantage, which is her only wincon.

Someone removed it already it seems.

 

[Fallen_Angelicx]

Bump
Note: Sans is 9-A now but still gets one shotted since Ryuunosuke scales to someone who can one shot another character that upscales massively above a character that did a 0.0096 feat. More reason for it to be removed since it's a stomp.

Bump

 

[Wonder_of_Fantasy]

Requesting the removal of the match between Marisa and Asriel due to it being an objective stomp. Asriel supporters argue that he begins with a 2-B info hax nova from the outset, which Marisa cannot resist or survive. This clearly violates the thread rules that prohibit frame 1 victories from being added to profiles.

Despite this, the match was added after a FRA train, which seems to prioritize the addition of a match over addressing concerns and talking points. This is a straightforward case of procedural oversight.

Here are the affected profiles here and here.

 

[StrymULTRA]

If we wanna go this route (not that I care much) is the removal of Mettaton vs Homelander.

The OP kept pushing for the possibility for Homelander being able to flip MTT and push his switch, making the latter go in his more vulnerable EX form, however, there are issues:

• This weakness could only be exploited if the opponent knows about it, as Frisk could never know about it had it not for Alphys telling him.
• Homelander literally cannot harm Mettaton due to the latter's durability being absurdly high above his AP to the point of being completely immune to attacks comparable to his ATK
  • Mettaton's AP scales to 7.430253959e+10 J, while Homelander's AP at best is 8.2043848e10 J, meaning that the gap is x1.1 (aka MTT would take minimal damage anyway)
• The entire thing about Undertale SOUL manipulation negating durability anyway, allowing MTT to kill in far less hits required than normal ones without magic, too.

Mettaton objectively stomps, Homelander cannot do anything without making conditions somewhat favorable for him.

 

[Eden_Warlock99]

I don't think AP scaling really works like that in Versus Matches?

 

[StrymULTRA]

I don't think AP scaling really works like that in Versus Matches?

You have a one shot scaling chain above X value, then you one shot people below or equal to X too (it was argued even here, mind u).

But that's just one of the many reasons why that fight is doodoo anyways.

 

[Fallen_Angelicx]

You have a one shot scaling chain above X value, then you one shot people below or equal to X too (it was argued even here, mind u).

But that's just one of the many reasons why that fight is doodoo anyways.

 

[Mr. Bambu]

Requesting the removal of the match between Marisa and Asriel due to it being an objective stomp. Asriel supporters argue that he begins with a 2-B info hax nova from the outset, which Marisa cannot resist or survive. This clearly violates the thread rules that prohibit frame 1 victories from being added to profiles.

Despite this, the match was added after a FRA train, which seems to prioritize the addition of a match over addressing concerns and talking points. This is a straightforward case of procedural oversight.

Here are the affected profiles here and here.

Looking into it a bit, I believe this is a fair removal. Acknowledging that there were arguments on either side, it seems to me that this is a straightforward matter. One also gets the impression powerscalers were seeing different things than me, in Undertale, but it is what it is.

I don't think it is a rule violation in this instance, as there were arguments on all sides and it does not fall to Strym to decide whether a match cannot be added due to being considered a stomp. However, given the prevalence of that topic in the thread's conversation, it really should have been brought to a staff member to weigh in on the matter. In the future, for those poor few who read my words, if you are faced with a thread of controversy such as this, regarding whether or not it is a stomp match (and thus can be added to a profile), do just reach out to one of us to ask. This goes for all people, not just Strym.

EDIT: I've gone ahead and removed it.

If we wanna go this route (not that I care much) is the removal of Mettaton vs Homelander.

The OP kept pushing for the possibility for Homelander being able to flip MTT and push his switch, making the latter go in his more vulnerable EX form, however, there are issues:

• This weakness could only be exploited if the opponent knows about it, as Frisk could never know about it had it not for Alphys telling him.
• Homelander literally cannot harm Mettaton due to the latter's durability being absurdly high above his AP to the point of being completely immune to attacks comparable to his ATK
  • Mettaton's AP scales to 7.430253959e+10 J, while Homelander's AP at best is 8.2043848e10 J, meaning that the gap is x1.1 (aka MTT would take minimal damage anyway)
• The entire thing about Undertale SOUL manipulation negating durability anyway, allowing MTT to kill in far less hits required than normal ones without magic, too.

Mettaton objectively stomps, Homelander cannot do anything without making conditions somewhat favorable for him.

This... is significantly more dubious of a request, one feels. Arguments could be made on the matter, but really, the thread just had minimal discussion to begin with. I'll ping @Psychomaster35 to (in one message, with no followup discussion, preferably) give his thoughts on the matter on whether it is a stomp or not. Maybe hear from other staff, if possible.