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Undertale Yellow Discussion Thread

Adem_Warlock69 said:
Every Froggit in UT has the exact same stats?
Click to expand...
Every one you face. Then there's the Froggit NPCs who look exactly the same yet show an absurdly higher level of inteligence.
If there can be such a massive disparity in cognitive capabilities between members of the same species that look identical to each other, why can't there be a small stat difference?
Why would Clover encounter one strangely weak Froggit that seemingly just disappeared when Frisk fell?
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The Ruins are big enough to have a city with several buildings, there's enough space for one Froggit to never show up in-game.
I get the narrative point, but it gets contradicted by Flowey considering the 15 ATK Ceroba somewhat on-par with Asgore (Literally every single Waterfall Monster would be stronger than her and Clover reached Hotland without Flowey's help before)
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And if you quit geno in Steamworks Flowey will finish off in one attack that Clover that took on a supposedly an Asgore level threat, which kinda destroys the whole "Flowey can't take on Asgore" narrative
and the "Zenith of Monsterkind" being weaker than every Core Mercenary?
Click to expand...
I honestly don't know what to make of Z!Martet. The statement is there but it would have been really easy to tweak the damage calculation to make the monsters' stats higher without breaking the game.

Does anyone else here have any strong opinion about this?
 
Rodri_Dante said:
True, but the damage Clover deals with their gun is determined by their own attack stat, so their physical stats should scale to whatever they can accomplish with their gun (Or downscale since they most likely can't take advantage of the ammunitions by punching)
Click to expand...
I can kinda understand the logic, but Frisk/Chara (with both DETERMINATION and LV) still got trapped by opponents like Papyrus, Undyne, Muffet (pretty sure she has a higher rating because she can restrain Chara), Flowey (note that you can abort Yellow's Geno by sparing Axis, leading to the neutral route and you know what happens there) and Sans (the weakest enemy btw). It's likely LS does increase with those things, but not by a substantial much that would allow them to scale to Monsters.

Also they've got no feats in the same range that support this and have an anti-feat going against them. Speaking of which!
Rodri_Dante said:
That anti feat would probably also contradict the High 8-C rating. Clover also didn't have any way to push down the door by themselves.
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AP and LS are seperate ratings so I don't think this would contradict that (the main thing contradicting the High 8-C rating is the attack differing between the Trailer and the Game). Also that second argument... doesn't support your case for LS scaling?

Also, semi-related, but if both Dunebug's and Flowey's feats give Clover a "possibly" rating in Geno key, shouldn't they be listed as one thing instead of seperate like:
Class 100 (Titanium Cylinder feat), possible Class M (Scaling to Flowey and Dunebug go here)
Click to expand...
Personally, that seems a lot nicer to look at, plus you might not even need to include Dunebug if it's already in the weaker keys.
 
Diamond_Drone said:
I can kinda understand the logic, but Frisk/Chara (with both DETERMINATION and LV) still got trapped by opponents like Papyrus, Undyne, Muffet (pretty sure she has a higher rating because she can restrain Chara), Flowey (note that you can abort Yellow's Geno by sparing Axis, leading to the neutral route and you know what happens there) and Sans (the weakest enemy btw). It's likely LS does increase with those things, but not by a substantial much that would allow them to scale to Monsters.
Click to expand...
I'm guessing you're talking about the SOUL modes of Undertale, in which case I don't see how being able to lift certain ammount of weigh would make someone able to un-blue or un-green their SOUL, and Muffet's webs are a construct independent of her (Or at the very least I don't see she being actively making an effort to prevent you from breaking free of the webs).

And in Flowey case it would just mean he also scales to the castle feat. His own feat took him effort and has a lower number, but between it being done in a single frame (Meaning it could have a higher acceleration and we wouldn't know) and the fact it is not only moving the door but also going against whatever mechanism is keeping it closed means it wouldn't be an anti-feat for him
Also they've got no feats in the same range that support this and have an anti-feat going against them.
Click to expand...
Isn't that how "possibly" ratings work?
AP and LS are seperate ratings so I don't think this would contradict that (the main thing contradicting the High 8-C rating is the attack differing between the Trailer and the Game).
Click to expand...
Is contradictory in the sense that, even with a pityful destructive capacity, a character with High 8-C ap should be able to go trough the door after attacking it several times. In fact, Ceroba does exactly that off-screen while you're fighting Axis
Also that second argument... doesn't support your case for LS scaling?
Click to expand...
What I'm saying is, even with the LS needed, Clover had no way to push the door down (The door has nothing that would let them have a good grip, and pushing the door from the top would just make Clover lift themselves up). Is a similar case to trying and failing to grab and pull the end of a tape roll, in the sense that you have the strentgh to do it but there's no way to grab it.
Also, semi-related, but if both Dunebug's and Flowey's feats give Clover a "possibly" rating in Geno key, shouldn't they be listed as one thing instead of seperate?
Click to expand...
That would be ideal, but despite both being in the same range there's a 171 times gap between them and I feel is necesary to make it clear.
 
BTW, is there a reason why several sandboxes are just using the stats from UT? And I don't mean the check stats, I'm talking about the AP and speed values.

I'm not 100% sure of when scaling to canon applies so I only used things explicitly stated or shown in UT for the profile I made, down to having a different and unrelated height for Clover.

The other thing I was thinking about is if characters should be 8-C outright for harming Clover who can take hits from Axis, or have weaker characters at 9-A (Based on Dalv's electrical spheres and Starlo's magic guns) while everyone stronger that Axis is 8-C.

I did the latter in the profile because for most of their journey there's no reason to think Clover gets stronger/more durable outside of equipment and LV, and if I used those to make them vary from 9-A to 8-C then I would have to pick arbitrarily the ammunition/accesory/LV that makes the tier change.
 
Rodri_Dante said:
BTW, is there a reason why several sandboxes are just using the stats from UT? And I don't mean the check stats, I'm talking about the AP and speed values.
Click to expand...
We didn't have any big calcs yet I think

The 9-A values are really high into that tier, with Dalv's 9-A electrical spheres only being x3.4~ lower than Axis' 8-C electrical spheres,
Same thing with Starlo's magic guns (If we use the high-ends) only being x1.3~ lower,
So I'd put them at 9-A personally
 
So, from what I'm gathering:
Speed
All characters have transonic speed, Dalv, Starlo and Ceroba have higher attack speed via lightning, revolver, and hp draining beams since they have to be aim dodged, and Starlo of all people has mach 96.25 attack speed (High Hypersonic+) via magic guns.

Attack Potency/Durability
Dalv has 9-A ap via his own feat, possibly High 8-C+ for being slightly weaker that Dunebud.

Starlo has 9-A+ AP assuming everyone is ok with the high end, possibly High 8-C+ for being stronger than Dunebud

Ceroba is notable because, while everyone is near or superior to Dunebud, she outright one-shots Martlet and Starlo and the feat is already halfway to the next tier. So she should be 8-C for being stronger that Axis, possibly 8-B for one-shooting Starlo.
Her barriers don't seem to be affected by Axis attacks and Clover is incapable of damaging them without Justice Mode, so they get a "Higher" rating
Her defense increases on geno, but I don't know if rage increases her defense or it is implying that she didn't want to fight in pacifist and her defense was lower
The mask should make her stronger given she treats as her last resort, but she doesn't have any feats and her stats are purely internal, so essentially has the same stats while remarking she's stronger. I don't even know if she should have an "At least" preciding her rating, she doesn't deal that much more damage and I don't think Clover gets more durable with Justice Mode.

Axis has 8-C AP via his own feat, possibly High 8-C+ for being stronger than Dunebud.
After detecting a level 10 threat his stats increase beyond those of base Ceroba, and it is implied that this was the state he fought Integrity in. So he should be 8-C, possibly 8-B.

Martlet would be 9-A for being stronger that Dalv, possibly High 8-C+ for being equal to Dunebud.
Her stats get slightly higher in geno and in the battle she points out she's very determined, so she's likely getting a budget Undying boost. She should be 9-A+ for being equal to Starlo, possibly High 8-C+
Finally Z!Martlet should be At least 8-C, possibly 8-B. Probably not much to discuss.

Clover is complicated. Either we keep them 8-C since there's nothing that indicates they get stronger oustside of equipment and LV and technically you can fight Axis at LV 1 with the worst equipment (Even if it is a bad idea), or we put them at 9-A and we decide on what equipment/LV should make the transition to 9-A+ and 8-C.
The geno route is probably the best place to determine which LV gets to what tier since there's a specific LV range the Martlet and Ceroba's fights are built around, but the equipment is very complicated.

Lifting strenght
idk lmao. Clover has a Class 100, borderline Class K feat; Dunebud has a Class 100 feat in-game, Class M in the trailer; Flowey has a Class M feat; Starlo apparently has a class 5 feat but I haven't really looked into the calculation properly. In-game he just creates the horseshoe, lets it fall and then spins it around, no idea if the calculation took that into account.

No idea if people have looked into all of my calculation blog, haven't seen anyone discuss the size I measured for Clover and their SOUL.
 
Wouldn't vaporization have left smoke/vapor behind, smoldering/incandescent remains, or at the very least some dust?
 
Explotions and flamethrowers can burn things but they don't vaporize walls. It only means the beam produces heat... which i should actually add to the page.
 
Violent fragmentation seems fine.
69 J/cc for rock, can't find a value for glass.
btw, windows are usually thinner than the walls they are on.
 
Diamond_Drone said:
Doesn't seem that the calc accounts for the corridor from the next room being visible in the hole. That should be at least a solid meter or two of rock destroyed, I think.
Click to expand...
It’s hard to measure exactly, what measurement do you reccomend i use for the thickness

Also I would have to find the exact area of the window, as it is definitely not a few meters thick
 
CanineAnnoyer said:
It’s hard to measure exactly, what measurement do you reccomend i use for the thickness

Also I would have to find the exact area of the window, as it is definitely not a few meters thick
Click to expand...
The thickness of the wall from that room in the original undertale.

Also frag and v. frag doesn't really work on glass because of how fragile it is. There is a new method that allows for calculation of those things, but I don't this would apply here so I think you'll just have to ignore it.
 
Diamond_Drone said:
The thickness of the wall from that room in the original undertale.

Also frag and v. frag doesn't really work on glass because of how fragile it is. There is a new method that allows for calculation of those things, but I don't this would apply here so I think you'll just have to ignore it.
Click to expand...
I'm not sure how i'm supposed to find the thickness of the wall from the original.

There are some other New Home buildings in UTY which have a fence thing on the roof that looks like a continuation of the wall, so I could use those.
 
CanineAnnoyer said:
I'm not sure how i'm supposed to find the thickness of the wall from the original.

There are some other New Home buildings in UTY which have a fence thing on the roof that looks like a continuation of the wall, so I could use those.
Click to expand...
By measuring the length of it starting from the pre-existing doorway to when it stops at the grey corridor. That room is also in the sprite sheet you provided.

Also I don't know which "fence thing" you're referring to because you've just sent a sprite sheet and told me to look for it.
 
Diamond_Drone said:
By measuring the length of it starting from the pre-existing doorway to when it stops at the grey corridor. That room is also in the sprite sheet you provided.

Also I don't know which "fence thing" you're referring to because you've just sent a sprite sheet and told me to look for it.
Click to expand...
This.

Also, Can you think of a way to find the thickness of the top part of the throne?
 
CanineAnnoyer said:
This.

Also, Can you think of a way to find the thickness of the top part of the throne?
Click to expand...
That is... a completely seperate structure from the feat we're trying to calculate, so no just stick to the room Clover and Asgore are in.

I don't think so, even then we don't really know the composition of the throne so it might very well be useless.
 
Diamond_Drone said:
That is... a completely seperate structure from the feat we're trying to calculate, so no just stick to the room Clover and Asgore are in.

I don't think so, even then we don't really know the composition of the throne so it might very well be useless
Click to expand...
I'll redo the calc later, I already redid it several times in the last 24 hours and i'm tired.

The throne looks like its made of gold
 
Y6MLGYv.png

No wonder UTY has Clover go straight to the barrier skipping the room in between.
So how does this even work? Did someone put a window with a wall on the other side?
Or am I supposed to interpret this as a glass decoration with a metal frame put on top of a wall?
I'll assume the latter for the sake of the calc.
68Z5wdb.png

Hole Radius a: ((142.25/29)×48)/2 = 117.724137931cm
Hole Radius b: ((142.25/29)×55)/2 = 134.892241379cm
Hole Depth: (142.25/29)×42 = 206.017241379cm
Hole Volume: π×117.724137931×134.892241379×206.017241379 = 10282073.363cm^3
Violent fragmentation: 10282073.363×69 = 709463062.047 joules / 0.16 tons of tnt (9-A, Small Building level+)

Is slightly weaker than Starlo's high end
 
Rodri_Dante said:
Y6MLGYv.png

No wonder UTY has Clover go straight to the barrier skipping the room in between.
So how does this even work? Did someone put a window with a wall on the other side?
Or am I supposed to interpret this as a glass decoration with a metal frame put on top of a wall?
I'll assume the latter for the sake of the calc.
68Z5wdb.png

Hole Radius a: ((142.25/29)×48)/2 = 117.724137931cm
Hole Radius b: ((142.25/29)×55)/2 = 134.892241379cm
Hole Depth: (142.25/29)×42 = 206.017241379cm
Hole Volume: π×117.724137931×134.892241379×206.017241379 = 10282073.363cm^3
Violent fragmentation: 10282073.363×69 = 709463062.047 joules / 0.16 tons of tnt (9-A, Small Building level+)

Is slightly weaker than Starlo's high end
Click to expand...
Thank you
 
Again, I don't know why we would just copy-paste the stats from vanilla UT.

UTY is not UT, but a fan interpretation of what UT is.

Also that upgrade sucks ass but no one is ready for that conversation.
 
I don't see it as "UTY is not UT enough, so we shouldn't copy-paste the stats", but rather as "The numerical stats of UT shown in VSBW are not objective facts established within the game. Rather, like with any other verse, they are a subjective interpretation that several people agreed on. On the other hand, like any other piece of fan content, UTY is the subjective intepretation of a group of fans of the world of UT, so the interpretations of an unrelated group of people shouldn't apply to it"
 
Rodri_Dante said:
I don't see it as "UTY is not UT enough, so we shouldn't copy-paste the stats", but rather as "The numerical stats of UT shown in VSBW are not objective facts established within the game. Rather, like with any other verse, they are a subjective interpretation that several people agreed on. On the other hand, like any other piece of fan content, UTY is the subjective intepretation of a group of fans of the world of UT, so the interpretations of an unrelated group of people shouldn't apply to it"
Click to expand...
Well, didn't Dalv come from Waterfall (Where all of the monsters in that area scale to 8-B)? I'm sure anyone encountered after him can scale to the rating.
 
Psychomaster35 said:
Well, didn't Dalv come from Waterfall (Where all of the monsters in that area scale to 8-B)? I'm sure anyone encountered after him can scale to the rating.
Click to expand...
Everyone would scale via upscaling from Froggit (Clover can Check em in the Intro)
Although, they're arguing we shouldn't use the VSBW stats cause they're a subjective interpretation and stuff
 
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