Jujutsu Kaisen Discussion Page #1

[Giannysmag]

Just got told Kusakabe is stronger than Nanami. I don't know why this arc has created so much discrepancy in everyone's views on the characters.

I mean

Straight from the horse's mouth

 

[LIFE_OF_KING]

Who the heck is Usami

 

[Arkenis]

I mean

Straight from the horse's mouth

Die.

 

[Rosa]

Die.

we really gonna equate pre-Shibuya Kusakabe to Shinjuku Kusakabe who's stated to have improved his CE reinforcement and has vastly superior feats of damaging Sukuna?

 

[LIFE_OF_KING]

Who is stronger isnt only about raw power

Kusakabe is stronger simply due to his skill level and simple domain

 

[Arkenis]

we really gonna equate pre-Shibuya Kusakabe to Shinjuku Kusakabe who's stated to have improved his CE reinforcement and has vastly superior feats of damaging Sukuna?

Yeah? Kusakabe improved reinforcement not output, and the Sukuna thing is against a Sukuna who is uninterested in Kusakabe, making his ce levels drop more. Forget the fact Kusakabe has zero feats without his simple domain in this arc.

 

[Duedate8898]

Reinforcement is related to output, as seen by Sukuna's reference to Ryu when cutting up yuji and yuta

we really gonna equate pre-Shibuya Kusakabe to Shinjuku Kusakabe who's stated to have improved his CE reinforcement and has vastly superior feats of damaging Sukuna?

While it's defintely true that Shinjuku Kusakabe should be tougher and stronger than his Shibuya self, since Nanami is also quoted in this interview it would have to take place before his death. So Nanami probably considered Shibuya Kusakabe above himself.

 

[Giannysmag]

Who the heck is Usami

The Chinese sorcerer Sukuna fears

 

[Sir_Marvulous]

While it's defintely true that Shinjuku Kusakabe should be tougher and stronger than his Shibuya self, since Nanami is also quoted in this interview it would have to take place before his death. So Nanami probably considered Shibuya Kusakabe above himself.

Yeah, but Mei Mei's comment suggests it's not in terms of strength

Though of course Shinjuku Kusakabe has feats that probably puts him above them

 

[Giannysmag]

Die.

Depends on what you classify as "stronger", i consider someone to be stronger not just based on raw power but who can beat the other more consistently

 

[Arkenis]

Reinforcement is related to output, as seen by Sukuna's reference to Ryu when cutting up yuji and yuta

Wdym? He talks about Ryu's toughness not his output, when have reinforcement and output been related?

 

[Arkenis]

Depends on what you classify as "stronger", i consider someone to be stronger not just based on raw power but who can beat the other more consistently

Well I am just referring to output here, not beating.

 

[Sir_Marvulous]

Wdym? He talks about Ryu's toughness not his output, when have reinforcement and output been related?

To be fair, output has been used as an umbrella term way too many times

It's clarified that output and reinforcement aren't necessarily the same, but they're typically related

 

[Giannysmag]

Well I am just referring to output here, not beating.

I still think current Kusakabe > Nanami in power tbh

 

[M3X_2.0]

when have reinforcement and output been related?

Only once.

 

[M3X_2.0]

And even this could be Yuta referencing Ryu's Granite Blast output.

 

[Sir_Marvulous]

Only once.

Isn't this the one instance where it's most implied that output and reinforcement have something to do with strength?

 

[Arkenis]

Probably the fact that output has been used as an umbrella term way too many times

When has output be used to talk about reinforcement? The Ryu vs Yuta fight was pretty clear reinforcement and output were different.

I still think current Kusakabe > Nanami in power tbh

What feats does he have without simple domain?

Only once.

That is Yuta talking about Ryu's output being instantaneous and Ryu talking about Yuta's reinforcement being good?

 

[Giannysmag]

Only once.

I think output would be considered the additional bit of CE that flows into a punch, while reinforcment is the cursed energy that is constantly flowing through a sorcerer's body

 

[Giannysmag]

What feats does he have without simple domain?

What feats does Nanami have without Ratio?

 

[M3X_2.0]

I think output would be considered the additional bit of CE that flows into a punch, while reinforcment is the cursed energy that is constantly flowing through a sorcerer's body

Yep. Reinforcement can be these three things and output is one of them, output isn't necessarily related to reinforcement, as this scan says.

 

[Arkenis]

I always though Gojo saying Yuta has poor ce control meant his output was poor since we see his reinforcement is always high to everyone, even to strong hitters like Yuji and Ryu

 

[Sir_Marvulous]

When has output be used to talk about reinforcement? The Ryu vs Yuta fight was pretty clear reinforcement and output were different.

When Sukuna and Gojo's outputs were shot late into their battle, Sukuna makes note of the fact that a normal output Purple would be fatal for him at that distance due to his weakened state, implying it wouldn't necessarily be fatal otherwise. They only ever use the word output within this sequence of events, never specifically using the word reinforcement. Obviously output and reinforcement aren't related necessarily, but it typically seems to be the case as far as I can tell

 

[M3X_2.0]

I always though Gojo saying Yuta has poor ce control meant his output was poor since we see his reinforcement is always high to everyone, even to strong hitters like Yuji and Ryu

I think it's more related to efficiency, since Yuta has nigh unlimited CE he doesn't care that much about spending it. His output was complimented a few times.

 

[Arkenis]

What feats does Nanami have without Ratio?

How does this answer my question? Nanami has scaling above Todo and Yuji during Goodwill and then has a statement for being comparable to Yuji in Shibuya. That's more than anything Kusakabe has in statements or feats.

I think it's more related to efficiency, since Yuta has nigh unlimited CE he doesn't care that much about spending it. His output was complimented a few times.

I only remember Ryu saying its not bad, what were the other times?

 

[Duedate8898]

Wdym? He talks about Ryu's toughness not his output, when have reinforcement and output been related?

Ryu is a great case for output and reinforcement being related as Sukuna notes how Yuta and Yuji aren't tougher than him. Ryu has the greatest output of all the culling games players, that's his most notable feature.

And reinforcement is a form of output it's just not an offensive use of it

 

[Sir_Marvulous]

When Sukuna and Gojo's outputs were shot late into their battle, Sukuna makes note of the fact that a normal output Purple would be fatal for him at that distance due to his weakened state, implying it wouldn't necessarily be fatal otherwise. They only ever use the word output within this sequence of events, never specifically using the word reinforcement. Obviously output and reinforcement aren't related necessarily, but it typically seems to be the case as far as I can tell

Ok, so he does make mention of his reinforcement. However, it also moves into him saying that it's not in perfect shape rn, which is when their outputs are shot. I took that as output and reinforcement scaling proportionately at least. That's just me

 

[M3X_2.0]

I only remember Ryu saying its not bad, what were the other times?

When the narrator says it's only slightly below Ryu's who has the highest of all.

 

[Sir_Marvulous]

Ryu is a great case for output and reinforcement being related as Sukuna notes how Yuta and Yuji aren't tougher than him. Ryu has the greatest output of all the culling games players, that's his most notable feature.

And reinforcement is a form of output it's just not an offensive use of it

Y'know, Yuta vs Ryu was a dynamic of reinforcement vs output. There was something cool going on there. But no, apparently Ryu might be tougher

 

[Duedate8898]

How does this answer my question? Nanami has scaling above Todo and Yuji during Goodwill and then has a statement for being comparable to Yuji in Shibuya. That's more than anything Kusakabe has in statements or feats.

Mei Mei compares Yuji to Kuskabe as well in Shibuya. And he blocks an Uzumaki from Kenjaku, that's a pretty good feat

 

[Sir_Marvulous]

Mei Mei compares Yuji to Kuskabe as well in Shibuya. And he blocks an Uzumaki from Kenjaku, that's a pretty good feat

That might have been through Simple Domain given his stance icl

 

[Sir_Marvulous]

That might have been through Simple Domain given his stance icl

Nvm. I checked. He wasn't using the Simple Domain stance

Kusakabe is just like that

 

[Duedate8898]

As noted by Kusakabe while fighting Sukuna, Simple Domain only does so much to help neutral an attack. Still a solid feat

 

[Sir_Marvulous]

Kusakabe was able to block an Uzumaki that utilized Mahito after he had evolved. So surely he was a strong grade 1 in terms of sheer strength even back then

 

[Rosa]

Yeah? Kusakabe improved reinforcement not output, and the Sukuna thing is against a Sukuna who is uninterested in Kusakabe, making his ce levels drop more. Forget the fact Kusakabe has zero feats without his simple domain in this arc.

reinforcement is how much you're amplifying your body with CE, so Kusakabe's sword swings would be included. Reinforcement isn't exclusive to output.

 

[Arkenis]

Mei Mei compares Yuji to Kuskabe as well in Shibuya. And he blocks an Uzumaki from Kenjaku, that's a pretty good feat

That was for how good of a sorcerer he was, Yuji fought a Semi Grade 1 curse during that as well. And again Reinforcement and Output just aren't equal and Kusakabe never shows this even then.

Ryu is a great case for output and reinforcement being related as Sukuna notes how Yuta and Yuji aren't tougher than him. Ryu has the greatest output of all the culling games players, that's his most notable feature.

And reinforcement is a form of output it's just not an offensive use of it

I think though, that reinforcement is overall higher for most sorcerers. I'm mostly just taking issue with the idea output and reinforcement are relative when they don't seem to be. Ryu tanking dismantle yet GB isn't strong enough to harm Yuta like dismantle did to Ryu, or the fact Yuji and Yuta reinforcement is below Ryu's and their output is below their reinforcement.

Do ya think Yuji is hitting hard as Ryu?

 

[Arkenis]

reinforcement is how much you're amplifying your body with CE, so Kusakabe's sword swings would be included. Reinforcement isn't exclusive to output.

But it clearly is used like that? They talk about reinforcement as defense, not offense. Would you say Yuji's output is now equal to Yuta's?

 

[Rosa]

But it clearly is used like that? They talk about reinforcement as defense, not offense. Would you say Yuji's output is now equal to Yuta's?

when has reinforcement ever been used in a way that's excluding one's offensive ability? Reinforcement doesn't exclude output, nor is it equal to output, reinforcement is, as the word implies, your REINFORCEMENT of one's body with CE, output is the more generalised notion of how much CE you can put into something at any given point.

 

[JnSteHar002]

Borrowing from HXH and what most of everyone's saying,
It sounds like CE Reinforcement refers to the principles of Ten, Ren and/or Ken where overall physical capabilities are increased while output would be more like Ko and/or Ryu w/one specific aspect increased whether it be a simple strike, CT etc.

 

[Arkenis]

when has reinforcement ever been used in a way that's excluding one's offensive ability? Reinforcement doesn't exclude output, nor is it equal to output, reinforcement is, as the word implies, your REINFORCEMENT of one's body with CE, output is the more generalised notion of how much CE you can put into something at any given point.

When Yuta's body is reinforced by his curse energy and Ryu says its like punching a water tank. I guess though Yuji does relate power to reinforcement when talking about Yuta doing it, but these examples just seem out of place. You would agree though output is more about how strong one's strikes or ct is?