The_Yellow_Topaz
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I guess Berdly's feat will be axed for the same reason?
Ay, bro. Add Berdly's feat to the OP, it's the same kind of feat.
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8-C Deltarune is kil
- Thread starter Arceus0x
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Why, though? I don't see anything wrong with it since Berdly was in the direct epicenter of his coaster exploding to nothing.
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- #83
Idk but technically Berdley was in the very middle of the cart and on the inside which is different from the machine feat...i guess? I'll let y'all decide that ig I am only here to nuke the machine feat.
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With Berdly feat you mean the cart or the wire one?
The_Yellow_Topaz
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Cart one.
So was Kris' SOUL.
The explosion happened from the inside of the cart, which means a shielding effect is still possible.
It isn't. Be consistent.
Mr. Bambu
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Speaking without the context of actually playing the game (thus I might defer to Therefir's opinion, should he come here and make a compelling enough case that differs from my own), I think the OP is basically sound in its reasonings and agree with kicking out the 8-C scaling as a result.
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This is likely going to affect 2 verses I know then. Aight then.
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- #90
How much should I wait for therefir before applying this? Could you please ping him here?
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What's the berdly feat
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- #93
Deltarune: A Gamer‘s Coaster Explodes
vsbattles.fandom.com
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- #94
Berdley wires feat shouldn't apply since he survived the explosion point blank and it was an actual explosion scaled by its size not by the destruction it causes to an object
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I have a little doubt tho. Shouldn't the duck's attacks scale to the explosion anyways? Similar to Spamton's case I mean.
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- #96
Why would they scale?? The duck literally gets vaporized. If it isn't getting vaporized then the calc's invalid. If the duck does get vaporized then it doesn't scale since it doesn't have the durability to even slightly tank it.
Mr. Bambu
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You don't necessarily have to wait for Therefir, I was mentioning him because he was mentioned by others. If he doesn't show then he doesn't show, although he'd be within his rights to make a counter-CRT if there's strong evidence against the conclusion here.
Theoretically, the grace period is 48 hours, during which you need to get two staff approvals or wait until you have them. After that, the thread can be applied and closed.
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- #98
welp, since you and Armor agree with this and the opposition conceeded with Armor's points, I will wait through tomorrow and then apply this (or if anyone else wants to do it then they can do it)
Recon1511
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The_Yellow_Topaz
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This one would fall under the same criteria.
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Bumping this.
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Actually, why are we treating the Thrash Machine exploding as if it was some kind of self-destruction device going off, instead of a magic attack which would scale to the machine's AP and Kris' durability?
Treating it as if the machine absorbed the explosion and therefore Kris did not take full the yield is odd, it's assuming that the explosion went off inside the machine when there is no indication of that, we saw the explosion outside the machine the moment Kris' soul hits it.
Treating it as if the machine absorbed the explosion and therefore Kris did not take full the yield is odd, it's assuming that the explosion went off inside the machine when there is no indication of that, we saw the explosion outside the machine the moment Kris' soul hits it.
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The_Yellow_Topaz
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I'm usually on your side but this is not it. It was assumed to be an explosion because it's coming from a supposedly functional machine, like the calc assumes. Saying it's a magical explosion with magic properties is a bigger assumption (No, the world itself being inherently magical doesn't make it less of an assumption), it's quite literally destroys itself. Although I'd have to say, Kris is still scaling to it's full yield, we've debated this and got to the definitive conclusion that he was close enough
This was debated to hell and back but the explosion showing up in front of the Duck is graphical limitation. Furthermore we could very well be seeing the blast expanding from inside out, that is also a valid interpretation. The limitation here is that, since Kris is behind the duck, and the explosion is in front of the duck (or inside it), the machine shields him from some or most of it's yield. Thus it's impossible to get a value from that.
One more thing, why was Duck Machine even scaled to this attack? It's a self-destroying explosion, it's not something any Darkner can do, and it literally destroys itself, so even then it shouldn't be scaling to Ch 1 characters.
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It obviously doesn't scale to its durability, but it should scale to its AP (with Self-destruction/environmental destruction I guess). I just find it hard to believe that TM is capable of releasing a much stronger "attack" than other characters.
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If we are assuming that Kris was behind the machine and the explosion occurred inside of it, can't we just calculate how much energy it would take to destroy the head/tail which is much farther away that Kris was from the explosion?
The_Yellow_Topaz
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That doesn't solve for the shielding process, it's not a matter of distance unless Kris is between the explosion and the second object. Because either way the path to the head isn't shielded by anything substantial, whereas Kris has the whole Duck body shielding them.
If it's a nature of it's existence rather than exertion of it's prowess then it's fine. Also this would imply any character with a similar defensive stat could be able to generate force enough to destroy themselves.
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I mean a lot of the monsters in Undertale are basically Glass Cannons like Vulkin, so the Duck likely is under the same logic.
The_Yellow_Topaz
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Vulkin has a high ATK and low DEF stat, Duckie has the same stat in both, so unlikely. I don't think we should scale it to it's own self-destructing move, not that we can even get a value from that.
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Yeah, where are you getting that?
The_Yellow_Topaz
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I was under the impression that this was the reason why we were scaling the Ch 1 Characters to Duck Machine.
Why the hell do they even scale then? "Regardless of defense" implies one can edit Kris defense and make it 1 and they'd still take 1 damage, but that wouldn't be canon as you would be hacking to get information. If that's allowed, I should be able to use this to see that the Thrash Machine has 9 ATK, not 1, meaning only characters that have 9 ATK or higher would scale to this.
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Because of Jevil.
The_Yellow_Topaz
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Jevil is a boss character, and likely the strongest Ch 1 enemy, it wouldn't justify why fodder enemies scale to the full yield of the machine's attack
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Didn't know the fodder scalaed. all i knew was chaos king, jevil, and chp1 heroes scaled.
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I think it's because, all equipment being equal, the Delta Warriors' defense doesn't change between chapters.
The_Yellow_Topaz
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Yeah but 1 dmg is always dealt regardless of stat, you could be at the end game, if you have the opportunity to fight a Ch 1 character, it will deal 1 damage too. This happens because of how the damage is calculated, it's no different than a Pokemon game. That's why the scaling shouldn't even be possible.
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Honestly Jevil should simply downscale from Spamton NEO, as the holders of the ShadowCrystals are a league on their own compared to the other characters, and Spamton definitely knows how strong Jevil is.
(Also because saying that Jevil is barely on fodder Ch2 enemy tier makes 0 narrative sense).
(Also because saying that Jevil is barely on fodder Ch2 enemy tier makes 0 narrative sense).
The_Yellow_Topaz
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Yeah, currently fodder chapter 1 enemies are scaled off Jevil who scales above Spamton who scales above fodder chapter 2 enemies, who should scale above fodder chapter 1 enemies. This is kind of circular tbh
Imho;
Giga Queen > Spamton NEO > Jevil > Spamton > Average Ch 2 enemy > Average Ch 1 enemy.
Placement of King and Queen can be based around stats ig
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