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Below actually I have him around S0 tier
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BAN-KAI! Bleach General Discussion
- Thread starter Zoro21043
- Start date
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I guess let me reword it, do you think Res Hikone is in the same general league as the WSK or do you think WSK tier would one shot Res Hikone?
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Well, I guess Aizen is S0 Tier, since after all, Aizen has to be serious to fight Hikone. Let's downgrade his profile from 3-C to 4-A.
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Ik you think aizen surpassed WSK but he actually didn't. The databook just says aizen surpassed the state of God and not wsk in particular. Wsk gave almighty yhwach such a massive Amp to the point yhwach was overwhelmed by his power. Tho muken aizen be on wsk level or around it.
That being said no hikone gets washed by wsk
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Minor error,get him.
Guacamolefletcher
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Aizen in his 4th fusion form objectively reaches the level of the WSK
Twisted_Little_Raven
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I personally don't buy that statement seems like exaggeration and we didn't even know what level wsk was during it. Just typical hyperbole. It also could just be like a state of existence in comparison to everyone else nothing says it's wsk
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“Have you considered stand up comedy?”
1) that last sentence doesn’t make sense? Did you mean to say Hikone gets washed by WSK?
2) So with Yhwach absorbing WSK, it’s not like his body couldn’t contain that power. Yhwach has to contain his own power at that time (which he states is stronger than WSK) and then has to add WSK on top of that. Meaning that Yhwach couldn’t handle the addition of his power + WSK. Which isn’t the same as saying he cannot handle WSK’s power. That’s just a blatant misunderstanding of what’s going on.
3) Your scaling takes get worse each time
Guacamolefletcher
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All Imma say is Soi Fon says "I can't feel the Soul King's reiatsu anymore!!!!" and Kisuke couldn't sense 2nd fusion Aizen
Guacamolefletcher
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Blatant context missed
It's just objective that he scales to the Reio in 4th and 5th > Reio
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All I'm gonna say is that the WSK is objectively well below TS Ichigo, and we currently accept that Dangai/Mugetsu is around True Shikai. Third Fusion Aizen being WKS level is consistent.
Twisted_Little_Raven
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2nd fusion Aizen was getting his armor destroyed by characters he's ridiculously above. You're probably gunna be like "its just his shell" right so the only reason the real Aizen didn't get damaged is because of said shell protecting him. Then Gin goes on pierce through him (but muh off guard and muh lowering myself). Plus his shell should be superior to his regular durability since is also the case with animals in the wild where they are softer underneath. Shown with Gin
Twisted_Little_Raven
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No because TS Ichigo is superior to or =mugetsu who is superior to dangai, who is superior to monster Aizen who is superior to butterfly.
No where near consistent for third fusion
Guacamolefletcher
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We can debate this Raven
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1) the shell durability scales below Aizen, the databooks verbatim state that Isshin’s Getsuga did 0 damage to Aizen despite breaking the shell, ik you girlboss about the databooks being wrong, but that means nothing
2) Aizen when going through Karakura Town had lowered his power level so much that people like Tatsuki could sense him. Meaning he had nerfed himself to be below Condom Aizen. So Gin stabbing him isn’t an antifeat.
You summarized the counters to your argument and attempted to paint them out as “bad arguments” or “copes” when all you did was show that your interpretation is dookie and you have no ground to stand upon.
Yall should vc debate it, that would be peak comedy.
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True Shikai Ichigo one-shotted the WSK with a weak ahh attack. By the way, I confused Third Fusion with Butterfly, so yeah, that scaling chain doesn't look like a reach to me.
Twisted_Little_Raven
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Because it was protecting him
This is just cope. Aizen's shell > his normal durability
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Neither of those address nor defeat my arguments you bulverist. Your argument is defeated by hitchen’s razor. Your stance just also isn’t consistent whatsoever. Aizen was so much stronger than Isshin that he couldn’t sense Aizen’s power. No sell gaps in Bleach are less than the gap between Aizen and Isshin. Furthermore, once Aizen decided to stop playing with the Bleach Sannin he no diffs them all. The only way your claim works is if you think Isshin is relative to Condom Aizen, which is blatantly refuted in every piece of media involving Bleach.Because it was protecting him
This is just cope. Aizen's shell > his normal durability
Also, I assume you’re bringing these up in refutation to the WSK level Aizen stuff. But no one thinks Aizen is WSK level until he gets to Fourth Fusion. So truly I’m confused at what you’re trying to get at it with these booty cheeks takes.
Twisted_Little_Raven
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You know he only got serious when it got destroyed right almost like that's the only time he was vulnerable. Plus again it protected him from being harmed
Wtf is that
He got serious when they dmged enough of his shell because they posed a threat. Isn't it convenient that when his shield was up and healthy he no sold everything? Why is it conveniently when his armor is jeopardized he goes all out and then later we see gin pierce him hmmmmmmmmmm
His armor was already taking cracks before that he's just exploiting the already done damage. He literally got combo attacked with cracks already in the shell. He's above them but he's still not a transcendent being so the gap isn't so high they can't damage. Can't sense =\= can't damage
Nah u have said plenty he was wsk level
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Nah aizen behind the shell is on a higher plane isshin stated it didn't even feel like he cutt aizen. Gin only hurt aizen cuz he's aizen lowered himself back to 3DBecause it was protecting him
This is just cope. Aizen's shell > his normal durability
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Aizen wasn't at all harmed by the attack, so no he wasn't vulnerable. Implying that despite cracking the shell, Isshin wasn't actually capable of harming Aizen's true form, inherently meaning Aizen's true form is above the shell. This is supported by the fact that all of the Bleach Sannin's attacks were in vain, which means they didn't do anything to Aizen.
Google it
The scans I provided just refute this headcanon.
No I haven't. I only ever claimed that Fourth Fusion was WSK level, as per what's on his profile. Since Aizen's scaling on wiki is my scaling. You're blatantly dishonest. Point out when I said Second or Third fusion Aizen was WSK level?
Raven is a confirmed Reio35 victim.
Twisted_Little_Raven
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He wasn't transcendent so it doesn't matter Grimmjow and the random Quincy in the flash back couldn't sense osho's reiatsu. If Grimmjow did he would know Osho is ludicrously above the Aizen that reiatsu crushed Grimmjow thus shouldn't challenge him and we know Osho is still a shinigami he just represents their peak and neither is second fusion only third fusion is a transcendent being. Otherwise I'm getting sealed Osho to transcendent tier
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It's stated in CFYOW that Grimmjow would bare his fangs towards Aizen even though he'd lose. So this argument is just trash. Grimmjow is stated in CFYOW that he'd attack opponents he would blatantly lose to.
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He thinks he's that guy...
Twisted_Little_Raven
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Not really I'm making a point Ichibei has never been sensed by another shinigami not even in Bankai and we don't treat him as transcendent. The same thing for second fusion Aizen really. It's not even a Grimmjow would fight stronger opponents he didn't even know he was strong to begin with lol didn't sense his level at all
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Second Fusion Aizen and Ichibe don't have comparable situations at all... Ichibe has no statements that his reiatsu is unsensible and he has no scaling that places him on that level. That's just a baseless assertion by you. Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence. Grimmjow wanting to fight Ichibe means nothing, Grimmjow concedes that he would fight characters he thinks he can't win against. It's just part of his nature as someone who wants to be the king. We don't treat Condom Aizen as transcendent either, transcendence starts at Fourth Fusion Aizen, we just treat Condom Aizen as having an unsensible gap in power between like top tiers of the verse like the Bleach Sannin.
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Shouldn’t oetsu be above Bankai shutura although we don’t know is full power he’s considered to be second strongest zero division after ichibei
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Does anyone mind telling me the context of what happened when Ginjo hit Tokinada with a Getsuga “that rivaled Ichigo’s strongest?” Like did he get hit and tank it, or divert it somehow?
Twisted_Little_Raven
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This is just stupid tbh. Has never been sensed by anybody in the series and nobody even noticed his Bankai but because it specifically didn't say his reiatsu is unsensible it doesn't count? I'm sorry but this is just stupid. This is what I mean when I say y'all pick and choose when something is important. Unohana says Kenpachi would have beaten Royd? Legit. Unohana says shes stronger than everyone but full potential Kenpachi? Nah.
Then stop. Reio literally mentioned 3D and you liked the comment
Right so the gap isn't so high he can't be damaged so it doesn't prove he's above his shell. Because they couldn't sense the Aizen underneath? Is the shell supposed to have its own reiatsu??
Yet Osho
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He didn't get hit or tank it at all. He diverted it just enough with a massive amped technique to barely avoid it.
Click on spoiler: chapter 4
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Incredulity + Bulverism + Nonsequitur. No one gives a fvck if you think it's absurd. That doesn't counter the argument so concession accepted.
I liked Reio's comment cuz he disagreed with your scaling, that doesn't mean I fully endorse Reio's scaling. I've already explained to you why it's idiotic to just extrapolate intention from me liking a message.
Condom Aizen isn't damaged tho. It's verbatim stated he took 0 damage. The shell is it's own thing with its own durability that's weaker than Aizen's actual power yes. I've already provided evidence and reasoning behind that.
Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence. Just because no one explicitly says they can sense Ichibe doesn't mean that no one can sense Ichibe.
You debate solely with fallacies lmao.
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Thank you my friend lol. Was there another point in the novel where Tokinada did tank a Getsuga from a weaker form of Ginjo? Just asking cause his profile states he tanked a Getsuga
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CFYOW profiles are horrendously outdated. I wouldn't take anything you read on them as like concrete. But no Tokinada doesn't tank any Getsuga from Ginjo. In fact Ginjo almost splits Tokinada in half.
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Yeah that’s what I thought while looking at it lol. Was like no way he tanked a Getsuga like that
Twisted_Little_Raven
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It is stupid. Because not every transcendent was said to be unsensible it's just they have direct scaling. This is why it's stupid cause your own logic doesn't even get used anymore. Characters aren't stated to be unsensible anymore which is why you bring up examples like Ichigo lowering his reiatsu.
Shell protected
It's just a protective layer. Did they say "the shell can be sensed but the real him can't" I doubt it says this specifically. Remember how u mocked the fact I think it's stupid Ichibei reiatsu isn't stated to exactly be unsensible? Plus sensible is relative to the person. He's not transcendent... Meaning he's not wsk level. So if kisuke couldn't sense him there is no proof Ichibei wouldn't. So your logic of "needs to be said to be unsensible" doesn't work as whether you can be sensed or not depends on your opponent..
Right but this logic isnt used when they don't say "I can't sense this person" anymore. Arguing with you is impossible because we take everything u say as true
Twisted_Little_Raven
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Show me all the examples post Ichigo vs Aizen where characters are directly said to be unsensible. I'll be waiting
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I don't care what you find absurd Raven, take your incredulity elsewhere. Characters not being stated to be unsensible doesn't debunk or refute my logic. In fact that isn't a part of my argument at all. My argument is that absence of evidence is not evidence of absence. The onus is on you to prove that Ichibe's reiatsu is unsensible if you wanna scale him to that level. And the argument of "oh well Grimmjow was gonna fight him and we aren't explicitly told his reiatsu is sensible" isn't an argument, as per my refutations.
No it didn't cuz the Getsuga burst through the shell. The shell explicitly did not stop the attack.
That doesn't need to be said specifically, this is a nonsequitur to my argument. Again you're asserting that absence of evidence is evidence of absence, which is a logical fallacy.
I agree that Condom Aizen and Ichibe aren't WSK level. As I said before, I think Fourth Fusion Aizen is WSK level.
You'd have to prove Ichibe can sense Aizen, if you want to make that claim.
That's not my logic, stop strawmanning my arguments.
Guacamolefletcher
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Guacamolefletcher
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Low key Raven’s argument borders on confidence scaling for Grimmjow, when bro is notoriously a fraud and overestimates himself. He was gonna try fight TSI too, and he’s still a fraud capping below base Aizen and Respira
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