Jujutsu Kaisen Discussion Page #1

[Maitreya12]

That's not even what my argument was, my argument is Sukuna says his CE Output (in general as in not specifically his CT) is fluctuating when he's checking up on himself. CE starts from a sorcerer's gut and flows to the rest of the body which amps physicals, activating a CT then requires them to pour CE into their CT that is engraved onto them, those are 2 mechanisms I don't see how further nerfing pouring CE into an engraved CT is contradictory.

Ok stop:

I'm arguing from the fact that CE output is a general term

That’s literally what your argument was about. It’s literally what you said you were arguing from.

You can’t say things like this:

My interpretation is that Sukuna's CE output is fluctuating and then that fluctuation becomes a nerf (hence stronger rejection) when he attacks Yuji or Maki.

While also saying his CT output is being reduced more than his overall output because the first statement when Sukuna says his CE output is fluctuating, is in reference to when he’s using his CT to attack Yuji:

So since Sukuna is making the “general CE output is low” statement as his explanation for why his CT isn’t being as effective on Yuji, this has to mean his physicals are being reduced alongside his CT since you’re taking this first statement by Sukuna as a “general” statement to mean his overall CE output. One can’t be being reduced more than the other in this statement, which is a contradiction.

So either the positions you’re taking with what your translator says is wrong and his physicals and CT are both reduced at once, or “CE output” isn’t being used as a general term here and instead in reference to just his Technique’s output, something he specified moments later.

 

[YukaSama4]

I mean we still haven't touched that part where 15F Sukuna reacted to a serious Gojo and blocked him, or when prime Toji was said to be relative to 3F Sukuna in speed lol

 

[Arkenis]

I mean we still haven't touched that part where 15F Sukuna reacted to a serious Gojo and blocked him, or when prime Toji was said to be relative to 3F Sukuna in speed lol

The 15f thing isn't really crazy, it isn't like Gojo gained some wild speed amp. Whats wrong with Toji scaling to 3f sukuna? It isn't like that's Toji's max speed nor that Megumi's just correct on that either.

 

[Maitreya12]

I mean he gives compliments to Mahoraga yet he thinks Maho is 3f level. This is pretty similar to that, he's praising those weak because he's surprised by their level of power compared to his power.

Sukuna compliments Mahoraga cause he just deflected his CT and then said he “might’ve lost” against him when he was at 3F level. Sukuna is someone who acknowledges and values strength,

The reason one would be reduced more is because it's stronger. Dismantle and cleave are slashing attacks, they are simply superior to his punches or kicks.

Nothing like this is ever said by Sukuna, all he says is “when he attacks” is when the body strongly resists against him. He never says something like “oh certain kinds of attacks are fine but other more lethal kinds aren’t.” So no, one shouldn’t be more reduced than the other because both things are still “attacks” onto Megumi’s friend.

Because that's two different ways of outputting ce? Physical output and CT output are different. And he used it on the ground to catch em off guard by destroying their foothold which is what happened. You can look at Yuta vs Ryu's battle as an understanding for how physical output and ct output are different, Yuta using Ryu's ct can output a higher amount of ce than his normal punches.

But if you’re using “CE output” as a general term like the premise is, then physical and CT output have to be reduced at the same time because that’s what Sukuna says in his first statement. Why would he bother using his CT on the ground to create an opening to physically punch them instead of just using his CT on them. His physicals output has to be not reduced for that scene to make sense since Sukuna was literally talking about getting around his output being reduced in the scene to begin with.

I would like to show ya these two panels as I believe it shows it as his overall ce output rather than just ct output alone. Fighting Yuji, he's surprised by Yuji's sudden gain in strength, but in reality Sukuna is the one who's gotten weaker from Megumi's influence. And then him saying he'd need to polish the form up as well, could be wrong but it would imply the form overall is just weaker due to Megumi not just his ct output.

I’d like to also show you the followup panels to these two as well because I think they’re very important in the point you’re trying to make.

https://cdn.****************.com/file/CDN-M-A-N/jjk_213_cursed6_009.png

The first image Sukuna realizes why Yuji is so strong at the moment, and it doesn’t have to do with Sukuna’s CE output falling, it has to do with Yuji’s own backstory. And with Maki this is a person he acknowledges as someone who isn’t weak, not that he himself is weakened and thereby think Maki is strong. Especially since he comes to this conclusion after realizing she had taken care of Nue.

 

[YukaSama4]

The 15f thing isn't really crazy, it isn't like Gojo gained some wild speed amp. Whats wrong with Toji scaling to 3f sukuna? It isn't like that's Toji's max speed nor that Megumi's just correct on that either.

It is crazy, because Kenjaku himself was about to get mopped the floor with by that Gojo but Sukuna jumped in and blocked him, while now you have to argue that Yuji and Maki are capable of doing the same thing to Gojo, putting each one of them far above Kenjaku.


As for Toji no There's nothing implies he was holding back or something, even in this fight when Sukuna was only defending, one hand was enough to catch everything Maki has to offer, which is also supported by the fact that Kenjaku who had memories about Gojo from hidden inventory made it clear that 15F Sukuna is a plan to deal with Gojo, putting Sukuna even above people like Toji.

There is also Sukuna blitzing Ryu who's relative to Yuta in speed.

Anyways last time this was discussed it didn't lead to a result and Mait said he's gonna create a thread for the topic.

 

[Arkenis]

Sukuna compliments Mahoraga cause he just deflected his CT and then said he “might’ve lost” against him when he was at 3F level. Sukuna is someone who acknowledges and values strength,

Nothing like this is ever said by Sukuna, all he says is “when he attacks” is when the body strongly resists against him. He never says something like “oh certain kinds of attacks are fine but other more lethal kinds aren’t.” So no, one shouldn’t be more reduced than the other because both things are still “attacks” onto Megumi’s friend.

But if you’re using “CE output” as a general term like the premise is, then physical and CT output have to be reduced at the same time because that’s what Sukuna says in his first statement. Why would he bother using his CT on the ground to create an opening to physically punch them instead of just using his CT on them. His physicals output has to be not reduced for that scene to make sense since Sukuna was literally talking about getting around his output being reduced in the scene to begin with.

I’d like to also show you the followup panels to these two as well because I think they’re very important in the point you’re trying to make.

https://cdn.****************.com/file/CDN-M-A-N/jjk_213_cursed6_009.png

The first image Sukuna realizes why Yuji is so strong at the moment, and it doesn’t have to do with Sukuna’s CE output falling, it has to do with Yuji’s own backstory. And with Maki this is a person he acknowledges as someone who isn’t weak, not that he himself is weakened and thereby think Maki is strong. Especially since he comes to this conclusion after realizing she had taken care of Nue.

I'm confused. Are you disagreeing with Kaiyo's translation or something? Because what you're arguing doesn't make sense with the raw translated.

 

[Maitreya12]

I'm confused. Are you disagreeing with Kaiyo's translation or something? Because what you're arguing doesn't make sense with the raw translated.

How he interprets the translation I disagree with. Like how they say “Sukuna’s physical CE output is fluctuating at below 10% and his CT output is even lower than that.” Which is not said in the raws or how they say Sukuna’s first statement doesn’t have anything to do with CT and makes no mention of CT output being reduced, even though Sukuna’s first statement is specifically about his cursed technique’s output being reduced when he’s using it against Yuji.

So I don’t know if it’s the translations or words rather than the conclusions they came to.

 

[Arkenis]

It is crazy, because Kenjaku himself was about to get mopped the floor with by that Gojo but Sukuna jumped in and blocked him, while now you have to argue that Yuji and Maki are capable of doing the same thing to Gojo, putting each one of them far above Kenjaku.


As for Toji no There's nothing implies he was holding back or something, even in this fight when Sukuna was only defending, one hand was enough to catch everything Maki has to offer, which is also supported by the fact that Kenjaku who had memories about Gojo from hidden inventory made it clear that 15F Sukuna is a plan to deal with Gojo, putting Sukuna even above people like Toji.

There is also Sukuna blitzing Ryu who's relative to Yuta in speed.

Anyways last time this was discussed it didn't lead to a result and Mait said he's gonna create a thread for the topic.

Okay well for one the Sukuna that Yuji and Maki fought is pre bath and the one Gojo clashed with for a moment is post bath, the whole thing was meant to bring him closer to evil and submerge Megumi so he couldn't nerf Sukuna's output anymore. So none of that follows if you include that.

Idk what you're even talking about with Toji, the statement is about 3f Sukuna not 15f.

 

[Arkenis]

How he interprets the translation I disagree with. Like how they say “Sukuna’s physical CE output is fluctuating at below 10% and his CT output is even lower than that.” Which is not said in the raws or how they say Sukuna’s first statement doesn’t have anything to do with CT and makes no mention of CT output being reduced, even though Sukuna’s first statement is specifically about his cursed technique’s output being reduced when he’s using it against Yuji.

So "and his ct output is even lower than that" you're saying this isn't in the raw?

 

[Maitreya12]

So "and his ct output is even lower than that" you're saying this isn't in the raw?

Yeah, it’s not said that Sukuna’s CT is operating at an even lower percentage than the “below 10%” statement Sukuna made from what I’ve seen.

 

[YukaSama4]

Okay well for one the Sukuna that Yuji and Maki fought is pre bath and the one Gojo clashed with for a moment is post bath, the whole thing was meant to bring him closer to evil and submerge Megumi so he couldn't nerf Sukuna's output anymore. So none of that follows if you include that.

Idk what you're even talking about with Toji, the statement is about 3f Sukuna not 15f.

Bruh do u know what are we talking about now? Mait is arguing that Megumi didn't affect Sukuna's output except the output that he uses to attack with a CT, meaning Sukuna's speed and strength wasn't affected at all, meaning Maki and Yuji scale to 15F Sukuna fully in speed and strength, they just don't scale to Sukuna's cleave and dismantle

 

[YukaSama4]

The discussion isn't about scaling Yuji and Maki to a nerfed Sukuna, it's about scaling Yuji and Maki to full power 15F Sukuna

 

[Arkenis]

Bruh do u know what are we talking about now? Mait is arguing that Megumi didn't affect Sukuna's output except the output that he uses to attack with a CT, meaning Sukuna's speed and strength wasn't affected at all, meaning Maki and Yuji scale to 15F Sukuna fully in speed and strength, they just don't scale to Sukuna's cleave and dismantle

You brought up 3f Sukuna scaling to Toji so I was addressing that, you started bringing up a bunch of other scaling. But yeah idk why ya go straight to the assumption Sukuna was trying in speed here? And then even if this was the case, you brought up Kenjaku and how he'd lose to Yuji and Maki, would that make sense with what's happened so far? Maki stating how Yuki is the same rank as Yuta lost with the help of Choso and Tengen, her literally saying "we always knew Kenjaku would be a challenge", or Kenjaku being unimpressed by Yuta, or the fact Kenjaku is a special grade sorcerer?

 

[Arkenis]

Also the Japanese raw is a being a bit hard to translate off google translate but the french translation says "but at least I can move about correctly".

 

[YukaSama4]

You brought up 3f Sukuna scaling to Toji so I was addressing that, you started bringing up a bunch of other scaling. But yeah idk why ya go straight to the assumption Sukuna was trying in speed here? And then even if this was the case, you brought up Kenjaku and how he'd lose to Yuji and Maki, would that make sense with what's happened so far? Maki stating how Yuki is the same rank as Yuta lost with the help of Choso and Tengen, her literally saying "we always knew Kenjaku would be a challenge", or Kenjaku being unimpressed by Yuta, or the fact Kenjaku is a special grade sorcerer?

I brought these points to show that scaling Maki and Yuji to 15F Sukuna is inconsistent with the rest of the story, because Toji was said to be relative to Sukuna in speed, however he's arguing that Maki (who's on par with Toji) is on 15F Sukuna's level, Kenjaku was about to get killed by Gojo instantly if Sukuna didn't jump in and block that Gojo, however he's arguing that Maki and Yuji are on that Sukuna's level so (I'm saying) according to him they are far above Kenjaku, and so on with the other points that I brought

 

[YukaSama4]

Also the Japanese raw is a being a bit hard to translate off google translate but the french translation says "but at least I can move about correctly".

Tbf I always explained that scene as "Megumi isn't interfering with Sukuna's movements, like Sukuna is fully controlling the body, because just shortly before it, when Sukuna hit Yuji with dismantle, and noticed that his output is getting lower we saw that his fingers were moving indicating Megumi did something, which is why after that immediately when Yuji punched him he started to check by opening and closing his hand.

So if viz is correct, then that's my opinion on it, if what MAX said is correct, then there u go we got another evidence that they don't scale to 15F Sukuna lol, because basically he translated it as "my movements aren't nerfed as much" or something in this meaning

 

[Arkenis]

Well I think the simple answer is that Sukuna is pre bath against Yuji and Maki, the one who stopped Gojo was a post bath Sukuna who got stronger. I kinda addressed this before but I will make a list for reasons why:

During Maki and Yuji vs Sukuna, Sukuna says he'll have to polish up the form, implying the form isn't optimal for use
The Bath is meant to bring him closer to evil and submerge Megumi's soul so he can't nerf the output any further

 

[Maitreya12]

So if viz is correct, then that's my opinion on it, if what MAX said is correct, then there u go we got another evidence that they don't scale to 15F Sukuna lol, because basically he translated it as "my movements aren't nerfed as much" or something in this meaning

Yeah I’m gonna be honest dude, I have no idea what that translator guy is trying to say for that part of the statement. What he says makes no sense.

He says that the first statement is about general CE output and not CT so his physical output fluctuates at below 10% and his CT output is even lower but also at the same time says Sukuna’s “physical body isn’t that bad compared to his CE output.”

But again….that doesn’t make any sense. Since his physical movement is based on his CE output, which he’s saying is fluctuating to below 10%. Like you see what I mean, it doesn’t make sense. How could his physical movement be “not that bad” when compared to his CE output if his CE output is the thing influencing his Physcial movements to begin with?

 

[YukaSama4]

Yeah I’m gonna be honest dude, I have no idea what that translator guy is trying to say for that part of the statement. What he says makes no sense.

He says that the first statement is about general CE output and not CT so his physical output fluctuates at below 10% and his CT output is even lower but also at the same time says Sukuna’s “physical body isn’t that bad compared to his CE output.”

But again….that doesn’t make any sense. Since his physical movement is based on his CE output, which he’s saying is fluctuating to below 10%. Like you see what I mean, it doesn’t make sense. How could his physical movement be “not that bad” when compared to his CE output if his CE output is the thing influencing his Physcial movements to begin with?

I get that, but maybe it refers to physical movement in a different meaning than that of what we usually use, like maybe its saying, "Megumi affects my output causing it to fluctuate, at the lowest its under 10%, but he doesn't affect my movements as much as that" so physical movement here would be a separate thing from output and it would mean his ability to control the body, Megumi can't affect that as much as he can affect the output.

 

[eibwen]

Spoiler: what the actual ****?

aint no way, what the fk happened, like brpo what???????????

 

[eibwen]

Spoiler: nah bruh this is F tier writing

* edit: there were more leaks shows that gojo admitted the defeat himself, and sukuna isnt even using full power, I will not belive gege can deal with the fans with this kind of writing

 

[YukaSama4]

What did I just wake up to see
I'm curious what happened though, is that maximum cleave? Or did Sukuna get back his domain?

 

[YukaSama4]

Spoiler: nah bruh this is F tier writing

* edit: there were more leaks shows that gojo admitted the defeat himself, and sukuna isnt even using full power, I will not belive gege can deal with the fans with this kind of writing

We already know Sukuna wasnt going all out, it was stated, we just didnt know whats he hiding, so just chill and wait to see how Gege made it play out, if its a cool end then I dont really mind

 

[eibwen]

We already know Sukuna wasnt going all out, it was stated, we just didnt know whats he hiding, so just chill and wait to see how Gege made it play out, if its a cool end then I dont really mind

Spoiler

already know? bro you can not just says that because of one new chapter

 

[Arkenis]

Spoiler

Might actually be the worst death in new gen history just being honest. I don't gaf how this shit is explained. We saw how terrible Yuki was done, Kenjaku reveals he's been using the rct and bam comes out unscathed with the base ct and now this LOL. And now people gonna defend any new major reveal as good writing after this. A simple incap could've been done and it would've been fine. And all people can say to defend this is plot

 

[YukaSama4]

It was stated 2 weeks ago wdym "because of one new chapter"??

If Im angry about anything, its just that how it was badly shown like that, like we suddenly get a panel of Gojo sliced in half, like if the chapter started with the fight scene again and Sukuna started to shit talk and explain things or whatever that wouldve been fine, but this way it feels Gege just didnt know how to write it so he just gave us the result like that

 

[eibwen]

 

[eibwen]

It was stated 2 weeks ago wdym "because of one new chapter"??

If Im angry about anything, its just that how it was badly shown like that, like we suddenly get a panel of Gojo sliced in half, like if the chapter started with the fight scene again and Sukuna started to shit talk and explain things or whatever that wouldve been fine, but this way it feels Gege just didnt know how to write it so he just gave us the result like that

i mean, there were explaination tho, just mahogara carried everything, and that the thing nuke the worlds around gojo

 

[YukaSama4]

So what actually happened? Sukuna sent a cleave and it kept moving in Gojo's infinity but Gojo with the six eyes couldnt see it until it finally reached him and sliced him in half? Because I dont think Myamura explained everything in his translation

 

[Grand_Astartes]

Me personally, I am baffled

 

[Arkenis]

If Im angry about anything, its just that how it was badly shown like that, like we suddenly get a panel of Gojo sliced in half, like if the chapter started with the fight scene again and Sukuna started to shit talk and explain things or whatever that wouldve been fine, but this way it feels Gege just didnt know how to write it so he just gave us the result like that

Spoiler

Now we're gonna have to get Yuji being able to use Sukuna's base ct and it'll be their main way of beating Kenjaku or Sukuna and people gonna eat it up as good writing cuz "it was foreshadow 200 chapters ago bro its peak"

 

[Grand_Astartes]

So what actually happened? Sukuna sent a cleave and it kept moving in Gojo's infinity but Gojo with the six eyes couldnt see it until it finally reached him and sliced him in half? Because I dont think Myamura explained everything in his translation

I think he was pretty much saying Mahoraga adapted to the point it could cleave through space itself, like spatial manipulation or something? idk I'm confused too a little

 

[YukaSama4]

I think he was pretty much saying Mahoraga adapted to the point it could cleave through space itself, like spatial manipulation or something? idk I'm confused too a little

Thats what Im not getting, Gojo killed it and the wheel is shown to be destroyed

Spoiler

Now we're gonna have to get Yuji being able to use Sukuna's base ct and it'll be their main way of beating Kenjaku or Sukuna and people gonna eat it up as good writing cuz "it was foreshadow 200 chapters ago bro its peak"

If they did then they are stupid, I think even among Gojo fans we knew Gojo is gonna go out, we just didn't know how and Gege made himself look as an example of a writer who didn't know how to end a character

 

[ZinnaiYama]

So what actually happened? Sukuna sent a cleave and it kept moving in Gojo's infinity but Gojo with the six eyes couldnt see it until it finally reached him and sliced him in half? Because I dont think Myamura explained everything in his translation

What probably happened is that Maho have already adapted to infinity and somehow this adaptability got transferred to Sukuna (Which would probably mean that the theory about the 10S is true, which is that after all the shinigamis are dead Sukuna inherits all of their abilities) allowing him to send cleave and bypass infinity

 

[Arkenis]

Spoiler

https://x.com/JJK_Spoilers/status/1704380801406672985?s=20

 

[YukaSama4]

What probably happened is that Maho have already adapted to infinity and somehow this adaptability got transferred to Sukuna (Which would probably mean that the theory about the 10S is true, which is that after all the shinigamis are dead Sukuna inherits all of their abilities) allowing him to send cleave and bypass infinity

The buildings behind Gojo seem to be sliced as well, but I mean, insteaf of drawing 11 pages of Gojo speaking with Nanami and Geto about stupid things, couldn't Gege just draw this properly while explaining it?

 

[YukaSama4]

Spoiler

https://x.com/JJK_Spoilers/status/1704380801406672985?s=20

So basically its the slash from 2 chapters ago? And it kept travelling into that space, and Gojo out of all people who can see CE clearly with the six eyes didnt notice that something wrong is going on in his space?

 

[SirAlex09]

I haven't felt this depressed since Akame ga kill.

 

[Saibotsan]

I think he was pretty much saying Mahoraga adapted to the point it could cleave through space itself, like spatial manipulation or something? idk I'm confused too a little

I think that was what it was, If it was it doesn't make any sense

 

[Duedate8898]

Ya'll seem really riled up from these leaks.