Jujutsu Kaisen Discussion Page #1

[YukaSama4]

On the movement part yes, but the discussion about CE output and CT output is unrelated to the translations, it's just how we should interpret the 2 statements:

1) The first statement was a general one meaning Sukuna's CE was fluctuating, the 2nd statement says the rejection becomes stronger specifically when he uses a CT, so his output is low anyways but it gets more lower when he activates a CT.

2) The first statement about CE output means CT output because in the 2nd statement Sukuna only mentioned CT output, so Sukuna's durability is still as high as he is at 15F, and his speed is the same as well.

 

[TrueKingOfHeroes]

Does the sure-hit factor occur before the domain expansion fully manifest?


Translation from JJKTLMAX, a translator who is often reposted by Myamura

 

[YukaSama4]

Does the sure-hit factor occur before the domain expansion fully manifest?


Translation from JJKTLMAX, a translator who is often reposted by Myamura

Any big move has a start, however Mahito during the Black flash amp was able to do a 0.2s domain and the realisation of the domain + activation of a CT became one step, I think Gojo has the same thing, when he expanded his domain shortly before Sukuna's, unlimited void striked Sukuna immediately, and he's shown to use the same 0.2s domain as Mahito

 

[TrueKingOfHeroes]

Any big move has a start, however Mahito during the Black flash amp was able to do a 0.2s domain and the realisation of the domain + activation of a CT became one step, I think Gojo has the same thing, when he expanded his domain shortly before Sukuna's, unlimited void striked Sukuna immediately, and he's shown to use the same 0.2s domain as Mahito

So it's true?

I think 0.2s only applies to how long the domain expansion landed on enemy, not how fast the domain expansion takes to activate, while Gojo's domain that landed on Sukuna was a domain with a speed of less than 0.01s to activate

 

[YukaSama4]

So it's true?

I think 0.2s only applies to how long the domain expansion landed on enemy, not how fast the domain expansion takes to activate, while Gojo's domain that landed on Sukuna was a domain with a speed of less than 0.01s to activate

I think I got your question now, it's not that the surehit activates before the domain fully manifests, it's that the sure hit has a start that takes place before the domain manifests, and this was implied long ago, one example that I can remember now is this scene

Before Gojo uses his domain, the curses felt the start/occurance of CE of the unlimited void before Gojo activating it.

 

[YukaSama4]

Viz also notes that the manifestation of a domain has the same thing, you can feel based on CE that your opponent is gonna expand his domain, which was also implied here

The guy that I forgot his name felt that Mahito is about to use his domain.

So overall the occurance/start of CE is something that was implied long ago to be a thing, it's just the first time we get a statement about it

 

[SunDaGamer]

Since Mahito's alterations to the soul is treated partially as form of mutilation, hence how he can just kill people he touches instead of changing them we'd assume he also resist attacks on the soul

I'd always assumed that altering the soul's shape to cause the body to become heavily deformed is what caused death to humans (the people that Mahito killed in the theatre died due to cranial deformation and asphyxiation) but since Mahito is a cursed spirit, his body doesn't have to conform to biology like humans do which is why he can change form so freely without any drawbacks. (It's also why RCT can't deal with Idle Transfiguration because reversing transfiguration would require Soul Manipulation, not conventional healing)

I would say both. We know Mahito can take damage against his soul too so Sukuna shouldn't be different.

This makes sense.

 

[SunDaGamer]

The first time he mentions his CE output being reduced was in reference to him just using his CT against Yuji. Meaning the statement of his cursed energy output being reduced was in reference to his cursed technique’s output, which he later specifically clarified in his second statement. There is no mention of “one being reduced more than the other”, that doesn’t make sense.

The argument here starts on a presupposed premise.

What? That tweet literally says "Sukuna had both his GENERAL/OVERALL Output nerfed alongside his cursed technique output nerf" after consulting a Japanese guy who is a translator.
Trying to separate CE output and CT output also doesn't make sense since you have to pour CE (thereby outputting it) into your CT to activate it

 

[Maitreya12]

CE output getting lower was indeed determined/noticed by how his CT didnt do much of a damage, still that doesn't change how it was a general statement that includes everything linked to CE output, which works completely fine with how CTs work, but I think the main thing in that tweet was to argue that Sukuna's movements were nerfed as well, just not as bad as his other moves, which seems to be stated in the raws

Yes it does because the first statement can essentially be read as “my cursed technique’s cursed energy output fluctuates” since the fluctuation he was talking about was in reference to his CT. Which means that there’s no statement saying Sukuna’s movement was nerfed.

We know Sukuna’s movement wasn’t nerfed because he he says that his body is being resisted against “when he tries to harm its allies.” Meaning his body isn’t being nerfed when he’s just moving around and defending himself.

The fact that Sukuna decided to attack the ground with his cursed technique just so that he could punch Maki in the face is also a pretty clear conformation that Sukuna’s physical output isn’t fluctuating, unlike his CT.

 

[Maitreya12]

What? That tweet literally says "Sukuna had both his GENERAL/OVERALL Output nerfed alongside his cursed technique output nerf" after consulting a Japanese guy who is a translator.
Trying to separate CE output and CT output also doesn't make sense since you have to pour CE (thereby outputting it) into your CT to activate it

You’re literally ignoring everything I just said in my post above.

The problem with the tweet is that it it starts on a presupposed premise. Sukuna never stated he had both his “general output nerfed alongside his cursed technique” nor did he say one was more nerfed than the other like the tweet claims. It just presupposes that’s the meaning of his words without looking at the context of the scene.

 

[YukaSama4]

Yes it does because the first statement can essentially be read as “my cursed technique’s cursed energy output fluctuates” since the fluctuation he was talking about was in reference to his CT. Which means that there’s no statement saying Sukuna’s movement was nerfed.

No you can't read it like that because it's a general statement, there is no reason to specify it, yes he noticed that after he hit Yuji with his CT, but he made a general statement, you can't read it as "CT output", CT output also drops when overall CE output gets lower so there's no reason to change the words there just to force Yuji and Maki into the scaling.

We know Sukuna’s movement wasn’t nerfed because he he says that his body is being resisted against “when he tries to harm its allies.” Meaning his body isn’t being nerfed when he’s just moving around and defending himself.

On this part, if the raws specifically say that his movements are affected but not as much as his CE output then your interpretation falls apart, so just as @Duedate8898 said we should ask the site translator to check it.

The fact that Sukuna decided to attack the ground with his cursed technique just so that he could punch Maki in the face is also a pretty clear conformation that Sukuna’s physical output isn’t fluctuating, unlike his CT.

He did that because the rejection gets stronger, it's just a difference or interpretations imo and you can't really dismiss this interpretation, both interpretations are possible based on the chapter itself, we just need to compare it with other scenes and feats from the series to decide which one is more probable, that's for the CE output discussion, but for the movement part it's pretty easy we just need to ask the wiki translator to settle it

 

[SunDaGamer]

Yes it does because the first statement can essentially be read as “my cursed technique’s cursed energy output fluctuates” since the fluctuation he was talking about was in reference to his CT. Which means that there’s no statement saying Sukuna’s movement was nerfed.

We know Sukuna’s movement wasn’t nerfed because he he says that his body is being resisted against “when he tries to harm its allies.” Meaning his body isn’t being nerfed when he’s just moving around and defending himself.

The fact that Sukuna decided to attack the ground with his cursed technique just so that he could punch Maki in the face is also a pretty clear conformation that Sukuna’s physical output isn’t fluctuating, unlike his CT.

Are you arguing based on Viz's translation? Yuka brought up that another translation says Sukuna experiences even more rejection from Megumi's body when he tried to harm his allies and then Kaiyo's tweet has another translator look at the raws which started up this discussion again, if Sukuna in the raws literally says his physical movement is hindered too (but not as much as CE output) then you're arguing against a brick wall.

On the movement part yes, but the discussion about CE output and CT output is unrelated to the translations, it's just how we should interpret the 2 statements:

1) The first statement was a general one meaning Sukuna's CE was fluctuating, the 2nd statement says the rejection becomes stronger specifically when he uses a CT, so his output is low anyways but it gets more lower when he activates a CT.

2) The first statement about CE output means CT output because in the 2nd statement Sukuna only mentioned CT output, so Sukuna's durability is still as high as he is at 15F, and his speed is the same as well.

Yes it does because the first statement can essentially be read as “my cursed technique’s cursed energy output fluctuates” since the fluctuation he was talking about was in reference to his CT. Which means that there’s no statement saying Sukuna’s movement was nerfed.

I trust the word of a Japanese guy who is an english translator, that's working with Crunchyroll too, more

 

[Arkenis]

Yuji and Maki would still end up scaling just to a lower degree. At most they scale to a slower Sukuna taking that it nerfed his movements as well.

 

[SunDaGamer]

 

[YukaSama4]

Yuji and Maki would still end up scaling just to a lower degree. At most they scale to a slower Sukuna taking that it nerfed his movements as well.

We aren't saying they won scale at all Maki will scale to 10% Sukuna, no one is debating that atm the discussion is about a serious 15F Sukuna, Mait says they scale to him, me and the others are disagreeing

 

[Maitreya12]

No you can't read it like that because it's a general statement, there is no reason to specify it, yes he noticed that after he hit Yuji with his CT, but he made a general statement, you can't read it as "CT output", CT output also drops when overall CE output gets lower so there's no reason to change the words there just to force Yuji and Maki into the scaling.

Nothing there says “general CE output.” Nowhere did Sukuna ever say the word “general” or “overall” in his first statement. You’re just presuppose that’s what it means when it doesn’t have to be the case at all. The fact that he noticed it after he used his CT on Yuji and the fact that he later specified it was his CT being reduced specifically, means you can in fact read it that way.

On this part, if the raws specifically say that his movements are affected but not as much as his CE output then your interpretation falls apart, so just as @Duedate8898 said we should ask the site translator to check it.

The raws never state that. That’s just being presupposed here. Sukuna also never states his physicals are being affected “not as much as his CT” that’s literally just headcanon on your part.

He did that because the rejection gets stronger, it's just a difference or interpretations imo and you can't really dismiss this interpretation, both interpretations are possible based on the chapter itself, we just need to compare it with other scenes and feats from the series to decide which one is more probable, that's for the CE output discussion, but for the movement part it's pretty easy we just need to ask the wiki translator to settle it

“When he’s attacking.” Megumi only strongly resists when Sukuna is attacking. Last time I checked, punching someone still counts as “attacking”, so the fact that Sukuna in that moment decided to use his CT on the ground just so he could punch Maki in the face right as he specifically mentions his CT output is being reduced, substantially proves that Sukuna’s physicals aren’t being affected while his CT is. So yes, we can actually dismiss this interpretation you’re giving due to the actions Sukuna engaged in over the course of the fight.

 

[Maitreya12]

Are you arguing based on Viz's translation? Yuka brought up that another translation says Sukuna experiences even more rejection from Megumi's body when he tried to harm his allies and then Kaiyo's tweet has another translator look at the raws which started up this discussion again, if Sukuna in the raws literally says his physical movement is hindered too (but not as much as CE output) then you're arguing against a brick wall.

Sukuna in the raws never states his physically movement is hindered, in fact he literally says “Physcial movement is FINE” in the statement above. There’s also no statement anywhere ever saying his “physical output is being affected less than his technique’s output.” No mention at all, that’s just once again headcanon on your part.

I trust the word of a Japanese guy who is an english translator, that's working with Crunchyroll too, more

I’m not disputing his translations, I’m arguing the interpretations he has over those translations. We both can have the correct words given to us on screen, but that doesn’t mean how we interpret those words is also inherently true. Especially given varying context's.

The fact that he says Sukuna is not referring to his CT in his first statement is an example of the translator not factoring the context of the scene since Sukuna would objectively have to be referring to his CT in that scene since that was what he noticed was fluctuating. Even if we take your interpretation to be true, the translator would have to say that both Sukuna’s general and cursed technique output were fluctuating, not that there was no mention of his cursed technique since that’s what the context of the scene was about.

 

[YukaSama4]

Nothing there says “general CE output.” Nowhere did Sukuna ever say the word “general” or “overall” in his first statement. You’re just presuppose that’s what it means when it doesn’t have to be the case at all. The fact that he noticed it after he used his CT on Yuji and the fact that he later specified it was his CT being reduced specifically, means you can in fact read it that way.

Strawman, it doesn't need to say general CE because CE output is general, idk why in every discussion you need to change the words and ask for things that are not needed, it says CE output is nerfed, not CT output is nerfed (which is a specific meaning that you cant prove.)

No I don't think you can, I say Sukuna noticed that after his using his CT which was supposed to kill Yuji immediately, he then said his CE output is getting lower, you're forcing your interpretation on the text and saying that Sukuna generalised it for no reason.

The raws never state that. That’s just being presupposed here. Sukuna also never states his physicals are being affected “not as much as his CT” that’s literally just headcanon on your part.

Did I say the raws say "his physicals are affected"? Stop strawmanning my posts, how tf is it a headcanon when all that I said was "Let's go with what Duedate suggested, let's ask the site translator" I haven't made any claim there and I only said if the raws say that then your interpretation falls so it depends on the translation so let's ask our translator.

“When he’s attacking.” Megumi only strongly resists when Sukuna is attacking. Last time I checked, punching someone still counts as “attacking”, so the fact that Sukuna in that moment decided to use his CT on the ground just so he could punch Maki in the face right as he specifically mentions his CT output is being reduced, substantially proves that Sukuna’s physicals aren’t being affected while his CT is. So yes, we can actually dismiss this interpretation you’re giving due to the actions Sukuna engaged in over the course of the fight

Again you are trying to dismiss an interpretation with an interpretation, the first statement was general and the 2nd statement was specifically saying the body strongly rejects him and drops CT output when he tries to hurt his allies, the statements are not the same but you are trying to equate them in order to force a state of "specific statement explains a general one" which is not the case here

 

[SunDaGamer]

Sukuna in the raws never states his physically movement is hindered, in fact he literally says “Physcial movement is FINE” in the statement above

Are you arguing based on Viz's translation? Yuka brought up that another translation and then Kaiyo's tweet has another translator look at the raws which started up this discussion again

We're arguing now that another translation of the raws has been done of a chapter infamous for it's varying translations between fan scanlations and viz

The fact that he says Sukuna is not referring to his CT in his first statement is an example of the translator not factoring the context of the scene since Sukuna would objectively have to be referring to his CT in that scene since that was what he noticed was fluctuating. Even if we take your interpretation to be true, the translator would have to say that both Sukuna’s general and cursed technique output were fluctuating, not that there was no mention of his cursed technique since that’s what the context of the scene was about.

I'd say the translator is more than aware that Gege uses different terms for CE output and the term Sukuna uses specifically for the output of his CT

The first time he says “Output is less than 10%” he refers general CE and NOT CT that specific time. Later on he specifics that his CT is even lower than the general output But the very first time, it makes no mention of CT and just normal CE Output

You also seem to be using Viz's translation solely which omits Sukuna's mention of rejection being stronger when he uses his CT

 

[YukaSama4]

In fact as far as I'm aware, it's the only time in the manga that mentions something called "CT output", whenever the manga talks about output it gives a general statement (CE output).

You also seem to be using Viz's translation solely which omits Sukuna's mention of rejection being stronger when he uses his CT

I got the rejection part from the translation that @Dr._whiteee brought a while ago of the raws.
Anyways I think the CE/CT output part depends on interpretations, while the movements part depends on the translation which what we should ask the translator about

 

[YukaSama4]

Did anyone ask in the translations thread? Because I don't have the link so if anyone asked for a translation it will be appreciated if he linked the post here

 

[Maitreya12]

We're arguing now that another translation of the raws has been done of a chapter infamous for it's varying translations between fan scanlations and viz

I'd say the translator is more than aware that Gege uses different terms for CE output and the term Sukuna uses specifically for the output of his CT

Again you’re just ignoring the things I’ve said and now arguing with a ghost. I never disputed the terms here, please reread my post to understand that fact. I clearly said the interpretation of those words by the translator can be falliable and up for mistake just like the rest of people.

You also seem to be using Viz's translation solely which omits Sukuna's mention of rejection being stronger when he uses his CT

What does this have to do with anything? When did I say that Sukuna’s rejection becomes stronger “when Sukuna uses his CT.” Megumi’s resistance becomes stronger when Sukuna is “attacking his friends” which a Physcial punch classified as “attacking.”

 

[Maitreya12]

Strawman, it doesn't need to say general CE because CE output is general, idk why in every discussion you need to change the words and ask for things that are not needed, it says CE output is nerfed, not CT output is nerfed (which is a specific meaning that you cant prove.)

No I don't think you can, I say Sukuna noticed that after his using his CT which was supposed to kill Yuji immediately, he then said his CE output is getting lower, you're forcing your interpretation on the text and saying that Sukuna generalised it for no reason.

Strawman? Strawman what, what did I strawman. More than that, what words did I “change” like you claim. That’s more of a strawman if anything. All I said was that the context of the scene shows Sukuna is referring to his cursed technique in that instance. I didn’t “change” any words around, all I did was factor in the context of the scene in which Sukuna makes his first statement and then clarified my position with Sukuna’s followup statements.

The fact that you’re saying “no you can’t read it that way” means you’re the one forcing your interpretation on the text by actively saying it “can’t” be that way. Sukuna doesn’t need to specify his CT in the first scene because the context of the scene is referring to his CT’s output being reduced since that was the thing he was attacking Yuji with and noticed was off.

Did I say the raws say "his physicals are affected"? Stop strawmanning my posts, how tf is it a headcanon when all that I said was "Let's go with what Duedate suggested, let's ask the site translator" I haven't made any claim there and I only said if the raws say that then your interpretation falls so it depends on the translation so let's ask our translator.

Sure and if it says “only the CT are nerfed” then your whole premise falls apart. Of course it all depends on what the raws say, we can ask our translators if you’d like but the issue doesn’t seem to be the words here, it’s the interpretation of said words.

Again you are trying to dismiss an interpretation with an interpretation, the first statement was general and the 2nd statement was specifically saying the body strongly rejects him and drops CT output when he tries to hurt his allies, the statements are not the same but you are trying to equate them in order to force a state of "specific statement explains a general one" which is not the case here

Yes I’m showing how your interpretation is false with the scenes on the page. Interpretations all aren’t valid nor are they created equal, the reason your interpretation can be dismissed is because it doesn’t make sense in the context of the statements being made and the actions being performed by Sukuna, something I pointed out in the post you’re responding to which you conveniently try to ignore so that you’re able to dismiss the argument being presented before you.

Like this one:

“When he’s attacking.” Megumi only strongly resists when Sukuna is attacking. Last time I checked, punching someone still counts as “attacking”, so the fact that Sukuna in that moment decided to use his CT on the ground just so he could punch Maki in the face right as he specifically mentions his CT output is being reduced, substantially proves that Sukuna’s physicals aren’t being affected while his CT is. So yes, we can actually dismiss this interpretation you’re giving due to the actions Sukuna engaged in over the course of the fight

 

[SunDaGamer]

Again you’re just ignoring the things I’ve said and now arguing with a ghost. I never disputed the terms here, please reread my post to understand that fact. I clearly said the interpretation of those words by the translator can be falliable and up for mistake just like the rest of people.

I'm arguing from the fact that CE output is a general term, if Sukuna is specifying only his CT's output is being nerfed in the first page then it makes no sense for him to specify CT output the next time, Gege would've just had Sukuna say "my CT output was declining" the first time, he also notes that it's fluctuating in the present while he isn't attacking anyone. Furthermore, if Sukuna's movement being hindered like Kaiyo's translation says is accurate then the fact that Megumi was affecting more than Sukuna's CT output already puts into question why CE output, a general term, would refer specifically to CT output.

 

[Maitreya12]

I'm arguing from the fact that CE output is a general term, if Sukuna is specifying only his CT's output is being nerfed in the first page then it makes no sense for him to specify CT output the next time, Gege would've just had Sukuna say "my CT output was declining" the first time, he also notes that it's fluctuating in the present while he isn't attacking anyone. Furthermore, if Sukuna's movement being hindered like Kaiyo's translation says is accurate then the fact that Megumi was affecting more than Sukuna's CT output already puts into question why CE output, a general term, would refer specifically to CT output.

Actually you’ve got it backwards.

It makes sense that Sukuna didn’t mention specifically his CT output being reduced the first time because the context of the scene itself gives clarification that the thing Sukuna noticed was fluctuating, was his cursed technique. The context makes the statement for us that Sukuna’s CT output was declining, which is the “CE output” he was referring to since cursed techniques are powered by cursed energy. Sukuna then later clarifying that his CT output was the thing being reduced in his second statement further cements that notion for us, it serves as clarification for the first statement.

Conversely so, it does not make sense for Sukuna to specifically say his CT output was being reduced in his second statement since your argument is that “CE is a general term”, thereby making it redundant and non-sensical for Sukuna to specifically mention his CT in that statement rather than just saying “my CE output was reduced” like in the first statement.

Let alone the fact that Sukuna literally decides to use his CT on the ground so he could physically punch Maki in the face despite that action not making any sense whatsoever if CE output is being used as a all generalized term. (Also if you’re using CE output as a generalized term then you can’t say his output for his techniques are being dropped more than his overall Physcial output since that‘s not consistent with what you’re saying.)

 

[SunDaGamer]

Conversely so, it does not make sense for Sukuna to specifically say his CT output was being reduced in his second statement since your argument is that “CE is a general term”, thereby making it redundant and non-sensical for Sukuna to specifically mention his CT in that statement rather than just saying “my CE output was reduced” like in the first statement.

No? With my argument, the context for Sukuna mentioning his CT output is because he chooses to target something other than Maki or Yuji by using a different application of Cleave.

Let alone the fact that Sukuna literally decides to use his CT on the ground so he could physically punch Maki in the face despite that action not making any sense whatsoever if CE output is being used as a all generalized term.

He applied his CT to the ground to remove Maki and Yuji's footing to create a big opening, you keep looking at that scene through an AP lense.

I got some of the translations mixed up I'll look through Kaiyo's video to see what was going on regarding Megumi dropping Sukuna's CE output for his CT even further than his CE output for his regular attacks.

It makes sense that Sukuna didn’t mention specifically his CT output being reduced the first time because the context of the scene itself gives clarification that the thing Sukuna noticed was fluctuating, was his cursed technique. The context makes the statement for us that Sukuna’s CT output was declining, which is the “CE output” he was referring to since cursed techniques are powered by cursed energy. Sukuna then later clarifying that his CT output was the thing being reduced in his second statement further cements that notion for us, it serves as clarification for the first statement.

If Sukuna notices his movement was hindered as he's checking himself out (as Kaiyo says) coupled with Sukuna notcing his CE output fluctuating in the present when he isn't attacking anyone then the context of the scene is that Sukuna realises Megumi's body is fighting back against him (which isn't limited to just limiting his CT's output) after seeing his output way lower than it should be from Yuji surviving the dismantle rush.

 

[Maitreya12]

No? With my argument, the context for Sukuna mentioning his CT output is because he chooses to target something other than Maki or Yuji by using a different application of Cleave.

Yeah and the reason why he’s deciding to do that in the first place is because his CT output is being reduced. But there’s no need or reason for him to say his CT output is being reduced instead of just his overall CE output. That’s just redundant and serves no purpose but it’s not redundant for my position and it does serve a purpose as clarification for Sukuna’s first statement.

He applied his CT to the ground to remove Maki and Yuji's footing to create a big opening, you keep looking at that scene through an AP lense.

Because Sukuna is literally talking about AP in that scene, what? Why is he “trying to create an opening” with his CT instead of just attacking with his CT, you saw how many slashes he could do to the ground, but the fact that he decided to do all those slashes towards the ground just so that he could physically punch Maki in the face shows that only his technique’s output is being reduced and not his physicals.

Like, my dude, Sukuna literally says “Nice!” To Maki as a compliment for taking his punch so well. Why would Sukuna be complimenting Maki if she’s supposedly taking “weakened” punches from him? Again, that doesn’t make any sense.

I got some of the translations mixed up I'll look through Kaiyo's video to see what was going on regarding Megumi dropping Sukuna's CE output for his CT even further than his CE output for his regular attacks.

Sukuna literally never states this at all. This would be an example of headcanon being used in order to justify your interpretations, which makes it faulty. This wouldn’t even make sense if ce output is a general statement since how could Megumi drop Sukuna’s CT output more than his regular CE output if they’re both the same.

 

[SunDaGamer]

Sukuna literally never states this at all. This would be an example of headcanon being used in order to justify your interpretations, which makes it faulty. This wouldn’t even make sense if ce output is a general statement since how could Megumi drop Sukuna’s CT output more than his regular CE output if they’re both the same.

Saying it's headcanon isn't a good counterargument when I'm talking about the nuances of the raws that may have been lost in translation (especially since Kaiyo's tweets call out both the fan scanlations and viz's translation).
There's no mechanical issue with it either, it would simply be Megumi limiting the flow of CE being poured into Sukuna's CT when he activates it even further than Sukuna's regular flow of CE in his body.

 

[Maitreya12]

Saying it's headcanon isn't a good counterargument when I'm talking about the nuances of the raws that may have been lost in translation (especially since Kaiyo's tweets call out both the fan scanlations and viz's translation).
There's no mechanical issue with it either, it would simply be Megumi limiting the flow of CE being poured into Sukuna's CT when he activates it even further than Sukuna's regular flow of CE in his body.

Saying it’s headcanon is a fine argument if the position you’re suggesting hasn’t been stated, implied, shown, or demonstrated in the series. The “nuance” you’re looking for could just be justification for your interpretation, and not something grounded within the scene in question. Now where does Sukuna say his “CT output is being reduced more than my general CE output” or anything from that nature. It is purely a speculation you made in order to justify the interpretation you have come up with.

- Sukuna’s overall CE output is being nerfed, but he’s complimenting others for taking his ‘weakened’ punches? That doesn’t make sense.

- Sukuna says “when he attacks” Megumi’s able to drop the CE output of his CT by a big amount, but he’s not able to do that to Sukuna’s for his Physcial attacks? Even though he’s already able to nerf Sukuna’s physical abilities and going by your interpretation, reducing Sukuna’s CT output means reducing his Physcial output as well. Again that doesn’t make sense. These two arguments can’t coexist with one another.

The fundamental problem with your interpretation vs mine is that your premise creates problems and holes from the character’s actions while mind does not.

Megumi only being able to reduce Sukuna’s CT output rather than overall Physcial abilities causes no issues with Sukuna’s statements or actions over the course of his fight, while yours cause multiple.

 

[SunDaGamer]

- Sukuna’s overall CE output is being nerfed, but he’s complimenting others for taking his ‘weakened’ punches? That doesn’t make sense.

This is the same dude who called Jogo strong after humiliating him in a fight while calling Gojo an ordinary guy even though Gojo was actually pressing him and didn't give a damn about any of Yuji's feats against him while praising Maki.

Now where does Sukuna say his “CT output is being reduced more than my general CE output” or anything from that nature. It is purely a speculation you made in order to justify the interpretation you have come up with.

Did you read anything I said about translations? That was from Kaiyo's tweet where he consulted a translator and called out both TCB and Viz's translations for their inaccuracies, I'm gonna go through the video to see everything that was said tho.

- Sukuna says “when he attacks” Megumi’s able to drop the CE output of his CT by a big amount, but he’s not able to do that to Sukuna’s for his Physcial attacks? Even though he’s already able to nerf Sukuna’s physical abilities and going by your interpretation, reducing Sukuna’s CT output means reducing his Physcial output as well. Again that doesn’t make sense. These two arguments can’t coexist with one another.

My interpretation is that Sukuna's CE output is fluctuating and then that fluctuation becomes a nerf (hence stronger rejection) when he attacks Yuji or Maki. I'll have to verify Kaiyo's translation saying his CT was hampered even more than his physicals.

 

[Arkenis]

I am thinking this should be Limited power bestowal.

Like Nanami ratio tech or Sukuna's spider web, they can extend their ct onto other material and send the ct throughout it.

 

[Arkenis]

The fundamental problem with your interpretation vs mine is that your premise creates problems and holes from the character’s actions while mind does not.

Megumi only being able to reduce Sukuna’s CT output rather than overall Physcial abilities causes no issues with Sukuna’s statements or actions over the course of his fight, while yours cause multiple

May just be your interpretation, but what statements cause issues?

 

[Maitreya12]

This is the same dude who called Jogo strong after humiliating him in a fight while calling Gojo an ordinary guy even though Gojo was actually pressing him and didn't give a damn about any of Yuji's feats against him while praising Maki.

I think that’s more of a you “not understanding Sukuna” problem if you think him shit talking his opponents but still acknowledging they’re strong is some sort of inconsistency.

Notice how he calls Jogo strong right as he’s watching him die alone together in a room by the way but shit talks Gojo in the public. (He literally acknowledge Gojo being strong in his convo with Jogo too).

Did you read anything I said about translations? That was from Kaiyo's tweet where he consulted a translator and called out both TCB and Viz's translations for their inaccuracies, I'm gonna go through the video to see everything that was said tho.

Yes, have you read anything I said about interpretations? Kaiyo’s tweet makes the problem of presupposing his interpretations of the words as fact without looking at the context of the scene. Literally just read what he says:

The first time he says “Output is less than 10%” he refers general CE and NOT CT that specific time. Later on he specifics that his CT is even lower than the general output But the very first time, it makes no mention of CT and just normal CE Output

He’s literally saying Sukuna’s body is performing at less than 10% but it’s “not that bad” from Sukuna’s point of view and then goes on to say Sukuna’s CT is at an even lower percentage?? Even though Sukuna never says that. And he says that he makes no mention of CT, just CE in this statement, completely forgetting however the fact that the whole scene is in reference to Sukuna’s CT output dropping in the first place. Which can literally be seen here:

See? Notice how Sukuna only says CE here and not CT, but we know he’s referring to CT in this scene because he’s talking about how Yuji is surviving his CT to begin with. Knowing the correct words doesn’t equate with having the correct interpretation, which is clearly the issue with Kaiyo’s tweet.

My interpretation is that Sukuna's CE output is fluctuating and then that fluctuation becomes a nerf (hence stronger rejection) when he attacks Yuji or Maki. I'll have to verify Kaiyo's translation saying his CT was hampered even more than his physicals.

This interpretation has multiple flaws, but mainly in that these two arguments cannot coexist together. You can’t say CT was hampered even more than his physicals (which is what Kaiyo said) if you’re using CE output as a generalized term (which is what you said) since they’d both be hampered together under this interpretation.

These two arguments just aren’t consistent with one another nor are they consistent with what Sukuna says for that matter since he directly specifies only his CT’s output gets reduced “when he attacks”, but not the physical punches he does.

 

[YukaSama4]

I am thinking this should be Limited power bestowal.

Like Nanami ratio tech or Sukuna's spider web, they can extend their ct onto other material and send the ct throughout it.

I was thinking about extension techniques lately and what confused me is that I remember there is a panel that says extension techniques are born from using lapse and reversal, however Megumi doesn't use reversal but he has an extension, Sukuna and Nanami too didn't use reversal CT, but maybe the first one was put there just as an example of Extension CTs

 

[Maitreya12]

May just be your interpretation, but what statements cause issues?

The premise is stating that Sukuna’s physical movements are at below 10% output and his techniques are at an even lower output than that. And yet despite that, Sukuna is gassing Maki up, talking about how strong she is and praises her for how well she can take a punch. But these should be “weak” punches according to the translations, so Sukuna shouldn’t be praising Maki as he is for taking such a ‘weak’ blow.

The premise is stating that the term “CE output” is a generalized term being used which applies to both Sukuna’s physical output and his CT’s output, but yet at the same time is also saying that Sukuna’s CT output is being reduced more than his physical output even though his “overall CE output” is being reduced. This doesn’t make sense since Megumi should be reducing both their physical and CT output simultaneously if the premise is to be taken as true. One output shouldn’t be being reduced to a higher degree than the other nor is that something that is even ever stated.

The two premises aren’t consistent with one another and aren’t consistent with the character’s own statements and actions either.

If “CE output” is a generalized term like is claimed, then why is Sukuna bothering to mention and specify his cursed technique’s output being reduced instead of just saying “cursed energy output” if they are to inherently mean the same? It’s needless and redundant to specify his CT output being reduced if both mean the same. Why is Sukuna using his CT on the ground of all things just so he can physically punch someone.

It just creates many inconsistent moments throughout the scene and makes things needlessly complicated when it doesn’t have to be.

 

[SunDaGamer]

You can’t say CT was hampered even more than his physicals (which is what Kaiyo said) if you’re using CE output as a generalized term (which is what you said) since they’d both be hampered together under this interpretation.

That's not even what my argument was, my argument is Sukuna says his CE Output (in general as in not specifically his CT) is fluctuating when he's checking up on himself. CE starts from a sorcerer's gut and flows to the rest of the body which amps physicals, activating a CT then requires them to pour CE into their CT that is engraved onto them, those are 2 mechanisms I don't see how further nerfing pouring CE into an engraved CT is contradictory.

 

[Arkenis]

The premise is stating that Sukuna’s physical movements are at below 10% output and his techniques are at an even lower output than that. And yet despite that, Sukuna is gassing Maki up, talking about how strong she is and praises her for how well she can take a punch. But these should be “weak” punches according to the translations, so Sukuna shouldn’t be praising Maki as he is for taking such a ‘weak’ blow.

I mean he gives compliments to Mahoraga yet he thinks Maho is 3f level. This is pretty similar to that, he's praising those weak because he's surprised by their level of power compared to his power.

The premise is stating that the term “CE output” is a generalized term being used which applies to both Sukuna’s physical output and his CT’s output, but yet at the same time is also saying that Sukuna’s CT output is being reduced more than his physical output even though his “overall CE output” is being reduced. This doesn’t make sense since Megumi should be reducing both their physical and CT output simultaneously if the premise is to be taken as true. One output shouldn’t be being reduced to a higher degree than the other nor is that something that is even ever stated.

The reason one would be reduced more is because it's stronger. Dismantle and cleave are slashing attacks, they are simply superior to his punches or kicks.

If “CE output” is a generalized term like is claimed, then why is Sukuna bothering to mention and specify his cursed technique’s output being reduced instead of just saying “cursed energy output” if they are to inherently mean the same? It’s needless and redundant to specify his CT output being reduced if both mean the same. Why is Sukuna using his CT on the ground of all things just so he can physically punch someone.

Because that's two different ways of outputting ce? Physical output and CT output are different. And he used it on the ground to catch em off guard by destroying their foothold which is what happened. You can look at Yuta vs Ryu's battle as an understanding for how physical output and ct output are different, Yuta using Ryu's ct can output a higher amount of ce than his normal punches.


I would like to show ya these two panels as I believe it shows it as his overall ce output rather than just ct output alone. Fighting Yuji, he's surprised by Yuji's sudden gain in strength, but in reality Sukuna is the one who's gotten weaker from Megumi's influence. And then him saying he'd need to polish the form up as well, could be wrong but it would imply the form overall is just weaker due to Megumi not just his ct output.

 

[Maitreya12]

That's not even what my argument was, my argument is Sukuna says his CE Output (in general as in not specifically his CT) is fluctuating when he's checking up on himself. CE starts from a sorcerer's gut and flows to the rest of the body which amps physicals, activating a CT then requires them to pour CE into their CT that is engraved onto them, those are 2 mechanisms I don't see how further nerfing pouring CE into an engraved CT is contradictory.

Ok stop:

I'm arguing from the fact that CE output is a general term

That’s literally what your argument was about. It’s literally what you said you were arguing from.

You can’t say things like this:

My interpretation is that Sukuna's CE output is fluctuating and then that fluctuation becomes a nerf (hence stronger rejection) when he attacks Yuji or Maki.

While also saying his CT output is being reduced more than his overall output because the first statement when Sukuna says his CE output is fluctuating, is in reference to when he’s using his CT to attack Yuji:

So since Sukuna is making the “general CE output is low” statement as his explanation for why his CT isn’t being as effective on Yuji, this has to mean his physicals are being reduced alongside his CT since you’re taking this first statement by Sukuna as a “general” statement to mean his overall CE output. One can’t be being reduced more than the other in this statement, which is a contradiction.

So either the positions you’re taking with what your translator says is wrong and his physicals and CT are both reduced at once, or “CE output” isn’t being used as a general term here and instead in reference to just his Technique’s output, something he specified moments later.

 

[YukaSama4]

I mean we still haven't touched that part where 15F Sukuna reacted to a serious Gojo and blocked him, or when prime Toji was said to be relative to 3F Sukuna in speed lol

 

[Arkenis]

I mean we still haven't touched that part where 15F Sukuna reacted to a serious Gojo and blocked him, or when prime Toji was said to be relative to 3F Sukuna in speed lol

The 15f thing isn't really crazy, it isn't like Gojo gained some wild speed amp. Whats wrong with Toji scaling to 3f sukuna? It isn't like that's Toji's max speed nor that Megumi's just correct on that either.