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Logan Paul Profile Deletion (Potentially the WWE-verse with it)

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Strongly disagree with the removal of Logan Paul’s profile. To put into perspective, he is part of a long-term storyline. He entered the 2023 Royal Rumble (January), eliminated Seth Rollins, then interested in Elimination Chamber (February), preformed a segment with him, twice, then faced him, and lost at Wrestlemania (April). That isn’t just something arbitrary, nor can something sporadically as a one-off thing.

This is common for WWE as of recent, they have entire story recaps, in this example, a faction called The Bloodline, that accumulates two hours. Mind you, each episode of Raw is 3 hours, Smackdown is two, and PPV’s fall in the 3-5 hour mark. They don’t take up all of of this, Wrestlers only have a set amount of time to be on screen, so for two hours of footage to be accumulated over the course of three years, pretty objectively refutes the notion these aren’t story based characters.
 
Milly_Rocking_Bandit said:
Strongly disagree with the removal of Logan Paul’s profile. To put into perspective, he is part of a long-term storyline. He entered the 2023 Royal Rumble (January), eliminated Seth Rollins, then interested in Elimination Chamber (February), preformed a segment with him, twice, then faced him, and lost at Wrestlemania (April). That isn’t just something arbitrary, nor can something sporadically as a one-off thing.

This is common for WWE as of recent, they have entire story recaps, in this example, a faction called The Bloodline, that accumulates two hours. Mind you, each episode of Raw is 3 hours, Smackdown is two, and PPV’s fall in the 3-5 hour mark. They don’t take up all of of this, Wrestlers only have a set amount of time to be on screen, so for two hours of footage to be accumulated over the course of three years, pretty objectively refutes the notion these aren’t story based characters.
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As an outsider (I've just heard hours of others fawning over WWE; I haven't watched it myself), it's hard to evaluate how important this is.

Just saying "there were fights totaling 2 hours of footage" doesn't make me feel confident that there's a story. And since I don't know the verse, I can't even tell how much of an anomaly that is.

For other wrestlers, I've heard stories of long-standing rivalries, factions, plans, betrayals, esoteric abilities and the like. Characters so big that you can't coherently talk about the history of WWE without talking about them. Hearing about something like that for Logan would be a lot more convincing, but frankly I wouldn't expect that to come from him for a while, although I do think it'd eventually happen with him signing a multi-year contract. But right now I'm just neutral on him, leaning towards what the knowledgeable members say.
 
Agnaa said:
Just saying "there were fights totaling 2 hours of footage" doesn't make me feel confident that there's a story. And since I don't know the verse, I can't even tell how much of an anomaly that is.
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You’re misinterpreting what I said. I didn’t say “there were fights totaling 2 hours”, what I said was a story recap that lasted two hours. It’s not just fights, it’s talking segments, “war of words” as they usually put it, that build tension up to PPV events. The Bloodline, for instance, is a (heel) familial faction composed of Roman Reigns, and his cousins Jimmy and Jey Uso, Solo Sikoa, and manager Paul Heyman, and it started with Roman and Jey feuding to be the one who serves as head as the family, until Jey eventually submits to his reign (lol). Understand these aren’t just “mere fights”, Hell in a Cell 2020 explicitly has Roman break down in tears about what he’s doing to his family for the sake of leading all of them (even funnier when the stipulations for this match is called “I Quit”).

There are many, many more examples, most prominent being the Streak vs Career match of HBK vs the Undertaker, Daniel Bryan’s rise against the villainous faction of the Authority from 2013-2014 and its climax at Wrestlemania XXX, and most ironically, Kofi Kingston’s match against Daniel Bryan at Wrestlemania XXXV (5 years later), in which the roles were reversed, and he famously called Kofi a “B+ player”, which is the exact same insult used against Bryan when he was rising to the top.

These are, very much, real stories, and nothing proves this point more than the promos that are cut.
 
Here are the Long Term year long Storytelling Milly is talking about

Daniel Bryan storyline 2011-2016


Bloodline story 2020-Present


Undertaker vs Shawn Michaels 1995 - 2011


Undertaker and Kane Saga - 1999 - 2020 (Until Retirement)
 
Like, not to draw in emotion here, but there’s clearly more than just fights here. Wrestlemania XXXIII, Seth Rollins Vs Triple H, the student outgrowing the master. Wrestlemania XXX, Daniel Bryan vs Triple H, the underdog set to fail against all odds, despite the people behind him. Payback 2014, The Shield vs Evolution, the new generation vs the old generation. There are, again, so much more (I am admittedly cherry-picking the favorite storylines).

Hell, Royal Rumble 2022 main evented Roman Reigns and Seth Rollins (former members of the Shield, keep in mind), where Rollins, in an attempt to mentally deter Reigns, not only comes out in the clothing they used to wear as a faction, but the same music. Listen to the commentary, that isn’t just a fight for a fight, nor is there even a good guy in this fight, both men are heels (villains), and yet there’s so much emotion poured into it. I cannot stress enough that these aren’t random fights, they’re narratives - varying in quality, but narratives all the same.
 
I think with the arguments RandomGuy posted she has convinced me that the verse is leagues superior with storyline lasting from Decades and events from 1970s and 60s also gets brought up such as Roman's title current reign and Legacy of belts and their linage of early champions.
So I'm convinced that the verse should stay.
 
On the one hand I feel sorry for the members who have put down a lot of work into this verse, and I consider it harmless on a social level.

On the other hand I agree with Bambu about that we should only feature purely fictional characters, not ones that blend reality and fiction.
 
What's the bar for blending reality and fiction?

Najimi Ajimu talks about the world being a manga, points out a coloured panel, talks about how long it was serialised for, references winners of character polls, talks about how an episode of the anime had to be newly written because the adaptation screwed up and adapted the manga too quickly....
 
That is a purely fictional character breaking the 4th wall though, not a real person slipping in and out of character in a verse without any 4th wall to start with.
 
I think for WWE, the 4th wall is there when they present publicly in that context; i.e. in specifically recorded promos, walking out onto the ring and being in the ring itself, and anything along those lines.

Especially nowadays, they're not excepted to act the same way when at the supermarket.
 
Well, it isn't like I feel strongly about this verse in particular. I am mainly just worried about that it sets a bad precedent.
 
Antvasima said:
That is a purely fictional character breaking the 4th wall though, not a real person slipping in and out of character in a verse without any 4th wall to start with.
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The fourth wall’s existence in WWE is one that is there. Often pointing out events outside the ring such as this one time when Cena roasted Rollin’s for not being good at promos or how triple H made fun of Jeff Hardy for not being able to pass the real world companies protocalls for health
 
I think the criteria I outlined earlier
Agnaa said:
The rule against stage personas seems intended to disallow profiles that are for characters performed by the real-life equivalent of that character, and who either:
  1. Have little to no impact on the actual story of something with one (guest features on TV shows).
  2. Exist in a partially-fictionalised presentation (educational TV shows and YouTube videos, certain music videos).
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Set a fine precedent on what to allow.
 
Antvasima said:
What do other staff members here think about Agnaa's suggestions?
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They aren't bad, but I have not been shy about the fact that I'm just not comfortable maintaining pages for real world people, and I think the WWE profiles dip well past any line I could reasonably draw for real world people. I've spoken (perhaps too much) about my distinctions, I'd rather we maintain a stricter grip on what real-world profiles we allow and what we do not. So I still disagree.
 
Mr._Bambu said:
They aren't bad, but I have not been shy about the fact that I'm just not comfortable maintaining pages for real world people, and I think the WWE profiles dip well past any line I could reasonably draw for real world people. I've spoken (perhaps too much) about my distinctions, I'd rather we maintain a stricter grip on what real-world profiles we allow and what we do not. So I still disagree.
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What exactly is the line you draw at what is a "real world people" and a "character"?
 
omegabronic said:
What exactly is the line you draw at what is a "real world people" and a "character"?
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Obviously everyone is permitted to disagree, but I feel I've discussed this bit at length over the course of this thread. My opinions here have offended a great deal of folks who are rather passionate about the matter, so I'm opting to stop replying as much, so if you would like to glean my beliefs, I encourage you to review my posts over the past couple pages.

My vote is given, ping me if y'all need me.
 
TheMassivlyUnkn0wn said:
I’m not trying to defend making profiles for deadass real people like people where there’s no argument that “they’re a stage persona”

but we literally have profiles for real world animals and it’s probably one of the most used verses on the forums lmao
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He's kind of got a point, Real World Animal's stray's significantly further from the purpose of this wiki than WWE ever would
 
But yeah I feel like we should just reword the stage persona rule to “if they have feats and are clearly fictionalized then it’s fine”
Best of both worlds since it allows our long awaited YouTuber profiles, and keeps WWE
 
DemonicDude said:
In Bambu's defense, Animals can't sue you. However, Real rich and powerful people "which are the topic of this thread" they can.
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So could Nintendo for us having Mario. That's objectively just irrelevant, especially considering we may likely fall under fair use anyways. It's more so to do with the reason this wiki exists and it's purpose; IRL Animal's are much further from the purpose of "Indexing Fictional Franchises" than WWE, which can easily be argued to fit in as being a Fictional Franchise.
 
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