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Minor justification cut for King, and Kaifu revision.

Damage3245 said:
Law probably teleported then all to safety in the opening bought by Zoro blocking the attack.
Click to expand...
That would explain how he escaped even though none of the Supernovas bothered to run out of the way for some reason.

But IMO Zoro blocking it even temporarily still means his Buso AP/durability should be comparable to the durability of the other 4 since it was portrayed in story that the other 4 were apparently unable to block it (Luffy was in base).
 
Eseseso said:
That would explain how he escaped even though none of the Supernovas bothered to run out of the way for some reason.

But IMO Zoro blocking it even temporarily still means his Buso AP/durability should be comparable to the durability of the other 4 since it was portrayed in story that the other 4 were apparently unable to block it (Luffy was in base).
Click to expand...
yeah no zoros ap isnt above emperors, dura ehhhh
 
Neutral on the rest of the Kaifu stuff for now.

A simple explanation for why Zoro and Killer could deflect whereas Gear 5 Luffy was cut by it is the fact that they used weapons to do so. If they tried to deflect it using their bare hands, then they too would have been sliced like Luffy or worse.
 
Damage3245 said:
Neutral on the rest of the Kaifu stuff for now.

A simple explanation for why Zoro and Killer could deflect whereas Gear 5 Luffy was cut by it is the fact that they used weapons to do so. If they tried to deflect it using their bare hands, then they too would have been sliced like Luffy or worse.
Click to expand...
I mean, when Sad Drunk Kaido used it on Base Post-Hao Luffy, it didn't cut him and instead seemed to do kinetic damage to his head, but I see your point.

It still one-shot a Scabbard, and the Scabbards took casual blows from Dragon Kaido (like Kawamatsu enduring a dragon swipe), and made the likes of Law and Killer himself (who both took hits from BM) dodge.

I just think there's a lot more putting it at God Tier than Scabbard tier.
 
again it wouldve cut anybode who doesnt have scales or use haki or weapons, thats how cutting attacks are portrayed

and zoro isnt above fricking emperors
 
Sus said:
i dont mind killer scaling to zoro but can you not put him above emperors
Click to expand...
He isn't above Emperors, just like how Marco, King, and Yamato all scale to the same value as the Emperor's but are still clearly below them.

Fireld said:
Ain't this already used?
Click to expand...
It is, but it is currently only used to put Killer's AP at above Scabbard level (Aka, "A-5").

But it basically one-shot someone who withstood Kaido's casual striking strength.
 
Eseseso said:
2A. As we can see in this compilation of panels (collected by @Fireld, kudos to him), the Kaifu and Tatsumaki Kaifu made the likes of Law (who took hits from Big Mom and a Thunder Bagua from Kaido, although the latter did notably hurt him), Killer himself (who took lightning attacks from Big Mom and was fine), Gear 4th Post-Udon Luffy (who tanked Kaido's Bolo Breath with zero issue), and even Gear 5 Luffy dodge them.
Click to expand...
This isn't a valid reason. It is a cutting attack. They are normal humans and Kaifu isn't vastly weaker than them, so obviously they would dodge and not just stand there and take it. They are in a war against 2 Yonkou and a really formidable crew. They wouldn't want to take unnecessary damage just because it wouldn't damage them much.
Eseseso said:
2B. His Tatsumaki Kaifu drew blood from Gear 5 Luffy. Now, Gear 5th Luffy's durability is obviously well above Killer and Rooftop Buso Zoro's AP, but keep in mind that G5 Luffy was also notably hurt by Kaido's Bolo Breath, which his much weaker Post-Udon Gear 4th easily tanked with no damage. Long story short, his durability is weird.
Click to expand...
Kaido outright stated that Luffy is still susceptible to cutting attacks.

Luffy got burned, he wasn't hurt by the AP. Gear 4 Luffy was likely not burned because he is coated in haki, which Gear 5 is not.
 
Last edited:
Eseseso said:
Bump on 2nd proposal
Click to expand...
Kachon123 said:
This isn't a valid reason. It is a cutting attack. They are normal humans and Kaifu isn't vastly weaker than them, so obviously they would doge and not just stand there and take it. They are in a way against 2 Yonkou and a really formidable crew. They wouldn't want to take unnecessary damage just because it wouldn't damage them much.

Kaido outright stated that Luffy is still susceptible to cutting attacks.

Luffy got burned, he wasn't hurt by the AP. Gear 4 Luffy was likely not burned because he is coated in haki, which Gear 5 is not.
Click to expand...
Do you have any response?
 
Eminiteable said:
The demolition gust is multiple slashes.
Click to expand...
Still, just one of them pushed back and hurt Post-Hao Advancement Base Luffy.

It's not like each one is 1/1000th of Kaido's power.

Big mom used Tenmai Tenjin on multiple people at once, yet we still scale Zoro to her AP for taking a part of that attack.
Kachon123 said:
Yes. A fodder with a sword stabbed Marco, who's durability scales around Kizaru.
Click to expand...
Marco is a unique case cuz of his flames.
 
Fireld said:
Maybe he thinks Marco's made of fire like Ace despite there being statements that Marco's just covered in flames
Click to expand...
Marco's flames are weird.

Sometimes they're solid, other times they act like Logia fire and Marco shrugs off fodder stabbing him.
 
Either way, the Kaifu should each still be relatively comparable to Zoan Kaido's own AP.
 
Eminiteable said:
Scale them via this then, just not the dodge justification or them cutting gear 5th.
Click to expand...
OK, so do you think this is enough to scale them to the A-6/God Tier value?

I just use A-6 since back before Wano was over that was what KT used in his sandbox so it stuck with me.
 
Kachon123 said:
I don't think that's a good justification, as he was mid-air.
Click to expand...


Starting at 15:40, it still hurt him.

And IMO the fact that Killer, who took 2 hits from Big Mom and was fine, noped out of the way of the Kaifu shows that they're at least individually comparable to some extent to Kaido's normal AP.
 
Eminiteable said:
Good point, pushing him back like that isn't valid but if it hurt him to do so then I guess that seems fine.
Click to expand...
Yeah, I wasn't talking mainly about pushing him it back, I meant to focus more on the fact that just one Kaifu still caused him pain without cutting him.
 
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