Ben aliens and ben himself become basically the same: the crt

[omegabronic]

Simple thing, All of ben's aliens have an omnitrix in them since they are just ben transformed, so they should all have the omnitrix as a standard equipment, and as such should be able to transform into different aliens with it as ben has shown doing this numerous times during the series, so the aliens should have the ability to transform into other aliens as well just like ben has, altho to note that doing it too much will eventually leave the omntrix out of charge and also they still should have the option of being "life form locked" aka not being able to transform into any other aliens or to de-transform back into ben

 

[Abstractly_a_Protagonist]

This also means that... In Vs match the Alien could de-transform into Ben?

 

[Aachintya31]

Disagree. For vsdebating purposes,things can be changed accordingly.

 

[Greenshifter]

Yes on standard equipment, no on switching during matches except for Chromastone.

 

[omegabronic]

This also means that... In Vs match the Alien could de-transform into Ben?

yeah pretty much, they are transformations, not their own separated characters

Disagree. For vsdebating purposes,things can be changed accordingly.

it can be restricted by making the omnitrix with not enough charge for a change back, all that changes is that it would need to be specified in the op of the vs match

Yes on standard equipment, no on switching during matches except for Chromastone.

if they have it as standard equipment, then why wouldn't they be able to do what they have been show to do with it?

 

[Greenshifter]

yeah pretty much, they are transformations, not their own separated characters

Ben's personality gets altered by transforming

it can be restricted by making the omnitrix with not enough charge for a change back, all that changes is that it would need to be specified in the op of the vs match

Dude, an Omnitrix without charge changes back automatically, that's what happened with the Self-Destruct for Kevin.

if they have it as standard equipment, then why wouldn't they be able to do what they have been show to do with it?

Because we don't want that during VS matches. We treat them as lifeform locked.

 

[omegabronic]

Ben's personality gets altered by transforming

details

Dude, an Omnitrix without charge changes back automatically, that's what happened with the Self-Destruct for Kevin.

see the link of the part about the charge in the op, ben has enough charge to change from big chill to lodestar, but not to change again afterwards, he can change from one to another but after a while he doesn't have enough charge to change again, but he still has to maintain the transformation, besides people already restrict the tier 5 aliens and alien x in matches with ben, they can do the same for all other aliens if they just want one transformation to fight in a vs match no problem

Because we don't want that during VS matches. We treat them as lifeform locked.

any reason for that when that is not their standard form in the show? like, that can still be an option sure, but they also should be allowed to transform into other aliens normally since that is what they do in the show

 

[DemonicDude]

Because we don't want that during VS matches. We treat them as lifeform locked.

Agreed with Greenshifter. Imagine the chaos (No not talking about chaos emerald).

Imagine picking up an aliens lets say Echo Echo for a tournament only for him to turn into big chill and stomp enemy since enemy would have no counter/now wincon thus match becoming stomp thread so yeah I disagree.

 

[Greenshifter]

see the link of the part about the charge in the op, ben has enough charge to change from big chill to lodestar, but not to change again afterwards, he can change from one to another but after a while he doesn't have enough charge to change again, but he still has to maintain the transformation, besides people already restrict the tier 5 aliens and alien x in matches with ben, they can do the same for all other aliens if they just want one transformation to fight in a vs match no problem

That doesn't apply to detransforming, which happens when the Omnitrix runs out of charge. Yeah cause restricting everything else wasn't the intention when the match was made.

any reason for that when that is not their standard form in the show? like, that can still be an option sure, but they also should be allowed to transform into other aliens normally since that is what they do in the show

Because that's what Ben's page is for.

 

[omegabronic]

Agreed with Greenshifter. Imagine the chaos (No not talking about chaos emerald).

Imagine picking up an aliens lets say Echo Echo for a tournament only for him to turn into big chill and stomp enemy since enemy would have no counter/now wincon thus match becoming stomp thread so yeah I disagree.

look no further than the species lock introduced in omniverse, there are options no need to worry

That doesn't apply to detransforming, which happens when the Omnitrix runs out of charge.

just an added weakness for the transformations

Yeah cause restricting everything else wasn't the intention when the match was made.

what match are you talking about?

Because that's what Ben's page is for.

and that changes the fact that the other transformation also should be able to to transform and have been shown to be able to how?

 

[Greenshifter]

look no further than the species lock introduced in omniverse, there are options no need to worry

We literally already do that.

just an added weakness for the transformations

...

what match are you talking about?

Literally every transformation match since the day Ben 10 was created on VSBW.

and that changes the fact that the other transformation also should be able to to transform and have been shown to be able to how?

It doesn't but just no.

 

[omegabronic]

We literally already do that.

that is not noted on the profile tho, and all this thread does is just 1 adding it and 2 putting the change of forms as an option for them, since it is the default state of them in the first place

...

...

Literally every transformation match since the day Ben 10 was created on VSBW.

nothing about them change in any way, if we already assumed the "life form lock" them we just add note to the profiles and call it a day

It doesn't but just no.

why not? there are options already

 

[Reiner04]

Have point but, vs match can simply be made with Aliens but not of ben with literal same p&a and everything, so kinda reductant, to make profiles for them and all the stuff.

 

[Greenshifter]

that is not noted on the profile tho

Maybe we should.

nothing about them change in any way, if we already assumed the "life form lock" them we just add note to the profiles and call it a day

Sure

why not? there are options already

If you're gonna add the note, feel free to give them transformation (or implicitly via standard equipment).

 

[omegabronic]

Have point but, vs match can simply be made with Aliens but not of ben with literal same p&a and everything, so kinda reductant, to make profiles for them and all the stuff.

"life form lock", all this thread does is adding the option of transformations for them

Maybe we should.

Sure

If you're gonna add the note, feel free to give them transformation (or implicitly via standard equipment).

okay, so you agree with the thread them? just a note that they can transform with the omntrix standard equipment?

 

[Greenshifter]

"life form lock", all this thread does is adding the option of transformations for them


okay, so you agree with the thread them? just a note that they can transform with the omntrix standard equipment?

I'd just list the Omnitrix as standard equipment and then write a note that they are assumed to be lifeform locked in a versus thread.

 

[omegabronic]

I'd just list the Omnitrix as standard equipment and then write a note that they are assumed to be lifeform locked in a versus thread.

ok fine, that works

 

[Reiner04]

Life form lock seems fine

 

[Bobsican]

I mean, indexing accuracy takes more priority than matches, plus the OP can just propose slightly different start-ups from regular SBA to limit it to a single form if desired.

 

[Reiner04]

Every alien will get immortality iirc and limited resistance towards death Manipulation even if we lock omnitrix to single life form. Healing as well? Summoning?

 

[omegabronic]

Every alien will get immortality iirc and limited resistance towards death Manipulation even if we lock omnitrix to single life form. Healing as well? Summoning?

explain

 

[Reiner04]

explain

Omnitrix wouldn't let ben Die and it healed chromastone, summoned diamondhead.

 

[omegabronic]

Omnitrix wouldn't let ben Die and it healed chromastone, summoned diamondhead.

yeah i guess so, we just have to put those abilities on the omntix page and then put an "all abilities and resistances of the omntrix" on to their pages

 

[Abstractly_a_Protagonist]

immortality iirc and limited resistance towards death Manipulation

Da fvck immorality and death manip resistance came from

 

[Reiner04]

Da fvck immorality and death manip resistance came from

Omnitrix won't let ben Die, no matter what.

 

[Aachintya31]

Omnitrix won't let ben Die, no matter what.

NLF

 

[Reiner04]

NLF

limited

 

[Bobsican]

Eh, we don't list "resistance to death manip" by having healing or other abilities that "circumvent" it in that sense, otherwise we'd have to give it to anyone with regen above Mid, which isn't how we do things as not only it's redundant, it's not even resisting the ability itself to begin with, but rather rendering its purpose moot long term, which is different and just makes unecessary headaches to think like that. Keep semantics like that to a vs thread.

 

[Abstractly_a_Protagonist]

Omnitrix won't let ben Die, no matter what.

Bro, that refers to the fact Omnitrix automatically transforms Ben into the best Alien that can suit the situation for his survivability.

 

[Reiner04]

Eh, we don't list "resistance to death manip" by having healing or other abilities that "circumvent" it in that sense, otherwise we'd have to give it to anyone with regen above Mid, which isn't how we do things as not only it's redundant, it's not even resisting the ability itself to begin with, but rather rendering its purpose moot long term, which is different and just makes unecessary headaches to think like that. Keep semantics like that to a vs thread.

The point is not regen tbh but that as long it's physical attack then ben wouldn't Die, vilgax killed chromastone by destroyed his entire body to pieces, vilgax took the omnitrix but yet omnitrix responded and revived ben and healed him as well. A regeneration Don't grant you your life.

Bro, that refers to the fact Omnitrix automatically transforms Ben into the best Alien that can suit the situation for his survivability.

It's feature of omnitrix, yes, it's transform ben into most suitable Alien that needed to handle a situation but no, omnitrix don't save ben just by transforming into some other alien, ben was in human form when bigbang hit him and many other Aliens were in their forms for considerable time for bigbang to nuke ben off the existence before he turned into feedback but it didn't because omnitrix would save him. Chromastone vs vilgax is a best example of that.

 

[Bobsican]

...Physical attacks aren't death manip to begin with, unless you want to give that power to anyone with the reasoning "can kill others". Sufficiently high levels of regen do also essencially bring back the user from death, as much as after a certain level of destruction life isn't sustainable anymore, it's just reversed that way in fact.

 

[Reiner04]

...Physical attacks aren't death manip to begin with, unless you want to give that power to anyone with the reasoning "can kill others". Sufficiently high levels of regen do also essencially bring back the user from death, as much as after a certain level of destruction life isn't sustainable anymore, it's just reversed that way in fact.

It is via vital points (Stopping biological process and other stuff)

 

[Bobsican]

Death manip in itself requires directly inflicting death with supernatural methods, rather than just reducing someone to a pulp or similar.

 

[Reiner04]

Death manip in itself requires directly inflicting death with supernatural methods, rather than just reducing someone to a pulp or similar.

The method varies, however; some users may halt vital biological processes or attack the soul directly.

Written on the page itself.

 

[Reiner04]

Any halt to "biological process or physical attacks or related" can't kill Ben. Regeneration can save you from your body being destroyed prolly, cannot from drawn to death necessarily but, yeah, regeneration can work as resistance towards death Manipulation as characters can revive from even soul being destroyed itself.

 

[Bobsican]

A resistance by definition is an ability in question not triggering as usual, not the ability being mitigated by other methods.

Anyways, I guess I'll make a CRT on death manip.

 

[Reiner04]

A resistance by definition is an ability in question not triggering as usual, not the ability being mitigated by other methods.

Anyways, I guess I'll make a CRT on death manip.

The problem is with omnitrix specific case of not providing regen or anything but just "Not letting ben dies", it doesn't really care what happens before that but the moment ben will be one step before death or will be just dead, omnitrix will save him with whatever it can. Omnitrix case is just that not really healing ben or anything.

 

[Bobsican]

I wouldn't claim that's a resistance to death manip, but rather just dynamic Reactive Evolution in such scenario then.

 

[Reiner04]

I wouldn't claim that's a resistance to death manip, but rather just dynamic Reactive Evolution in such scenario then.

As long as pages accepts biological death manp, I would claim it resistance towards death manp as I can't call it regen.

 

[Bobsican]

Made the CRT to cover that