Ben 10 CRT:"Absolute Upgrade"

[BlastX]

Ultimate Kevin Upgrade
This should be easy. Ultimate Kevin is composed by all the aliens of the active playlist of the Ultimatrix at the time, including the Ultimates that were already used, this means he has To’kustar DNA just like his 12 year old mutation, so Ultimate Kevin should scale to 1/10th of Way Big.
The hard part:everyone else
Now obviously this wouldn't be any difficult if it didn't involve anyone else.

Unlike his 12 year old mutation, this Kevin appears for far more time and therefore there's some people that actually scale off him.

Let's leave the most clear one out of the way:Ultimate Echo Echo definitely scales, he bitched Ultimate Kevin pretty easily:He sent him flying through several houses with one Sonic Scream and instantly defeated him once he used his “Sonic Doom” attack, Kevin had to actually take advantage of his Magnetism weakness to stay in the fight and once he stopped he was Sonic Doomed (you may now laugh). Ultimate Echo Echo doesn't have many anti feats from this point on because I think the only times he struggled was against the Techadons (which make sense because they kept getting stronger and stronger), Elena (which she beat him but Elena is probably very strong, Julie had to convince her to stay down) and Shocksquatch (who took advantage of his Electricity weakness because, you guessed, he’s a robot) aside from that he won every other fight he’s been in or didn't have a particular anti feats that involved power.

Now, there's been talks about Ultimate Humongosar scaling too, I disagree with it given the fact Kevin beat him pretty easily without even using any powers and wasn't even breathing hard by the end of the battle, he just pummeled him into defeat, some might say “Well when Ben asked ‘what about now’ he just charged ahead instead of snarking back implying he took him seriously” but this could also mean he decided to prove to Ben with his actions that he wasn't impressed still (and he had no reason to be, he won), some may also ask “well Ben would take Kevin seriously in this instance” to which I reply “Well why didn't he went Ultimate Echo Echo the first bout? Why did he keep using normal aliens instead of evolving them right Away if he was so powerful? Why didn't he use Way Big to finish Kevin off if he was in such a need to beat him?” Hell the dude even used the Andromeda aliens against him even though Kevin has their full power and several more…Point it Ben taking Kevin seriously it's not ground for his aliens scaling unless they actually do something meaningful to Kevin…like beating him.

Ultimate Humungosaur will scale to Ultimate Kevin too.

Anyways, aside from that debacle I think it's fair to say the other aliens don't scale, nor do all other characters that fought Kevin in that arc since until Ultimate Echo Echo arrived he was pretty much unstoppable.

EDIT:Full Potential Darkstar scales to this too because he's basically Ultimate Kevin, literally all his power comes from him.
I think I somehow upgraded the verse
So...because now Ultimate Humungosaur scales to Ultimate Kevin and Ultimate Humungosaur is 10x stronger than Base Humungosaur, this means everyone who scales to Base Humungosaur is 5-A and anyone that scales to Full-size Humungosaur is 5-A+...so there...

Staff agreeing: DarkDragonMedeus, propellus, firestorm

 

[Ghengiroo115]

Just wanted to add that Darkstar would also be upgraded by this due to him absorbing Ultimate Kevin’s power from the Dominus Librium.

 

[BlastX]

Kay I guess, although he does less than Kevin 12 and shows up even less too.

 

[BlastX]

I didn't know Darkstar has a key for full potential, forget I said anything.

 

[Lenyo456]

so Ultimate Kevin should scale to 1/10th of Way Big.

How this is going to work?

Now, there's been talks about Ultimate Humongosar

I disagree, this was a big behavioral text, Kevin was said with words to have gone crazy, he actively tried to kill Ben when he knocked him out, they both exchanged blows and withstood each other's blows, him not using his powers just means he preferred to go trade blows (actually, i think we should choose Base Gwen > U.Humungousaur based on performance)

it's not ground for his aliens scaling unless they actually do something meaningful to Kevin…like beating him.

Should we take this into account? NRG vs Ultimate Kavin is even worse, Kevin had to dodge Ben's attacks, and couldn't crush him, (even though he had the powers of the other aliens)

Agree with the rest

 

[BlastX]

How this is going to work?

I disagree, this was a big behavioral text, Kevin was said with words to have gone crazy, he actively tried to kill Ben when he knocked him out, they both exchanged blows and withstood each other's blows, him not using his powers just means he preferred to go trade blows (actually, i think we should choose Base Gwen > U.Humungousaur based on performance)

Should we take this into account? NRG vs Ultimate Kavin is even worse, Kevin had to dodge Ben's attacks, and couldn't crush him, (even though he had the powers of the other aliens)

Agree with the rest

Ultimate Kevin would just become High 5-A since 1/10th of Way Big is still High 5-A, same reason Kevin 12 is High 5-A.

I mean by this logic we might as well have all other Ben's aliens that fought Ultimate Kevin scale to him, Ben 10 has this weird thing with durability that characters can have prolonged fights with people much stronger than them, but that doesn't mean we scale them to the stronger character, I mean I guess I can have some leeway with Ultimate Humungosaur but there's his anti-feats to consider too.

Though NRG is straight up nonsense outlier unless his suit dura scales and doesn't have outliers, Ultimate Kevin has 11/10th of his powers basically and that's without mentioning all the other things.

 

[BlastX]

Again, I think if they don't outright beat him, then they shouldn't scale, Ultimate Humungosaur gets leeway because I guess his fight was somewhat decent but the others...yeah, no.

 

[Ghengiroo115]

I mean I guess I can have some leeway with Ultimate Humungosaur but there's his anti-feats to consider too.

You know something kinda funny is that if Ultimate Humungousaur isn’t scaling to Ultimate Kevin then he’s kind of in this limbo of not scaling to anyone, since everyone he fights is either a 5-C, a character that scales to no-one else or a character that massively outscales him. Part of it makes me wonder if we should downgrade him to 5-C and ignore his multiplier statement, but idk.

 

[BlastX]

Kay, fine, whatever, he scales to Ultimate Kevin, he did toss up Way Big later on so it's not like he's outside that realm of power, i don't care anymore...

 

[Lenyo456]

Ultimate Kevin would just become High 5-A since 1/10th of Way Big is still High 5-A, same reason Kevin 12 is High 5-A.

If it goes by this logic, it is more preferable to scale Kevin based on what happened on screen than a statement (especially one from Ben 10, where several contradict themselves with the series and other producers of the series)

Though NRG is straight up nonsense outlier unless his suit dura scales and doesn't have outliers, Ultimate Kevin has 11/10th of his powers basically and that's without mentioning all the other things.

Another reason to don't High 5-A based on statement, what happens on screen is more important

 

[Ghengiroo115]

Kay, fine, whatever, he scales to Ultimate Kevin, he did toss up Way Big later on so it's not like he's outside that realm of power, i don't care anymore...

Hey if you don’t want him to then that’s fine, I personally don’t have any strong feelings one way or the other. I was just saying that if he doesn’t scale then it might be best to throw away his multiplier statement and scale him to 5-C instead.

 

[Lenyo456]

Hey if you don’t want him to then that’s fine, I personally don’t have any strong feelings one way or the other. I was just saying that if he doesn’t scale then it might be best to throw away his multiplier statement and scale him to 5-C instead.

Well, that wouldn't be wrong within the lore, evolving over 1 million years doesn't mean you got stronger, like, look at dinosaurs and chickens

 

[Ghengiroo115]

Another reason to don't High 5-A based on statement, what happens on screen is more important

Not if what happens on screen doesn’t make any sense. Kevin has the full power of the Andromeda 5 and 1/10th the power of all of Ben’s aliens, no regular character should realistically be able to harm him.

Well, that wouldn't be wrong within the lore, evolving over 1 million years doesn't mean you got stronger, like, look at dinosaurs and chickens

I mean it is a post-apocalyptic war scenario they go through, so it’s a bit different.

 

[BlastX]

If it goes by this logic, it is more preferable to scale Kevin based on what happened on screen than a statement (especially one from Ben 10, where several contradict themselves with the series and other producers of the series)

Another reason to don't High 5-A based on statement, what happens on screen is more important

I'm not sure how this changes anything, Kevin would scale to High 5-A either way since he has To'kustar DNA, that's a fact, it's how much he downscales from it is the thing.

NRG just becomes an outlier, there's no reason in-universe why he should scale even taking only the show into account.

 

[Reiner04]

I gotta say that UA Humungousaur will scale given the context and ben/kevin both acknowledging as some who can exchange few blows with UA kevin. Agree with rest.

 

[BlastX]

Anyways changed the OP to reflect Ben's favorite ultimate alien scaling.

 

[Reiner04]

You can mark me full agree on it now.

 

[BlastX]

You can mark me full agree on it now.

 

[Reiner04]

Will it be better to add scaling chain. Since everyone in the verse downscales from UA Humungousaur. But I would like to correct a mistake in profile, currently UA Humungousaur in base scales 10 times full Sized Humungousaur, when he should be only twice as strong.

Tho, he'll be 10 times stronger than every other existing which kinda explains how they all gets knocked out so easily, since 10 times is oneshot gap.

 

[BlastX]

Not really? Last I checked and he's only 10 as strong as his normal size self, not his full size.

And I'm pretty sure we're getting rid of any multiplier related to him, Humungosaur is not downscaling from his evolved form, same as Echo Echo.

 

[Reiner04]

Not really? Last I checked and he's only 10 as strong as his normal size self, not his full size.

Oh ic.

And I'm pretty sure we're getting rid of any multiplier related to him, Humungosaur is not downscaling from his evolved form, same as Echo Echo.

Eh.. why that have to be done tho? Since multipliers don't create any problem with existing proposal.

 

[BlastX]

I'm pretty sure Humungosaur scaling to 5-A when even the high end doesn't reach that far is gonna cause problems.

 

[omegabronic]

I'm pretty sure Humungosaur scaling to 5-A when even the high end doesn't reach that far is gonna cause problems.

not really? we already have tier 5 feats being done rather cassually, i don't see why 5-A would break that

 

[Reiner04]

I'm pretty sure Humungosaur scaling to 5-A when even the high end doesn't reach that far is gonna cause problems.

Not really. Since that's just how our powerscaling rules works, take the feat and character who scales to its then downscale everyone if possible. That's how characters who don't have any feats still get the Scaling.

 

[Ghengiroo115]

Will it be better to add scaling chain. Since everyone in the verse downscales from UA Humungousaur. But I would like to correct a mistake in profile, currently UA Humungousaur in base scales 10 times full Sized Humungousaur, when he should be only twice as strong.

Tho, he'll be 10 times stronger than every other existing which kinda explains how they all gets knocked out so easily, since 10 times is oneshot gap.

Huh, guess that other statement making him 10x as strong did only account for base Humungousaur.

Eh.. why that have to be done tho? Since multipliers don't create any problem with existing proposal.

I’m not sure if scaling a notoriously inconsistent verse to 5-A solely through some secondary canon multipliers is the best idea. Would be pretty based if you pulled it off though

 

[Reiner04]

I’m not sure if scaling a fairly inconsistent verse to 5-A solely through some secondary canon multipliers is the best idea. Would be pretty based if you pulled it off though

I mean we do already do that. and UA Humungousaur being like trillions times more powerful than Humungousaur would be pretty too much given regular Humungousaur army took him down. 10 times gap solves the issue entirely.

 

[BlastX]

Kay so anyone that scales to Humungosaur is 5-A, anyone scaling to full size Humungosaur is 5-A+ and anyone scaling to Ultimate Humungosaur is High 5-A...

I um...was not expecting this when I made this CRT, but the thread name is fitting.

 

[Reiner04]

Kay so anyone that scales to Humungosaur is 5-A, anyone scaling to full size Humungosaur is 5-A+ and anyone scaling to Ultimate Humungosaur is High 5-A...

I um...was not expecting this when I made this CRT, but the thread name is fitting.

Yeah, this seems better.

 

[BlastX]

Anyways changed the OP a third time to reflect the new possible changes.

 

[BlastX]

 

[Ghengiroo115]

I mean we do already do that. and UA Humungousaur being like trillions times more powerful than Humungousaur would be pretty too much given regular Humungousaur army took him down. 10 times gap solves the issue entirely.

Technically even a 10x amp makes that scene look bad for Ultimate Humungousaur, since Ultimate Greg was basically unharmed with only a 7x amp.

Idk I just don’t think a couple of secondary canon statements justifies such a massive boost for the entire regular cast, especially when the closest feat regular characters have to that number is like a million times lower. That’s also disregarding how the feat in question was almost 200 supposed 5-A’s combining their powers together to do a 5-B feat. If we really want to keep the multipliers it would be much more reasonable to not scale Ultimate Humungousaur to Ultimate Kevin. I really want High 5-A Hugh though

 

[omegabronic]

Technically even a 10x amp makes that scene look bad for Ultimate Humungousaur, since Ultimate Greg was basically unharmed with only a 7x amp.

Idk I just don’t think a couple of secondary canon statements justifies such a massive boost for the entire regular cast, especially when the closest feat regular characters have to that number is like a million times lower. That’s also disregarding how the feat in question was almost 200 supposed 5-A’s combining their powers together to do a 5-B feat. If we really want to keep the multipliers it would be much more reasonable to not scale Ultimate Humungousaur to Ultimate Kevin. I really want High 5-A Hugh though

the said 5-B feat was extremely casual, that is not a problem at all

 

[BlastX]

Actually it be 200 5-B, remember that 10 year old Upgrade is 10x weaker than his teen self and he scales above average Galvanic Mechamorphs.

 

[Reiner04]

Technically even a 10x amp makes that scene look bad for Ultimate Humungousaur, since Ultimate Greg was basically unharmed with only a 7x amp.

UA Greg never really fought an army of someone 7 times weaker than him afaik. He was given a good match by UA canonbolt. 10 times gap is currently Just enough for a oneshot gap but as the number increases, it goes where it does.

 

[Ghengiroo115]

the said 5-B feat was extremely casual, that is not a problem at all

If you have to combine with 200 other people to do a feat I’m not sure if you can exactly call it casual. Casual for the combined forces maybe, but not for an individual Mechamorph.

UA Greg never really fought an army of someone 7 times weaker than him afaik. He was given a good match by UA canonbolt. 10 times gap is currently Just enough for a oneshot gap but as the number increases, it goes where it does.

He didn’t no, but he did let himself get pummelled by Humungousaur and came out unscathed. Also Cannonbolt isn’t the best example since he’s boosted by his momentum.

Also I just double checked and the Humungousaur army doesn’t actually beat Ultimate Humungousaur up. In fact he doesn’t even take any damage the entire fight. They just pin him down and Albedo de-transforms back to human (probably ran out of juice for the Ultimatrix).

 

[omegabronic]

If you have to combine with 200 other people to do a feat I’m not sure if you can exactly call it casual. Casual for the combined forces maybe, but not for an individual Mechamorph.

we don't know if they needed to do that, as far as we know if could be because of range

also Upgrade upscales via peak of the species anyway

Also I just double checked and the Humungousaur army doesn’t even beat Ultimate Humungousaur up. In fact he doesn’t even take any damage the entire fight. They just pin him down and Albedo de-transforms back to human (probably ran out of juice for the Ultimatrix).

oh, so problem solved, neat

 

[Reiner04]

He didn’t no, but he did let himself get pummelled by Humungousaur and came out unscathed.

same as UA Humungousaur, he can one shot single humg.

Also Cannonbolt isn’t the best example since he’s boosted by his momentum.

That's fine. We scale canonbolt to the momentum he can get then up/down scaling rest of cast with it.

Also I just double checked and the Humungousaur army doesn’t even beat Ultimate Humungousaur up. In fact he doesn’t even take any damage the entire fight. They just pin him down and Albedo de-transforms back to human probably due to him running out of juice.

They did overpowered him before he was detransformed as far as I remember.

 

[Ghengiroo115]

we don't know if they needed to do that, as far as we know if could be because of range

also Upgrade upscales via peak of the species anyway

True

oh, so problem solved, neat

Nah, this just means the fight isn’t an anti-feat for a potentially trillions of times stronger Ultimate Hugh.

They did overpowered him before he was detransformed as far as I remember.

Yea they pinned him down with LS, but they weren’t able to harm him.

 

[omegabronic]

Nah, this just means the fight isn’t an anti-feat for a potentially trillions of times stronger Ultimate Hugh.

unless you have anything that would imply such a big difference vs our officially stated multipliers......guess we don't have much to talk anymore, it your word vs the non contradicted official statements

 

[Reiner04]

But eitherway, secondary canon can be used as long as is not contradicted. Given ua humung not being too higher than humung is supported than anything else, ig we have to go with it eitherway at the end of the day.

Yea they pinned him down with LS, but they weren’t able to harm him.

His LS seems to be increasing with just as much rate as much his AP does, he can single handedly throw/overpower Humungousaur off the field. Given his AP ridiculously high, he should have not been defeated right there like that regardless of circumstances. With secondary sources does supporting as well that ua shouldn't be, like, trillions times that of ua and consistently giving a multiplier. I think asserting otherwise is kinda unsupported.