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World of Darkness: Cosmology 1.5 TM/INC/LLC/CR

So... would it be a problem if Characters like Bondye's first key, Archmages and YHWH get tier 0 upgrade right away? And just separate I AM THAT I AM from jahovah's profile? Like even if universes stay at 1-A+ their tier dosen't change at all.
 
Gasper said:
So... would it be a problem if Characters like Bondye's first key, Archmages and YHWH get tier 0 upgrade right away? And just separate I AM THAT I AM from jahovah's profile? Like even if universes stay at 1-A+ their tier dosen't change at all.
Click to expand...
They're going to 0 anyway
 
@Elizhaa @Qawsedf234 @KingPin0422 @Pain_to12 @Everything12 @Planck69 @ByAsura @SomebodyData @Celestial_Pegasus @Wokistan @Damage3245 @Abstractions @GyroNutz @DarkGrath @Firestorm808 @Duedate8898 @UchihaSlayer96 @Maverick_Zero_X

Would any of you be willing to help evaluate if DontTalk's arguments here make sense to you please?






 
Antvasima said:
Would any of you be willing to help evaluate if DontTalk's arguments here make sense to you please?
Click to expand...
It's what I said originally
“Tellurian” essentially means everything. It’s Reality with a capital R – everything that has been imagined, can be imagined, or has yet to be imagined. It’s a word for something that transcends words… an ineffable name of God, if you will.
Why would the names of God or Infinity be unspeakable?
The reason many religions forbid speaking the names of their God is because those religions consider Divinity to be beyond definition; to name it is to limit it… and thus, to insult it. Giving Divinity a name is to literally profane it – “to put yourself before the temple”, or to place yourself above Divinity. And so, if you think of Infinity in Divine terms, the name Tellurian, or “little earth,” offers an affectionate metaphor in place of that unspeakable name.

In academic terms, a tellurian is a model that demonstrates how the world works; following the ancient principle of macrocosm and microcosm, or “As above, so below,” a tellurian reveals how the world works by offering a “small” demonstration.

And although many mages in our era remain agnostic or atheistic, the mages who put the cosmic Tellurian metaphor in place were men and women of faith, so that metaphor was important… especially when they were trying to bridge faiths without insulting anyone’s ideas about God.

Tellurian is another way of saying Infinity, God, or Possibility. It’s potential that cannot be grasped except through metaphor.
So when you say “the Tellurian,” you’re literally saying “Everything.”
Infinity is too big to wrap your head around. Like God, it needs a face. The Tapestry is that face – a metaphor for that which exists. Whereas the Tellurian is potential, the Tapestry is form. All woven together like some artistic curtain, the strands of interconnected existence create a shimmering whole.
Click to expand...
Despite that the Umbra is still an inaccessibly higher realm
Anything's possible.

The Infinite Tapestry of creation encompasses everything – all that is, all that was, and all that can be imagined. For a frame of reference, mages place the Earth at the center of all creation, if only to understand the mysteries around it. Call this reality the physical world, if you like, or the real world, if you eschew all alternatives. We call it Earth. Mages are human, first and foremost, and thus, they live and die in this world, the sphere inhabited by ordinary humans. When referring to the Tapestry, most rely on the same terms, ideas, and frames of reference they used before the Reckoning. Whether all these ideas hold true remains to be seen. Their planet is no longer the center of creation, and once safe Realms now deceive and destroy the unwary.

Above, below, and around — these are the cardinal directions for places that don't exist. All around us is a spirit world we cannot see, a reflection of the physical world. Everything in our world casts a "shadow" of sorts into that dimension; thus, mages often use the Latin word for shadow – the Umbra – to describe it. Ephemeral spirits inhabit a realm where nearly everything is alive. Its closest dimension, the Penumbra, mirrors our own. For almost every building and person existing in our world, something forged from ephemeral spirits exists in the Penumbra to represent it.

In ages past, mages found it easier to enter the Penumbra than any other alternate dimensions. Learned Verbena speak of the Paths of Wyck that once stretched through it to other parts of the planet, forming roads between continents. These were some of the first pathways used to navigate spiritual wilderness. The few trods, airts, and passageways that remain are crafted by spirits, and guarded by them as well. Older willworkers learned to pass through the Penumbra on their way to other dimensions, places above, below, and around it. These three Umbrae — High, Low and Middle collectively form the Near Umbra; the boundaries of all three extend to the limits of Earth's atmosphere.
Click to expand...

Once you hit the Umbra you're getting into High 1-A territory and once you get to the Horizon or Tellurian its going to be Tier 0
 
Gasper said:
So it'll be like this:

The universe: 1-A+

The multiverse high 1-A

The Tapestry: 0

The Low Umbra: 0

The High Umbra: 0

The Horizon: 0

The Tellurian: 0

The Void: 0

Alder Bole, the World Tree: 0

The Supernal: 0
Click to expand...
I mean if Set theory doesn't normally contain large cardinal, the upper tier for the universe is at best 1-A+ as DontTalk stated. I guess the tiers would be similar to what is above.
 
Elizhaa said:
I mean if Set theory doesn't normally contain large cardinal,
Click to expand...
Set theory does not cover Large Cardinals. Which is why the universe would be 1-A+. But as mentioned Thins like the Umbra and higher levels of existence would still qualify for High 1-A and 0 due to their nature of transcendence. It just wouldn't be to the degree the OP has it at.
 
Artorimachi_Meteoraft said:
If we do we should have a toast and party because that’s the highest thing possible

currently which cardinal are we on?
Click to expand...
0=1 property.
Antvasima said:
@Elizhaa @Qawsedf234 @KingPin0422 @Pain_to12 @Everything12 @Planck69 @ByAsura @SomebodyData @Celestial_Pegasus @Wokistan @Damage3245 @Abstractions @GyroNutz @DarkGrath @Firestorm808 @Duedate8898 @UchihaSlayer96 @Maverick_Zero_X

Would any of you be willing to help evaluate if DontTalk's arguments here make sense to you please?






Click to expand...
Considering that @Qawsedf234 has now replied, how many more staff votes do we need to approve?
 
Qawsedf234 said:
Set theory does not cover Large Cardinals. Which is why the universe would be 1-A+. But as mentioned Thins like the Umbra and higher levels of existence would still qualify for High 1-A and 0 due to their nature of transcendence. It just wouldn't be to the degree the OP has it at.
Click to expand...
Yep, that is the currently agreed model
 
Qawsedf234 said:
It's what I said originally
“Tellurian” essentially means everything. It’s Reality with a capital R – everything that has been imagined, can be imagined, or has yet to be imagined. It’s a word for something that transcends words… an ineffable name of God, if you will.
Why would the names of God or Infinity be unspeakable?
The reason many religions forbid speaking the names of their God is because those religions consider Divinity to be beyond definition; to name it is to limit it… and thus, to insult it. Giving Divinity a name is to literally profane it – “to put yourself before the temple”, or to place yourself above Divinity. And so, if you think of Infinity in Divine terms, the name Tellurian, or “little earth,” offers an affectionate metaphor in place of that unspeakable name.

In academic terms, a tellurian is a model that demonstrates how the world works; following the ancient principle of macrocosm and microcosm, or “As above, so below,” a tellurian reveals how the world works by offering a “small” demonstration.

And although many mages in our era remain agnostic or atheistic, the mages who put the cosmic Tellurian metaphor in place were men and women of faith, so that metaphor was important… especially when they were trying to bridge faiths without insulting anyone’s ideas about God.

Tellurian is another way of saying Infinity, God, or Possibility. It’s potential that cannot be grasped except through metaphor.
So when you say “the Tellurian,” you’re literally saying “Everything.”

Despite that the Umbra is still an inaccessibly higher realm


Once you hit the Umbra you're getting into High 1-A territory and once you get to the Horizon or Tellurian its going to be Tier 0
Click to expand...
Qawsedf234 said:
Set theory does not cover Large Cardinals. Which is why the universe would be 1-A+. But as mentioned Thins like the Umbra and higher levels of existence would still qualify for High 1-A and 0 due to their nature of transcendence. It just wouldn't be to the degree the OP has it at.
Click to expand...
I thin tiers are fine, then.
 
Qawsedf234 said:
Set theory does not cover Large Cardinals. Which is why the universe would be 1-A+. But as mentioned Thins like the Umbra and higher levels of existence would still qualify for High 1-A and 0 due to their nature of transcendence. It just wouldn't be to the degree the OP has it at.
Click to expand...
I would disagree here. If the universe is 1-A+, that would pretty much still get Umbra to Tier 0, since you’re forgetting the structures that are higher like the multiverse and Tapestry, all of which are below the Umbral realms. If we go by that we would have High 1-A multiverse and pretty much Tier 0 Tapestry since it’s meant to contain all of the physical reality itself. Udl explained their scaling earlier.
 
Dinoanime7 said:
I would disagree here. If the universe is 1-A+, that would pretty much still get Umbra to Tier 0, since you’re forgetting the structures that are higher like the multiverse and Tapestry, all of which are below the Umbral realms. If we go by that we would have High 1-A multiverse and pretty much Tier 0 Tapestry since it’s meant to contain all of the physical reality itself. Udl explained their scaling earlier.
Click to expand...
I think he wasn’t very specific; the scaling should go the way you said
 
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