Devilman CRT tier Upgrade

[ByAsura]

I suppose I can also add references and fixed up scans while I'm at it.

 

[Kingcollapser]

Just so we're on the same page

Low 2-C Zennon and Satan, with a Low 2-C Hell key for Devilman?

Yes i agree with this though I don't believe that's the cap of their power.

It's not secondary canon, it's blatantly non-canon. Besides, normal Devilman doesn't even scale to it anyway since that power was suppressed.

Go nagai himself wrote the other manga that connect to the devilman story. It makes no sense to only use the original manga when there are others that expand on the story. It even says it in The rules "The primary canon is the source material first released (with few possible exceptions), with the other author works being secondary canon." His power wasn't surpressed at all, he was able to rival Satan.

You didn't really provide any proof except for that Devilman Sidestory (which isn't Darkside), and even that can quite easily be explained away. On the other hand, I provided explanations for why it directly contradicts the events of Devilman, like sections of the story where it repeats similar events but completely alters them and has elements that simply don't gel with the original.

"Amon: The Darkside of the Devilman is an alternate setting to the last chapters of the original Devilman manga.", I linked an article of Nagai saying his works are connected, In one of Nagai's other manga that exist in the Devilman universe they directly referance Both Hades and The end of Devilman Lady. So that confirms the events of Devilman vs Hades.

You're not expalning why these should't be allowed. You say they're non-canon but the Author and his Manga say otherwise. If he wrote them and connected them through several books then how are they not canon to any degree?

 

[Kingcollapser]

I would, but I assume Kingcollapser has some specific ideas about what they want to change in mind.

Aside from the tier I want to add his missing Abilities

 

[ByAsura]

Why do I have to explain it more than I already did? Events that happen in the original story are blatantly turned on their heads in Darkside of Devilman. That literally means they cannot co-exist.

He literally says an alternate setting in the exact. That blatantly means it's a non-canonical story.

As for connections within stories, I could use that to say the Star Trek remakes and Cloverfield are in the same universe just because JJ Abrams likes including slusho in his films.

 

[Kingcollapser]

Why do I have to explain it more than I already did? Events that happen in the original story are blatantly turned on their heads in Darkside of Devilman. That literally means they cannot co-exist.

He literally says an alternate setting in the exact. That blatantly means it's a non-canonical story.

What about DM v H? is that allowed since it doesn't contradict with any other manga?

 

[foxhunter]

Yes i agree with this though I don't believe that's the cap of their power.

Go nagai himself wrote the other manga that connect to the devilman story. It makes no sense to only use the original manga when there are others that expand on the story. It even says it in The rules "The primary canon is the source material first released (with few possible exceptions), with the other author works being secondary canon." His power wasn't surpressed at all, he was able to rival Satan.

"Amon: The Darkside of the Devilman is an alternate setting to the last chapters of the original Devilman manga.", I linked an article of Nagai saying his works are connected, In one of Nagai's other manga that exist in the Devilman universe they directly referance Both Hades and The end of Devilman Lady. So that confirms the events of Devilman vs Hades.

You're not expalning why these should't be allowed. You say they're non-canon but the Author and his Manga say otherwise. If he wrote them and connected them through several books then how are they not canon to any degree?

The connections here means like influence not tied into the same series or lore or whatever

 

[ByAsura]

He straight up confirms what I said in the last line by saying

Akihiro Hino : “I think the worldview of manga artists has a favorite axis. I think it's the same for Leiji Matsumoto, who develops multiple works within the same worldview, but even though the works are different, they seem to be connected in some way”.

Go Nagai : “Yes, that's right. The fundamentals and core are the same.

He's referring to the overarching world view across his Devilman works, not the continuity of the stories.

What about DM v H? is that allowed since it doesn't contradict with any other manga?

Isn't that based in an alternate timeline where Devilman flees after his forces are defeated by Satan's army?

 

[Kingcollapser]

The connections here means like influence not tied into the same series or lore or whatever

But they are. Not just in influence he literally connects these stories together

 

[foxhunter]

But they are. Not just in influence he literally connects these stories together

I believe they're connected but not the way you're implying at least with your evidence, for example resident evil and devil may cry have a connection, however it isn't tied into the same story line

 

[Kingcollapser]

He straight up confirms what I said in the last line by saying

Akihiro Hino : “I think the worldview of manga artists has a favorite axis. I think it's the same for Leiji Matsumoto, who develops multiple works within the same worldview, but even though the works are different, they seem to be connected in some way”.

Go Nagai : “Yes, that's right. The fundamentals and core are the same

He's referring to the overarching world view across his Devilman works, not the continuity of the stories.

But he also connects his works. Aside from Influence there has been many times where his works were connected lore wise outside of the Devilmen manga.

Isn't that based in an alternate timeline where Devilman flees after his forces are defeated by Satan's army?

It takes place During his journey through hell trying to revive miki. It fits perfectly after the og manga and before the sequal

 

[ByAsura]

You can have alternate versions of stories with the same characters, and similar connections. Devilman itself is famous for this, with stories like Devilman Crybaby.

Devilman Crybaby is actually a very good example because it also takes elements from other non-canonical Devilman works, like the destruction of the moon/the manner that Akira gets bisected in Neo Devilman.

Then there's Dragon Ball, Beowulf, etc (I know that's two dumbass examples, but who cares).

But he also connects his works. Aside from Influence there has been many times where his works were connected lore wise outside of the Devilmen manga.

Ok, but in what capacity? Recycling characters means very little, especially if there's huge elements of the stories that prove they're at least not in the same universe.

It takes place During his journey through hell trying to revive miki. It fits perfectly after the og manga and before the sequal

I'll have to check the continuity.

 

[Kingcollapser]

I believe they're connected but not the way you're implying at least with your evidence, for example resident evil and devil may cry have a connection, however it isn't tied into the same story line

I can Provide more scans to prove my point, that's no problem

 

[foxhunter]

I believe they're connected but not the way you're implying at least with your evidence

I can Provide more scans to prove my point, that's no problem

Ok, go for it

 

[Kingcollapser]

You can have alternate versions of stories with the same characters, and similar connections. Devilman itself is famous for this, with stories like Devilman Crybaby.

Devilman Crybaby is actually a very good example because it also takes elements from other non-canonical Devilman works, like the destruction of the moon/the manner that Akira gets bisected in Neo Devilman.

Then there's Dragon Ball, Beowulf, etc (I know that's two dumbass examples, but who cares).

I know about the alternate versions. That's why i never mentioned Devilman G, Toshin Devilman, Devil lady, or even Yuki fudo from saga. These are all specefic to the Akira fudo from The manga.

Ok, but in what capacity? Recycling characters means very little, especially if there's huge elements of the stories that prove they're at least not in the same universe.

I'll have to check the continuity.

I'm going to gather more scans to show it.

 

[ByAsura]

Ok, I literally just read the first chapter, and it's already non-canon.

This Devilman is explicitly still alive, he went into hiding after the Corps were wrecked by Satan's forces rather than getting killed by Satan, and then tried to look for Miki by crossing the boundary of hell by himself without dying.

Plus, it doesn't make sense with the continuity of hell in Devilman Lady.

 

[Kingcollapser]

Ok, I literally just read the first chapter, and it's already non-canon.

This Devilman is explicitly still alive, he went into hiding after the Corps were wrecked by Satan's forces rather than getting killed by Satan, and then tried to look for Miki by crossing the boundary of hell by himself without dying.

Plus, it doesn't make sense with the continuity of hell in Devilman Lady.

ok ill admit i didn't remember that since I think it was only referened once. However it still does fit into the continuity considering he goes to hell to fight greek gods and In Devilman lady he has knowledge on the greek gods and the titans. Plus there's already been confirmation that hades is a canon character. And again Nagai wrote the story. Even if there's some contridictions, he's confirmed that at least some of these events are canon. It fits perfectly in the Gap of the og and lady.

 

[ByAsura]

It takes place During his journey through hell trying to revive miki. It fits perfectly after the og manga and before the sequal

Adding to this, there's still a ruined planet in chapter 2 that Devilman can travel between at will.

ok ill admit i didn't remember that since I think it was only referened once. However it still does fit into the continuity considering he goes to hell to fight greek gods and In Devilman lady he has knowledge on the greek gods and the titans. Plus there's already been confirmation that hades is a canon character. And again Nagai wrote the story. Even if there's some contridictions, he's confirmed that at least some of these events are canon.

This is really just the same recycled arguments that I've already addressed.

Same characters / similar mythology =/= canon. Especially since they weren't in Hell in Devilman Lady, having been defeated by the Giants and forced to flee a long ass time ago, after which the Giants were chained away.

Nagai writing it + saying there's some connections to the overarching worldviews =/= canon.

It fits perfectly in the Gap of the og and lady.

No it doesn't. In the original, God appears and resets the timeline right after Akira dies. Then Akira wakes up in Hell and immediately flies to find that time reset.

The gap was already filled by Devilman Lady, and Hades actually contradicts it utterly.

Also, like I said, Devilman literally didn't die. There's no real argument to be had here.

 

[foxhunter]

Just make a separate key for those versions

 

[ByAsura]

Separate profile.

We don't do composites on the wiki anymore, even if it's for alternate history versions of characters rather than parallel universes/different realities.

 

[foxhunter]

Oh we don't? Well separate profiles

 

[ByAsura]

I'm confused, what's your point?

That god reset the world after Satan won, so there'd be no ruined world if this was the original continuity.

Acutally he does wander hell, he even calls himself a man whowanders hell.

I'm not talking about Devilman Lady, I'm talking about the fact that he isn't dead in the Hades timeline.

 

[Kingcollapser]

That god reset the world after Satan won, so there'd be no ruined world if this was the original continuity.

Not completly true. There are ways to travel to universes that don't exist anymore. So there being a ruined world in a desroyed universe makes sense. But this isn't even the same universe he's from. The later chapters show that this is one of the universes from Mazinger z.

I'm not talking about Devilman Lady, I'm talking about the fact that he isn't dead in the Hades timeline.

After the events of the og devilman died and woke up in hell. Hades takes place after his death, which is why he's in hell looking for miki's soul. He can travel between hell and earth because he has godly power like persephone explained. She even mentions the final battle in the og and you obv know he died in that battle. She said it seems he went into hiding which means that there was a period of time where he was just wondering around. She doesn't even know what he did during that period of time. This makes sense since satan was also hiding on earth hiding from micheal while akira was in hell.

"This Devilman is explicitly still alive, he went into hiding after the Corps were wrecked by Satan's forces rather than getting killed by Satan, and then tried to look for Miki by crossing the boundary of hell by himself without dying."

He did the same feat while he was dead. And they never say HE is alive, just that only Gods should have that certain ability. In fact Where would he even hide if not in hell? God pulled up right after that fight.

In the original, God appears and resets the timeline right after Akira dies. Then Akira wakes up in Hell and immediately flies to find that time reset."

you completly ignored the scans where akira says he wandered hell. In that time he spent it gaining knowledge of Greek deity's And Hell itself. The same greek deitys that he kills in Devilman v Hades. He even destroys hell's barriers, the same barriers mentioned in Lady.

 

[ByAsura]

Not completly true. There are ways to travel to universes that don't exist anymore. So there being a ruined world in a desroyed universe makes sense. But this isn't even the same universe he's from. The later chapters show that this is one of the universes from Mazinger z.

She didn't even travel there, she just saw it in a dimensional gap while passing through.

Also, how come Akira never mentions going to the ruined reality if it ever happened?

After the events of the og devilman died and woke up in hell. Hades takes place after his death, which is why he's in hell looking for miki's soul.

You're just linking Devilman Lady. How is that evidence?

He can travel between hell and earth because he has godly power like persephone explained.

Something he can't do for significant lengths of time Devilman Lady, unlike the Hades series. Hence the contradiction.

She even mentions the final battle in the og and you obv know he died in that battle.

It literally says he went into hiding after his forces were wrecked. My entire point is that it's an alternate universe where Akira went into hiding rather than dying.

She said it seems he went into hiding which means that there was a period of time where he was just wondering around. She doesn't even know what he did during that period of time.

If he died at any point, she definitely would've mentioned it, or at least that what they were talking to was a spirit.

This makes sense since satan was also hiding on earth hiding from micheal while akira was in hell.

If anything, that makes less sense because Satan would've found Akira very easily.

Also, I really don't see how this supports your point, especially since Satan was alive.

He did the same feat while he was dead.

For a very brief period. He can do it indefinitely in Hades, and he's actually corporeal. Context matters.

And they never say HE is alive, just that only Gods should have that certain ability.

They do say he's alive (or something equivocal, anyway). I already gave you the scan.

In fact Where would he even hide if not in hell? God pulled up right after that fight.

My guy, he travels to Earth in Devilman vs. Hades anyway. How does this even remotely support your point?

you completly ignored the scans where akira says he wandered hell. In that time he spent it gaining knowledge of Greek deity's And Hell itself.

I didn't ignore it. It just has no relevance to anything.

Explain how it remotely has any relevance to proving Hades canon, or why it punches any sort of hole in my argument?

The same greek deitys that he kills in Devilman v Hades. He even destroys hell's barriers, the same barriers mentioned in Lady.

You're just proving yourself wrong. If they're dead and the barrier is broken, how the **** are they still there in Lady?

 

[Kingcollapser]

Ok, go for it

In Mazinger Angels akira comes face to face with Enma. Enma is the descendant of hades. The same hades from Devilman vs Hades. This is also the same hades who's a main antagonist from the Mazinger series. In the later half of DM v H Akira meets the main cast of mazinger z. Cutie Honey appears in a Devilman lady crossover and In shin Mazinger zero as well as other go nagai characters from other series. Cutie and Akira have also met up before. Duke fleed, the mc from Grendizer is In shin mazinger zero. Dynamic heros is a crossover between multple Nagai Characters. The dark sun from Enma-kun is the same Dark sun from Devilman lady. Another OVA crossover. Satan, Devilman, Cutie honey, Enma kun, And Getter robo are all name dropped. Nagai has established a whole multiverse within Devilman and Mazinger so timelines aren't linear so characters from different series meeting up happens frequently, these aren't even all the examples.

 

[ByAsura]

Ok, then. If we take your inter-franchise scaling as all canon (despite the fact that the same characters existing isn't even proof), then God didn't even make Hell.

 

[Omnificence]

This is helpful, I already had it saved beforehand just in case. I was thinking of adding a blog about the composite cosmology.

Yeah. Feel free to use it. That, or I might ask for whatever knowledge you have on the cosmology to add it to this blog. Dunno if I'll ever finish it.

 

[Ikelaggan]

Edit: Feats I left out because they’re from a cross over manga but should be seen for scaling reasons

Devilman reacts to this kick from Cyborg 009
(Note: 009 can move ftl without his acceleration device)

Devilman clashes with 009 while he’s accelerating and they destroy this building

Devilman moves faster than 009 can see while 009 is in acceleration mode and kicks him through two buildings

Catches up to 009 and grabs his leg

2-C Feat: 009 fly’s across the world combing his and Devilman’s power which combines both of their universes.

Looking at this reminded of something, 009's page is built like a 2018 fossilized slab of ass. Even the respect thread they linked doesn't even have battle of gods or call of justice as even keys on the profile.

 

[Abscoolguy]

Guess he should be the next one to get a CRT after Devilman lol, Mazinger's already feasted

 

[Kingcollapser]

Yeah. Feel free to use it. That, or I might ask for whatever knowledge you have on the cosmology to add it to this blog. Dunno if I'll ever finish it.

If you do, my helps is yours

 

[Kingcollapser]

Looking at this reminded of something, 009's page is built like a 2018 fossilized slab of ass. Even the respect thread they linked doesn't even have battle of gods or call of justice as even keys on the profile.

Yeah I noticed that, pretty disappointing honestly.

 

[ByAsura]

Anyway, I'll post my ideas later (I lost them yesterday), and maybe it's something we can both agree with (it's Low 2-C regardless).

 

[Kingcollapser]

Anyway, I'll post my ideas later (I lost them yesterday), and maybe it's something we can both agree with (it's Low 2-C regardless).

I haven’t had the time to look at your other replies from yesterday. Ill be on the wiki later to read your ideas and replies

 

[Omnificence]

If you do, my helps is yours

Okay, cool. I mostly got the info from these two blogs, btw. And I also found some scans from this.

 

[Kingcollapser]

Guess he should be the next one to get a CRT after Devilman lol, Mazinger's already feasted

A mazinger fan as well? Nicee

 

[Abscoolguy]

A mazinger fan as well? Nicee

Yep, honestly I want to see if ZERO ever gets a profile lol

 

[ByAsura]

A mazinger fan as well? Nicee

If it's the original manga, I could also assist. I read it to make a CRT that went nowhere.

 

[Kingcollapser]

She didn't even travel there, she just saw it in a dimensional gap while passing through.

That’s true however my point still stands since Dante traveled to The Mao Dante universe through The Dimensional Gap. If you don’t know, that universe existed Before The Devilman manga was written.

Also, how come Akira never mentions going to the ruined reality if it ever happened?

It’s mentioned to him, he just doesn’t care. He knows that the world is ruined and he actually made it worse by releasing the souls of the newly Dead but none of it matters to him because he’s on a mission to Revive Miki without fail.

You're just linking Devilman Lady. How is that evidence?

There were scans I was referring to but i accidentally used the link for the whole chapter. I was pointing out that when he died he woke up in Hell. He spent a long time there. DMVH takes place sometime during his time in hell When he was able to locate Miki’s soul. This had to have happened before lady because Jun and Akira **** while flying through hell which means he moved on from Miki by this point. Hades was unable to revive Persephone and Miki on his own. And akira was obviously not going to hear him out. This would make perfect sense as to why Miki never shows up in Lady except in Akira’s flashback to her death. She opens her eyes at the end of DMVH but since it never continues after that we’ll never know what happened directly after.

Something he can't do for significant lengths of time Devilman Lady, unlike the Hades series. Hence the contradiction.

There’s no time limit to his ability, and he’s done it multiple times in Lady.
These Chapters all show him doing so:

DEVILMAN LADY VOL.9 CHAPTER 20: THE ERASED HISTORY

DEVILMAN LADY VOL.10 CHAPTER 25: AKIRA'S ACTIONS

DEVILMAN LADY VOL.10 CHAPTER 26: ASUKA'S TRUE NATURE

DEVILMAN LADY VOL.11 CHAPTER 27: DEVILMAN GHOST

The only time he stops using the ability is when he’s forced out of Satan’s mind by satan himself and even then he’s sent back to the physical world and not hell. Not once did I see anyone say he had a time limit for that ability, if you did see it then can you drop a scan with someone saying that?

It literally says he went into hiding after his forces were wrecked. My entire point is that it's an alternate universe where Akira went into hiding rather than dying.

It’s a possibility that they entered a different universe’s earth after the souls of the dead were sent back to their bodies hence Mazinger z being in that story however you’re getting your information from a character who himself said he didn’t know everything about the info he was sharing. He said that Devilman destroyed humanity after miki died but That’s obviously wrong since the final Chapter Shows otherwise.

“ARE YOU TELLING ME, THAT HE DESTROYED
HUMANITY HIMSELF, AND NOW HE'S DEMANDING THEIR SOULS
BACK!?”

Both of those things are incorrect and you’re basing your claim on a character that admits he’s an unreliable source.

If he died at any point, she definitely would've mentioned it, or at least that what they were talking to was a spirit.

She literally says “At last the final human soul” and “This marks the death of mankind”. Her introduction is literally her monologuing about how everyone on Earth is dead. The story starts with Thanatos collecting the final human soul for her.

They don’t mention him being a spirit because they all Verbally call Akira a demon. Persephone and argos even mention akira possibly being a god. Which is backed up by Vuravas statement in Lady.

If anything, that makes less sense because Satan would've found Akira very easily.

Also, I really don't see how this supports your point, especially since Satan was alive.

Satan was aware of Akira being in hell, it was all part of his plan to Have akira side with him to fight against God.

For a very brief period. He can do it indefinitely in Hades, and he's actually corporeal. Context matters.

Again, Not once did I see character’s mentioning a time limit on that ability. He’s also corporeal in Hell in fact he Gives an explanation on why that is. So what context did I leave out?

They do say he's alive (or something equivocal, anyway). I already gave you the scan.

No, they say that he shouldn’t be able to cross the boundary between The living world and Hell because they thought he was a regular demon. Persephone is visibly shocked by the fact he can do that sort of feat

My guy, he travels to Earth in Devilman vs. Hades anyway. How does this even remotely support your point?

He only travels to Earth AFTER he Destroys the Well of souls not before. Doing so opened up a Dimensional rift between the two universes. It’s already established at this point in the manga That this is the earth after the final battle. My point being that he was sent to Hell after the final battle not hiding on earth.

I didn't ignore it. It just has no relevance to anything.

Explain how it remotely has any relevance to proving Hades canon, or why it punches any sort of hole in my argument?

Medusa, Cerberus, and The titans all reside in hell. Akira says it himself that the Greek god as well gods from other mythologies are real and gives the backstory of the titans. Jun even says “THE KING OF THE GODS, WAS OVERTHROWN IN TURN BY HIS OWN SON, ZEUS, RIGHT?” so if zeus was canonically born in this universe Then Hades would have also been born.

You're just proving yourself wrong. If they're dead and the barrier is broken, how the **** are they still there in Lady?

Hades is able to rebuild the underworld

Ok, then. If we take your inter-franchise scaling as all canon (despite the fact that the same characters existing isn't even proof), then God didn't even make Hell.

How is it not proof? If these characters all from the same author show up in multiple Crossovers, cameo in each others stories, and even have storylines that tie into each other how is it not proof that they all exist within the same universe? Especially When both Devilman and Mazinger Z have established there are many universes that exist within both of their series.

It’s hard to fully understand what being said because of the bad scanlation but Hell was created by God and left under the care of fallen demons because of their closeness to angels. They are Akin to royalty And Enma is the Descendant of Hades himself and Nephew of the King of Hell, Enma

There’s already an established hierarchy in Hell and with its never ending size Hell lords can Govern their own areas. Hades already rules over his own Dimension of chaos and an infinite Void so him creating his own areas within hell or even tampering with it and it’s barriers isn’t far fetched.

If it's the original manga, I could also assist. I read it to make a CRT that went nowhere.

That’d be great but his profile already has His feats From Mazinger infinity and Mazinger zero so I wouldn’t know what to add. Mazinger z the impact exists but it’s a weaker version than the first two. There’s also super robot wars but I don’t know anything about the story to make a make a profile.

 

[ByAsura]

I'll concede to some of these arguments.

That’s true however my point still stands since Dante traveled to The Mao Dante universe through The Dimensional Gap. If you don’t know, that universe existed Before The Devilman manga was written.

In what capacity was that an erased world or a dimensional gap like the one she saw?

It’s mentioned to him, he just doesn’t care. He knows that the world is ruined and he actually made it worse by releasing the souls of the newly Dead but none of it matters to him because he’s on a mission to Revive Miki without fail.

That's not what I mean.

I meant how come he never mentions it in Lady Devilman?

There were scans I was referring to but i accidentally used the link for the whole chapter. I was pointing out that when he died he woke up in Hell. He spent a long time there. DMVH takes place sometime during his time in hell When he was able to locate Miki’s soul. This had to have happened before lady because Jun and Akira **** while flying through hell which means he moved on from Miki by this point. Hades was unable to revive Persephone and Miki on his own. And akira was obviously not going to hear him out. This would make perfect sense as to why Miki never shows up in Lady except in Akira’s flashback to her death. She opens her eyes at the end of DMVH but since it never continues after that we’ll never know what happened directly after.

This still isn't proof of anything, though. You're basically just saying that he wandered Hell.

It also relies on the logic that Akira even found her, or that she'd have gone to Hell in Lady Devilman. Lady Devilman could've easily just moved on because he realised he didn't even have a chance of resurrecting her (something that's not even in his abilities to begin with).

It's just head canon, and I don't really see the need to address it.

There’s no time limit to his ability, and he’s done it multiple times in Lady.

These Chapters all show him doing so:

Ok, but he's still incorporeal on Earth in Devilman Lady, so that really doesn't matter.

The only time he stops using the ability is when he’s forced out of Satan’s mind by satan himself and even then he’s sent back to the physical world and not hell. Not once did I see anyone say he had a time limit for that ability, if you did see it then can you drop a scan with someone saying that?

I was misremembering something.

It’s a possibility that they entered a different universe’s earth after the souls of the dead were sent back to their bodies hence Mazinger z being in that story however you’re getting your information from a character who himself said he didn’t know everything about the info he was sharing.

I'm not forgetting anything. Once again, they would know or mention that Akira died at any point. They don't.

She literally says “At last the final human soul” and “This marks the death of mankind”. Her introduction is literally her monologuing about how everyone on Earth is dead. The story starts with Thanatos collecting the final human soul for her.

Akira is not strictly a human soul after fusing with Amon.

They don’t mention him being a spirit because they all Verbally call Akira a demon. Persephone and argos even mention akira possibly being a god.

They know he's a Devilman while he was in Hell though, so they absolutely would.

Which is backed up by Vuravas statement in Lady.

How?

Again, Not once did I see character’s mentioning a time limit on that ability. He’s also corporeal in Hell in fact he Gives an explanation on why that is. So what context did I leave out?

Not in Hell. Hades Akira is corporeal on Earth, in Lady Devilman, he's a ghost.

No, they say that he shouldn’t be able to cross the boundary between The living world and Hell because they thought he was a regular demon. Persephone is visibly shocked by the fact he can do that sort of feat

He only travels to Earth AFTER he Destroys the Well of souls not before. Doing so opened up a Dimensional rift between the two universes. It’s already established at this point in the manga That this is the earth after the final battle. My point being that he was sent to Hell after the final battle not hiding on earth.

In order to even travel to Hell in the first place and break that dimensional barrier, he'd have to not be in Hell on the first place. So he's on Earth prior to the events of D.v.H, and it also would suggest that he's a living being because souls are automatically in the afterlife. It'd also counter your dimensional rift logic.

Also, that's not how it works. Akira would have needed his intact physical body in order to resurrect on Earth perfectly like Sirene (who was properly resurrected by Hades) did. Simply destroying the Well of Souls wouldn't explain anything.

Medusa, Cerberus, and The titans all reside in hell. Akira says it himself that the Greek god as well gods from other mythologies are real and gives the backstory of the titans. Jun even says “THE KING OF THE GODS, WAS OVERTHROWN IN TURN BY HIS OWN SON, ZEUS, RIGHT?” so if zeus was canonically born in this universe Then Hades would have also been born.

I'm not doubting that Hades and the Greek Pantheon exists. What I was just asking is why wandering Hell and such proves that they're both from the same continuity.

How is it not proof? If these characters all from the same author show up in multiple Crossovers, cameo in each others stories, and even have storylines that tie into each other how is it not proof that they all exist within the same universe?

I said it's not proof that they're the same iterations of each characters. The fact that there's multiple enormous contradictions suggests they aren't part of the original continuity.

Especially When both Devilman and Mazinger Z have established there are many universes that exist within both of their series.

The fact that many universes exist within their series is what I'm getting at, my guy. D.v.H isn't canon to OG Devilman and shouldn't scale to it.

This is like saying Violence Jack is canon and should scale to main continuity Devilman, or that Devilman and Demon Lord Dante's monotheist gods are the same entity when that wouldn't make sense.

For example, Aoi Kurosaki appears in Devilman Grimoire, but she's not the same character as the one from Lady Devilman.

It’s hard to fully understand what being said because of the bad scanlation but Hell was created by God and left under the care of fallen demons because of their closeness to angels. They are Akin to royalty And Enma is the Descendant of Hades himself and Nephew of the King of Hell, Enma

Not the continuity, so it doesn't matter.

Demon Express Delivery is just a sequel to the original series, which doesn't tie in at all with Devilman.

Plus, Mazinger and D.v.H Hades are mechanical gods that were born in an alternate dimension Olympus.

 

[Abscoolguy]

bump

 

[foxhunter]

What do everyone agree on, I think we should add those changes and discuss further with the other stuff it’s pointless to be a stand still with everything when some things are already accepted by most here ?