Devilman CRT tier Upgrade

[ImmortalDread]

Akira had to ascend to a higher dimension to leave hell.

Evidence?

 

[Kingcollapser]

Evidence?

Here

 

[Kingcollapser]

God is strong but not unbeatable. Satan has defeated god already and if he’s saying that Devilman has the power to rival god’s power we should listen since he’d know more than anyone. Plus it’s backed up by a character who’s older than god and even yuki fudo from Devilman saga kills his universe’s god and goes to help the other Devilmen fight their gods. Not fully scaling Devilman to god wouldn’t be fair as there’s already proof he’s on that Level.

Even if you drop the low 1-C statement there’s still minor evidence that suggests hell is possibly 5D. Devilman still scales higher than low 2-C since god has created Multiple universes each with their own space time continuums

Here akira Confirms himself that he can rival satan (Nsfw scan)

 

[Kingcollapser]

In this crt I’ll provide evidence of Devilman being a higher Tier than what Is listed on his Profile “At least 9-B, likely 9-A | At least 7-B, likely High 6-A”

I’ll be Scaling the manga version of the original Akira fudo/Amon specifically, not the other Devilmen from other universes. Aside from the “Devilman” manga there are other manga that take place in the same universe which I’ll also use for evidence.

Wall Level: Casually Destroys a small house with his lasers

Small building Level: Destroys the top part of a Building

City level: Gets hit with this city wide blast and another at point Blank and lives albeit he does take heavy damage

Destroys this city while in hell

Mountain Level: Jinmen (The demon akira is fighting) is big enough to hold an entire town on his back. On the bottom right we’re shown the rest of the city that Jinmen dwarfs in size. After absorbing jinmen’s power he grows larger than he is.

Dwarfs these mountains in size

Melts the pyramids with his aura

Large Mountain level: Tanks this attack from hades

While heavily damaged he survives A “thunder break” from great mazinger. Said thunder break destroys A mountain range

Country level: It’s revealed that Amon Sunk Atlantis off screen

Amon is completely unaffected by all of the worlds nuclear weapons

Devilman being a Devil amongst devils scales above Tengu’s and Dragon’s both of which are able to annihilate Japan in an instant

Multi Continent level: During his Akira’s fight with Satans army Mountains crumbled, lands sunk into the sea The earth shook, and the seas became a pillars of water or evaporated

Planet level: Casually envelopes the world in his aura which “melts it”

Galaxy level: Hades is afraid Devilman could possibly kill him and hades himself (If you lowball him) is galaxy Level shown here but it should be noted he can create a space of infinite blackness and possibly created this realm of chaos that he rules over.

1-C:
I will admit I’m not 100% positive what tier some of these feats belong in so I’m open to discussion about it but below I will list devilman’s universal feats, dimensionality, and most importantly scaling. To understand how it all works I will link the Devilman cosmology here and add details that were missed because it’s necessary for the proper scaling.

As stated in the blog above Hell is a universe in another dimension created by God. It is separated into different layers each blocked off by a dimensional barrier. It’s big enough to contain Oceans, Mountains and volcanos, cities, castles, it’s own sun made of darkness and stars. Hell is guarded by a time slip. which are at least 4Th dimensional spaces that can send you to different time periods as well as other universes that don’t exist anymore shown here and here ( nsfw scan). It’s possible that hell itself is infinite in size since humans were still arriving there after the universe was destroyed after the events of the first Devilman manga. This means it can contain countless people from any universe without an issue. Humans and demons are constantly being killed and revived in hell without overpopulation. It’s also canon that GOD (The god emperor) is stronger than the Greek gods since he defeated the titans and imprisoned them in hell. These same titans defeated the Greek gods forcing them to flee Olympus. If hades can make an infinite space than god can as well. Claude Gillan states that he doesn’t know if hell Is the forth or fifth dimension but if materials from hell exist on earth then it may be assimilated.

God not only created hell but the microcosm itself is his creation and he’s existed before the universe became what it is now. The microcosm doesn’t just include earth and hell but heaven as well and all of the countless universes that exist.

Demons are basically 4th dimensional beings stated here (Nsfw scan) by Enbi-Chan. Akira and another demon perform the same feat. Akira has shown that he can ascend dimensions Here and his final Battle with Satan Was on a higher dimension. He’s also a 4th wall breaker. Not only does he know he’s in a manga but he’s interacted with his own author and has spoken to us the reader. It’s never stated how or why but Akira isn’t effected by the flow of time. He’s able to not onlytravel through time as a soul but he can travel through memories and interfere with significant historical events with no repercussions(The story of shin Devilman is all about that).

Feats and statements:

While in hell Akira No diffs The war god Vurava and tanks an attack that breaks one of hells barriers.
(Vurava doesn’t have many feats but we can scale him to god since he’s existed before the rise of Christianity)

Vurava says that he and Akira posses power equal to God’s

In their second and final battle Amon and Vurava shake Hell

Amon Kills Vurava by decapitation

When Satan reunites with Akira He brings him along to Fight in their first war against god. (Remember that akira couldn’t even beat satan so this shows how much strength he’s gained)

On another journey through hell Akira kills many Greek gods and deity’s.

Destroys The wall of souls by powering up which destroys Hell and it’s barriers

Two characters confirm hell is destroyed here and here

While Amon is in control he tanks this attack from hades and only looses an arm, which he quickly regenerates
(Note: Hades could two shot the same akira who destroyed hell before they’re first fight)

Absorbs Hades godly power

Hades is visibly shaken at Amons boost in power

Defeats Great mazinger which shocks Hades

Devilman absorbs great mazingers engine giving him another boost in power and Great mazingers thunderbolt
(Note: Great mazingers thunderbolt also had the power to destroy hell’s barriers)

Tanks Great mazingers thunder break

Clashes with Hades one last time and they appear even in power

Punches satan and turns the world inside out

Stabs satan in the forehead causing the world to flip upside down

Satan says that The first Amon’s power rivaled god’s and the second Amon was a part of Satans power given life
(Note: Satan defeated god in their first battle)

Does whatever this is, I’m really not sure

Speed feats:

Reacts to this laser not once but twice

Reacts to this photon laser and counter attacks

Uses his mouth beam to shoot himself back to earth

Edit: Feats I left out because they’re from a cross over manga but should be seen

Devilman reacts to this kick from Cyborg 009
(Note: 009 can move ftl without his acceleration device)

Devilman clashes with 009 while he’s accelerating and they destroy this building

Devilman moves faster than 009 can see while 009 is in acceleration mode and kicks him through two buildings

Catches up to 009 and grabs his leg

009 fly’s across the world combing his and Devilman’s power which combines both of their universes

With help i found a blog talking

In this crt I’ll provide evidence of Devilman being a higher Tier than what Is listed on his Profile “At least 9-B, likely 9-A | At least 7-B, likely High 6-A”

I’ll be Scaling the manga version of the original Akira fudo/Amon specifically, not the other Devilmen from other universes. Aside from the “Devilman” manga there are other manga that take place in the same universe which I’ll also use for evidence.

Wall Level: Casually Destroys a small house with his lasers

Small building Level: Destroys the top part of a Building

City level: Gets hit with this city wide blast and another at point Blank and lives albeit he does take heavy damage

Destroys this city while in hell

Mountain Level: Jinmen (The demon akira is fighting) is big enough to hold an entire town on his back. On the bottom right we’re shown the rest of the city that Jinmen dwarfs in size. After absorbing jinmen’s power he grows larger than he is.

Dwarfs these mountains in size

Melts the pyramids with his aura

Large Mountain level: Tanks this attack from hades

While heavily damaged he survives A “thunder break” from great mazinger. Said thunder break destroys A mountain range

Country level: It’s revealed that Amon Sunk Atlantis off screen

Amon is completely unaffected by all of the worlds nuclear weapons

Devilman being a Devil amongst devils scales above Tengu’s and Dragon’s both of which are able to annihilate Japan in an instant

Multi Continent level: During his Akira’s fight with Satans army Mountains crumbled, lands sunk into the sea The earth shook, and the seas became a pillars of water or evaporated

Planet level: Casually envelopes the world in his aura which “melts it”

Galaxy level: Hades is afraid Devilman could possibly kill him and hades himself (If you lowball him) is galaxy Level shown here but it should be noted he can create a space of infinite blackness and possibly created this realm of chaos that he rules over.

1-C:
I will admit I’m not 100% positive what tier some of these feats belong in so I’m open to discussion about it but below I will list devilman’s universal feats, dimensionality, and most importantly scaling. To understand how it all works I will link the Devilman cosmology here and add details that were missed because it’s necessary for the proper scaling.

As stated in the blog above Hell is a universe in another dimension created by God. It is separated into different layers each blocked off by a dimensional barrier. It’s big enough to contain Oceans, Mountains and volcanos, cities, castles, it’s own sun made of darkness and stars. Hell is guarded by a time slip. which are at least 4Th dimensional spaces that can send you to different time periods as well as other universes that don’t exist anymore shown here and here ( nsfw scan). It’s possible that hell itself is infinite in size since humans were still arriving there after the universe was destroyed after the events of the first Devilman manga. This means it can contain countless people from any universe without an issue. Humans and demons are constantly being killed and revived in hell without overpopulation. It’s also canon that GOD (The god emperor) is stronger than the Greek gods since he defeated the titans and imprisoned them in hell. These same titans defeated the Greek gods forcing them to flee Olympus. If hades can make an infinite space than god can as well. Claude Gillan states that he doesn’t know if hell Is the forth or fifth dimension but if materials from hell exist on earth then it may be assimilated.

God not only created hell but the microcosm itself is his creation and he’s existed before the universe became what it is now. The microcosm doesn’t just include earth and hell but heaven as well and all of the countless universes that exist.

Demons are basically 4th dimensional beings stated here (Nsfw scan) by Enbi-Chan. Akira and another demon perform the same feat. Akira has shown that he can ascend dimensions Here and his final Battle with Satan Was on a higher dimension. He’s also a 4th wall breaker. Not only does he know he’s in a manga but he’s interacted with his own author and has spoken to us the reader. It’s never stated how or why but Akira isn’t effected by the flow of time. He’s able to not onlytravel through time as a soul but he can travel through memories and interfere with significant historical events with no repercussions(The story of shin Devilman is all about that).

Feats and statements:

While in hell Akira No diffs The war god Vurava and tanks an attack that breaks one of hells barriers.
(Vurava doesn’t have many feats but we can scale him to god since he’s existed before the rise of Christianity)

Vurava says that he and Akira posses power equal to God’s

In their second and final battle Amon and Vurava shake Hell

Amon Kills Vurava by decapitation

When Satan reunites with Akira He brings him along to Fight in their first war against god. (Remember that akira couldn’t even beat satan so this shows how much strength he’s gained)

On another journey through hell Akira kills many Greek gods and deity’s.

Destroys The wall of souls by powering up which destroys Hell and it’s barriers

Two characters confirm hell is destroyed here and here

While Amon is in control he tanks this attack from hades and only looses an arm, which he quickly regenerates
(Note: Hades could two shot the same akira who destroyed hell before they’re first fight)

Absorbs Hades godly power

Hades is visibly shaken at Amons boost in power

Defeats Great mazinger which shocks Hades

Devilman absorbs great mazingers engine giving him another boost in power and Great mazingers thunderbolt
(Note: Great mazingers thunderbolt also had the power to destroy hell’s barriers)

Tanks Great mazingers thunder break

Clashes with Hades one last time and they appear even in power

Punches satan and turns the world inside out

Stabs satan in the forehead causing the world to flip upside down

Satan says that The first Amon’s power rivaled god’s and the second Amon was a part of Satans power given life
(Note: Satan defeated god in their first battle)

Does whatever this is, I’m really not sure

Speed feats:

Reacts to this laser not once but twice

Reacts to this photon laser and counter attacks

Uses his mouth beam to shoot himself back to earth

Edit: Feats I left out because they’re from a cross over manga but should be seen

Devilman reacts to this kick from Cyborg 009
(Note: 009 can move ftl without his acceleration device)

Devilman clashes with 009 while he’s accelerating and they destroy this building

Devilman moves faster than 009 can see while 009 is in acceleration mode and kicks him through two buildings

Catches up to 009 and grabs his leg

009 fly’s across the world combing his and Devilman’s power which combines both of their universes

With help I found this other CRT on devilman Which goes in depth about hell’s size and dimensionally Here

 

[Kingcollapser]

Does the higher dimensions in the verse have an ontological difference?

Found a post on the wiki that talks about hell’s dimensionality better than I’m able to

 

[Abscoolguy]

Devilman vs Akuto Sai when lol.

I’m not 100% sure but I didn’t know if you’re allowed to link to another crt on another wiki even if I did help find it you might need to copy the proof elements of it into your own CRT or in the comments here.

 

[Catpija]

Disagree

based

 

[Robo432343]

Bump

 

[Robo432343]

Disagree

Cringe

 

[ByAsura]

Half of these aren't even canonical to the original Devilman, and some of this was already removed in the past.

As for the Devilman Army fight, that was god knows how many Devilmen and Satan's entire army.

 

[Robo432343]

Half of these aren't even canonical to the original Devilman, and some of this was already removed in the past.

Yikes

 

[Robo432343]

the scans are VERY nsfw…

 

[ByAsura]

99% of this is also just made up.

Satan literally says this microcosm right after mentioning Earth. So he's referring to Earth.

In Devilman Lady complicates matters because the same variation of Devilman that made this statement admits he doesn't know whether or not God created anything except the Earth. He just speculates that Heaven and Hell are prisons. IIRC, the only references to God making the universe is speculation based on Jungian philosophy/psychology.

Here akira Confirms himself that he can rival satan (Nsfw scan)

This I agree with.

However, it'd only apply to Devilman after his stay in Hell, which explicitly makes them stronger.

Akira has shown that he can ascend dimensions Here and his final Battle with Satan Was on a higher dimension.

Higher dimension is used very liberally to the point where Earth is called a higher-dimension above Hell, and it's outright shown that the war with Satan occurred within the normal universe and damaged Earth. In context, this just refers to the fact that those events occurred within an alternate history.

Vurava says that he and Akira posses power equal to God’s

This is contradicted by the fact that Zennon and Satan's combined form possesses power equal to God.

Plus, the statement was made in Hell, so it's very shaky.

 

[Kingcollapser]

Half of these aren't even canonical to the original Devilman, and some of this was already removed in the past.

As for the Devilman Army fight, that was god knows how many Devilmen and Satan's entire army.

Every one

Half of these aren't even canonical to the original Devilman, and some of this was already removed in the past.

As for the Devilman Army fight, that was god knows how many Devilmen and Satan's entire army.

If you read the top I mentioned that the scans I used aren’t from the original manga. However Go nagai still wrote them himself and added certain events in the canonical timeline. There are only 3 canon Devilman manga but im
Not going to ignore Feats if Nagai himself added them in.

I clicked your link and most of the evidence that you linked is now gone. I can’t check your evidence if it’s not there. I’m specifically referring to satan being compared to god and The cosmology section.

 

[Kingcollapser]

99% of this is also just made up.

Satan literally says this microcosm right after mentioning Earth. So he's referring to Earth.

True. However there’s been proof of Multiple worlds since shin Devilman.“Devilman lady” and “Devilman saga” both take place in other universes God created, and there are several Devilman manga that show us different universes/Dimensions that weren’t in the main story.

In Devilman Lady complicates matters because the same variation of Devilman that made this statement admits he doesn't know whether or not God created anything except the Earth. He just speculates that Heaven and Hell are prisons. IIRC, the only references to God making the universe is speculation based on Jungian philosophy/psychology.

That akira from that scan is talking about History. He didn’t meet god at that point so all he knows about God is from history and his own speculation. In the Link you provided he even admits that, and that ryou would be able to answer questions about heaven and god. He doesn’t speculate that hell is a prison, it literally is. He speculates that heaven may be a prison because it’s the opposite of hell but again he doesn’t actually know that. This is the conversation you’re referencing. It’s held between The two half’s of Satan after he split himself the same satan who is the hand of god and would know Info about him.

However, it'd only apply to Devilman after his stay in Hell, which explicitly makes them stronger.

Absolutely.

Higher dimension is used very liberally to the point where Earth is called a higher-dimension above Hell, and it's outright shown that the war with Satan occurred within the normal universe and damaged Earth. In context, this just refers to the fact that those events occurred within an alternate history.

He literally had to travel through a dimensional barrier to make it to earth. Earth is not a higher dimension but to get to hell you must travel through the the dimensional gap between the two universes. These tunnels are at least 4th dimensional. The only alternate history is that the demons never showed up, every event in human history remained the same however they are confirmed to be two separate worlds. And here akira can’t escape hell without transcending Dimensions

This is contradicted by the fact that Zennon and Satan's combined form possesses power equal to God.

Satan confirms Amon had the power to rival god’s, Akira says he has power to rival satan, and even tho it doesn’t happen in canon Akira fought them both and stalemated them.

Plus, the statement was made in Hell, so it's very shaky.

Not really. The strength of your soul determines how strong you are in hell Which is why Sirene, jinmen, and even jun all got upgrades

 

[ByAsura]

If you read the top I mentioned that the scans I used aren’t from the original manga. However Go nagai still wrote them himself and added certain events in the canonical timeline. There are only 3 canon Devilman manga but im

It's Devilman, Shin Devilman/1 of the side stories (the God Emperor shit is also probably supposed to be canon, but it's straight up contradicted by the manga), Lady Devilman and Devilman Saga.

Not going to ignore Feats if Nagai himself added them in.

By non-canonical, I'm referring to Amon: The Darkside of Devilman and those other works, not Devilman Lady or Shin Devilman.

This is not a composite profile. If you want to add those feats, then make a new profile.

Edit: Nvm. People are already adding feats from that and the non-canonical Neo Devilman stories.

I clicked your link and most of the evidence that you linked is now gone. I can’t check your evidence if it’s not there. I’m specifically referring to satan being compared to god and The cosmology section.

Most of it is still there, or you/I already reposted the scans here. Besides, it was still accepted.

True. However there’s been proof of Multiple worlds since shin Devilman

Different worlds doesn't necessarily mean alternate universes. It's even stated in the next scans that they were just moving through time-space.

.“Devilman lady” and “Devilman saga” both take place in other universes God created, and there are several Devilman manga that show us different universes/Dimensions that weren’t in the main story.

Who says they're alternate universes? Statements and the fact that Devilman can still travel between them merely suggests they're paved on top of the originals after God altered history.

As much as I disagreed with that revision thread, altering part of history alone via sheer power is no longer Low 2-C.

That akira from that scan is talking about History. He didn’t meet god at that point so all he knows about God is from history and his own speculation. In the Link you provided he even admits that, and that ryou would be able to answer questions about heaven and god. He doesn’t speculate that hell is a prison, it literally is. He speculates that heaven may be a prison because it’s the opposite of hell but again he doesn’t actually know that.

Again, that's literally the point I was making. Devilman himself never confirmed what you were trying to suggest his statements did.

This is the conversation you’re referencing. It’s held between The two half’s of Satan after he split himself the same satan who is the hand of god and would know Info about him.

I know that, but it's irrelevant because Satan's knowledge was completely sealed (barring transformation) by that point in the series.

He literally had to travel through a dimensional barrier to make it to earth. Earth is not a higher dimension but to get to hell you must travel through the the dimensional gap between the two universes.

You're misunderstanding me. My entire point was that 'higher dimension' =/= qualitatively superior. I also never claimed that Hell wasn't separate (it's even stated that it has its own flow of time).

On this note, Hell has to explicitly be universe sized for this to be Low 2-C.

These tunnels are at least 4th dimensional.

Those are completely different situations. In Shin Devilman, they weren't travelling from Earth to Hell, they were travelling through the Earth's timeline.

Satan confirms Amon had the power to rival god’s, Akira says he has power to rival satan, and even tho it doesn’t happen in canon Akira fought them both and stalemated them.

Again, another non-canonical scan, and one that's directly contradicted by the original work.

Not really. The strength of your soul determines how strong you are in hell Which is why Sirene, jinmen, and even jun all got upgrades

Soul =/= physical strength in the real world. They literally say strength of spirit as well, and that will is strength, so I really don't know what to tell you.

 

[Kingcollapser]

It's Devilman, Shin Devilman/1 of the side stories (the God Emperor shit is also probably supposed to be canon, but it's straight up contradicted by the manga), Lady Devilman and Devilman Saga.

By non-canonical, I'm referring to Amon: The Darkside of Devilman and those other works, not Devilman Lady or Shin Devilman.

I’m aware of what’s canon and what’s not, I’ve read most of not all Devilman manga ever the obscure ones. That’s why I didn’t mention things from Violence Jack or Devilman G etc etc. I’m only using the side stories/other Manga with connected lore because they are tied directly into the story by Go himself.

Akuma kishi (The prequel to Devilman) is very wonky when it comes to the lore but it is at least partly cannon since Amon’s armor is not only inherited by Yuki Fudo in Devilman saga but that same version of Amon from Akuma kishi appears in Saga. In Devilman lady it’s referenced directly.

By non-canonical, I'm referring to Amon: The Darkside of Devilman and those other works, not Devilman Lady or Shin Devilman.

This is not a composite profile. If you want to add those feats, then make a new profile.

Edit: Nvm. People are already adding feats from that and the non-canonical Neo Devilman stories.

Most of it is still there, or you/I already reposted the scans here. Besides, it was still accepted.

The only scans I could see were the ones where Satan fights god. When I clicked the other links they didn’t work at all so I’m not sure what scans I reposted. I’m referring to specific links, you were talking about other things from the anime etc and I ignored that because I’m talking about the manga version of akira specifically.

Different worlds doesn't necessarily mean alternate universes.

That is true however Akira, jun, Dante, yuda and Vurava (in the scan you dropped btw) use “world” when referring to a universe So the same logic can be used for shin Devilman’s other “Worlds”.

It's even stated in the next scans that they were just moving through time-space.

Moving through Time-Space while passing other worlds, Dante does the same thing in his travel to hell. He not only passes through earths prehistoric history but also to the universe From Mao Dante. IRL Mao Dante was created before The Devilman manga so him being in Devilman lady Must mean his universe is one of the many that existed.

Who says they're alternate universes?

Akira basically said it here with his bonsai tree analogy. Jun calls Akira’s universe a vanished world. this physical world and this universe.

Statements and the fact that Devilman can still travel between them merely suggests they're paved on top of the originals after God altered history.

Hell Is confirmed to exist alongside Earth but never interacts with it since it is in another dimension, so I wouldn’t say that they are paved on top of each other. In saga’s ending Yuki fudo travels to other universes after killing the God of his universe but unfortunately I’m unable to get the raw scans so I’m going to link where I got this info here.

As much as I disagreed with that revision thread, altering part of history alone via sheer power is no longer Low 2-C.

I didn’t mention this as a feat but even if it isn’t low 2-c God would still be at least low 2-C for creating a universe as big as hell.

Again, that's literally the point I was making. Devilman himself never confirmed what you were trying to suggest his statements did.

He only speculated about heaven NOT hell. He traveled through hell for what is implied to be a long time. The only thing he really speculates is that heaven must be a prison light like hell is a prison of darkness. It’s a figure of speechhe’s not dropping any lore.

I know that, but it's irrelevant because Satan's knowledge was completely sealed (barring transformation) by that point in the series.

Not completely. Lan Asuka was born with Satan’s godly power. She was the secret mastermind behind the scenes. When Akira traveled into her mind he got removed by force.

You're misunderstanding me. My entire point was that 'higher dimension' =/= qualitatively superior. I also never claimed that Hell wasn't separate (it's even stated that it has its own flow of time).

On this note, Hell has to explicitly be universe sized for this to be Low 2-C.

It is. It’s stated multiple times in the story that hell is a universe. It has layers to it and even has its own sun + stars.

Those are completely different situations. In Shin Devilman, they weren't travelling from Earth to Hell, they were travelling through the Earth's timeline.

True. But both act in the same manor. They’re both distortions in time.

Again, another non-canonical scan, and one that's directly contradicted by the original work.

It’s not contradictory at all. Akira got stronger in hell, so much so that he could Now rival satan. The akira from the original was obviously weaker than the akira in the sequel.
Satan even tells akira he must be different and asks for his help to fight god.

Soul =/= physical strength in the real world. They literally say strength of spirit as well, and that will is strength, so I really don't know what to tell you.

The strength of your soul is what gives you power in hell. It doesn’t have to be physical strength specifically. Jun was able to create psychic barriers in hell which was something she couldn’t do beforehand.

 

[ByAsura]

That’s why I didn’t mention things from Violence Jack or Devilman G etc etc. I’m only using the side stories/other Manga with connected lore because they are tied directly into the story by Go himself.

Tied with Go himself =/= canon. By this logic, one of the stories written by Go himself in Neo Devilman, set in a universe where humans are furries and Sirene-Kaim is still alive, is canon.

Amon: The Dark Side of Devilman literally shows events that occurred in Devilman but completely differently, like Miki's parents dying together rather than Devilman having last words with her father.

It's in the process of getting removed.

Akuma kishi (The prequel to Devilman) is very wonky when it comes to the lore but it is at least partly cannon since Amon’s armor is not only inherited by Yuki Fudo in Devilman saga but that same version of Amon from Akuma kishi appears in Saga.

That doesn't mean it's canon. You can repurpose the look of armour. Plus, that was after history was overturned.

That is true however Akira, jun, Dante, yuda and Vurava(in the scan you dropped btw) use “world” when referring to a universe So the same logic can be used for shin Devilman’s other “Worlds”.

Moving through Time-Space while passing other worlds, Dante does the same thing in his travel to hell. He not only passes through earths prehistoric history but also to the universe From Mao Dante. IRL Mao Dante was created before The Devilman manga so him being in Devilman lady Must mean his universe is one of the many that existed.

I didn’t mention this as a feat but even if it isn’t low 2-c God would still be at least low 2-C for creating a universe as big as hell.

You know what? Fine, I can accept this.

Akira basically said it here with his bonsai tree analogy. Jun calls Akira’s universe a vanished world. this physical world and this universe.

Your scans don't suggest that. They just suggest that Hell isn't the physical world, and that Akira's world was vanished from history.

Hell Is confirmed to exist alongside Earth but never interacts with it since it is in another dimension, so I wouldn’t say that they are paved on top of each other.

I didn't say Hell, I said Akira's timeline was paved over by Jun's timeline.

True. But both act in the same manor. They’re both distortions in time.

Proof of that? Satan is just travelling through all of time space, not a distortion that brings him to a different point.

It’s not contradictory at all.

It's completely contradictory. I'm saying Satan himself, whom Devilman grew to rival, is weaker than God. So Devilman is immaterial to this.

However, Satan fused with Zennon wouldn't increase their power infinitely (we see with Kaim and Sirene that it's exponential, but not astoundingly massive). So Low 2-C is fine, I guess.

Akira got stronger in hell, so much so that he could Now rival satan. The akira from the original was obviously weaker than the akira in the sequel.

Darkside is not a sequel. This is set at a time very soon after Miki's death, so Devilman didn't even have this level of power.

The strength of your soul is what gives you power in hell. It doesn’t have to be physical strength specifically. Jun was able to shoot lasers in hell which was something she couldn’t do beforehand.

Coupled with my scans where it says will, I think this supports my point if anything.

 

[Kingcollapser]

Tied with Go himself =/= canon. By this logic, one of the stories written by Go himself in Neo Devilman, set in a universe where humans are furries and Sirene-Kaim is still alive, is canon.

Amon: The Dark Side of Devilman literally shows events that occurred in Devilman but completely differently, like Miki's parents dying together rather than Devilman having last words with her father.

It's in the process of getting removed.

That doesn't mean it's canon. You can repurpose the look of armour. Plus, that was after history was overturned.


You know what? Fine, I can accept this.

Your scans don't suggest that. They just suggest that Hell isn't the physical world, and that Akira's world was vanished from history.

I didn't say Hell, I said Akira's timeline was paved over by Jun's timeline.

Proof of that? Satan is just travelling through all of time space, not a distortion that brings him to a different point.

It's completely contradictory. I'm saying Satan himself, whom Devilman grew to rival, is weaker than God. So Devilman is immaterial to this.

However, Satan fused with Zennon wouldn't increase their power infinitely (we see with Kaim and Sirene that it's exponential, but not astoundingly massive). So Low 2-C is fine, I guess.

Darkside is not a sequel. This is set at a time very soon after Miki's death, so Devilman didn't even have this level of power.

Coupled with my scans where it says will, I think this supports my point if anything.

I accidentally posted my reply before dropping the links. My reply is now edited with scans.

 

[ByAsura]

The scans don't really change anything, tbh.

Anyway, like I said Satan is vastly inferior to God in canon, but I think Low 2-C for being part of the Demon Lord is reasonable.

 

[foxhunter]

Shouldn’t this be enough to upgrade them to high 3-A to low 2-C, I’m unsure of low 1-C because devilman throw around higher dimensions a lot perhaps possible, but I don’t think there’s strong enough support for it outside them saying higher dimension, but I don’t mind I agree with everything else

 

[Kingcollapser]

Shouldn’t this be enough to upgrade them to high 3-A to low 2-C, I’m unsure of low 1-C because devilman throw around higher dimensions a lot perhaps possible, but I don’t think there’s strong enough support for it outside them saying higher dimension, but I don’t mind I agree with everything else

Well Dm already has 3-A and 2-C feats. Though higher dimensions is thrown around there is some evidence that’s support it.

 

[foxhunter]

Well Dm already has 3-A and 2-C feats. Though higher dimensions is thrown around there is some evidence that’s support it.

You should ask for mod support and try to imply the changes

 

[Kingcollapser]

You should ask for mod support and try to imply the changes

I didn’t know I could do that is there a list i can look at?

 

[foxhunter]

VS Battles Staff

Antvasima AKM sama DontTalkDT DarkDragonMedeus Mr. Bambu Just a Random Butler Agnaa Celestial Pegasus Andytrenom Wokistan Ultima Reality Elizhaa Qawsedf234 ByAsura Sir Ovens Damage3245 Starter Pack Abstractions LordGriffin1000 Colonel Krukov SamanPatou GyroNutz Firestorm808 Everything12 Maverick...

vsbattles.fandom.com

I didn’t know I could do that is there a list i can look at?

 

[Kingcollapser]

VS Battles Staff

Antvasima AKM sama DontTalkDT DarkDragonMedeus Mr. Bambu Just a Random Butler Agnaa Celestial Pegasus Andytrenom Wokistan Ultima Reality Elizhaa Qawsedf234 ByAsura Sir Ovens Damage3245 Starter Pack Abstractions LordGriffin1000 Colonel Krukov SamanPatou GyroNutz Firestorm808 Everything12 Maverick...

vsbattles.fandom.com

Bless

 

[Kingcollapser]

In this crt I’ll provide evidence of Devilman being a higher Tier than what Is listed on his Profile “At least 9-B, likely 9-A | At least 7-B, likely High 6-A”

I’ll be Scaling the manga version of the original Akira fudo/Amon specifically, not the other Devilmen from other universes. Aside from the “Devilman” manga there are other manga that take place in the same universe which I’ll also use for evidence.

Edit: Violence Jack feats

I’ve added Devilman’s Feats from the manga Violence Jack. The events take place directly after The ending of the original Devilman and though it isn’t the official sequel Go Nagai Himself has confirmed that his works are connected

Though He/They go by the name Violence Jack it’s revealed at thrthat this is indeed the same Akira fudo from the original.

The rules do acknowledge other author works being secondary canon.

---

Wall Level: Casually Destroys a small house with his lasers

Small building Level: Destroys the top part of a Building

Can Cause earthquakes just by Walking

City level: Gets hit with this city wide blast and another at point Blank and lives albeit he does take heavy damage

Destroys this city while in hell

Mountain Level: Jinmen (The demon akira is fighting) is big enough to hold an entire town on his back. On the bottom right we’re shown the rest of the city that Jinmen dwarfs in size. After absorbing jinmen’s power he grows larger than he is.

Dwarfs these mountains in size

Melts the pyramids with his aura

Large Mountain level: Tanks this attack from hades

While heavily damaged he survives A “thunder break” from great mazinger. Said thunder break destroys A mountain range

Country level: It’s revealed that Amon Sunk Atlantis off screen

Amon is completely unaffected by all of the worlds nuclear weapons

Devilman being a Devil amongst devils scales above Tengu’s and Dragon’s both of which are able to annihilate Japan in an instant

Multi Continent level: During his Akira’s fight with Satans army Mountains crumbled, lands sunk into the sea The earth shook, and the seas became a pillars of water or evaporated

Planet level: Casually envelopes the world in his aura which “melts it”

Galaxy level: Hades is afraid Devilman could possibly kill him and hades himself (If you lowball him) is galaxy Level shown here but it should be noted he can create a space of infinite blackness and possibly created this realm of chaos that he rules over.

Universal level: Female Jack states that Satan reincarnated her (and the other two jack’s, there are 3) with power that rivals his. Satan created the universe of kanto after god reset earth back to the beginning of time.

Jack simply existing was the primary reason why satan couldn’t control the universe he created.

All 3 Jacks merged together were strong enough to fight both Satan and xenon by himself and overpowered them.
(Xenon is another form of Satan and king of demons so they should be somewhat comparable in strength)

---

I will admit I’m not 100% positive what tier some of these feats belong in so I’m open to discussion about it but below I will list devilman’s universal feats, dimensionality, and most importantly scaling. To understand how it all works I will link the Devilman cosmology here and add details that were missed because it’s necessary for the proper scaling.

As stated in the blog above Hell is a universe in another dimension created by God. It is separated into different layers each blocked off by a dimensional barrier. It’s big enough to contain Oceans, Mountains and volcanos, cities, castles, a sun made of darkness, a sun made of light, and stars

Hell is guarded by a time slip/Gap in time. which are possibly 4Th dimensional spaces that can send you to different time periods as well as other universes that don’t exist anymore shown here and here ( nsfw scan).

It’s possible that hell itself is infinite in size since humans were still arriving there after the universe was destroyed. Humans and demons are constantly being killed and revived in hell without overpopulation. If it’s not infinite it’s at least bigger than a normal universe due to its dimensionality and the ability to grow its size. Claude Gillian( A Scientist from Devilman saga)
states that he doesn’t know if hell Is the forth or fifth dimension but if materials from hell exist on earth then it may be assimilated. These materials from Hell are what the Demon armors are made of. Claude may not know which dimension hell is however there is minor evidence that supports it being a 5th dimensional space.

Demons are basically 4th dimensional beings stated here (Nsfw scan) by Enpi-Chan. Akira and another demon perform the same feat. Akira has shown that he can ascend dimensions Here and his final Battle with Satan Was on a higher dimension.

The god emperor is stronger than the Greek gods since he defeated the titans and imprisoned them in hell. These same titans defeated the Greek gods forcing them to flee Olympus. If hades can make an infinite space than god can as well.

God not only created hell but the microcosm itself is his creation and he’s existed before the universe became what it is now. The microcosm doesn’t just include earth and hell but heaven as well and all of the countless universes that exist. In gekiman, satan says universe instead of microcosm but nothing really changes because the statement is true either way. Satan also said “god blew life into This small remote universe” which is more confirmation that there are other universes god is in control of. And just to solidify my point here are scans showing that in the context of that story “worlds” is interchangeable with “universe”. (Nsfw scan)There are many examples of characters saying world when they are referring to an established universe.

More Feats and statements:

While in hell Akira No diffs The war god Vurava and tanks an attack that breaks one of hells barriers.
(Vurava doesn’t have many feats but we can scale him to god since he’s existed before the rise of Christianity)

Vurava says that he and Akira posses power equal to God’s

In their second and final battle Amon and Vurava shake Hell

Amon Kills Vurava by decapitation

When Satan reunites with Akira He brings him along to Fight in their first war against god. (Remember that akira couldn’t even beat satan so this shows how much strength he’s gained)

On another journey through hell Akira kills many Greek gods and deity’s.

Destroys The wall of souls by powering up which destroys Hell and it’s barriers

Two characters confirm hell is destroyed here and here

While Amon is in control he tanks this attack from hades and only looses an arm, which he quickly regenerates
(Note: Hades could two shot the same akira who destroyed hell before they’re first fight)

Absorbs Hades godly power

Hades is visibly shaken at Amons boost in power

Defeats Great mazinger which shocks Hades

Devilman absorbs great mazingers engine giving him another boost in power and Great mazingers thunderbolt
(Note: Great mazingers thunderbolt also had the power to destroy hell’s barriers)

Tanks Great mazingers thunder break

Clashes with Hades one last time and they appear even in power

Punches satan and turns the world inside out

Stabs satan in the forehead causing the world to flip upside down

Satan says that The first Amon’s power rivaled god’s and the second Amon was a part of Satans power given life
(Note: Satan defeated god in their first battle)

Does whatever this is, I’m really not sure

He’s also a 4th wall breaker. Not only does he know he’s in a manga but he’s interacted with his own author and has spoken to us the reader.

It’s never stated how or why but Akira isn’t effected by the flow of time. He’s able to not only travel through time as a soul but he can travel through memories and interfere with significant historical events with no repercussions(The story of shin Devilman is all about that).

Speed feats:

Reacts to this laser not once but twice

Reacts to this photon laser and counter attacks

Uses his mouth beam to shoot himself back to earth

---

Edit: Feats I left out because they’re from a cross over manga but should be seen for scaling reasons

Devilman reacts to this kick from Cyborg 009
(Note: 009 can move ftl without his acceleration device)

Devilman clashes with 009 while he’s accelerating and they destroy this building

Devilman moves faster than 009 can see while 009 is in acceleration mode and kicks him through two buildings

Catches up to 009 and grabs his leg

2-C Feat: 009 fly’s across the world combing his and Devilman’s power which combines both of their universes.

Bump

 

[Omnificence]

I've made a blog attempting to re-explain the cosmology of the Devilman franchise here. Not sure if there's anything from here I can add to it.

 

[Kingcollapser]

I've made a blog attempting to re-explain the cosmology of the Devilman franchise here. Not sure if there's anything from here I can add to it.

This is helpful, I already had it saved beforehand just in case. I was thinking of adding a blog about the composite cosmology.

 

[Abscoolguy]

I keep my agree vote

 

[ByAsura]

do you need me to unlock some of the profiles?

and remember not to add the non-canonical justifications

 

[Kingcollapser]

do you need me to unlock some of the profiles?

and remember not to add the non-canonical justifications

That would be great. I'd only add things left out of his current profile, I won't touch his tier. As for the secondary canon, i still believe that it should be included since it follows the rules. I've already provided proof that they should be included and there's even more I can find.

 

[foxhunter]

Why not touch his tier why wouldn’t this make him or satan universal ?

 

[Kingcollapser]

Why not touch his tier why wouldn’t this make him or satan universal

They'd both be at least low 2-C but I want there to be an agreed decesion before anyhing is changed. I still think i provied evidence for a low 1-C argument but I won't be satisfied until enough people can agree on it.

 

[foxhunter]

I believe everyone agreed to universal, can you show me who didn't agree to it? I think it's pretty clear so it's a bit pointless to not add, however if you want more discussion that's fine just tag more people to engage in the page

 

[Kingcollapser]

I believe everyone agreed to universal, can you show me who didn't agree to it? I think it's pretty clear so it's a bit pointless to not add, however if you want more discussion that's fine just tag more people to engage in the page

Well i that added recently so i'm sure many people didn't see it, i'll keep lookinf for more people to tag.

 

[ByAsura]

That would be great. I'd only add things left out of his current profile, I won't touch his tier.

Just so we're on the same page

Low 2-C Zennon and Satan, with a Low 2-C Hell key for Devilman?

As for the secondary canon, i still believe that it should be included since it follows the rules.

It's not secondary canon, it's blatantly non-canon. Besides, normal Devilman doesn't even scale to it anyway since that power was suppressed.

I've already provided proof that they should be included and there's even more I can find.

You didn't really provide any proof except for that Devilman Sidestory (which isn't Darkside), and even that can quite easily be explained away. On the other hand, I provided explanations for why it directly contradicts the events of Devilman, like sections of the story where it repeats similar events but completely alters them and has elements that simply don't gel with the original.

 

[foxhunter]

Just so we're on the same page

Low 2-C Zennon and Satan, with a Low 2-C Hell key for Devilman?

It's not secondary canon, it's blatantly non-canon. Besides, normal Devilman doesn't even scale to it anyway since that power was suppressed.

You didn't really provide any proof except for that Devilman Sidestory (which isn't Darkside), and even that can quite easily be explained away. On the other hand, I provided explanations for why it directly contradicts the events of Devilman, like sections of the story where it repeats similar events but completely alters them and has elements that simply don't gel with the original.

Why don't you just make the changes ?

 

[ByAsura]

I would, but I assume Kingcollapser has some specific ideas about what they want to change in mind.

 

[foxhunter]

Ah I see, just double check and change what should be change I say, and then we can discuss more and then close the thread