Regarding Flashes durability

[Confluctor]

Stronger than COIE? Sure. Right now? No. He was being weakened. Unquantifiably weaker than before.

Oh, and Wally didn't actually beat his armour properly either. As you can see in the scans, the armor was shattered when everyone shot at him. He just used that to his advantage and sorta broke it down further.

On top of attacking the joints, it looks like Wally is using duraneg. In the fourth scan or so, if you look at the bottom left panel, there is no impact when he goes through his armor but only when he comes out of it. Seems like he is damaging it from the within

 

[Emirp sumitpo]

Somewhat unrelated, but is there a scan or statement of Barry and Wally pulling in the entire speed force during Flash War? Because I can't find such a statement for that

 

[Confluctor]

Don't think there is one tbf. It comes under their emotional part?

 

[Emirp sumitpo]

Only thing I could find was

The alternative future Flash used the Speed and Still Force to collapse Hypertime[16])

But like, I don't think that tells us anything?

 

[Confluctor]

Wait a effing minute. That's not an alternate reality version at all. That's a "fake" one created by the World Forger. And their words should never be taken at face value, even if they did the feat. Especially with World Forger being so involved with them.

 

[Emirp sumitpo]

So it shouldn't be used at all

I guess it could be formatted like this

Varies. At least 9-B, up to 4-B, far higher at his peak. Possibly 3-A to High 3-A Environmental Destruction at the Speed of Light. Low 1-C Enironmental Destruction at his peak

Or for something more cohesive, we could get separate keys: Rebirth | Flash War

Varies. At least 9-B, up to 4-B, Possibly 3-A to High 3-A Environmental Destruction | Varies. At least 9-B, up to At least 4-B. Low 1-C Environmental Destruction

 

[Da_Lunge_Fish]

Stronger than COIE? Sure. Right now? No. He was being weakened. Unquantifiably weaker than before.

Oh, and Wally didn't actually beat his armour properly either. As you can see in the scans, the armor was shattered when everyone shot at him. He just used that to his advantage and sorta broke it down further.

On top of attacking the joints, it looks like Wally is using duraneg. In the fourth scan or so, if you look at the bottom left panel, there is no impact when he goes through his armor but only when he comes out of it. Seems like he is damaging it from the within

He was weakened by Dr. Light, but he still mopped the floor with Pre Crisis heroes. Which is what Wally can scale to, as the pre crisis heroes manage to damage monitor after he amps them

 

[Da_Lunge_Fish]

And in several other points where Wally runs through Monitor, impact is seen from both sides.

 

[Confluctor]

A bit hard to tell if that's entry or out, doesn't make it too clear.

But in any case, it's still a weakened af armor. As you can see in the scan before, it's damaged heavily. So there is no way he scales to AM. Especially since no pre crisis hero fought him after the third scan where his armor gets heavily damaged.

 

[Da_Lunge_Fish]

A bit hard to tell if that's entry or out, doesn't make it too clear.

But in any case, it's still a weakened af armor. As you can see in the scan before, it's damaged heavily. So there is no way he scales to AM. Especially since no pre crisis hero fought him after the third scan where his armor gets heavily damaged.

Nothing indicates it's that heavily damaged. In fact, he falls, the heroes celebrate, then AM stands up, apparently unphased

 

[Emirp sumitpo]

So it shouldn't be used at all

I guess it could be formatted like this


Or for something more cohesive, we could get separate keys: Rebirth | Flash War

Bumping this

 

[Antvasima]

No clue. Only thing I know is that fish is the only one who wants to keep their Dura and ap.

Well, if he has no staff support or even support at all, we should obviously not apply his suggested solutions.

 

[Confluctor]

Nothing indicates it's that heavily damaged. In fact, he falls, the heroes celebrate, then AM stands up, apparently unphased

See like the third scan... his armour seems pretty battered up. But as I said, it's also vague how flash is attack. Seems like duraneg thing to me ¯\(ツ)/¯

But I would appreciate some other opinions on the Anti Monitor stuff from others.

Bumping this

Not really opposed to it tbh

 

[Emirp sumitpo]

Not really opposed to it tbh

Which do you prefer? I prefer option 1.

 

[Confluctor]

Option 1

 

[Antvasima]

If somebody explains everything that currently needs to be evaluated here in a single post, I can send a notification to knowledgeable members afterwards to ask for further input.

 

[Confluctor]

Since dura and SS stuff are pretty much agreed upon, let's talk about ap


Weakened AM


4-B

ED sort of thing. Well... maybe not ED, but definitely nothing related to physicals

Same as above

So it shouldn't be used at all

I guess it could be formatted like this


Or for something more cohesive, we could get separate keys: Rebirth | Flash War

These two

 

[Antvasima]

That is not at all a sufficiently elaborate explanation for members who have not very closely followed this thread and remember it well already.

 

[Confluctor]

I gave summary of this like 3 different times... But basically, the feats they have on their files are more or less ED and not applicable to their AP physically.

The only one that can possibly scale to his physicals is the AM one, which is dubious.

 

[Antvasima]

Okay. Perhaps you can quote your previous explanation posts then?

 

[Confluctor]

1. https://2.bp.blogspot.com/-VtB8XbPwUOQ/Vnu74rhfUBI/AAAAAAAAAXw/5HhehaI8d_s/s0-Ic42/RCO012.jpg
2. https://2.bp.blogspot.com/-rNKMRIErKL4/Vnu75DxhBhI/AAAAAAAAAX4/dOthrCQzWm0/s0-Ic42/RCO013.jpg
3. https://2.bp.blogspot.com/-dwkCK4EI8Ok/Vnu75SWm44I/AAAAAAAAAX8/nhmdMu0etqA/s0-Ic42/RCO014.jpg
4. https://2.bp.blogspot.com/-WwFHE8NuNc0/Vnu75qTOBLI/AAAAAAAAAXw/tsZCYyrJNio/s0-Ic42/RCO015.jpg
5. https://2.bp.blogspot.com/-w2fLKdX3Lr4/Vnu75sa7keI/AAAAAAAAAXw/PoVQ7m4Imxs/s0-Ic42/RCO016.jpg
6. https://2.bp.blogspot.com/-5qpSpYLTECo/Vnu758DEyKI/AAAAAAAAAXw/KE9byNY7u_M/s0-Ic42/RCO017.jpg

Flash 87 #150

This is the only thing that needs discussing, that's all really. This is the only feat of Flashes that even remotely comes close to tier 2.

My arguments against this feat are;

1. AM was weakened, as shown clearly in the scan
2. His armour is shown to be destroyed in many parts already before Flash even gets there
3. The way the Flash moves implies he duranegged him and nothing that can scale to his physicals

I will let Da_Lunge_Fish drop his arguments. But the way I see it, his only argument is that in some places, it is implied he attacks the armour from the outside (scan 5), and as such, should scale to his physicals

 

[Emirp sumitpo]

I'll give more detailed explanations for the new replacement ratings for the rebirth flashes in a bit

 

[Emirp sumitpo]

BTW, is Barry and Wally destroying the force barrier an AP feat?

 

[Confluctor]

BTW, is Barry and Wally destroying the force barrier an AP feat?

Can I see scan?

 

[Emirp sumitpo]

Can I see scan?

 

[Emirp sumitpo]

BTW, I have problems with the justification of Hunter's and Wally's 4-B ratings. Could I post it here or put it somewhere else?

 

[Confluctor]

That's hard to convert to AP, especially for anything physicals

BTW, I have problems with the justification of Hunter's and Wally's 4-B ratings. Could I post it here or put it somewhere else?

Go ahead. Let's fix all of them at once

 

[Emirp sumitpo]

That's hard to convert to AP, especially for anything physicals

So that's a no?

Go ahead. Let's fix all of them at once

Ok. The reasons are simple

Wally was already at running at his peak when he broke through Hal's shield, meaning this feat would only apply to Wally at his peak and not him normally.

Hunter had the strength force and sage force at his disposal already when he incapacitated Supes and the gang, so this feat cannot apply to Hunter's base self.

Hunter's normal self should imply be Unknown or 4-B via scaling to his Post Crisis counterpart. As much as I hate it, his regular form has no feats at all, and all his feats in rebirth was when he had the forces at his disposal.

I'm not sure to rate Wally as I haven't read a lot of Wally stuff, and the stuff I have read I forgot, but I will try find new stuff for him. At the very least, he should probably be at least comparable or superior to Barry, considering Wally is treated as the superior Flash

 

[Confluctor]

I would say ap feats and stuff wise, Wally and Barry should pretty much be the same.

 

[Emirp sumitpo]

Wally upscales from his post crisis self at the very least

 

[Antvasima]

1. https://2.bp.blogspot.com/-VtB8XbPwUOQ/Vnu74rhfUBI/AAAAAAAAAXw/5HhehaI8d_s/s0-Ic42/RCO012.jpg
2. https://2.bp.blogspot.com/-rNKMRIErKL4/Vnu75DxhBhI/AAAAAAAAAX4/dOthrCQzWm0/s0-Ic42/RCO013.jpg
3. https://2.bp.blogspot.com/-dwkCK4EI8Ok/Vnu75SWm44I/AAAAAAAAAX8/nhmdMu0etqA/s0-Ic42/RCO014.jpg
4. https://2.bp.blogspot.com/-WwFHE8NuNc0/Vnu75qTOBLI/AAAAAAAAAXw/tsZCYyrJNio/s0-Ic42/RCO015.jpg
5. https://2.bp.blogspot.com/-w2fLKdX3Lr4/Vnu75sa7keI/AAAAAAAAAXw/PoVQ7m4Imxs/s0-Ic42/RCO016.jpg
6. https://2.bp.blogspot.com/-5qpSpYLTECo/Vnu758DEyKI/AAAAAAAAAXw/KE9byNY7u_M/s0-Ic42/RCO017.jpg

Flash 87 #150

This is the only thing that needs discussing, that's all really. This is the only feat of Flashes that even remotely comes close to tier 2.

My arguments against this feat are;

1. AM was weakened, as shown clearly in the scan
2. His armour is shown to be destroyed in many parts already before Flash even gets there
3. The way the Flash moves implies he duranegged him and nothing that can scale to his physicals

I will let Da_Lunge_Fish drop his arguments. But the way I see it, his only argument is that in some places, it is implied he attacks the armour from the outside (scan 5), and as such, should scale to his physicals

@Eficiente @Qawsedf234 @SuperAPM @Firestorm808 @EmperorRorepme @Ehnkr2beboh @Deagonx @Elizio33 @LordTracer @Planck69 @MarvelFanatic119 @catzlaflame @Armorchompy @Kulf_Boba @LephyrTheRevanchist @Alonik @The_Impress @Sandman31 @Matthew_Schroeder @Zensum @Spinosaurus75DinosaurFan @Hykuu @KingEzran @CrimsonStarFallen @Dark-Carioca @Amelia_Lonelyheart @Kerfuffles2

Would any of you be willing to help out here please?

 

[Qawsedf234]

Would any of you be willing to help out here please?

If its just juding the rating them I'm with Confluctor here. Wally going full blast doesn't really scale to his durability. Its all speed force based power increase and hax.

 

[Eficiente]

I'm agreeing with Confluctor here too.

 

[Antvasima]

Thank you for the evaluations. I suppose that Confluctor's accepted suggestions are probably fine to apply then, but we should preferably wait a bit to see if we receive responses from any other members that I sent a notification to as well.

 

[Confluctor]

Bump

 

[Antvasima]

Given how many people that I sent notifications to, I would have expected more responses. I suppose that we might have to apply what has been accepted here so far soon, in lack of better options.

 

[Confluctor]

Suppose. If they have issues, a new crt can always be made.

 

[Antvasima]

Yes, that is true.

 

[Emirp sumitpo]

For Wally, should we list him as "(Should be comparable if not superior to Barry. Superior to his Post-Crisis self)" until we get new feats for him?

 

[Confluctor]

For Wally, should we list him as "(Should be comparable if not superior to Barry. Superior to his Post-Crisis self)" until we get new feats for him?

Yes