The fact that you can't visualize someone breaking two bricks by slamming their hand through them, without immediately assuming it was the punch, kind of proves my point tbh.
Is that in reference to my revised version of your analogy? Are you trying to word this as in I can't comprehend it, or in cases where there isn't any illustrations and thus something can't be visualized?
In the case of Garou, we see him charging into the ground and there is never an indication that it switched from that to lifting. Saying that it must be lifting because he kept pushing is like saying a punch is only ever just AP if they stop the moment they hit the surface of the object they want to punch.
I'd draw the line when someone punches something, and the thing goes flying. If someone charges at something with their fist out, hits let's say (for an example) a giant box, and continued to run forward, pushing the box with their fist, I very much think that would be considered lifting strength. Unsure about the wiki, which is why I hope staff will clarify on that. If what I'm hearing from the opposing side is true, i.e. he slammed into the ground initially and then continued to push into the ground to which a continent shifted, then it does seem like a legitimate lifting strength feat.
My claim is that since there is no indication of the impact ever stopping, so we shouldn't make assumptions on what is or isn't LS. Since we can't make assumptions, we can't determine LS
It doesn't matter if the "impact" never stopped. What matter is if Garou at any point began pushing into the ground. If at any point he started pushing into the ground, it could become a Lifting Strength feat. If he merely punched the ground, and the continent went flying outwards (Not literally flying), that would simply be an AP feat, not LS. But if what I'm hearing is true (Garou slammed into the ground, and proceeded to push into it) lifting strength could very easily be warranted.
Impact also isn't a very good word to use. Literally any feat that involves pushing involves "impact", which is defined as "the action of one object coming forcibly into contact with another."
You impact an object you push when you press your hands against it to move it. That would invalidate most feats involving pushing despite it being a fully applicable method to derive lifting strength from.
Maybe I should read the chapter to give my own opinion instead of trying to defend both sides and give my thoughts on the feat.
I claim one feat, because I can't prove anything, they claim two without proving anything. If one of those two isn't far simpler than the other than I rly don't know.
Might have to reword that a bit. This sentence left me more confused than anything. No offense of course.
Not as strict as they should be.
Won't delve into that since it gets into more unrelated subjective territory.
Two wrongs don't make a right
I don't recall stating it did. I merely brought up an example feat that involved an "impact" and asked if it was valid. If it was valid, that would mean feats involving "impact" can be used to deduce lifting strength.
Let's assume a car rolling down a street, moving at 2m/s. If you now push it, your arms arms must have been moving at the same speed as the car (2m/s). If your hands hit the surface of the car at a greater speed than that, you hit the car, rather than just pushing it, meaning you'd have to subtract that additional energy from the result.
The implication here is if you're not pushing/moving an object at the same speed as the object was moving, it's not lifting strength? Correct me if I'm wrong about that.
This would imply all pushing feats where the object was stationary before someone pushed against it is an AP feat, not a lifting strength feat. As far as "Lifting strength" would apply in real life, punching and pushing are almost identical, the difference being is brief and typically done with a fist, whilst punching is normally done over an extended time, usually with a palm. Of course, I know vs wiki is strict in this regard, which is fair. However, if Garo struck the ground, and continued to move, and the continued movement is what caused the continent to shift, lifting strength seems perfectly arguable. If it was
solely the initial strike that caused the continent to shift (As in the moment he made contact with the ground), then I agree with you, it can't be used to dictate LS.
Edit: Did you mean if the car was moving in the same direction you're pushing it, or against you?
If an object is already moving, the force you require to keep it like that is vastly lower than what you need to get it to that speed. In the case of the car it'd be the force of friction/drag. This calc however assumes it's equal to accelerating it to that point which isn't proven anywhere.
You'd need to prove the initial impact gave the shifted continent
any movement at all for this argument to work. If so, then I can agree with you. If we don't see the continent move at all from the initial impact with the ground, then getting lifting strength from it seems relatively fine.
