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Garou Lifting Strength Calc Discussion

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TheRustyOne said:
This was something I somewhat explained above, but I'll go into more clear detail now.

It doesn't matter. Because the wave is continuous and formed from pushing. You must provide evidence that this "shockwave" came from a singular impact, and isn't being constantly generated by his constant pushing. Prove the "shockwave" he is forming is singular and not a constant wave going through the planet.

Note: Saying everything in between should be affected is not an argument. This is fiction, Garou can't performed this feat not matter what. He'd just fly straight through the Earth if his AP really was Low 5-B+. Fiction can do whatever the hell it wants, and we need to try and make sense of it as much as we can. If someone punched the ground in order to cause a shockwave which destroyed something on the other side, that is still an AP feat despite how absurd it is. Same is true for LS feats as well.

He is pushing and we see a wave to come out from his origin point. Since this energy comes from him pushing into the ground, and not from a strike like a punch. This scales to his lifting strength, since this is a continuous motion and not a singular impact. The wave didn't exist for a single moment, it's constantly being applied.

If this was done via a single impact, the land mass wouldn't gradually rise like it's shown to. It would rise up violently and quickly as all of that energy would've hit it by the time it reached the other side. But that isn't the case, it rises up slowly and takes 15 seconds (calc timeframe). It wouldn't do that unless Garou was constantly applying this force, as we see he is doing in the later panels. There is no reason to assume this was done via impact without providing evidence, not speculation.

I'm rather bad at debating, so I hope I'm being clear. It being a wave doesn't matter, since this wave is continuous and formed by a continuous motion that is called pushing. To argue against what is shown to use, you must provide evidence that the wave wasn't formed from his pushing motion but by his impact. And I've already explained why I'm against that up above.

Then we later find out Garou didn't make the bulge, it was God doing something.
Click to expand...
Try putting your hands on a wall then push and tell me if there was any shockwaves from just pushing🤔
Now punch the wall really hard and there will be shockwaves that can be felt in sections away from where you punched the wall also see a doctor your hand is bleeding

Shockwaves will never come from just pushing it is strictly impacts.
And yes tap the surface of a still water once, you will see multiple ripples spread out continuously, waves also work that way. A single impact can show multiple ripples. So your entire argument holds no weight as those are drawings of shockwaves.
Note: Saying everything in between should be affected is not an argument. This is fiction, Garou can't performed this feat not matter what. He'd just fly straight through the Earth if his AP really was Low 5-B+. Fiction can do whatever the hell it wants, and we need to try and make sense of it as much as we can. If someone punched the ground in order to cause a shockwave which destroyed something on the other side, that is still an AP feat despite how absurd it is. Same is true for LS feats as well.
Click to expand...
Nobody said everything should be affected, not once I don’t see where you are seeing that.
And nobody said the Shockwaves won’t qualify for AP, I am saying it won’t qualify for LS
And yes this is fiction but still you can pick and choose which ever science works with our fictitious explanation while removing anyone which does not, the most important thing is finding a confluence which is why you don’t see people High3A for everyone with FTL and many more examples.
TheRustyOne said:
I'm rather bad at debating, so I hope I'm being clear.
Click to expand...
You are being clear it’s just your explanation is wrong in this scenario
 
Pain_to12 said:
Try putting your hands on a wall then push and tell me if there was any shockwaves from just pushing🤔
Click to expand...
Your entire rebuttal falls apart here. First off if you couldn't tell by reading, I don't agree it is a shockwave. Just a showing of how Garou's force flowing through the planet. Any form of motion will produce energy that travels through an object, but fiction doesn't care about such things and will not be accurate.

Unless you have evidence proving this is a shockwave formed from impact?

You are incorrect as you've yet to provide evidence against my points. It seems like you cannot, that is why you ignored it. Garou is producing a pushing motion and please explain with facts how his pushing motion wasn't the cause and how it can only be impact. Remember, fiction doesn't care about what should happen.

The wave coming from Garou isn't a realistic shockwave, it is just something made from his pushing that affects the other side of the planet. Provide evidence against this and we'll have an actual debate. But for now I don't see how anything you say holds any water.

Provide evidence, none of you have done so. Burden of Proof falls on you, since everything Garou has done is a result of his constant push. Provide evidence that this wave cannot be made by his push and only by his impact. Despite the actual showing in the chapter contradicting you.

We see the wave is constantly coming from his center point, though like I said it isn't a shockwave that was why I had it in quotation marks. It is a way of showing his force traveling through the planet as he pushes Saitama into the ground. Now provide evidence that this was formed only by his impact and nothing else.
 
I really don't feel like I explain myself well. The main point is to provide evidence that the rising of the plate was done via impact and not pushing. I've only seen speculation and assumptions. Such as calling that a singular shockwave, and not just a demonstration of his force moving through the planet.

Since pushing does indeed flow through an object, any action to an object flows through it. I don't know why you bring up a wall, the energy of a push does indeed go through it and reach the other side. However what Garou is doing doesn't follow the laws of physics, as it wouldn't travel like that.

My main point is that the wave Garou is making is not singular, but is constantly flowing out from where he is pushing. As that is what is shown, nothing suggest this is a singular impact moment and no one has provided such proof against it. Your reasoning about the wall not only doesn't make sense, but is factually incorrect.

Energy will travel through the wall, not in the way Garou is shown to do as it doesn't follow any law of physics at all. Calling it a shockwave and make it part of physics is absurd. Garou is pushing and the other side of the planet pushes out in time with his pushing. Unless you can provide evidence his pushing did nothing and only his impact did that. Despite the visuals disagreeing, at least that is how I see it.
 
I agree with Rusty, and so does 90% of the people here. Like I said earlier, there is no point in arguing this. We have already moved on to which would go on Garou's page.

If there is literally no other issue than the one that the majority disagreed on, I believe there's no reason for us not to use the Class Y Calc.

Please start voting from the given options.

'Class Z (Moved multiple kilometers of the Earth's Crust while pushing Saitama through a mountain)'

'Class Y (Generated shockwaves from pushing Saitama downwards that lifted up a landmass from the other side of the Earth)'

'Class Z, possibly Class Y'

'Class Z, possibly higher (Performed this feat. It's unknown whether the shockwaves generated were caused by the initial impact, or by the continuous push)'
 
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TheRustyOne said:
Your entire rebuttal falls apart here. First off if you couldn't tell by reading, I don't agree it is a shockwave. Just a showing of how Garou's force flowing through the planet. Any form of motion will produce energy that travels through an object, but fiction doesn't care about such things and will not be accurate.
Click to expand...
So you are saying the ripples drawn are Murata drawing the force going through earth and not shockwaves?
TheRustyOne said:
Unless you have evidence proving this is a shockwave formed from impact?

You are incorrect as you've yet to provide evidence against my points. It seems like you cannot, that is why you ignored it. Garou is producing a pushing motion and please explain with facts how his pushing motion wasn't the cause and how it can only be impact. Remember, fiction doesn't care about what should happen.
Click to expand...
I don’t need to youbare the only claming a standard drawing of ripples is not instead a drawing of shockwaves but another force instead. So please stop making claims and start saying why
TheRustyOne said:
The wave coming from Garou isn't a realistic shockwave, it is just something made from his pushing that affects the other side of the planet. Provide evidence against this and we'll have an actual debate. But for now I don't see how anything you say holds any water.
Click to expand...
More like from the impact of hitting the earth after pushing saitama down
Try running through a door
TheRustyOne said:
Provide evidence, none of you have done so. Burden of Proof falls on you, since everything Garou has done is a result of his constant push. Provide evidence that this wave cannot be made by his push and only by his impact. Despite the actual showing in the chapter contradicting you.
Click to expand...
Except the only thing we saw was a push, thrusters, impact, ripples
We didn’t see anymore of those your said constant pushing

We see the wave is constantly coming from his center point, though like I said it isn't a shockwave that was why I had it in quotation marks. It is a way of showing his force traveling through the planet as he pushes Saitama into the ground. Now provide evidence that this was formed only by his impact and nothing else.
Click to expand...
Though like I said “your head canon”
A ripple drawn is a showing of shockwaves
Prove it is otherwise this time. Don’t just make claims
TheRustyOne said:
I really don't feel like I explain myself well. The main point is to provide evidence that the rising of the plate was done via impact and not pushing. I've only seen speculation and assumptions. Such as calling that a singular shockwave, and not just a demonstration of his force moving through the planet.
Click to expand...
With all respect, Pick up a physics textbook or just do a search or something
Shockwaves are not singular even from a single impact, it has ripple like effect
TheRustyOne said:
Since pushing does indeed flow through an object, any action to an object flows through it. I don't know why you bring up a wall, the energy of a push does indeed go through it and reach the other side. However what Garou is doing doesn't follow the laws of physics, as it wouldn't travel like that.
Click to expand...
If Garou does not follow the law of physics why are you trying to Use physics to justify his feat??

TheRustyOne said:
My main point is that the wave Garou is making is not singular, but is constantly flowing out from where he is pushing. As that is what is shown, nothing suggest this is a singular impact moment and no one has provided such proof against it. Your reasoning about the wall not only doesn't make sense, but is factually incorrect.
Click to expand...
It is actually right pushing a wall won’t make any shockwaves
But punching it will, and if your punch cause the part you punched to cave in, what did you think caused that?
TheRustyOne said:
Energy will travel through the wall, not in the way Garou is shown to do as it doesn't follow any law of physics at all. Calling it a shockwave and make it part of physics is absurd. Garou is pushing and the other side of the planet pushes out in time with his pushing. Unless you can provide evidence his pushing did nothing and only his impact did that. Despite the visuals disagreeing, at least that is how I see it.
Click to expand...
If he doesn’t follow the law of physics don’t use physics to calculate it or justify it.
It must still be bound by some physics


And I feel like I should bold this out since I feel like you keep missing it
No one ever said the pushing did not cause anything, I said we saw an impact from the tackle then a standard drawing of wave, a force is usually and always depicted with arrow signs.
And yes if the AP is enough the shockwaves moves things
That’s why you can see shockwaves from bombs moving building and heavy objects.

Don’t get me wrong I get your interpretation and it’s actually valid 100%, so is mine
Both takes some aspects of physics while leaving another. And yes I am not bias to think mine is a better interpretation
 
Kachon123 said:
I agree with Rusty, and so does 90% of the people here. Like I said earlier, there is no point in arguing this. We have already moved on to which would go on Garou's page.

If there is literally no other issue than the one that the majority disagreed on, I believe there's no reason for us not to use the Class Y Calc.

Please start voting from the given options.

'Class Z (Moved multiple kilometers of the Earth's Crust while pushing Saitama through a mountain)'

'Class Y (Generated shockwaves from pushing Saitama downwards that lifted up a landmass from the other side of the Earth)'

'Class Z, possibly Class Y'

'Class Z, possibly higher (Performed this feat. It's unknown wether the shockwaves generated were caused by the initial impact, or by the continuous push)'
Click to expand...
Option 4
 
Obviously I vote Option 2, as I believe that fits well enough. All of his motions are pushing, and the fictional wave he created has also shown the properties of something being pushed and not thrown up via impact. So that indeed fit for lifting strength for me.

However if this argument truly had a 100% obvious answer this debate wouldn't exist in the first place. I will not argue against the response above as I've already said everything I needed, and nothing said there disproved anything to me. It would be a waste of our time to just repeat that we disagree without anything changing.

If I cannot convince someone with what I've written above, it simply means we are at an impasse as I'm insufficient at persuading. So going for a vote is good idea just to settle this. It'd be foolish to continue the debate in this manner. I'd be disrespectful of me to continue arguing the same points, and instead could lead to bad feeling between users.

Now all I can do is wait to see what the majority thinks. Regardless if people disagree with me, I'll respect the wishes of what is chosen here without argument.

Unless someone comes in with a massive knowledge bomb to make me or someone else look very stupid.
 
I was going to ask why Class Y is bigger than Z if Z comes after it.

But I'm fine with whatever result is picked. I personally favor Option 3.
 
Yeah, this can be closed. The Class Z calc is the only one we can use now, and it's the one that's already on Garou's page. This was uselss.

Damn you Murata.
 
And everything I wrote down was utterly pointless. Well I had a feeling it would be, since I mentioned God could've been responsible for the feat.

But I wasn't expecting this.
 
So lemme get this straight, Class Z is the only good thing out of this?

What happens to the AP?
 
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