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STRONGEST One-Punch Man Discussion Thread!

The fact that Saitama one shot a demon doesn't show his actual power, who knows, he may be able to one shot dragons at that point and we have reasons to believe that (Audiobook). Two characters can be massively different from another in terms of power and one shot the same target. For example Flashy Flash and Tatsumaki can one shot Gouketsu, that doesn't make them comparable

We should keep later-training Saitama feats only to himself unless some explicit scaling, if we don't know his exact level why would we scale to half the cast and put our stats on doubt ? That seems desperation more than accuracy

Also fully agree with RinneItachi
 
UeTa said:
In Power or "Velocity"?

I'll ask because I know that refraction index can cause light to bend, slow down and lose lots of velocity.

And that's a "bright beam of light" doesn't hold any power. But It does hold momentum. Light in itself doesn't produce nor carry energy, but the laser does. (Hence why their velocity is lower)

Light in a vacuum : 299 792 458 m / s (1 c)
Light in Earth's atmosphere : 299 702 547 m / s (99.97% c)
Light in water : 225 317 952 m / s (75.15% c)
Laser (man-made in a vacuum) : 299 790 000 m / s (99.99918% c)

This video explains simply and quickly :
Click to expand...

I've asked about these, but ByAsura said it's a different kind of light.
 
DbzDB2 said:
The past several chapters were written by Murata, not ONE
Click to expand...
Unless I'm missing something, no, they weren't.

Murata makes suggestions, and adds his own details in illustrations (one of the parts of being an illustrator), but the only chapters he himself actually has a big influence on story-wise are the redraws. ONE is and always has been the writer for the main and continuing OPM story.
 
Sec said:
I've asked about these, but ByAsura said it's a different kind of light.
Click to expand...
No. Somebody else said that, and I showed even that didn't work.
Cryo123 said:
We have caused the bright beam of light that we see to curve up to like 60 degrees, but it's possible to have a larger angle bend. It drops off in power like 60% or something, and on a physics level the light isn't bending, but internal refraction is being used to create the bending effect.
Click to expand...
Light can appear to bend, but it doesn't actually bend, it diffracts. It's an optical illusion that gives this appearance. G4's lasers do bend physically bend because they're shown tracking Genos. Not only that, but it's to a far greater degree than what's possible in real life.

Also, where's a medium for G4 to even bend light? Is he using unstated gravitational lensing that also creates non-continuous beams?
 
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ByAsura said:
Light can appear to bend, but it doesn't actually bend, it diffracts.
Click to expand...
It is hypothetically still capable of burning holes in things, the paper says as much. It just loses some of it's energy.
ByAsura said:
G4's lasers do bend physically bend because they're shown tracking Genos. Not only that, but it's to a far greater degree than what's possible in real life.
Click to expand...
The study said they could technically get it to go 360 degrees. Your point?
ByAsura said:
Also, where's a medium for G4 to even bend light? Is he using unstated gravitational lensing that also creates non-continuous beams?
Click to expand...
He doesn't need a medium for what I'm talking about, but if you want one, Genos explicitly talks about creating a large amount of steam to mess with the laser.
 
Cryo123 said:
It is hypothetically still capable of burning holes in things, the paper says as much. It just loses some of it's energy.
Click to expand...
Not what I said. What I was saying is that the behaviour of G4's beams can't be explained away by diffraction.
Cryo123 said:
The study said they could technically get it to go 360 degrees. Your point?
Click to expand...
What study? You need to cite your sources so I can get some context. Also, even if that were 'technically' possible, light-waves themselves will fall short of 90 degrees because they can't reverse back on themselves, though it can appear greater due to geometry (I believe slit experiments are a good example of this).
Cryo123 said:
He doesn't need a medium for what I'm talking about, but if you want one, Genos explicitly talks about creating a large amount of steam to mess with the laser.
Click to expand...
Yes he does. That's literally how the effect you're talking about works. His lasers bend to impossible angles without steam involved, and even curve while far away from G4.
 
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ByAsura said:
Not what I said. What I was saying is that the behaviour of G4's beams can't be explained away by diffraction.
Click to expand...
Here's the study and here's a summary of it. It seems the light has only managed to effectively be bent at 60 degrees. At that point though, I don't really remember his lasers being inconsistent with the paper.
ByAsura said:
That's literally how the effect you're talking about works.
Click to expand...
Nope. We are not talking about the same thing at all.
ByAsura said:
His lasers bend to impossible angles without diffraction involved, and even curve while far away from G4.
Click to expand...
The phenomenon I'm speaking of can bend away from the original source.
 
Cryo123 said:
Here's the study and here's a summary of it. It seems the light has only managed to effectively be bent at 60 degrees.
Click to expand...
It's good because I've already addressed this in the past (not to say I actually agree with the wiki's light rules completely). Airy beams don't work like that, they're not one singular beam like each of G4's bending beams, they propagate outwards and don't behave like the optical effect suggests. I've also heard the diffraction effect doesn't even last very long and doesn't look like that, but I could be wrong.
Cryo123 said:
At that point though, I don't really remember his lasers being inconsistent with the paper.
Click to expand...
They consistently surpass both 60 and 90 degrees and don't use thousands of pin-point lenses.
Cryo123 said:
Nope. We are not talking about the same thing at all. The phenomenon I'm speaking of can bend away from the original source.
Click to expand...
This one is somewhat fair, but it still doesn't occur in the way you're describing.
 
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Sec said:
It look Like this or this ? It was like he was able to manipulate certain particles of a laser to bend. even in air
Click to expand...
ByAsura said:
It doesn't look like either of those, and that's just laser reflection. It's not homing lasers that outright curve towards targets at far larger angles.

Again, this is stuff that relies on very, very specific parameters to work.
Click to expand...
Sec said:
I don't mean that,It was like Airy beam not a normal laser. laser beam traveling through the air can bend slightly if certain components are asymmetrical. I mean He can even control how asymmetrical of laser.
Click to expand...
ByAsura said:
Airy beams aren't even consistent with what G4 uses.

Also, IIRC, they don't really diffract normally. G4's beams are shown to diffract.
Click to expand...
ByAsura said:
No. Somebody else said that, and I showed even that didn't work.
Click to expand...
 
Saitama's feat is performed after he removed his Limiter and started growing bald (Unlike what Saitama's monologue to Carnage Kabuto and Genus might suggest, the lost of hair and gain of strength wasn't instantaneous, it just started to become noticeable one year after he started his training).

The only other characters in One Punch Man who perform feats in the Relativistic Range or higher are:
  • The Ninja Duo
  • Flashy Flash
  • Platinum Sperm
  • Garou
  • Meteoric Burst Boros
Of these, three are speedster ninjas, one's an ultimate fusion between 54 trillion monsters, one's Boros and the last one is Garou, who at this point has also seemingly broken his limiter and experienced exponential power growth.

There is NOTHING that proves it but it is highly likely that Saitama at this point is like... High Dragon in strength at least, but it's impossible to tell since every creature's Limiter is different and Saitama has no feats to give us a suggestion. I wouldn't be surprised if this Saitama was like as strong as the Garou who stomped Darkshine if not the Garou who beat Platinum Sperm, but again, it's impossible to tell.

Also, I wouldn't put any stock into Saitama resisting Tatsumaki's Psychokinesis in the Audio Drama, because:

1) Tatsumaki likely wasn't going all out. This is made obvious by several factors, least of all is the Ghost House remaining intact when she tries to stop and move Saitama. More importantly, the entire gag of the Audio is that Tatsumaki has a childish fear of ghosts, and so she wouldn't be in a proper mindset to fight. Also, Fubuki's dialogue during Tatsumaki's fight against Psykos strongly suggests that she never used that much power in a fight ever before.

2) As revealed in the Webcomic, you can resist Psychokinesis if you have sufficient willpower. Which people like Saitama and Garou have. This has not been revealed in the Manga yet but since the Audio Drama was written way before the two continuities got so dramatically different as to be irreconcilable, it doubtlessly applies to it too.

3) It contradicts the Primary Source. Again, this is a ******* Audio Drama released as promotional material for Season 1 of the Anime. It's hardly the most authoritative piece of One Punch Man Media. And it's depiction of Tatsumaki being completely incapable of moving / pushing a balding Saitama who was still in training goes completely against the Saitama vs Tatsumaki fight in the webcomic, where a wounded Tatsumaki is actually able to push current Saitama around a little bit, even when he tries to ground himself against the floor. Contrast that with the Audio Drama, where Saitama wasn't even aware of what was going on in the scene.
 
1) That was what I thought at first but as I said earlier, it is already stated that Saitama surpasses Tatsumaki's powers by Tatsumaki herself. And she tries to use her powers directly on Saitama. There is no reason why something would happen to the ghost house. And Tatsumaki having a fear of ghosts doesn't change a thing since it doesn't mean we can dismiss the rest of it.

2) That logic doesn't make sense. Webcomic was written first yet a lot of things change. It doesn't matter if audiobooks were written during early OPM. And while I severely doubt that the willpower thing will be excluded in the manga, one of the main points of the audiobook is Saitama > Tatsumaki.

3) Again, we don't use the webcomic. And during the scene where wounded Tatsumaki pushes Saitama, there were two other factors. First of all, the ground was destroyed. Secondly, Saitama was caught off guard by his jacket being destroyed. Besides that, what you say implies that Tatsumaki could actually do something against trying Saitama in a normal situation which is simply absurd. And when it comes to the audiobook, Saitama's line implies that Tatsumaki tries to crush him, not move him around.
 
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ByAsura said:
It's good because I've already addressed this in the past (not to say I actually agree with the wiki's light rules completely). Airy beams don't work like that, they're not one singular beam like each of G4's bending beams, they propagate outwards and don't behave like the optical effect suggests.
Click to expand...
I don't think you've linked the same study, it has different authors and the figures shown are somewhat different. The figure shown in my article only has one singular beam. I'm inclined to think they're different, if they're not, I'll just take this massive L.
ByAsura said:
They consistently surpass both 60 and 90 degrees and don't use thousands of pin-point lenses.
Click to expand...
Oh boy, can't wait to go measure each and every laser to see if it surpasses these values lol.
I mean wouldn't those lenses be inside of his arm? Or are you saying that they need glass lenses along their path? Again, I can't read the full sudy because it's behind a paywall, so I can't really know.
ByAsura said:
This one is somewhat fair, but it still doesn't occur in the way you're describing.
Click to expand...
Mission passed, + respect lol.
 
Cryo123 said:
I don't think you've linked the same study, it has different authors and the figures shown are somewhat different. The figure shown in my article only has one singular beam. I'm inclined to think they're different, if they're not, I'll just take this massive L.
Click to expand...
They weren't the same study, and that wasn't my intention. I was showing different studies and articles from the same experiment and same type of laser system/beam.
Cryo123 said:
Oh boy, can't wait to go measure each and every laser to see if it surpasses these values lol.
Click to expand...
I got 110 degrees for a few, 90-ish for others, etc.
Cryo123 said:
I mean wouldn't those lenses be inside of his arm? Or are you saying that they need glass lenses along their path? Again, I can't read the full sudy because it's behind a paywall, so I can't really know.
Click to expand...
You can see lenses on his head and shoulders that produce beams capable of bending in the exact same manner, so the ones on his arm are immaterial.

Wasn't blocked for me, but the details were pretty sparse on the type of laser system (spatial light modulator) they used. That's why I had to use different sources for my opening point.

Edit: To clarify, the details were so sparse that I actually got the name from the article rather than the study.
Cryo123 said:
Mission passed, + respect lol.
Click to expand...
I want to note (and have said this in the past many times) that I agree the lasers should be SoL. I just disagree with your methodology.
 
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ByAsura said:
They weren't the same study, and that wasn't my intention. I was showing different studies and articles from the same experiment and same type of laser system/beam.
Click to expand...
Ah. Same pehnomenon. That's what I suspected. Thanks for the extra source.
ByAsura said:
I got 110 degrees for a few, 90-ish for others, etc.
Click to expand...
Thank you for your sacrifice of time.
ByAsura said:
Wasn't blocked for me, but the details were pretty sparse on the type of laser system (spatial light modulator) they used. That's why I had to use different sources for my opening point.
Click to expand...
I was talking about the study I linked, I just kind of assumed this one would be locked too like most others. Cool that I'll actually be able to read it.
ByAsura said:
I want to note (and have said this in the past many times) that I agree the lasers should be SoL. I just disagree with your methodology.
Click to expand...
That's cool. It's always good to call out bad arguments, even if you agree with the conclusion/are in the same camp. Everyone's a little smarter in the end. Do you have any suggestions that would allow the lasers to be Sol?

I think the fact that physics in OPM is explicitly different from IRL physics is something to note. For example, general relativity does not seem to be a thing. The only reason it's so hard to reach Sol to FTL speeds is because of friction as opposed to the increase in mass caused by moving at such speeds, so trying to apply our light doesn't bend rule could flat out be wrong.
 
If I find any, I'll be sure to let you know.

I think the rules overall should take intent and obvious knowledge of physics into account. I'll give two examples of what I mean.

- Gunbuster (a universe with time dilation via relativistic travel, an established universal light-speed limit, relative coherence to its own and our laws of physics, etc) lasers seem to bend and create explosions, but this is a universe where cancelling inertia/the roche limit and black hole creation is possible. The lasers in-universe are described as optical weapons, show reflection, have an explicitly separate pulse effect, travel faster than ships capable of moving at large fractions of the speed of light, etc. But the light rules wouldn't allow that.

- Homeless Emperor fires 'mysterious light orbs' that don't follow even the remotest properties of light, like producing explosions similar to thermobaric weaponry. This is in the same vein as saying all laser cannons in fiction must be SoL. Unless stated, this should not be light-speed even if what he's firing is made of photons.
 
277350377_3086412358299298_7680585132839814382_n.jpg

Saitama Drip
 
From the current way we calculate black hole feats (comparing it to the sun's GBE), I'd say obliterating it. But I'll have to check.
 
For Aldebaran, which is dozens of times larger than our sun but only a little more massive, I got a far lower value for destroying it than turning it into a black hole.
 
ByAsura said:
For Aldebaran, which is dozens of times larger than our sun but only a little more massive, I got a far lower value for destroying it than turning it into a black hole.
Click to expand...
The issue is for supermassive Red Giants, you won't need to fully compress the matter, it will do most of the work for you.
 
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