3-A DBS manga upgrade.

[Vietthai96]

Shockwaves can pass through dimensional barriers.

Lol i can't sleep lol, let me sleep
Again we if use visual too literal using your logic, two universes was shown to be very close, so by all mean if the shockwave pass through the dimensional, it will strike the other universe, but again nothing indicated that. So.....................can we end it here..................................

 

[Kulf_Boba]

well, there is still distance between Earth and the dimensional wall, so you can assume any number on that distance, visual is just for reference and scaling, observable universe size is a safe assumption

So it is not correct to assume the radius of the observable universe for that distance.

 

[God900]

So it is not correct to assume the radius of the observable universe for that distance.

Again we if use visual too literal using your logic, two universes was shown to be very close, so by all mean if the shockwave pass through the dimensional, it will strike the other universe, but again nothing indicated that. So.....................can we end it here..................................

Yes, but again distance is Subjective.

You can be very far from the center, but that doesn't flatout mean you are near the dimensional walls of the Universe.
And again, the map you got there is just a model. Just a reference for scaling.

That's all.

 

[Vietthai96]

So it is not correct to assume the radius of the observable universe for that distance.

nothing is perfectly correct, observable universe radius is a safest assumption, as it is not too small or too big. If it is too small then like i said, Goku and Beerus shockwave and the Explosion Ball will strike other universe through dimensional wall, if it is too big we have issue due to having no proof and it will inflate the calc result, so observable universe radius is the best we can choose, as it is real life number, and at least a safe number. You can't have everything perfect, unless you expect Toriyama to be a scientist genius who draw manga ^^. Anyway sleep

 

[XVII]

Well then, how would you put the Observable Universe on the Map of the Macrocosm?


Would the distance represented here from Earth to the Edge of the Universe be 46.508 billion light years?

idk if it helps but

it takes exactly 4.90 seconds between when kami's ship takes off and when it gets to jupiter. jupiter is anywhere from 365 million miles to 601 million miles away from earth at any time, depending on where it is in its orbit. thus, kami's ship can travel anywhere from 74,489,796 miles per second to 122,653,061 miles per second. since light travels 186,282 miles per second, Kami's ship is 399.88-658.43 times faster than light.

it took bulma and company 34 days to get to namek. assuming it was exactly 34 days, this would make namek anywhere from 37.22 light-years away to 61.29 light-years away, with an average distance of 49.26 light-years from earth.

so, since namek is closer to the center, we can calculate it from there i guess

 

[Kulf_Boba]

Lol i can't sleep lol, let me sleep

Nobody stops you from going to sleep.

Again we if use visual too literal using your logic

How my logic?
I'm just asking if they assumed that distance represents 46.508 million light years.

two universes was shown to be very close

Can I see where this is coming from?

so by all mean if the shockwave pass through the dimensional

It is that the shock wave already crosses the dimensional barrier and manages to reach the Kaioshin Realm.

it will strike the other universe, but again nothing indicated that.

Why would it hit the other universe if the distance from one universe to another is unknown in the manga?

 

[God900]

Can I see where this is coming from?

Why would it hit the other universe if the distance from one universe to another is unknown in the manga?

Anime and manga follow the same model for the Universe structure, both equal to the one from the Daizenshu.

Also, the distance:

 

[Kulf_Boba]

nothing is perfectly correct, observable universe radius is a safest assumption, as it is not too small or too big. If it is too small then like i said, Goku and Beerus shockwave and the Explosion Ball will strike other universe through dimensional wall, if it is too big we have issue due to having no proof and it will inflate the calc result, so observable universe radius is the best we can choose, as it is real life number, and at least a safe number. You can't have everything perfect, unless you expect Toriyama to be a scientist genius who draw manga ^^. Anyway sleep

You haven't yet given any logical reasoning for assuming that the distance from DB Earth to the end of the universe is 46.508 million light years.

 

[God900]

You haven't yet given any logical reasoning for assuming that the distance from DB Earth to the end of the universe is 46.508 million light years.

Then what's your pruporsal make the DB universe small???

Or bigger with a inflated result?...

Your point is the one that doesn't make sense, becouse following your logic the U7 would be even smaller than ours and that's a big NO.

Please stop stonewalling.

We should go by the safest option.

 

[Kulf_Boba]

Anime and manga follow the same model for the Universe structure, both equal to the one from the Daizenshu.

Also, the distance:

If you take that as a literal representation of 100 ÷, DB Universe is 3-C and the macrocosm map cannot be used.

Was this distance depicted in the manga? I remember that the macrocosm of universe 10 was shown and there was no other nearby

 

[God900]

If you take that as a literal representation of 100 ÷, DB Universe is 3-C and the macrocosm map cannot be used.

Was this distance depicted in the manga? I remember that the macrocosm of universe 6 was shown and there was no other nearby

That's why, what's your point??? Those are just visuals of the living universe from the Anime.

That's why we can't take visuals literally.

What's your reasoning of assuming that the Earth is at the end of the universe???, Next to the dimensional walls???
Nothing.......at this point you are just Stone walling.
You are just trying to give us down our throats your own interpretation taking a visual of a Universe literally, which is meant to be a reference for scaling.

Friend you do not understand anything, tell me when I told you that the EARTH of Dragon Ball is in the center of the universe.

Copy and paste:

But in the Observable Universe, the Earth is in the center, and if we assume that DB's universe is the same as ours, you can't put it on the edge.

 

[Kulf_Boba]

Then what's your pruporsal make the DB universe small???

LOL

Or bigger with a inflated result?...

Your point is the one that doesn't make sense, becouse following your logic the U7 would be even smaller than ours and that's a big NO.

Why following "my logic" the DB universe would be smaller, could you explain it?

Please stop stonewalling.

Why obstruct? we are discussing something important that was raised about DB Universe.

The one that continues to obstruct is you who do not understand and keep saying that I say that the earth is in the center of the universe DB xD

We should go by the safest option.

And what would it be in your opinion?

 

[God900]

If you take that as a literal representation of 100 ÷, DB Universe is 3-C and the macrocosm map cannot be used.

Was this distance depicted in the manga? I remember that the macrocosm of universe 6 was shown and there was no other nearby

That's why, what's your point??? Those are just visuals of the living universe from the Anime.
That's why we can't take visuals literally.
What's your reasoning of assuming that the Earth is at the end of the universe???, Next to the dimensional walls???
-Nothing...........,at this point you are just Stone walling.
You are just trying to give us down our throats your own interpretation taking a visual of a Universe literally, which is meant to be a reference for scaling.

Friend you do not understand anything, tell me when I told you that the EARTH of Dragon Ball is in the center of the universe.

Copy and paste:

But in the Observable Universe, the Earth is in the center, and if we assume that DB's universe is the same as ours, you can't put it on the edge.

And what would it be in your opinion?

What Viet said:

observable universe radius is a safest assumption, as it is not too small or too big. If it is too small then like i said, Goku and Beerus shockwave and the Explosion Ball will strike other universe through dimensional wall, if it is too big we have issue due to having no proof and it will inflate the calc result, so observable universe radius is the best we can choose, as it is real life number, and at least a safe number.

 

[Kulf_Boba]

That's why, what's your point??? Those are just visuals of the living universe from the Anime.

That's why we can't take visuals literally.

My point was to answer that the shockwaves in the anime would not reach another universe because the distance is not quantifiable.

what's your reasoning of assuming that the Earth is at the end of the universe???, Next to the dimensional walls???
Nothing.......at this point you are just Stone walling.
You are just trying to give us down our throats your own interpretation taking a visual of a Universe literally, which is meant to be a reference for scaling.

I never said that the earth is at the end of the universe or next to the dimensional barrier. Please stop making stuff up.

Copy and paste:

LOL I'm talking about Earth IRL, it's clear when I say "In the Observable Universe", not in the DB Universe.

What Viet said:

And what is the logical reasoning for assuming that the distance from Earth to the (nearest) end of the Universe is equal to the radius of the observable universe?

 

[God900]

My point was to answer that the shockwaves in the anime would not reach another universe because the distance is not quantifiable.

Of course not.

LOL I'm talking about Earth IRL, it's clear when I say "In the Observable Universe", not in the DB Universe.

"DB universe" is a broad term.

But if you are refering about the observable universe, yeah.

Is in the edge, as stated by Bulma.

Again, don't take a visual too literal.
And also, we don't know exactly the distance, so your point is moot, don't try to give us your own version, becouse it won't work.

 

[Dalesean027]

With this personally I believe @God900 and @Vietthai96 make the most sense here if it counts for anything

 

[KLOL506]

This was the original one, but it is outdated since it came before the Kaioshin realm was introduced.

Hmmmmm, that erases the possibility of the Earth's positioning then. Meaning we'd need the later versions of the map below.

Though Planet Vegeta is also shown further out, might be just the book being folded making it look that wonky.

This was the updated one, also used by the anime. The anime map is identical, so any one can be used.

Btw, if you ask me, Earth is at the edge of the universe, so the observable universe sphere should also be placed somewhere near the edge, which would inflate the result by a lot, if we decide to go that route, but it certainly can be discussed. We can probably make two ends for the calc, one assuming that the observable universe fits at the bottom center, and the other assuming that the observable universe fits somewhere near the edge.

Hmmmmm, if the old map is outdated, would we still be able to use the position of the Earth or do we have to go some alternate route?

 

[KLOL506]

But in the Observable Universe, the Earth is in the center, and if we assume that DB's universe is the same as ours, you can't put it on the edge.

Nope, Earth is outright stated to be at the edge of the observable universe in the series by Bulma repeatedly in the anime and in the manga. That part is as final as it gets.

 

[KLOL506]

I have never said otherwise.

Putting the Observable Universe on the edge makes no sense first because the Earth IRL is in the center and second because the other half of the universe would be outside the macrocosm since the center is on the edge.

Nobody ever argued putting the Observable universe on the edge, did you even understand AKM's points? Only Earth would be at the edge of that observable Universe.

 

[KLOL506]

Well then, how would you put the Observable Universe on the Map of the Macrocosm?


Would the distance represented here from Earth to the Edge of the Universe be 46.508 billion light years?

As AKM said, map outdated because no Kaioshin Realm there and it came out before the Realm was established as such. So I'm not sure if we can even use those positions for our distance pinpointing.

 

[KLOL506]

My point was to answer that the shockwaves in the anime would not reach another universe because the distance is not quantifiable.

I'm genuinely astounded to see this point even being brought up. Why? This was never the damn point of figuring out the size, also nothing indicates that there are any dimensional walls at the edge of the observable universe to begin with, it's all part of the Living World. Heck, I don't even understand why dimensional walls are being brought up here to begin with.

 

[Kulf_Boba]

Nope, Earth is outright stated to be at the edge of the observable universe in the series by Bulma repeatedly in the anime and in the manga. That part is as final as it gets.

I don't know if I explained myself wrong since my first language is not English, but what I meant here is that the Earth IRL is the one at the center of the Universe.

 

[Vietthai96]

Actually, Bulma in both Anime and Manga only stated Earth is at the edge of the universe, no observable universe, just universe, the observable part is just we assume thing because in Daizenshuu or whatever magazine i don't rememble stated the Living Realm is resemble our real universe, so we at that time assume that DB Universe, or at least the Lower Half of the Macrocosm must be the observable universe

 

[KLOL506]

I don't know if I explained myself wrong since my first language is not English, but what I meant here is that the Earth IRL is the one at the center of the Universe.

The Earth being at the center of the universe in real life has no basis on the position of the Earth in the Dragon Ball Universe. PERIOD.

I still don't get why we're using OUR universe to determine the position of Earth in the DB Universe when statements contradict it. This is as clear cut as it gets.

 

[KLOL506]

Actually, Bulma in both Anime and Manga only stated Earth is at the edge of the universe, no observable universe, just universe, the observable part is just we assume thing because in Daizenshuu or whatever magazine i don't rememble stated the Living Realm is resemble our real universe, so we at that time assume that DB Universe, or at least the Lower Half of the Macrocosm must be the observable universe

Either way, I still don't see how the position of the IRL Earth in the IRL Universe has any significance to the position of Earth in the DB Universe, why this comparison is being brought up to begin with is beyond me.

 

[Kulf_Boba]

Nobody ever argued putting the Observable universe on the edge, did you even understand AKM's points? Only Earth would be at the edge of that observable Universe.

By placing the Observable Universe in the center (of the bottom), the edges of it would already be connected to the bottom edges of the macrocosm, so it fits with the fact that the Earth is on the edge.

So what AKM proposed to put the Observable Universe on edge doesn't make sense to me.

Btw, if you ask me, Earth is at the edge of the universe, so the observable universe sphere should also be placed somewhere near the edge, which would inflate the result by a lot, if we decide to go that route, but it certainly can be discussed. We can probably make two ends for the calc, one assuming that the observable universe fits at the bottom center, and the other assuming that the observable universe fits somewhere near the edge.

 

[Kulf_Boba]

The Earth being at the center of the universe in real life has no basis on the position of the Earth in the Dragon Ball Universe. PERIOD.

I still don't get why we're using OUR universe to determine the position of Earth in the DB Universe when statements contradict it. This is as clear cut as it gets.

Ok, I agree, but I wasn't arguing that DB Earth is at the center of the universe.

 

[Kulf_Boba]

I'm genuinely astounded to see this point even being brought up. Why? This was never the damn point of figuring out the size, also nothing indicates that there are any dimensional walls at the edge of the observable universe to begin with, it's all part of the Living World. Heck, I don't even understand why dimensional walls are being brought up here to begin with.

nothing is perfectly correct, observable universe radius is a safest assumption, as it is not too small or too big. If it is too small then like i said, Goku and Beerus shockwave and the Explosion Ball will strike other universe through dimensional wall, if it is too big we have issue due to having no proof and it will inflate the calc result, so observable universe radius is the best we can choose, as it is real life number, and at least a safe number. You can't have everything perfect, unless you expect Toriyama to be a scientist genius who draw manga ^^. Anyway sleep

 

[KLOL506]

So what AKM proposed to put the Observable Universe on edge doesn't make sense to me.

Problem is, we're not talking about the bottom or top edge at all, since Earth is not exactly located there if the Daizenshuu map is to be believed, the Earth is located to the far right on the map.

nothing is perfectly correct, observable universe radius is a safest assumption, as it is not too small or too big. If it is too small then like i said, Goku and Beerus shockwave and the Explosion Ball will strike other universe through dimensional wall, if it is too big we have issue due to having no proof and it will inflate the calc result, so observable universe radius is the best we can choose, as it is real life number, and at least a safe number. You can't have everything perfect, unless you expect Toriyama to be a scientist genius who draw manga ^^. Anyway sleep

I honestly also don't see why the issue of dimensional walls are being brought up to begin with, the walls don't prevent physical destruction, are only found between the living realm and the Afterlife and only work at preventing direct physical travel.

Also there's no indication that the damage extends beyond Universe 7's macrocosm, otherwise we'd be looking at a 2-C feat for being able to affect other universes, but no evidence exists that Goku was also affecting all of space-time in any measurable magnitude.

Only problem now is how to put Planet Namek and Planet Vegeta in that sphere since they seem to be much farther out from the center of the observable universe than Earth if the Daizenshuu scan is to be believed and appplied to the anime version as well.

@AKM sama @DarkDragonMedeus Do you guys have any suggestions? I'm at a loss here.

 

[Vietthai96]

dimensional walls

It was mentioned in the Daizenshuu itself so.....

Also there's no indication that the damage extends beyond Universe 7's macrocosm, otherwise we'd be looking at a 2-C feat for being able to affect other universes, but no evidence exists that Goku was also affecting all of space-time in any measurable magnitude.

By all mean, with Beerus and Champa feat, the distance between each universe is measurable. We just rigidly applied our standard on DB while the verse itself treated the distance as quantifiable

 

[KLOL506]

It was mentioned in the Daizenshuu itself so.....

Oh? Which dimensional walls would be affected by this other than the one between the Living Realm and Afterlife, specifically?

By all mean, with Beerus and Champa feat, the distance between each universe is measurable. We just rigidly applied our standard on DB while the verse itself treated the distance as quantifiable

I mean, even with inverse square law the explosion would far, far exceed the size of the globe itself.

 

[Kulf_Boba]

Problem is, we're not talking about the bottom or top edge at all, since Earth is not exactly located there if the Daizenshuu map is to be believed, the Earth is located to the far right on the map.

Yes, I know, I am also talking about the sides of the bottom, but the problem I had was that if you fit the Observable Universe circle close to the edge it weighed that a part of it would end up outside, now I realize that you can place it more to the edge although it will not increase the size of the macrocosmos too much.

 

[God900]

Finally you concede, about time.

 

[Kulf_Boba]

Finally you concede, about time.

LOL, you were just saying that I said that DB Earth is in the center and when I said that if the Observable Universe is placed on the edge, a part of it would be outside, you couldn't answer correctly, apart from agreeing with assuming that the distance from Earth to the nearest edge represented in the first map is equal to the radius of the Observable Universe

 

[God900]

LOL, you were just saying that I said that DB Earth is in the center and when I said that if the Observable Universe is placed on the edge, a part of it would be outside, you couldn't answer correctly, apart from agreeing with assuming that the distance from Earth to the nearest edge represented in the first map is equal to the radius of the Observable Universe

Anyways, the good thing is that the debate is seemingly closed.
Regardless, let's see how this Calc goes.
And I'm sorry if I sounded a bit rude yesterday.

Peace.

 

[Kulf_Boba]

Anyways, the good thing is that the debate is seemingly closed.
Regardless, let's see how this Calc goes.
And I'm sorry if I sounded a bit rude yesterday.

Peace.

Likewise.

 

[Vietthai96]

Still, we need to see KLOL opinion regarding this

 

[AKM sama]

Yes, I know, I am also talking about the sides of the bottom, but the problem I had was that if you fit the Observable Universe circle close to the edge it weighed that a part of it would end up outside, now I realize that you can place it more to the edge although it will not increase the size of the macrocosmos too much.

The yellow circle (the observable universe) will become smaller in comparison if you position it near the edge. But you won't be able to get any accurate result because it will depend on how you position it.

If that is a problem, we can simply go with this layout and call it a low ball.

 

[God900]

become smaller in comparison if you position it near the edge. But you won't be able to get any accurate result because it will depend on how you position it.

Ok, then we have a problem here.

Do you have any solution for this problem?, I mean, for not getting a Low balled result.

 

[KLOL506]

The yellow circle (the observable universe) will become smaller in comparison if you position it near the edge. But you won't be able to get any accurate result because it will depend on how you position it.

Yeah I was gonna say that, if you placed it to the farther edges it would become hilariously small and would make absolutely no sense at all.