A likely error in our Regeneration page

[Antvasima]

Regenerating from being blown to bits isn't in the same league either, but they're both High-Mid.

If the brain and body are both blown to small pieces, they two feats are at least somewhat comparable, which is sufficiently close for my tastes. Also, I do not want to do a too extreme overhaul.

 

[Armorchompy]

Well, it is still the by far most important organ for maintaining the human consciousness. Growing a body back from a severed head is nowhere near in the same league of regeneration as rebuilding an entire body from a finger.

Our current ratings are not based on consciousness at all, I believe, especially since the signal for regeneration does not come from the brain. The reason we consider the brain important is that the human body struggles a lot more woth regrowing nervous tissue.

 

[Promestein]

I'm not necessarily opposed to it, you're just misinterpreting the text. One is regenerating a severed head; the other is regenerating everything else. Yes, this is easily misinterpreted - but I don't necessarily agree that they're equally impressive. I don't have an issue with the change, again; Mid is currently a pretty small and specific regeneration tier and making it bigger isn't a bad idea.

But this is gonna involve more changes than you know. I don't exactly think the majority of our High-Mid havers regenerate from having their brains explicitly destroyed too; as it stands, people currently treat regenerating from dismemberment as High-Mid. Ryuuko and other KLK characters will be affected. Flandre and Remilia from Touhou also will. And I bet a number of others will be as well.

 

[Antvasima]

Our current ratings are not based on consciousness at all, I believe, especially since the signal for regeneration does not come from the brain. The reason we consider the brain important is that the human body struggles a lot more woth regrowing nervous tissue.

Well, the intention when I helped to gradually develop the system was to include the degree of remaining physical consciousness as a deciding factor. Hence, Low-Godly means recreating the body when it is completely obliterated and only the soul/abstract consciousness remains.

 

[Promestein]

That was your intention, Ant. I was also involved with the Regeneration development (and in fact wrote a large portion of the page as it stands right now) and I clearly wasn't valuing that as the focus.

 

[Armorchompy]

Well, the intention when I helped to gradually develop the system was to include the degree of remaining physical consciousness as a deciding factor.

... But it isn't. It takes absolutely no place in the act of regeneration in reality, so we should not use it as the deciding factor for our tiers.

Hence, Low-Godly means recreating the body when it is completely obliterated and only the soul/abstract consciousness remains.

Obviously regenerating from no body at all is better than regenerating from any remains, that is much easier to evaluate compared to brain vs body.

 

[Antvasima]

I'm not necessarily opposed to it, you're just misinterpreting the text. One is regenerating a severed head; the other is regenerating everything else. Yes, this is easily misinterpreted - but I don't necessarily agree that they're equally impressive. I don't have an issue with the change, again; Mid is currently a pretty small and specific regeneration tier and making it bigger isn't a bad idea.

Well, at the very least the distinction between the two types needs to be much better clarified, but if you do not really have a problem with the change that I suggested, that is obviously better.

But this is gonna involve more changes than you know. I don't exactly think the majority of our High-Mid havers regenerate from having their brains explicitly destroyed too; as it stands, people currently treat regenerating from dismemberment as High-Mid. Ryuuko and other KLK characters will be affected. Flandre and Remilia from Touhou also will. And I bet a number of others will be as well.

Okay. That is a problem, yes.

 

[Promestein]

I mean, is it a problem? We can just tackle it slowly. I was taking issue with you being of the oopinion that what you want it to be was always the case and that it wouldn't involve work. We can handle it.

 

[Antvasima]

... But it isn't. It takes absolutely no place in the act of regeneration in reality, so we should not use it as the deciding factor for our tiers.

Obviously regenerating from no body at all is better than regenerating from any remains, that is much easier to evaluate compared to brain vs body.

The key issue is that the entire consciousness with all memories intact being restored along with the body from a severed hand is far more remarkable than doing so from a head that never had the personality significantly damaged in the first place.

 

[Promestein]

I think you misunderestimate how much nervous damage the destruction of the rest of the body would necessitate. Does this mean that regenerating the brain but not maintaining the same personality wouldn't be Mid, also?

 

[Antvasima]

That was your intention, Ant. I was also involved with the Regeneration development (and in fact wrote a large portion of the page as it stands right now) and I clearly wasn't valuing that as the focus.

Okay. I always thought that it was intuitively apparent, but apparently not.

I mean, is it a problem? We can just tackle it slowly. I was taking issue with you being of the oopinion that what you want it to be was always the case and that it wouldn't involve work. We can handle it.

Okay. That is good then.

 

[Antvasima]

I think you misunderestimate how much nervous damage the destruction of the rest of the body would necessitate. Does this mean that regenerating the brain but not maintaining the same personality wouldn't be Mid, also?

I suppose that is a valid point, but it is very rare that characters do not fully recover their consciousness and personalities after regeneration. Otherwise it is more equivalent to cutting off a finger to create a copy of oneself after both parts have regenerated.

 

[Promestein]

Not really?

Brain regeneration is Mid and I don't want any ambiguity regarding that as a baseline regardless of caveats. I'm fine with regenerating the rest of the body being Mid rather than High-Mid.

This also affects Namekian regeneration. Though in that case Low-Mid seems better.

 

[Antvasima]

Okay, so would you prefer to slightly modify the suggestion that I posted above in some manner? And if so, how?

Here it is:

Here is what we currently use:

Mid: The ability to regenerate from decapitation or severe brain damage. For machines and vehicles, this would be regenerating from the destruction of critical parts, such as the engine.

• Examples: Dante (Devil May Cry), Sayaka Miki (Puella Magi Madoka Magica)

High-Mid: The ability to regenerate from being blown / cut to pieces, or from a small piece of the user's body, such as a severed head, a single organ, or a finger.

• Examples: Meta-Cooler (Dragon Ball), Dio Brando (JoJo's Bizarre Adventure), Ryūko Matoi (Kill la Kill)

Low-High: The ability to regenerate from having no solid parts of the body remaining. This can range from a puddle or drop of blood to even a single cell. For robots and machines, this can also include regenerating from a liquid state.

And here is what I want us to use:

Mid: The ability to regenerate from decapitation or severe brain damage. For machines and vehicles, this would be regenerating from the destruction of critical parts, such as the engine.

• Examples: Dante (Devil May Cry), Sayaka Miki (Puella Magi Madoka Magica)

High-Mid: The ability to regenerate from being blown/cut to pieces, brain included, or from a small piece of the user's body, such as a finger, or the heart.

• Examples: Meta-Cooler (Dragon Ball), Dio Brando (JoJo's Bizarre Adventure), Ryūko Matoi (Kill la Kill)

Low-High: The ability to regenerate from having no solid parts of the body remaining. This can range from a puddle or drop of blood to even a single cell. For robots and machines, this can also include regenerating from a liquid state.

As you can see, there is a much more logical progression of severity in this manner.

 

[Promestein]

The new description is fine with me I just don't want you misunderstanding what I want.

 

[Antvasima]

Well, I have some communication, attention, and memory problems, but if you explain it in an easy to understand manner, I will try to keep it in mind.

 

[Promestein]

I've explained it as well as I can.

 

[Antvasima]

I think that you preferably need to provide a summary of what you want me to understand. I am constantly switching between different tasks, so it is recurrently hard to keep track.

 

[Antvasima]

Is it the issue that the degree of remaining consciousness is not an intuitively determining factor, or something else as well?

 

[Promestein]

Biological regeneration isn't about consciousness, it's about what's necessary to life. The brain is the most complex and vital organ; regenerating from severe brain damage is Mid. Regenerating from any degree of severe nervous damage should be either at the high-end of Low-Mid or Mid.

 

[Antvasima]

Okay. Noted.

 

[Promestein]

Anyways I'm fine with this being applied

 

[Antvasima]

Okay. Thank you for helping out. I will do so then.

 

[Antvasima]

I have done so. Should we close this thread now?

 

[KLOL506]

If anyone else has nothing left to add on, sure.

 

[Antvasima]

I will wait a bit for further comments then.

 

[SamanPatou]

The description of Low-Mid regen should include healing from minor brain damage, such as bullets, to avoid the confusion that has been extensively discussed in this thread.
This also results in an immediate downgrade for the likes of Captain America, who have mid regen after recovering from headshots.


Also, I think Promestein wanted to make more evident that regenerating the head from the entire body is Mid, while regenerating the entire body from the head alone is High-Mid, although I may be wrong.

 

[KLOL506]

The description of Low-Mid regen should include healing from minor brain damage, such as bullets, to avoid the confusion that has been extensively discussed in this thread.

Oh yeah, I was wondering why that wasn't added.

This also results in an immediate downgrade for the likes of Captain America, who have mid regen after recovering from headshots.

Sure thing. Also downgrades Wolvie (Comics one anyway), but I think his regen feats also included his entire body got vaped organs included, minus eyeballs and maybe brain, but IDK.

Also, I think Promestein wanted to make more evident that regenerating the head from the entire body is Mid, while regenerating the entire body from the head alone is High-Mid, although I may be wrong.

High-Mid part is included I think, it says this:

The ability to regenerate from being blown/cut to pieces, brain included, or from a small piece of the user's body, such as a finger, or the heart.

Only Mid needs fixing I think.

And yeah, not just Prom, Armorchompy and I were sort of arguing for it too.

Regenerating a body from a head requires you to heal as much nervous tissue as the brain, if not more, and plus, all your other organs on top. Regen is not consciousness-based is what they were trying to say.

 

[KLOL506]

This also results in an immediate downgrade for the likes of Captain America, who have mid regen after recovering from headshots.

Wait, this is wrong, Comic Cap doesn't have Mid regen, he only has Mid-Low on his profile, AKA he actually gets upgraded LMAO

 

[SamanPatou]

Wait, this is wrong, Comic Cap doesn't have Mid regen, he only has Mid-Low on his profile, AKA he actually gets upgraded LMAO

He has Mid overtime

Sure thing. Also downgrades Wolvie (Comics one anyway), but I think his regen feats also included his entire body got vaped organs included, minus eyeballs and maybe brain, but IDK.

The highest regeneration feat featured on his profile is regenerating from like, everything but skeleton and eyeballs (we don't know about the brain), but I don't know which level would such feat grant.

 

[KLOL506]

He has Mid overtime

EDIT: NVM, it's an overtime feat.

The highest regeneration feat featured on his profile is regenerating from like, everything but skeleton and eyeballs (we don't know about the brain), but I don't know which level would such feat grant.

Well, High-Mid with a weakness? Since he can still die if his head is removed from his body. Which is super weird, unless you account the adamantium protecting his spinal nerves and blood vessels in the bones. It's not exactly an overtime feat either, since he gets everything back pretty quickly.

EDIT: NVM, the explosion took out his nervous system too (Wolvie feels and says as much), pretty much everything except his brain and eyeballs, but those would be nothing without the other systems. Most likely High-Mid with a weakness if we accept regenerating a body from the brain to be High-Mid as per Prom and Armorchompy's proposals.

 

[Antvasima]

So should we change this:

Low-Mid: The ability to regenerate lost limbs, and even from severe organ damage or destruction, including traditionally fatal wounds and disembowelment or horizontal bisection. For machines and vehicles, this would be regenerating minor parts and more extensive internal damage.

To something like this?

Low-Mid: The ability to regenerate lost limbs, limited brain damage, and even severe organ damage or destruction, including traditionally fatal wounds and disembowelment or horizontal bisection. For machines and vehicles, this would be regenerating minor parts and more extensive internal damage.

What do you think @Promestein ?

 

[KLOL506]

So should we change this:

Low-Mid: The ability to regenerate lost limbs, and even from severe organ damage or destruction, including traditionally fatal wounds and disembowelment or horizontal bisection. For machines and vehicles, this would be regenerating minor parts and more extensive internal damage.

To something like this?

Low-Mid: The ability to regenerate lost limbs, limited brain damage, and even severe organ damage or destruction, including traditionally fatal wounds and disembowelment or horizontal bisection. For machines and vehicles, this would be regenerating minor parts and more extensive internal damage.

What do you think @Promestein ?

This is perfect.

 

[Antvasima]

Thank you.

 

[Promestein]

We'd have to change High-Mid to also be more clear, as you wanted.

 

[Antvasima]

I handled that yesterday:

Regeneration

Regeneration, often referred to as a healing factor, is the ability to passively heal oneself from wounds at an accelerated rate, with many characters proving capable of regenerating from wounds that would be lethal to normal humans. It has several different levels that range in potency from...

vsbattles.fandom.com

 

[Promestein]

Alright. Go ahead then.

 

[Antvasima]

Thank you. I will do so then.

 

[Antvasima]

I have done so:

Regeneration

Regeneration, often referred to as a healing factor, is the ability to passively heal oneself from wounds at an accelerated rate, with many characters proving capable of regenerating from wounds that would be lethal to normal humans. It has several different levels that range in potency from...

vsbattles.fandom.com

 

[Promestein]

I've been downgrading some affected profiles and making threads.

We should compile visual references for every physical regeneration level now. Well, at least up to High-Mid, it's pretty unambiguous after that.