Horrors of the apocalypse (Helmed Horror vs Apocalypse Bird)

[Peppersalt43]

Animated armor on steroids : 7
Apocalypse Birb : 0
Incon : 0

8-B versions used (Which means second key Helmed Horror)
Speed equalized
Helmed horror is aware of the birds' eggs
Fight takes place in Site 19, 20 meters apart

It took me a very long while to find something that can fight a Lobotomy Corporation monster but I think I found it. Guy massively resists fear and mind manip and assuming the anomalies' madness manip is type 2 (Can directly attack the mind and eventually drive people to insanity), he should resist it as well.

 

[Peppersalt43]

Ah, the first bump

 

[Peppersalt43]

Bump

 

[Peppersalt43]

Bump

 

[Antoniofer]

Hmm, the Helmed Horror have a x7.3 AP advantage, its mindless so it is immune to mental stuff, and since is not a living being its immune to soul stuff (like, its immuneto to energy drain, so I believe it would be the same), plus its ability to darken everything wouldn't work as the armor can see in the darkness. Only advantage that the bird appears to have is that have Mid-High regen, that I do not see how the armor could bypass it.

 

[Peppersalt43]

Hmm, the Helmed Horror have a x7.3 AP advantage, its mindless so it is immune to mental stuff, and since is not a living being its immune to soul stuff (like, its immuneto to energy drain, so I believe it would be the same), plus its ability to darken everything wouldn't work as the armor can see in the darkness. Only advantage that the bird appears to have is that have Mid-High regen, that I do not see how the armor could bypass it.

That regen effectively renders the bird immortal. In fact, it is actually invulnerable

The way you beat the Apocalypse Bird is by destroying the 3 eggs scattered in various rooms around it. Meanwhile, the birds have 2 attacks that bypass conventional resistance or durability (via BLACK damage. Not insta-kill) and has a very strong physical attack. The resistance negation attacks can be partially removed by destroying a specific egg and since the Helmed Horror has prior knowledge, it'll probably go for said egg. The other resistance negation attack can be avoided by getting out of their range

 

[Peppersalt43]

Hmm, the Helmed Horror have a x7.3 AP advantage, its mindless so it is immune to mental stuff, and since is not a living being its immune to soul stuff (like, its immuneto to energy drain, so I believe it would be the same), plus its ability to darken everything wouldn't work as the armor can see in the darkness. Only advantage that the bird appears to have is that have Mid-High regen, that I do not see how the armor could bypass it.

I've answered your question

 

[Antoniofer]

Since the Bird's form of ignoring durability involve messing with the mind and soul of the target then then its virtually useless against the armor since, as a construct, its mindless and its immune to energy drain (that its the equivalent of draining the soul), so I assume it would also be immune to spiritual messing abilities. So how I see it, the only ay for the bird to stop the armor is to defeate before the golem destroys the eggs (not sure how far they are located), something it will find difficult since the AP difference is around x7.3

 

[Peppersalt43]

Since the Bird's form of ignoring durability involve messing with the mind and soul of the target then then its virtually useless against the armor since, as a construct

How did you come to that conclusion? BLACK damage hurts the body and mind. It's PALE damage that hurts the soul and it classifies as death manip

Also the bird can teleport and the eggs are typically scattered far and about so it should have a decent amount of time to do so

 

[Antoniofer]

Yeah, its the thing, the helmed armor as a construct has no mind, there's nothing to harm there with BLACK damage aside of a body.

 

[Peppersalt43]

Yeah, its the thing, the helmed armor as a construct has no mind, there's nothing to harm there with BLACK damage aside of a body.

Yes, and he has a physical form. That's still something to hurt

But fine, do you vote the helmed horror?

 

[Antoniofer]

Yeah, but its physical form is apparently x7.3 times above the bird's AP.

Worst case scenario for the armor, the bird is virtually immortal and can teleport away along its egg then don't think the helmed horror would have the chance to destroy all eggs before getting destroyed. However, the armor can also teleport, although I think it can only do it three times a day, that is the amount of times needed as there's only three eggs.

 

[Peppersalt43]

Yeah, but its physical form is apparently x7.3 times above the bird's AP.

Worst case scenario for the armor, the bird is virtually immortal and can teleport away along its egg then don't think the helmed horror would have the chance to destroy all eggs before getting destroyed. However, the armor can also teleport, although I think it can only do it three times a day, that is the amount of times needed as there's only three eggs.

Okay, counted your vote. The eggs are immovable anyway

 

[Peppersalt43]

Bump

 

[Smashtwig]

Hm… gonna wait on this one

 

[Peppersalt43]

Alright, that's respectable

 

[Peppersalt43]

Bump

 

[Peppersalt43]

Bump

 

[Imaginym]

Hmm, the Helmed Horror have a x7.3 AP advantage,

What are the exact AP values here? Basises?

Looking at the profiles, I found these values:

Attack Potency: At least City Block level (Easily superior to Meat Lantern and Food Chain. Casually shook the entire Lobotomy Corporation department, which spans many multiple floors)
Calculation for Apocalypse Bird says 1.1064332e10 Joules = 2.644438815 tons (11,064,332,000 joules for anyone who can't read scientific notation.)
Meat Lantern scales to Meat Lantern's own feat of "burrowing through tons of stone in an instant, which is rated at 192,805,182,835.4589 joules. Or City Block level.
& Food Chain....
Attack Potency: City Block level (Superior to Abnormalities like Meat Lantern, who can burrow through tons of rocks quickly. Can also perform a similar tunneling feat)
That calculation yields: 136,506,386,049 joules or 1.36 *10^11 Aka 32.625809285 tons This is about 8-B, City Block level

So, Apocalypse Bird's calculated feat (11,064,332,000 joules/2.644438815 tons) is 17.4258313 times weaker than Meat Lantern's own calculated feat, & Apocalypse Bird's calculated feat is ALSO 12.3375172 times weaker than Food Chain's feat.
Yet it's superior to them, as its mentioned on its profile, & all of these feats are linked on their profiles. (Also, Meat Lantern has the higher feat, yet Food Chain is superior??)

So which value does Apocalypse Bird scale to? The highest one? & if that's one of its inferiors' feats, which it scales above, then it scales as superior to that???

This scaling feels wonky to me, yo.

What about the Helmed Horror? Well, since this is a Battle Horror, this means the relevant Calculation is: "likely City Block level (Comparable to casters of Lower Water)"
The relevant calc puts them at: Spellcaster Lowers Water: 43.46 Tons of TNT, City Block level
(About 181.836.640.000 joules.)

So, at the most favorable for Apocalypse Bird, it's scaling as superior to the higher-than-Apocalypse-Bird's calculation for Food Chain, which is 192,805,182,835.4589 joules/46.0815447 Tonnes of TNT. Which feels weird because again, that Calc for Food Chain is more than 17.4258313 higher than Apocalypse Bird's own Calculated Feat.
But if Apocalypse Bird IS scaling as superior to that feat, then it's scaling as superior to a scaling about 1.06032086 times stronger than the Battle Horror's own scaling point. (About a 6% AP advantage, lol.)

At the most unfavorable, Apocalypse Bird is scaling to the calc for Apocalypse Bird's own feat, which is About 16.43 times weaker than the Helmed Horror's scaling point.

Forgive my confusion, but where does the 7.3x gap come from?

Dungeons and Dragons Calc: Water Stuff

vsbattles.fandom.com

Also, Apocalypse Bird has this:
Statistics Amplification (Deals more damage the more damage he receives thanks to the Blessing of Apocalypse Bird's EGO weapon)

That might make it able to catch up if it is indeed behind in AP over the match.
Does it take damage as Eggs are destroyed? Does destroying all 3 Eggs destroy it?

There's also the matter of Apocalypse Bird having: Energy Projection (Can shoot out beams from its wings)
But it doesn't know the Helmed Horror has: Absorption and Attack Reflection (Attacks of pure energy are absorbed into the Horror, healing it- excess spell damage that isn't required for healing is instead reflected back at the attacker)

Could Apocalypse Bird's energy attacks be absorbed/reflected? How would it handle whichever types of damage these are?

Fire Manipulation/Ice Manipulation/Explosion Manipulation/Electricity Manipulation/Sound Manipulation/Statistics Amplification (Helmed Horrors often bear magically enhanced weaponry, granting them elemental damage types, deafening sound blasts, or even extreme boosts to their speed)

Is the Horror involved in this battle wielding any Speed-boosting Weaponry? Also, the justification specifies Helmed Horror, but this match involves a Battle Horror. Can Battle Horrors have such Equipment? If such Speed-Boosting Equipment is present, how will it work under Speed Equalization?

Also, the justification seems to contradict the scan; The weapons are enhanced, but apparently it's by an ability granted to the Helmed Horror at creation that lets the Helmed Horror imbue its weapon with a magical power, & it's stated explicitly that the effect comes from the Helmed Horror, not the weapon, & can be called forth as a free action. (With a 1d10 deciding the result, where 1-3 is Nothing, 9 is Speed, & the others, I assume are a type of damage.)

It being a free action means it'd be initiated mid-match, right? So that'd mean it'd count as a Speed Boost that DOES apply despite Equalization, right?
So could & would our participating horror re-imbue a weapon its holding until it gets the weapon it wants? It needs to travel to the Eggs after all, right? If it does get the ostensibly 1-in-10-chance Speed Boost effect, how much faster does it become?


Although, with its forms of Teleportation, it may not need Speed, yeah, depending on Range, useage limitations, & how the Eggs are located.

Also, Apocalypse Bird is weird. Its "portrait" doesn't make sense. I know it depicts the items mentioned in the summary/lore, but what, did it put Long Bird's body & Big Bird's eye in Small Bird's mouth? & if it's made of a Big Bird, a Long Bird & a Small Bird, what size is it? Is it seriously just Human Size? If not, why doesn't it have Small Size or Large Size?

Pardon all the words, please. Hope this analysis helps! Or is at least interesting!

 

[Peppersalt43]

Forgive my confusion, but where does the 7.3x gap come from?

I had some suspicions but there's a possibility that @Antoniofer used the 8-A calc

That might make it able to catch up if it is indeed behind in AP over the match.
Does it take damage as Eggs are destroyed? Does destroying all 3 Eggs destroy it?

They lose a third of their health every time an egg is destroyed so yes, destroying 3 eggs destroys it

There's also the matter of Apocalypse Bird having: Energy Projection (Can shoot out beams from its wings)
But it doesn't know the Helmed Horror has: Absorption and Attack Reflection (Attacks of pure energy are absorbed into the Horror, healing it- excess spell damage that isn't required for healing is instead reflected back at the attacker)

Could Apocalypse Bird's energy attacks be absorbed/reflected? How would it handle whichever types of damage these are?

Since it's still energy, it probably can. Despite it being not RED damage which is physical, it still follows the rules of the projectile's nature and the only thing damage types change is what part is hurt from getting hit

Fire Manipulation/Ice Manipulation/Explosion Manipulation/Electricity Manipulation/Sound Manipulation/Statistics Amplification (Helmed Horrors often bear magically enhanced weaponry, granting them elemental damage types, deafening sound blasts, or even extreme boosts to their speed)

Is the Horror involved in this battle wielding any Speed-boosting Weaponry? Also, the justification specifies Helmed Horror, but this match involves a Battle Horror. Can Battle Horrors have such Equipment? If such Speed-Boosting Equipment is present, how will it work under Speed Equalization?

Also, the justification seems to contradict the scan; The weapons are enhanced, but apparently it's by an ability granted to the Helmed Horror at creation that lets the Helmed Horror imbue its weapon with a magical power, & it's stated explicitly that the effect comes from the Helmed Horror, not the weapon, & can be called forth as a free action. (With a 1d10 deciding the result, where 1-3 is Nothing, 9 is Speed, & the others, I assume are a type of damage.)

It being a free action means it'd be initiated mid-match, right? So that'd mean it'd count as a Speed Boost that DOES apply despite Equalization, right?
So could & would our participating horror re-imbue a weapon its holding until it gets the weapon it wants? It needs to travel to the Eggs after all, right? If it does get the ostensibly 1-in-10-chance Speed Boost effect, how much faster does it become?


Although, with its forms of Teleportation, it may not need Speed, yeah, depending on Range, useage limitations, & how the Eggs are located.

@Antoniofer, you can answer this

Also, Apocalypse Bird is weird. Its "portrait" doesn't make sense. I know it depicts the items mentioned in the summary/lore, but what, did it put Long Bird's body & Big Bird's eye in Small Bird's mouth? & if it's made of a Big Bird, a Long Bird & a Small Bird, what size is it? Is it seriously just Human Size? If not, why doesn't it have Small Size or Large Size?

Based on the corpses around Apocalypse Bird's gallery picture, it's probably large size type 0 though if I recall, type 0 sizes aren't required to be listed

Pardon all the words, please. Hope this analysis helps! Or is at least interesting!

It helps a ton and is interesting. Thank you

 

[Peppersalt43]

Bump, let's continue the discussion

 

[Peppersalt43]

Bump

 

[Peppersalt43]

Bump

 

[Peppersalt43]

It being a free action means it'd be initiated mid-match, right? So that'd mean it'd count as a Speed Boost that DOES apply despite Equalization, right?
So could & would our participating horror re-imbue a weapon its holding until it gets the weapon it wants? It needs to travel to the Eggs after all, right? If it does get the ostensibly 1-in-10-chance Speed Boost effect, how much faster does it become?

Alright so I had to reread the speed equalization page to get an answer. Speed amps still work in speed equalized matches. However in this case, it's unquantifiable so they're merely just faster by an unknown amount

 

[Imaginym]

I see. Well in any case, even if it doesn't get the Speed Boost, I'd assume the Battle Horror has this for Teleportation, the Energy Reflection/Absorption, & probably being in at least decent position, stats-wise.
I do wish we had a D&D Expert here.

Yeah, but its physical form is apparently x7.3 times above the bird's AP.

Worst case scenario for the armor, the bird is virtually immortal and can teleport away along its egg then don't think the helmed horror would have the chance to destroy all eggs before getting destroyed. However, the armor can also teleport, although I think it can only do it three times a day, that is the amount of times needed as there's only three eggs.

Would you be willing to weigh in on any of the matters I've brought up, please? Such as the disparity between the scan & the profile regarding the Battle Horror's Speed Boosting Weapon?

 

[Peppersalt43]

Would you be willing to weigh in on any of the matters I've brought up, please? Such as the disparity between the scan & the profile regarding the Battle Horror's Speed Boosting Weapon?

@Antoniofer has stated that he's not willing to debate here any more. Check this comment

 

[Imaginym]

Whoops. My apologies to him then. I hope I can forgiven, please.

 

[Peppersalt43]

Have you checked the response I've given regarding Apocalypse Bird? That can help with the discussion

Also I've found Battle Horror's 8-B calc, he's 43.46 tons with Apocalypse Bird being at 46 tons.

 

[Imaginym]

Have you checked the response I've given regarding Apocalypse Bird? That can help with the discussion

Also I've found Battle Horror's 8-B calc, he's 43.46 tons with Apocalypse Bird being at 46 tons.

I would assume that isn't too significant a gap to overcome, especially since initially, the Battle Horror's focus will be on getting to & smashing the Eggs, & its Energy Aborption/Reflection & Teleportation can make it difficult to engage at range, even if it doesn't get the Speed Boost.

 

[Peppersalt43]

I would assume that isn't too significant a gap to overcome, especially since initially, the Battle Horror's focus will be on getting to & smashing the Eggs, & its Energy Aborption/Reflection & Teleportation can make it difficult to engage at range, even if it doesn't get the Speed Boost.

Ah, so do you vote the Bird?

 

[Peppersalt43]

Well that was fun

Bump

 

[Imaginym]

Ah, so do you vote the Bird?

No....?
I vote the Horror because it can potentially have a Speed Boost, which, along with its teleportation & Attack Reflection/Absorption against Apocalypse Bird's Ranged Attacks, should make getting to & smashing the eggs not too difficult, plus the AP/Durability Gap doesn't seem so high that it can't be overcome.

& given the Helmed Horror can manually re-imbue its weapon, it can do so to get the property it needs (Ex: Fire, Sonic, Wounding, Speed, etc.), be that Speed or an Elemental Attack.
It also has Magic Missile. & while it's questionable if Magic Missile can penetrate Bird's defenses before the Eggs are broken (Despite Magic Missile being a Force type Magical Attack that homes in AND ignores physical obstructions as well as magical shield.)

The Battle Horror also has Mid-Low Regeneration to passively heal. It's a low level of Regen, but still useful as an animate suit of armor.
Plus: Extreme Resistance to Energy Manipulation, Soul Manipulation, Death Manipulation, Poison Manipulation, Sense Manipulation, Mind Manipulation, Empathic Manipulation, Fear Manipulation, Paralysis Inducement, Petrification, Magic, Reality Warping, Holy Manipulation, Subjective Reality, Fire Manipulation, Metal Manipulation, and Electricity Manipulation (See here)

I'm confident the Helmed Horror would be able to survive getting to & destroying the eggs. After which, AFAIK, Apocalypse Bird would try to retreat, no?

 

[Peppersalt43]

No....?

Huh, I must've mistyped it

Oh well, I got you to vote. Thanks!

 

[Peppersalt43]

Voting can commence now...

 

[Peppersalt43]

Bump

 

[Popted2]

Horror FRA

 

[Peppersalt43]

Counted and thank you

 

[Peppersalt43]

Bump

 

[Peppersalt43]

Bump...

 

[Peppersalt43]

Bump