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(GRACE) Luffy vs Nagato

Loyd said:
wasnt the chameleon sensed by sage mode? or pa and ma did so? im pretty sure luffy has better sense feats
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Nope it was not, it was Pa and Ma

and no luffy does not lmao
the only sensing feat he has is sensing attacks with his eyes closed
 
Pain_to12 said:
of course bee and naruto also has this on their profiles
anything else?
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Where?
 
Loyd said:
that was a joke but im really curious about your scan for that claim.
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naruto was on turtle island, a place as far away from the war as possible and was protected by a barrier that does not allow you to sense anything outside. the moment he got KCM!, Naruto could sense people emotions, death and chakra on the battlefield in a war happening in multiple countries away.
if you have seen nardo u will probably know this.
MonkeyOfLife said:
All previous abilities in base, Enhanced Senses,
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MonkeyOfLife said:
Link
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you should read the ******* thread.
whats all these where did u see haki resist all hax??

My Proposition​

In the future, whatever ability is considered a devil fruit ability is resisted by Haki, then we should consider that ability to be resisted by Haki.
This thread could/should/would be placed on the verse page for people to remember this rule instead of it being an unspoken rule, and it would decide if we consider future abilities as resisted or if we ignore it.
Click to expand...

 
MonkeyOfLife said:
Danger sense and presence sensing
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Pain_to12 said:
and precog
up to thousands of kilometers.
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Pain_to12 said:
naruto was on turtle island, a place as far away from the war as possible and was protected by a barrier that does not allow you to sense anything outside. the moment he got KCM!, Naruto could sense people emotions, death and chakra on the battlefield in a war happening in multiple countries away.
if you have seen nardo u will probably know this.
Click to expand...
this is just his kcm and a feat for presence detecting, are you asserting this for danger sense and precog too?

doesnt he switch up forms during the war? cause they both have thr benefits he states sage mode is better for danger sense

also he doesnt use the combine kurama/sage mode against nagato.
 
Loyd said:
this is just his kcm and a feat for presence detecting, are you asserting this for danger sense and precog too?
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yes, since he could sense the malicious intent of kisame from inside the samehada
Loyd said:
doesnt he switch up forms during the war? cause they both have thr benefits he states sage mode is better for danger sense
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no he said sage mode has better reaction
Loyd said:
also he doesnt use the combine kurama/sage mode against nagato.
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he doesnt have Bsm here. and the feats i mentioned are his feat in kcm
 
im trying to recall events from both series so im not sure about most things, but i know for a fact luffy has the superior sense feats.
 
Well I'm done with arguing with Pain_to12 I'm going to sleep
203545580_395737295167593_844247525159394960_n.jpg
 
Luffy has by far superior senses it’s not even close either. Since when did Nagato have better senses than everything Haki does… lol wtf
MonkeyOfLife said:
Link
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Yo my mans gots Amazing taste dbz 6 and HxH 9? Good shit monkey also berserk 9? I’m starting to love u monkey 😉 but we gotta address that 7 for mob psycho season 2
 
joshpiece said:
Luffy has by far superior senses it’s not even close either. Since when did Nagato have better senses than everything Haki does… lol wtf

Yo my mans gots Amazing taste dbz 6 and HxH 9? Good shit monkey also berserk 9? I’m starting to love u monkey 😉 but we gotta address that 7 for mob psycho season 2
Click to expand...
I know everything 😎 I liked mob psycho s1 much more… s2 felt rushed and confusing… plus if I remember correctly some didn’t even make sense but let’s not go of topic… I would rate it 7.6 I think 🤔 also I compare animes to anime so some might have a little more harsh ratings 😅 bye 😴 🐵😘
 
Inconclusive but leaning toward Nagato.

Nagato has the Hax to Put Luffy down but Luffy has the Precog and Stamina to outlast Nagato.
 

Luffy​

Vastly better sensing, his casual attacks have more range than Nagato's casual attacks, speed amps, unpredictability, more intelligent fighting wise, more stamina, superior hand to hand,

Nagato​

Far more hax abilities, more variety in attacks, more range with serious attacks, superior lifting, and that's pretty much it

Voting Luffy
 
Oh man oh man! This is actually quite sad to seeing how people are assuming that summoning beasts are going to do something against Luffy, I repeat summoning beasts I'll you list you my reasons why Luffy wins.


Haoshuko Haki
1) People are using Naruto as an argument due to his sensory powers, but right now I wanna talk about Haoshuko Haki. Haoshuko Haki allows Luffy to tame any animals and beasts, an ability he unconsciously used in pre-time-skip and now should be able to do that without having to point a finger at them.

Sensory powers
2) Naruto's has pretty good senses, however Luffy badly outsenses Naruto, reason below.
Naruto has extra large range, enhanced senses, presence sensing, and has danger sensing.
Luffy has precognition (Passive Future sight), telepathy, ehanced Senses, emotional senses, intent senses, danger senses, presence sensing, according to Rayleigh's explanation Luffy should be capable of sensing invisible people/individuals, and Luffy's precognition can counter someone's precognition. Therefore Naruto's sensory powers = / = Luffy's sensory powers.


Conclusion
3) So now that we have established both, allow me to explain further. Nagato's opening move is always summoning Jutsu based on his fight against Bee and Naruto, he is prone to summon the dog and chameleon first, expecting the Chameleon to catch his foe so he can soul rip them. However, Haoshuko Haki, fly, future sight, superior combat experience, durability negation via Red Hawk and Luffy's unpredictable fighting style will give him issues. Basically, once Luffy tamed the beasts via Haoshuko Haki, Luffy launches a jet culverlin, naturally Nagato dodged the punch and is surprised that his first strategy didn't worked so he will immediately proceed to his second strategy using his gravitational power via extending his right arm and soul rip him. However, little did he know about Snakeman's homing attacks, even Katakuri who passively used Future Sight could barely keep up with Snakeman's homing if he hadn't seen in the future he would surely get hit by Luffy's first punch so what about Nagato? But it doesn't just stop there that's where Luffy brutal series of attacks begins like Luffy vs Blueno, Enel, Crocodile, and Doflamingo. Even without Ryou a punch from any Gear 4 isn't a laughing matter, Luffy will abuse his range and future sight to it's fullest extent. Since he definitely knows where Nagato would dodge unlike Katakuri who only could avoide some blows by literally turning into mochi. I doubt there is any escape from Black Mamba an upgraded version of Jet Gatling and normal Gatling where he can throw 100 or 1000 punches in an instant plus Luffy inexhaustable stamina and unmatched versatility via Gomu Gomu no mi. Alright, I am not forgetting Nagato's Chibaku Tensei, but it's irrelevant here since Luffy won't let him and bully him with his homing and range.

My issue with "soul rip gg argument" is that Nagato won't get close to use his hax in the first place. Luffy won't give him the chance to do that he's not a DBZ character and standing still and doing nothing. The entire argument purely relies on the fact that Nagato needs to touch or incapacitate him. Not downplaying him, but that's so far my reason how the fight would go out.

Voting for Luffy.

 
Well if luffy's sitting back at range and summons fail then nagato can universal pull liffy then grab him to pull his soul, but luffy has superior lifting strength so I guess nagato would just shinra tensei luffy far away and then chibaku tensei gg.
 
FluffyCreatureZ said:
Well if luffy's sitting back at range and summons fail then nagato can universal pull liffy then grab him to pull his soul, but luffy has superior lifting strength so I guess nagato would just shinra tensei luffy far away and then chibaku tensei gg.
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Again, I already explained why it wouldn't work in the first place. Nagato's universal pull has several weaknesses. As seen in Kakashi vs Pain, his defense is open and he wouldn't be able to avoid attacks similar to Blackbeard vs Ace where Ace used flame spears at Blackbeard, also Luffy can foresee Nagato using universal pull, as well as sensing his intentions via intent sense, so that isn't working.

What's stopping Luffy from spamming range + homing and simply overwhelm Nagato? Luffy is practically a combat Genuis and has far superior combat experience. He probably knows how to deal with that, he can use black mamba, an ability to throw 1000 or more punches at once with homing and Busoshoku Haki imbued. Katakuri barely avoided the blows despite having superior recognition than Luffy and Nagato, in fact he got hit 3 times and when he was slightly overwhelmed all fists were about to hit him and he turned into small mochi to avoid, so how's Nagato supposed to dodge that and come out unscathed? He would essentially get hit by 1000 or more punches with 7-A AP, if one punch success to land a hit.

Nagato's only win condition is his soul manipulation, but that can be avoided by various ways, Luffy's elasticity and precognition comes in handy. Also his mobility makes him nearly impossible to catch, I even doubt Nagato can safely use Chibaku Tensei without being worried dodging Luffy's attacks, or any other abilities when Luffy won't simply let him, and his punches will keep follow him everywhere.

In the end, he's using alive Nagato without Regen, he can't afford taking multiple blows nor can tank it with ease. Nagato doesn't strike me as kind of person to take unnecessary risks.
 
RazumaHiroki said:
Again, I already explained why it wouldn't work in the first place. Nagato's universal pull has several weaknesses. As seen in Kakashi vs Pain, his defense is open and he wouldn't be able to avoid attacks similar to Blackbeard vs Ace where Ace used flame spears at Blackbeard, also Luffy can foresee Nagato using universal pull, as well as sensing his intentions via intent sense, so that isn't working.

What's stopping Luffy from spamming range + homing and simply overwhelm Nagato? Luffy is practically a combat Genuis and has far superior combat experience. He probably knows how to deal with that, he can use black mamba, an ability to throw 1000 or more punches at once with homing and Busoshoku Haki imbued. Katakuri barely avoided the blows despite having superior recognition than Luffy and Nagato, in fact he got hit 3 times and when he was slightly overwhelmed all fists were about to hit him and he turned into small mochi to avoid, so how's Nagato supposed to dodge that and come out unscathed? He would essentially get hit by 1000 or more punches with 7-A AP, if one punch success to land a hit.

Nagato's only win condition is his soul manipulation, but that can be avoided by various ways, Luffy's elasticity and precognition comes in handy. Also his mobility makes him nearly impossible to catch, I even doubt Nagato can safely use Chibaku Tensei without being worried dodging Luffy's attacks, or any other abilities when Luffy won't simply let him, and his punches will keep follow him everywhere.

In the end, he's using alive Nagato without Regen, he can't afford taking multiple blows nor can tank it with ease. Nagato doesn't strike me as kind of person to take unnecessary risks.
Click to expand...
Universal pull doesn't actually have weaknesses, that "weakness" was with tendo pain who was only able to use deva path abilities but nagato can use all the paths, so he can block any attack luffy throws while he's being pulled. Nagato can negate any attack luffy throws with shinra tensei including black mamba. And shinra tensei also gives him the opening to use chibaku tensei.
 
FluffyCreatureZ said:
Universal pull doesn't actually have weaknesses, that "weakness" was with tendo pain who was only able to use deva path abilities but nagato can use all the paths, so he can block any attack luffy throws while he's being pulled. Nagato can negate any attack luffy throws with shinra tensei including black mamba. And shinra tensei also gives him the opening to use chibaku tensei.
Click to expand...
Do you understand the point I'm making? Luffy's able to forsee universal pull so he knows beforehand what Nagato is going to do, in other words Luffy saw a future where Nagato summons his beasts, then uses universal pull, while Nagato doesn't know one bit of Luffy's abilities, resistances, and advantages. He will proceed with his first strategy, relying on his beasts first. The Future of him summoning the beasts is unchanged precisely because he has no way of knowing that Luffy possess precognition.

Secondly, He needs to activate it so it can take into effect, Nagato can't use it without specific gestures or chakra, you would have to prove he can use Universal pull without extending his palm or arm, in this case it's a battle where can react faster or where hit first, goes without saying Luffy can do that even with speed equalized.

Luffy's advantages allow him of figuring out his enemy's weak point quickly and efficiently, then adjusts his strategies accordingly to take advantage of what he learned and that in a split second, basically when Nagato is about to say "Univer..." Luffy delivers a quick, but impactful punch in his face, no way he will able to just shrugg it off that's the same blow that made Yonko commanders literally blast away and made them warry about his stretchiness and elasticity, and without 1.5x AP difference, saying that Nagato can effortlessly tank it is nonsensical.

The issue I have with your argument is you are conveniently ignoring the fact that Future sight, Intent sensing, Homing and Unpredictable Fightstyle hard counters Nagato's abilities.

"Nagato can negate any attack with Shinra Tensei including black mamba"

Eeh.. you forgot that Nagato can't spam Shinra Tensei, your argument relies on the fact that Nagato can spam it when it's stated otherwise you can't. If you use the argument that he is the original pain, therefore fixed Shinra Tensei's weakness that's not how it exactly work, you would have to prove it.

"And Shinra Tensei also gives him the opening to use Shinra Tensei"

Again, I don't see how that exactly works, Shinra Tensei doesn't even give him more than 1 minute time and he can't spam it. Luffy's superior mobility and able to cover a far greater distance would simply allow him more opportunities and ways to hit Nagato.
 
Luffy has fought people that can do the exact same thing but much better… Fujitora and big mom…. Luffy will be able to easily know what to do even without his sensing abilities. Also does this luffy have Ryou haki?
 
Fuji dosen't really use his gravity powers like nagato so I wouldnt say all that, He mostly pins you down and stuff iirc where as nagato pushes and pulls and whats the comparison with big mom?

How let him use chibaku tensei? All he has to do is clap, both can fly have homing attacks (ashura path missiles and soul suck dragon) and have speed amps. Granted I think luffy will be on the offense more then nagato but its not like hes a sitting duck
 
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