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(GRACE) Luffy vs Nagato

RazumaHiroki said:
Again, greater striking strength, he will immediately break out from Chibaku Tensei and defeat a half-dead Nagato who recklessly used his last resort.
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unless he is country level, he is not breaking out of CT< Took a fully charged TBB, KCM1 rasenshuriken and yasaka beads to break it.
 
OneBleachHurricane said:
FYI, Lifting Strength is what is needed to breakout of stuff in this site not Striking Strength.

And yes, Luffy does have the Lifting Strength to break out CT
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except CT paralyses and seals anyone caught in it, you need to destroy the core before it fully forms, once you are caught in it, u have been seal.
and no luffy does not have the LS or AP to break it
 
To me it seems like, you just can't accept that an One piece character won.

Judging by various threads you made and things you said, also the way you constantly tries to downgrade things.

I doubt you are capable of debating without letting your bias gets the best of you, so not really in the mood of debating over something that has been decided already.
 
RazumaHiroki said:
To me it seems like, you just can't accept that an One piece character won.

Judging by various threads you made and things you said, also the way you constantly tries to downgrade things.

I doubt you are capable of debating without letting your bias gets the best of you, so not really in the mood of debating over something that has been decided already.
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your ignorance must be bliss.
i have no words for you
 
RazumaHiroki said:
To me it seems like, you just can't accept that an One piece character won.

Judging by various threads you made and things you said, also the way you constantly tries to downgrade things.

I doubt you are capable of debating without letting your bias gets the best of you, so not really in the mood of debating over something that has been decided already.
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Your correct
 
Kidkinsey said:
So every instance of them not seeing the future passively or getting caught off guard is PIS? Maybe it's just not passive
Doffy didn't see the law and luffy shambles red hawk combo either
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Doflamingo did see the attack coming, but he didn't give himself enough time to prepare for it as his guard was down, and he was literally sitting in his comfy chair. He only realized what was happening once inside Law's room and thus had no time to react. After Law swapped places with him, we see that Doflamingo is nearly standing upright, meaning he started to move, but wasn't quick enough to receive the attack.

Keep in mind, Luffy never landed a hit on Doflamingo outside of that until after Law popped Gamma Knife. I'd say Doflamingo was fully capable of avoiding that Red Hawk, just that he was far too relaxed in that moment since the battle seemed entirely one-sided.
Kidkinsey said:
Why would he not alert them that danger is coming? And then tama proceeds to get kidnapped
P.S I fixed the links
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PIS, but also gotta consider focus is needed to make Haki work at full efficiency. Luffy's guard was down, and Tama being kidnapped was used as a tool to make the plot go along.

Luffy has a history of taking things easy post time-skip and trying to get a feel for how strong his opponents are, granted this isn't the case when he is serious about taking someone down (like in a versus discussion, since we assume they are willing to go for the kill)
 
RazumaHiroki said:
You know you are unnecessarily dragging this out and at the same time just conveniently ignoring all other arguments, instead of focusing on downplaying Observation Haki make a new thread or CTR and do it there, I can tell you already that you will get rejected. This is not about Observation Haki "downplay thread" it's Luffy vs Nagato.

Tama getting kidnapped is for the sake of the plot, like the same way they intentionally downplayed Naruto's sensory powers in Boruto so that Naruto doesn't instantly find out Kara's current whereabouts or Goku being fooled by things that he dealt back then in OG DB. Plot made Luffy not one shotting batman or knocking out via Haoshuko Haki, therefore irrelevant. Plot made Naruto not using a shadow close to protect Kawakari, while we are at it let's just downplay every verse for one anti feat!.

Now you are using this as an argument? As I said before, almost everyone in the new world has Kenbunshoku Haki. Law dealt with someone's pseudo-precognition, Doflamingo deal with someone's pseudo-precognition, and Luffy dealt with someone's pseudo-precognition. What do all three have in common? Kenbunshoku Haki which is precognition and pseudo-precognition! Batman is insignificant to the story and mostly a meme character using him as legitimate anti feat is rather sad, tbh. Also, your explanation is pretty bad as to why Luffy shouldn't know Law's ability. Furthermore, Doffy greatly underestimated them and just sat down and watched them fighting against Black knight and Bellamy, Luffy's battle instinct and knowledge of law's ability to teleport/swap thing gave him the idea when he tries to attack law, law can use switch himself with Doffy. Considering Law's abilities are instantaneous Doffy didn't had the time to dodge, you could tell by Doffy's expression he knew it was going to hurt him. Given Luffy's a Combat Genuis is that really something worth questioning?

During wholecake island arc Katakuri and Luffy almost fought for 24 hours with Katakuri passively using Observation Haki and avoiding Luffy's attacks, if it weren't passive then how exactly could he fight for almost 24 hours without being hit at least once by Luffy, who's practically a combat Genuis and effectively uses his environment to find a way to hit him. Luffy only was able to fight him after second round of their fight because Luffy was slowly approaching to his level.

You have two anti-feats, both are not in-combat, secondly for the sake of plot, thirdly Katakuri seeing Luffy taking brulee can honestly not be used to downplay his future sight. He saw Luffy taking brulee and emphasized "Oh no" because he accidentally kicked him near to her.


What next, his future sight or observation isn't perfect? Always has been nor is Sage Naruto's sensory powers and Goku's MUI, yet that doesn't matter because said powers hard counters specific characters. Allow me to clarify: Luffy even without Kenbunshoku Haki could see through distraction and even used it to his own advantage, a bit smoke or explosion wouldn't hinder Luffy's movements and sight, Kenbunshoku Haki and his listed abilities further enhancing this. So my question to you was how do smoke hinder Luffy's movements and sight, you suddenly brought up irrelevant things instead of answering my question.


Luffy was caught off-guard multiple times in Enies lobby, Sabaody Arc Time-skip, Skypia and other Arcs, yet Luffy managed to dodge while being distracted by thinking about his food, Hancock gave him, was being distracted by singing Aho-Baka, caught off-guard by Blueno's door door ability to spin his head, part of his training involved sleeping with a blindfold while sleeping with the animals. I can go on, if you want? and that's already more than your batman and Tama arguments.
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Saying something isnt passive is not downplaying it idk where you get that notion

If you tell me a character cant be caught off guard or distracted and I bring more then 1 example I Dont think thats downplaying. Again we cant say something is passive and everytime its called into question say PIS

He can just be dodging luffy with and speed and using haki alot, So now brulee cant be used either? You dont Think him seeing luffy steal his sister and flee the scene is important?

I never said a smoke or explosion would hinder luffy I bought up the homing missiles as a distraction and then people proceeded to just say distractions wont work

Batman and tama arent the Only arguments
 
CinCameron20 said:
Doflamingo did see the attack coming, but he didn't give himself enough time to prepare for it as his guard was down, and he was literally sitting in his comfy chair. He only realized what was happening once inside Law's room and thus had no time to react. After Law swapped places with him, we see that Doflamingo is nearly standing upright, meaning he started to move, but wasn't quick enough to receive the attack.

Keep in mind, Luffy never landed a hit on Doflamingo outside of that until after Law popped Gamma Knife. I'd say Doflamingo was fully capable of avoiding that Red Hawk, just that he was far too relaxed in that moment since the battle seemed entirely one-sided.

PIS, but also gotta consider focus is needed to make Haki work at full efficiency. Luffy's guard was down, and Tama being kidnapped was used as a tool to make the plot go along.

Luffy has a history of taking things easy post time-skip and trying to get a feel for how strong his opponents are, granted this isn't the case when he is serious about taking someone down (like in a versus discussion, since we assume they are willing to go for the kill)
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If he has PASSIVE precog how could he get caught off guard... Mind you doffy is fast enough to put aramament on his cheek before boundman blizted him

Saying his guard was down dosen't help when trying to argue for passive, but as I said earlier I know authors aren't gonna have these crazy abilities on 24/7 because they still have a story to write
 
Kidkinsey said:
Saying something isnt passive is not downplaying it idk where you get that notion

If you tell me a character cant be caught off guard or distracted and I bring more then 1 example I Dont think thats downplaying. Again we cant say something is passive and everytime its called into question say PIS

He can just be dodging luffy with and speed and using haki alot, So now brulee cant be used either? You dont Think him seeing luffy steal his sister and flee the scene is important?

I never said a smoke or explosion would hinder luffy I bought up the homing missiles as a distraction and then people proceeded to just say distractions wont work

Batman and tama arent the Only arguments
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Do you realize what "grace" means? We are done here so don't try to debate any further unless you wanna come off as really desperate.

I think OP is going to close this, because this thread slowly becomes off-topic anyways.
 
Also
Kidkinsey said:
I thought grace was like the after party where we just chill out till its closed
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Just look at the votes.... besides, the whole point of your arguments now specifically refers to only Observation Haki itself rather than Luffy vs Nagato.

If you don't like "passive precognition", even though we already explained to you how it happened and why it happened, but you refused to listen and brought up unrelated things.

I'll give you a word of advice, just make a thread or CTR. Honestly, this is not even the right place to discuss such things when it's already accepted by Knowledgeable One piece debaters, but you could try.
 
It only shifted to haki because people said distractions/ being off guard is impossible

Everything I bought up was quite literally scenes involving observation
 
FluffyCreatureZ said:
I thought grace meant a time where there could still be discussion about a thread before it gets added.
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We are basically waiting for OP or a Mod, but anyways I don't feel like the discussion is going anywhere
Kidkinsey said:
It only shifted to haki because people said distractions/ being off guard is impossible

Everything I bought up was quite literally scenes involving observation
Click to expand...
You are misinterpreting something, nobody said "Luffy was never caught off-guard" or never "being distracted" in his entire life. We said to someone who's been fighting ever since at the age of 6 and fought against tricky, cunning and ruthless enemies, that smoke nor missiles would definitely never distract Luffy as he now is, even if you take away his future sight, Luffy's still able to read Nagato's movements, sensing intentions and other stuff.

Luffy is the kind of person who went straight through Morgan's explosions and didn't bothered that his shield had spikes attached to it, his pain tolerance is through the roof your argument relies on the possibility that Luffy will be distracted by the missiles because he sees them as deadly, but the thing here is Luffy doesn't consider missiles a theat to him since the worst it can do is slightly hurt him??? But that's the least thing he would ever worry about because his gear 4 is already coated with Armament Haki, and that is something Nagato absolutely cannot predict, the one who will be catch off-guard would be Nagato.

You kept saying catching one off-guard and distractions, allow me to remind you who has superior reaction speed, badly outsenses, and is practically a combat genuis here? The Rubber boy. So saying he will be caught off-guard here is very unlikely.
 
Just a reminder for everyone:

When the thread reaches a valid vote count, a grace period of 24 hours will be acknowledged, starting when the final vote that resulted in valid vote count was posted. After this time period the match can be added, with proper format, to the respective characters' pages, or, for Tier 2 characters or otherwise locked profiles, requested in the Versus Addition Request Thread.

For a verdict, there must be at least seven votes in favor of one character/team, with a minimum difference of three votes. Some examples:

A final vote tally of 6-0 will be considered invalid.

A final vote tally of 7-0 will be considered valid.

A final vote tally of 7-4 will be considered valid.

A final vote tally of 7-5 will be considered invalid.
 
OneBleachHurricane said:
Just a reminder for everyone:

When the thread reaches a valid vote count, a grace period of 24 hours will be acknowledged, starting when the final vote that resulted in valid vote count was posted. After this time period the match can be added, with proper format, to the respective characters' pages, or, for Tier 2 characters or otherwise locked profiles, requested in the Versus Addition Request Thread.
For a verdict, there must be at least seven votes in favor of one character/team, with a minimum difference of three votes. Some examples:

A final vote tally of 6-0 will be considered invalid.

A final vote tally of 7-0 will be considered valid.

A final vote tally of 7-4 will be considered valid.

A final vote tally of 7-5 will be considered invalid.
Click to expand...
Gotcha that
 
I never said nagato would catch luffy off guard lol, That was a general statement because characters with danger sense intent enchanced senses etc still get caught lacking from time to time

Can Luffy charge through the missles? Sure I ONLY bought it up because it may buy him some time because nagato wont have time to clap his hands together in this fight apparently
 
Kidkinsey said:
I never said nagato would catch luffy off guard lol, That was a general statement because characters with danger sense intent enchanced senses etc still get caught lacking from time to time

Can Luffy charge through the missles? Sure I ONLY bought it up because it may buy him some time because nagato wont have time to clap his hands together in this fight apparently
Click to expand...
"That was a general statement because characters with danger sense inrent enhanced etc still get caught lacking from time to time."

Doesn't matter, because Luffy got better reflexes and reaction, also he's in his combat mode, in which he will try everything to take advantage of his enemy's weakness.

"It may buy him some time"

Except, it doesn't, and that pretty much defeats your point of distractions when said character isn't distracted at all and other said person wouldn't expect him to charge through his ability because he wouldn't know he would survive it, so your entire argument relies on the fact that Nagato somehow knew Luffy would survive this and use them as distraction, didn't know he had future sight too?.

Also, you are basically saying Luffy will stand still and watch him doing his ability, Luffy isn't Goku the moment Luffy charged through missiles it's a perfect opening to hit him with a Jet Cuverlin or Black Mamba then it's over. Superior reaction speed, unpredictable fighting style, and elements of surprise.
 
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No glaring weakness for him to take advantage of
Chibaku tensei isn't a spirit bomb it dosent require minutes of prep all he literally has to do is clap, Do you think this fight is gonna go down like G2 luffy vs blueno or something?
 
Kidkinsey said:
No glaring weakness for him to take advantage of
Chibaku tensei isn't a spirit bomb it dosent require minutes of prep all he literally has to do is clap, Do you think this fight is gonna go down like G2 luffy vs blueno or something?
Click to expand...
"No glaring weakness for him to take advantage of"

First off, it doesn't have to be an explicit weakness, Luffy's pain tolerance, elements of surprise via unpredictable fighting style, homing attacks, and future sight will allow him to see which techniques counters Nagato the most, either it's long range, close or mid, then adjusts his strategies accordingly to take advantage of what he learned and that in a split second to, furthermore the longer the fight the faster gets snakeman though speed is equalized, but he will just find out more ways to hit Nagato, but when it comes to stamina, Luffy is superior.

Chibaku Tensei's weakness has been revealed by Itachi himself that long range attacks aimed at the epicenter of Chibaku Tensei is it's weakness, so don't get me started with Luffy's superior lifting strength. Also, before anyone says it required all three to destroy the Epicenter of Chibaku Tensei. When Itachi wasn't sure himself if one powerful long range attack is suffice, considering he doesn't like taking risks it makes sense for him to ask Bee and Naruto to throw their range attacks as well, unless you wanna argue the epicenter of Chibaku Tensei is Island lvl, instead of the completed version.
 
Kidkinsey said:
No glaring weakness for him to take advantage of
Chibaku tensei isn't a spirit bomb it dosent require minutes of prep all he literally has to do is clap, Do you think this fight is gonna go down like G2 luffy vs blueno or something?
Click to expand...
"Do you think this fight is gonna go down like G2 Luffy vs Blueno"


It's mostly debatable anyways, since nothing is set in stone. So who knows if it's gonna go down like G2 Luffy vs Blueno or Luffy vs Krieg
 
RazumaHiroki said:
but the thing here is Luffy doesn't consider missiles a theat to him since the worst it can do is slightly hurt him???
Click to expand...
It won't feel anything... (no armament haki) luffy is near immune to lightning that's much hotter than any explosions plus resistance to blunt force (near immunity) will easily make luffy feel nothing from the explosions... Link and link
Kidkinsey said:
If he has PASSIVE precog how could he get caught off guard... Mind you doffy is fast enough to put aramament on his cheek before boundman blizted him

Saying his guard was down dosen't help when trying to argue for passive, but as I said earlier I know authors aren't gonna have these crazy abilities on 24/7 because they still have a story to write
Click to expand...
Observation haki users are able to use Instinctive Reaction that literally means he can't get off guard... Even if luffy is sleeping he will dodge link, link, link (dodged a laser off guard) and link. luffy can also sense intention and emotions so there is no off guard even more impossible with future sight.... Now of course nothing is truly impossible but it will 100% in this fight.
 
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Future sight is not passive but it can be with his other sensing abilities. 😁👍

m-kBKX.gif
 
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Bernkastelll said:
Coke Zero can be even worse than normal Coke, the high amount of sodium can literally clog ur heart
Click to expand...
😑 I’m a god… I don’t even need a heart. (I don’t drink that much now… Coke Zero used to be my thing that’s why I said it… now I drink sparkling water or juice or water or Coke Zero🌚)
 
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