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So why would a regular shockwave created by Beerus and Champa not follow science and result in each of them being half 2-C then?
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2-C Dragon Ball Super upgrade
- Thread starter FluffyCreatureZ
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It wasn't the shockwave in case of Beerus and Champa You see the ground below them being destroyed by some other effect of their fight. And going by standards, it can't be assumed twice as powerful unless we have evidence. So the combined effort is just unquantifiably stronger than either Beerus or Champa.
Not that considering it as 2x boost would change anything here.
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So is this only a thing that calcs are allowed to do? Because in every calc I’ve seen where two characters perform one feat, the value of the feat gets cut in half for each of them.
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This standard was put in place recently, so many old calcs might be doing it.
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So what are the conclusions so far? Will the At least Low2-Cs need to at least have an official 2x multiplier to reach 2-C, or do they need actual feats of affecting two universes at once?
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i agree hope they get upgraded.
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I agree with that, I see the destruction energy as the thing that would destroy the universes. Problem with that is that it's hax, so it's either the shockwave or no 2-C AP feat at all.
I mean I thought I brought up some decent evidence earlier.
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My points.
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No, it just means GoDs can’t beat him in a fight.
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Seems to me like they can’t get lucky to beat him either. Like the outcome between people with a 2 times AP difference isn’t always certain (even if they have no hax, which isn’t even the case here), meanwhile with Jiren it is certain.
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Why do people want to upgrade the dbs god tier characters to 2-C? The only one in DBS who have shown 2-C feats are Zeno and super shenron. And both did them alone unlike beerus champa, whose combine powers are 2-C.
They should remain the way they are. In fact I would support a downgrade for all angels, including the grand priest.
They should remain the way they are. In fact I would support a downgrade for all angels, including the grand priest.
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I'm just going to say I find the idea beerus or chumpa could beat the grand priest if they learned kioken rather ludicrous, and the fact that Gogeta would probably be 2-C if he ever showed up and used kioken blue very funny
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That's only if we restricted the angels and GP to 1/2 2-C. But we can give the something like "At Least low 2-C, like far higher". Something like this will be great. Giving them straight up 2-C without any feats is wrong.
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thats useless, they are higher since everything they did is effortless
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- Thread starter
- #216
The characters I want upgraded scale far higher than beerus and that's undeniable, beerus already scales above "half low 2-C" and jiren is significantly stronger, then you have MUI goku stomping him which in dragon ball means that it is 2x stronger. There is literally no denying that these guys are at least 2x above beerus so what is the issue for upgrading them? They can have the likely low multiverse rating and it'd be fine.
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Do you have undeniable proof of them being 2x Beerus? Scaling chains won't cut it.
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But they aren’t straight up 2-C. They’re ‘Likely 2-C.’
DivineAura44
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Friendly reminder that Saiyan 40009 caused this lol.
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what did he do?
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The grand priest is
DivineAura44
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Made a post Bills and Champa being 2-C. Nobody gave it much thought and instead focused on how tiers work.
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- Thread starter
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Same with blue gogeta stomping broly whos far above half low 2c and why do scaling chains not cut it?
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Could you give a source directly from the series and not the wiki?
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- Thread starter
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Gohan was comparable to cell in SSJ but stomped cell in SSJ2 which is only 2x.
DivineAura44
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That wasn't 2x. Been there, debunked that.
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- #228
Well, at half power, SSJ2 gohan was losing to cell, but at full power he obliterated cell completely. And in the saiyan saga, goku had a PL of 8000 and vegeta had a power level 18000, when goku went kaioken 3x he stomped vegeta with a power level of 24000 and this section of power levels is linear.
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Aren't we assuming that Beerus and Champa used their full power?
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- Thread starter
- #230
yes
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damn boiz yall slow
this guy is waaaaaaay ahead of you
vsbattles.fandom.com
After all he already upgraded gogeta to low 1-C
vsbattles.fandom.com
/s
this guy is waaaaaaay ahead of you
Gokuisomnipotent
vsbattles.fandom.com
After all he already upgraded gogeta to low 1-C
Gogeta (DBS Movie)
1 Summary 2 Powers and Stats 3 Others 4 Discussions Gogeta is the Metamoran Fusion of Goku and Vegeta, formed to defeat Broly. While all fusions have immense power, Gogeta's power is abnormal even by regular standards, as Vegeta and Goku's intense rivalry has brought out an exceptional power...
vsbattles.fandom.com
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can we not derail this thread with that boy as well?
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It's not the destruction energy. The effects are different.
Like Mav said, it just means Jiren is stronger. We don't know by how much.
We don't know. We can't just assume things like that.
These things are very very inconsistent throughout all of DB. You can stomp an opponent by being 1.1x higher in power levels (Vegeta vs Cui), and sometimes even being 10x stronger doesn't do that (Goku vs Hit).
The above inconsistent showings throughout DB is the reason why we don't use any such value for one shot. And not just in DB, you can't use a value like that for any series unless it is directly stated in-verse.
Just a reminder, that this same topic, with the same arguments have been discussed previously. After much discussion it was decided to just rate these characters as At least Low 2-C. Nothing new has been brought up here. So I will close this thread soon.
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Man so basically what you're claiming is that MUI goku shit stomping jiren who's >>> half 2-C isn't even 2x because "uhhh we can't assume, uhhh inconsistent, uhhhurmmm", this is crazy wtf.
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There’s no inconsistency going on here, but that’s right, we can’t assume they get a 2x multiplier just by having a large scaling chain. Even though it may seem like they are that much more powerful, compared to weaker characters
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- #238
What's wrong with assuming? If we have logical and correct feats that show these characters being far above each other, and it making sense logically in the context of the show and in the lore, then in my opinion, it's safe to assume they are stronger than a certain point like a mere 2x increase, it's literally in the DB wiki that you need 2x to stomp, and there are multiple examples in the show where characters stomp with 2x differences or more like gohan at half power barely on par with cell but obliterating him at full power, so MUI goku fodderizing Jiren who already should scale far above half low 2-C with the scaling chain is clear evidence that MUI goku should at least 2x stronger than Jiren same with gogeta. If you say "we can't assume because they could be 1.1x stronger or only barely stronger" or whatever then I feel that's weak reasoning because that's also assuming that it could be a very small increase when it could very well be a very big increase, and it being a very big gap is supported in the context of the show. These characters should at the very least get "At least universe+, possibly low multiverse" or something even though they should be treated like the angels and straight up get the tier.
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Yeah there was a thread about it, it seems only Beerus and Champa got corrosion inducement for it and not sure if it's seen as a property of destruction energy or not but I guess not then. Regardless this doesn't change my argument of it being hax so it's either the shockwave or no 2-C AP feat at all. And if it's the shockwave and DDM already established only fusions and spirit bomb function as an exponential power increase in DB, there'd be no reason for Beerus and Champa to not be half 2-C.
Fair
The stomping sure, but the nullifying attacks part, that seems to be exclusive to decent gaps in power (as in gaps usually preserved for transformations). Also doesn't Super usually go with big gaps not resulting in a stomp?
I agree with this, I don't think you can deny the realistic possibility of MUI Goku, LB Jiren and SSB Gogeta being low multiverse level.
Stefano4444
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Personally, i can only see two options for solve this matter.
1)
We can go with FluffyCreatureZ and having every characters much stronger than Beeus (beside the Angels) at "At least Low 2-C, possibly 2-C".
2)
We downgrade the Angels at "At least Low 2-C" and have only Super Shenron and Zeno at 2-C.
1)
We can go with FluffyCreatureZ and having every characters much stronger than Beeus (beside the Angels) at "At least Low 2-C, possibly 2-C".
2)
We downgrade the Angels at "At least Low 2-C" and have only Super Shenron and Zeno at 2-C.
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