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2-C Dragon Ball Super upgrade

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FluffyCreatureZ said:
If two GoDs can make a 2-C feat then the power gets divided between them, so If someone can take them both on at the same time he'd have to be 2-C. In dragon ball the power gaps are this big like I showed in the OP, so why is this logic wrong?
Click to expand...
Fighting 2 people doesn't mean your fighting those two people's combined strength. As written in the note, the way 4-D structures work is so complex to the point where you can't simply just slap a x2 multiplier gap on it and call it a day, and then proceed to attempt to just assume that said gap, which again is unquantifiable due to the way that higher dimensional structures work, is reached through mere scaling chains.
 
I'ma just put this out here:
Being half as strong as someone who can destroy two universes is still 2-C.

So if two of them can do a 2-C feat, then they will be 2-C individually, but very low on the scale.
Since the distance between universes cannot be determined,
To put it simply: Infinity divided by 2 is still infinity, or in this case...the power to destroy two universes is unquantified, but divided by half still cannot be quantified.
Now I have to leave, bye.
 
Crimson_Shadow101 said:
Fighting 2 people doesn't mean your fighting those two people's combined strength. As written in the note, the way 4-D structures work is so complex to the point where you can't simply just slap a x2 multiplier gap on it and call it a day, and then proceed to attempt to just assume that said gap, which again is unquantifiable due to the way that higher dimensional structures work, is reached through mere scaling chains.
Click to expand...
But the gap between the GoDs and 2-C is literally 2x though. And then if what you're saying is true, how are the angels 2-C?
Furudo_Erika said:
I'ma just put this out here:
Being half as strong as someone who can destroy two universes is still 2-C.

So if two of them can do a 2-C feat, then they will be 2-C individually, but very low on the scale.
Since the distance between universes cannot be determined,
To put it simply: Infinity divided by 2 is still infinity, or in this case...the power to destroy two universes is unquantified, but divided by half still cannot be quantified.
Now I have to leave, bye.
Click to expand...
WTFFFFFFFFFFFFFFF
 
Okay, now this conversation is leaning towards becoming a discussion about the way this site treats tier 2, which I have no interest in directly debating myself, so I will bow out of this thread. All I have to say is that with the way our standards work right now, DBS scaling will stay the way it is.
 
Pretty sure 2-C angels was a compromise solution, I'd frankly be up for downgrading DB from 2-C based off of the tiering system page note.
 
FluffyCreatureZ said:
But the gap between the GoDs and 2-C is literally 2x though. And then if what you're saying is true, how are the angels 2-C?
Click to expand...
It isn't though. This isnt just as simple as a half + a half makes a whole, we're dealing with 4-D structures that have unquantifiable numerical values between destroying multiple of them. Angels are what they are via being able to stop the 2-C feat itself though (or at least what I thought so) if this isn't the case, then Angels should be downgraded.
 
So again turning this 2-C upgrade DBS into downgrade Angel to atleast Low 2-C??????? From this point onward i swear every attemp to upgrade DB will turn into downgrade lol
 
If it's impossible to reach 2-C via multipliers and Beerus and Champas combined power is 2-C than both individually should be 2-C. If Beerus/Champa alone was Low 2-C than it shouldn't have mattered if there was 1 extra GoD or 1 million, they wouldn't be able to pull off a 2-C feat.
 
Is there actually anything that shows they are 2x stronger than the At least Low 2-Cs of this verse? Even though it may seem that they are that much more powerful, we can’t just upgrade them to 2-C because of a crazy scaling chain of superiority. I remember Naruto’s 5-Cs upgrade to Low 5-B being rejected because of this same reason. The characters were so close to the next tier, but there was nothing that was 100% surely justified for the next tier, even though there was some superiority thing going on in the verse
 
They don't need to be 2 times stronger or 2 trillion times stronger. They performed a 2-C feat, which cannot be reached by multipliers, so they have to be bare minimum baseline 2-C.
 
Seol404 said:
They don't need to be 2 times stronger or 2 trillion times stronger. They performed a 2-C feat, which cannot be reached by multipliers, so they have to be bare minimum baseline 2-C.
Click to expand...
Which of the currently At least Low 2-C characters performed a 2-C feat?
 
People are forgetting that upscaling from low2C feat is not same as downscaling from 2C feat.
Thats why divisors work for 2C for downscaling into low2C but multipiers don't work for upscaling from baseline low2C feat into 2C.

Whis>=baseline 2C= Beerus + Champa > Beerus or Champa=2C divided by 2=Unquantifiable Low2C.

Yes 2C divided by 2 is low2C, technically between low2C and 2C, thats why its Unquantifiably above baseline low2C.

I agree with upgrades for anyone who is 2x more powerful than Beerus or Champa.
 
BluudyManikin777 said:
Is there actually anything that shows they are 2x stronger than the At least Low 2-Cs of this verse? Even though it may seem that they are that much more powerful, we can’t just upgrade them to 2-C because of a crazy scaling chain of superiority. I remember Naruto’s 5-Cs upgrade to Low 5-B being rejected because of this same reason. The characters were so close to the next tier, but there was nothing that was 100% surely justified for the next tier, even though there was some superiority thing going on in the verse
Click to expand...
That was because the multiplier was arbitrary and unknown, here we know for sure its 2x.
 
GilverTheProtoAngelo said:
People are forgetting that upscaling from low2C feat is not same as downscaling from 2C feat.
Thats why divisors work for 2C for downscaling into low2C but multipiers don't work for upscaling from baseline low2C feat into 2C.

Whis>=baseline 2C= Beerus + Champa > Beerus or Champa=2C divided by 2=Unquantifiable Low2C.

Yes 2C divided by 2 is low2C, technically between low2C and 2C, thats why its Unquantifiably above baseline low2C.

I agree with upgrades for anyone who is 2x more powerful than Beerus or Champa.
Click to expand...
I disagree with 2-C divided by 2 being Low 2-C, u can't divide a infinite number and result less than infinite, 50% of 2-C is still 2-C
 
This is crazy, literally every other person is bringing up a different way for how tier 2 works, is there not a god damn consensus on how to scale tier 2 in this wiki? WTF
 
Once you get into tier 2 and 1 things can get REALLY ****** for a verse
 
GilverTheProtoAngelo said:
Whoever said difference between baseline 2C(2 space times) and low2C (1 space-time) is infinite

You should read the 2C tier info page.
Click to expand...
It literally is, Tiering System page says that it is impossible to reach a higher Tier even if you are infinitely above the baseline for that Tier.
 
Seol404 said:
Like, if Beerus and Champa are both Low 2-C and they got amped 1 Decillion times stronger they would still only be Low 2-C and therefore incapable of destroying both Universe 6 and 7.
Click to expand...
Except it’s kind of been established that you would need at least a definite 2x multiplier, because of the feat Beerus and Champa pulled off

Edit: DB is really confusing when it comes to Tier 2s sometimes
 
Seol404 said:
It literally is, Tiering System page says that it is impossible to reach a higher Tier even if you are infinitely above the baseline for that Tier.
Click to expand...
Exactly , exactly... you can never reach a consecutive space-time by multipliers or divisors, you will end up between them.

But we take that unknown position realtive to nearest lesser space-time for scaling.

This is better explained by an analogy,
Take any 2 consecutive space-times, 1st&2nd or 3rd&4th or 1 millionth and 1million one....
Doesn't matter...I'll take 8th and 9th as examples.
Both 8 space-times is also lowMulti and 9 space-times is also lowMulti.
Imagine 8th and 9th consecutive space-times as benchmarks/milestones on a road.
But the distance between them is unknown.

Say a person A is walking from 8th to 9th, he goes forward 2 miles on it, we know fro sure its 2X above baseline 8 space-times, but we don't know if he has reached 9th space-time since distance is unknown and he is between 2 milestones . Thats we can only rate him at 8 space-times albiet 2x above baseline 8 space-times.

Now take person B going back from 9th to 8th. He goes 2 miles backwards, so he cannot be rated as 9 space-times since he is just like person A standing between the 2 milestones.
He will be rated as 8 space-times, only difference is he is unquantifiably above 8 space-times, but we know for sure he is 2x less then 9 space-time. So we know how much distance he has to backtrack to end up back at 9th space-time.

Same is low2C( 1 space-time) and 2C( 2 space-time) instead of above example.

https://cdn.**********.com/attachments/826400106391666728/844100505792675840/20210518_120332.jpg

Thats why anyone 2x stronger than Beerus is 2C.

Low2C<<<<<<Beerus<2x<Whis.
 
Look like some people actually don't understand. The distant between two space-time universe are unquantifiable not infinite, unless the verse themself specifically detail on that. The reason for multiplier can't get you from Low 2-C to 2-C is because the distant is unknown, thus it could be infinite or even just 1cm apart from each other and it is vary depend on verse, so we don't even know how much multiplier could get you from Low 2-C to 2-C, so to be safe, wiki go with the solution of multiplier will just get you atleast Low 2-C and very deep into it, kind of like using Low-End in a calculation
In DB case, it is already being established as both Beerus and Champa combine force with have a baseline 2-C destruction, so x2 either of them will actually get you baseline 2-C feats,
Also if you multiplier 2-C you actually could get into 2-B
The Note is:
Due to the fact that the distance between any given number of universes embedded in higher-dimensional / higher-order spaces is currently unknowable, it is impossible to quantify the numerical gap between each one of the subtiers in Tier 2. As such, it is not allowed to upgrade such a character based solely on multipliers. For example, someone twice as strong as a Low 2-C character would still be Low 2-C, and someone infinitely more powerful than a 2-C would not be 2-A.

But again back to the topic, i disagree with the scaling chain, it fall apart the moment it mention half 2-C < Beerus < Belmod < Jiren. Nothing state that, GoD current max power are unknown and we can't use them scale, also nothing stated Beerus < Belmod and don't bring the arm wrestling thing here, is can't be use as feat, right now all GoDs are roundly equal. Next we have Goku and jiren there are only occasion of Complete UI Goku is stronger than Beerus by a magazine/guide book, and Limit Break Jiren scale to UI Goku cause he could content with Goku, but the gap between Goku/Jiren level and GoDs are also unquantifiable, Broly is just "probably" stronger than Beerus through Goku statement, but Goku know nothing of Beerus max power make the statement vague so make Gogeta can't be scale, according to novel he definitely holding back, but the amount of power he holding back is unknown again. So i totally disagree with this, at best Gogeta, the only scaling for character to be actually 2-C is atleast directly scale to Angel, but no one can currently
 
I feel like people are misunderstanding that note on the Tiering System page. Yes, you can't move up to 2-C via multipliers since the gap is unknowable. That said, Dragon Ball is a special case because we can actually quantify the power needed to reach 2-C, that is being 2 times stronger than Beerus since that much power can destroy 2 universes.

I have no comment on the scaling chains but I felt like I should point this out.
 
Vietthai96 said:
Look like some people actually don't understand. The distant between two space-time universe are unquantifiable not infinite, unless the verse themself specifically detail on that. The reason for multiplier can't get you from Low 2-C to 2-C is because the distant is unknown, thus it could be infinite or even just 1cm apart from each other and it is vary depend on verse, so we don't even know how much multiplier could get you from Low 2-C to 2-C, so to be safe, wiki go with the solution of multiplier will just get you atleast Low 2-C and very deep into it, kind of like using Low-End in a calculation
In DB case, it is already being established as both Beerus and Champa combine force with have a baseline 2-C destruction, so x2 either of them will actually get you baseline 2-C feats,
Also if you multiplier 2-C you actually could get into 2-B
The Note is:
Due to the fact that the distance between any given number of universes embedded in higher-dimensional / higher-order spaces is currently unknowable, it is impossible to quantify the numerical gap between each one of the subtiers in Tier 2. As such, it is not allowed to upgrade such a character based solely on multipliers. For example, someone twice as strong as a Low 2-C character would still be Low 2-C, and someone infinitely more powerful than a 2-C would not be 2-A.

But again back to the topic, i disagree with the scaling chain, it fall apart the moment it mention half 2-C < Beerus < Belmod < Jiren. Nothing state that, GoD current max power are unknown and we can't use them scale, also nothing stated Beerus < Belmod and don't bring the arm wrestling thing here, is can't be use as feat, right now all GoDs are roundly equal. Next we have Goku and jiren there are only occasion of Complete UI Goku is stronger than Beerus by a magazine/guide book, and Limit Break Jiren scale to UI Goku cause he could content with Goku, but the gap between Goku/Jiren level and GoDs are also unquantifiable, Broly is just "probably" stronger than Beerus through Goku statement, but Goku know nothing of Beerus max power make the statement vague so make Gogeta can't be scale, according to novel he definitely holding back, but the amount of power he holding back is unknown again. So i totally disagree with this, at best Gogeta, the only scaling for character to be actually 2-C is atleast directly scale to Angel, but no one can currently
Click to expand...
Agree , unless we absolutely certainly know that someone is 2X stronger than Beerus wr shouldn't give them 2C.
Only the ones that have for certain 2X or above should have it.
 
GilverTheProtoAngelo said:
Agree , unless we absolutely certainly know that someone is 2X stronger than Beerus wr shouldn't give them 2C.
Only the ones that have for certain 2X or above should have it.
Click to expand...
Even Angel only have likely 2-C due the fact that Whis and Vados just going to prevent a 2-C destruction and other Angels scale from them, the Beerus + Champa feat is not even happen yet
 
Agree, scans which say "Jiren is stronger than god" is just higher in the DB Low 2-C, BUT we have scans which says Gods, meaning all of them or a a multiple value, Whis scale to 2-C because of that, this is perfectly right, because Low 2-C DB come from Half 2-C, meaning if you are stronger than 2 DB Low 2-C you are 2-C.

But probably my input dosen't matter and Angels wil get downgraded to Low 2-C. But ye im still here.
 
Vietthai96 said:
Even Angel only have likely 2-C due the fact that Whis and Vados just going to prevent a 2-C destruction and other Angels scale from them, the Beerus + Champa feat is not even happen yet
Click to expand...
Yeah thats because of small uncertainty on whether they can stop them or not , a feat which is not even happen. But logically you'd still need 2x to match the potential feat if it had happened.
 
manu_zarri said:
Agree, scans which say "Jiren is stronger than god" is just higher in the DB Low 2-C, BUT we have scans which says Gods, meaning all of them or a a multiple value, Whis scale to 2-C because of that, this is perfectly right, because Low 2-C DB come from Half 2-C, meaning if you are stronger than 2 DB Low 2-C you are 2-C.

But probably my input dosen't matter and Angels wil get downgraded to Low 2-C. But ye im still here.
Click to expand...
Don't pull the context out of its butt like that, the scan meaning is just GoD in general, he not stronger than all of GoD combine
 
manu_zarri said:
Agree, scans which say "Jiren is stronger than god" is just higher in the DB Low 2-C, BUT we have scans which says Gods, meaning all of them or a a multiple value, Whis scale to 2-C because of that, this is perfectly right, because Low 2-C DB come from Half 2-C, meaning if you are stronger than 2 DB Low 2-C you are 2-C.
Click to expand...
Scaling above gods can just mean that he's stronger than a certain number or any one of them individually, not that he's stronger than multiple or all of them combined.
 
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