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It's trivializing distance and time, not the distance and time are non-existent.
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Removing Immeasurable high Priest
- Thread starter Fixxed
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"“The concepts of distance and time don’t matter here"
"dosen't matter"
In context it could also mean has no meaning, or something like that
if not then it's vague, meaning that another proof for help this quote is needed
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You are just assuming that it doesn't exist when nothing implies this being the case.
As a matter of fact this quote does suggest otherwise
It’s just in destiny’s hands whether we run across each other in this place where the tiniest gap extends to an infinite distance☆”
^So the distant if not suggested to be undefined is in fact infinite between ever point in the hidden world with the MGs trivializing it by ignoring time since it doesn't matter to them
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Honestly at this point, you are taking on that "don't matter" too much a focus and ignored the context where the tiniest gap on said place covers an infinite distance because, the concept of distance has no meaning. "Meaningless" can be a preposition to be above or transcendent, we don't assume 1-As are non-dimensional since they treats dimensions on its very extensions as meaningless, rather than to be beyond it, for instance. So it's case by case.
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and a timless void can also have infinite distance aswell. though it's understandable, but it's like, "Likely immeansurable" or "possibly immeansurable". or just edit the speed justification withouth changing the rating
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Just change it to unknown. They don't have proper speed feats anyway
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But the context here is not a space with infinite distance, but a tiniest gap can extends to an infinite distance, it's trivializing the distance itself.
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You can't have your cake and eat it too, the feat is there. Try to debunk it here then.
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It's not a timeless void tho? It only refereed as a place where time doesn't matter where every point can stretch out to infinity with MGs travailing said concept.
If you think their justification doesn't apply then we just need to adjust them a bit
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just change the justification that is writed on profile
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Agreed, it can be vague for some, yeah.
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Don't attack someone profile bro
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So you will just change the profile and close the crt, right?
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- Thread starter
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Waiting input other moderator
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It probably is, although I think it should stay.
The hidden world is beyond the concepts of distance and time. What this means is shown in the case of distance, with them being at the same time "a hair’s breadth and an infinite distance away". Being beyond time should be similarly implemented. Maybe putting it as something similar to spatiotemporal Omnipresence in the Hidden World would be better, although that would be Immeasurable relative to someone outside of it.
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@DontTalkDT
Okay. Can you check through our current Speed standards for immeasurable speed, to see if it still qualifies?
I would appreciate your help with this as well @DarkDragonMedeus .
Okay. Can you check through our current Speed standards for immeasurable speed, to see if it still qualifies?
I would appreciate your help with this as well @DarkDragonMedeus .
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Rereading the details of our currents standards, I think it's best to just rank them as "Omnipresent throughout the spacetime equivalent of the hidden world".
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I think that’s okay
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Omnipresent within and Immeasurable outside, correct?
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Well, there are debates about having temporal omnipresence not automatic evidence for Immeasurable combat speed and reactions; which I personally think it wouldn't but should probably saved for more details later on. That being said, I think "Omnipresence within the Hidden World" sounds like a better rating. I made mention that simply being able to reach a higher dimension isn't enough, but being able to move through at least one temporal dimension as if it were an open spaced spatial dimension is what Immeasurable speed is. I made mention that simply "Existing outside of time and space" is not Immeasurable speed, but "Existing in a realm were time and space are completely irrelevant" does have stronger bearing but still not 100% certain.
However, I think DT's final proposals of simply being "Omnipresent throughout the spacetime equivalent of the hidden world" will suffice.
However, I think DT's final proposals of simply being "Omnipresent throughout the spacetime equivalent of the hidden world" will suffice.
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Just a small question, doesn't the concept of an undefined distance trivialize an infinite distance, increasing the chances of immeasurable speed? (Isn't it a big proof that a character is immeasurable speed,briefly?)
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I think it should, anyway, shouldn't the speed rating should be Omnipresent within Hidden World, and Immeasurable outside it?
Since we ain't using that omnipresence in matches, I believe.
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The downgrade thread became an upgrade thread lmao thanks guys
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By our current standards, I don't think so. To quote the speed page:
Basically, the MG's would have something like Immeasurable travel and attack speed from an outside perspective, but not reaction speed and hence not combat speed.
IMO it's a downgrade as far as practical purposes are concerned.
Aleister never scaled to any of this, though.
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He has both NPI for destroying a nonexistent place and the power to walk in places time and space don't exist, but at least by Zensum's post these powers seem to be wrong.
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They aren't omnipresent in that phase though. Are you sure that's the better rating?
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I wasn't exactly sure bout the rating cuz I didn't check the speed description but I look at it, this doesn't seems to make much sense.
MGs being omnipresent makes no sense, given that it is pure luck that they stumble into each other in the hidden world and the text clearly shows they actually move around, and aren't everywhere at once.
Also makes no sense to divide their speed into travel speed and reactions, besides the fact we have zero reason to assume this, that would also simply allow MGs to be able to one shot each other with no possible counter.
They also fight against each other all the time.
Immeasurable speed makes most sense, DontTalks suggestion makes things way more complicated than it has any right to be
MGs being omnipresent makes no sense, given that it is pure luck that they stumble into each other in the hidden world and the text clearly shows they actually move around, and aren't everywhere at once.
Also makes no sense to divide their speed into travel speed and reactions, besides the fact we have zero reason to assume this, that would also simply allow MGs to be able to one shot each other with no possible counter.
They also fight against each other all the time.
Immeasurable speed makes most sense, DontTalks suggestion makes things way more complicated than it has any right to be
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Meh, instead of speed, i think they should have the same thing as Aleister, as well as reword the power a bit:
"Can move in places with infinite and no space and where there is no time"
We know those places have no effect in their ability to survive or move so it still needs to be in their profiles, but i guess we simply don't have proof it scales to their speed (same reason why Aleister does not have any speed for fighting them, even tho we know High Priest was trying to kill him).
A long time ago i said their unability to defeat each came from Probability hax making every fight a draw, which would also stop each other even with a massive gap in their reaction and attack speed, but someone said this interpretation was wrong so whatever, but this isn't the point of this thread anyway.
"Can move in places with infinite and no space and where there is no time"
We know those places have no effect in their ability to survive or move so it still needs to be in their profiles, but i guess we simply don't have proof it scales to their speed (same reason why Aleister does not have any speed for fighting them, even tho we know High Priest was trying to kill him).
I mean, if we go by their profiles they can one shot each other since they don't have a single resistance.
A long time ago i said their unability to defeat each came from Probability hax making every fight a draw, which would also stop each other even with a massive gap in their reaction and attack speed, but someone said this interpretation was wrong so whatever, but this isn't the point of this thread anyway.
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XDragnoir seems to make a good point. What do you think about this solution DontTalk?
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Also, i want to add that space here isn't just 3d (toaru has 11 dimensions, 10 spatial and 1 temporal).
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Errr that doesn't change anything, extra spatial dimensions doesn't make physical travel more impressive.
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Agree with antavasima
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