Necrozoma: Absorbing the light of the universe

[ProfessorKukui4Life]

Funny you bring them up because in that very same arc Gohan at 50% Gradually and slower overpowers Cells Ki later on, showing that 2x there is a clear notable gap. That show elaborates on a notable gap in strength, and I can guarantee you there isn't one smaller then 1.77x

Here, Zygarde is physically overpowering Mewtwo even without his weakness and only a few blows knocked him out, so that example actually supports my point, though its a different verse so that's not really relevant anyway.

Fair enough on the DB point.

But the latter point is wrong. Mewtwo was already inflicted with damage indirectly by Lysander bullying Blaines, who before Mewtwo fought Zygarde, was hit with Zygarde's lands wrath and was then hit with an attack from Gyrados, which made Mewtwo's Mega Y form vanish. Considering the 2 consecutive collateral attacks Blaines put up with, Mewtwo's weakness was a contributing factor to what it does next as Mega X.

 

[Schnee_One]

I'll concede on that point, I'll wait on what the others have to say

 

[ProfessorKukui4Life]

Not to mention, Blaines was also hit by the dragon pulse that caused Mewtwo to be momentarily knocked out.

 

[LordTracer]

This revision is going to be removing the 5-B+ from the Aura Trio and Mega Mewtwo, right? Cause there doesn’t really seem to be a reason for them to have it, going off of their profiles.

 

[ProfessorKukui4Life]

This revision is going to be removing the 5-B+ from the Aura Trio and Mega Mewtwo, right? Cause there doesn’t really seem to be a reason for them to have it, going off of their profiles.

Yeah Cal pointed this out before. The likely was only put in to be conservative, but we know for a fact now that they scale to the light trio, so the likely 5-B is not necessary anymore.

 

[LordTracer]

Yeah Cal pointed this out before. The likely was only put in to be conservative, but we know for a fact now that they scale to the light trio, so the likely 5-B is not necessary anymore.

Okay, nice. Does that mean Mega Rayquaza is also getting an upgrade? Its profile currently scales it above Mega Mewtwo.

 

[ProfessorKukui4Life]

Yup. Gets the same rating, just upscaled.

 

[LordTracer]

Nice. So if I’m understanding correctly, aside from the Light Trio and Aura Trio, Kyurem, Zekrom, Reshiram, Mega Ray, Mega Mewtwo, Genesect and the Swords of Justice are all getting upgraded?

 

[ProfessorKukui4Life]

Yup. And now that I think about it, Landorous, Thunderus and Tornadus need upgrades too.

They fight and equal the Swords of Justice in the manga.

 

[Peter1129]

Only Therian Forme though. Since that’s the form they used when they fought the Swords of Justice with. Once they turned back into Incarnate forme they were easily overpowered and defeated.

 

[ProfessorKukui4Life]

Only Therian Forme though. Since that’s the form they used when they fought the Swords of Justice with. Once they turned back into Incarnate forme they were easily overpowered and defeated.

Yeah this.

 

[LordTracer]

I appreciate that Unova is getting quite the major amp

 

[ProfessorKukui4Life]

Victini also needs to be upgraded btw.

 

[Garchomp777]

What about the regis? They fight regigigas

 

[ProfessorKukui4Life]

What about the regis? They fight regigigas

?

 

[Peter1129]

Oh right Unbound Hoopa and Magearna would also scale.

Unbound Hoopa basically stomped Reshiram Zekrom, and Regigigas by himself and Magearna is stronger than 50% Zygarde as Zygarde decided to use 100% rather than 50% to stop its beam.

 

[Garchomp777]

Lugia scales to Hoopa too. I don't think Lugia has any low showings to put him below hoopa level. And then maybe the bird trio too

 

[ProfessorKukui4Life]

Neither the birds or Lugia are scaling to this.

 

[Waka1979]

I thought we don't use the hoops movie as a basis for feats as if we did everyone would scale to th creation trio

 

[LordTracer]

Oh yeah, wouldn’t Mew also scale with Transform?

 

[Garchomp777]

Neither the birds or Lugia are scaling to this.

Why

 

[LordTracer]

Why

There’s literally no reason for them to?

 

[Garchomp777]

There’s literally no reason for them to?

Lugia fought hoopa

 

[Waka1979]

Lugia fought hoopa

We do not use Hoopa and the legend unbound in our pokemon scaling. If we did everyone would scale to the creation trio

 

[LordTracer]

Yeah, literally nobody scales to Hoopa.

 

[Garchomp777]

We do not use Hoopa and the legend unbound in our pokemon scaling. If we did everyone would scale to the creation trio

I don't think you can disregard the entire movie like that even if you think no other legendary scales to the creation trio

 

[ProfessorKukui4Life]

I thought we don't use the hoops movie as a basis for feats as if we did everyone would scale to th creation trio

Nah, the Hoopa movie is fine to use when ignoring the creation trio. Hoopa stomping the Tao duo and Regigigas is safe scaling.

Oh yeah, wouldn’t Mew also scale with Transform?

Yeah. Mew scaling with Transform was already accepted in a thread I made for it since Mew was proven to have a Tapu Guardian and Ultra Beasts DNA. It just has yet to be applied. But we can do that with these upgrades.

Lugia fought hoopa

Which is an outlier for Lugia. Not Hoopa.

The Hoopa that Lugia "beaten" was Shadow Hoopa. Hoopa at that point had his power split between Confined and Unbound, which created some kind of false hoopa in the process. Which of course means Hoopa for majority of the movie wasn't actually using his true true levels of strength. The only time it does was in the beginning of the movie when stomping Regigigas, Reshiram and Zekrom.

Adding to that, Shadow Hoopa had no control of his power either and was running amok. As such, Lugia beating it should be whats the outlier.

 

[Garchomp777]

Ok.
If a trainer trains their articuno to become stronger than another trainer who has a zekrom, do you think their Articuno would be 4-a/3-c? Something like this happened in the arcade games and I'm trying to see if any trainer there is worthy of getting a profile


Btw the only legendaries who wouldn't scale to necrozma are the bird trio, johto trio, the regis and galarian ones, right?

 

[ProfessorKukui4Life]

All of that is kind of off topic to this. The birds and lower legendaries are fine where they are. Leave them be.

 

[Waka1979]

Nah, the Hoopa movie is fine to use when ignoring the creation trio. Hoopa stomping the Tao duo and Regigigas is safe scaling.

Gotcha

 

[LordTracer]

So, does this have enough support to be applied yet?

 

[ProfessorKukui4Life]

I think so? Though as I mentioned, there's still the matter of the High 3-A stuff that was decided to be taken to its own thread. Which if anything comes out of that, the ratings will be changed up again.

So I say we should wait on actually applying anything until I make that thread.

 

[Schnee_One]

No, we add the changes first, especially if High 3A doesn’t get accepted

 

[StrymULTRA]

So, imo the best choice is to choose between 4-A+ and 3-C because the gap is simply too small to make us use both the 2 tiers.

And, the best choice, reading again the posts, is to make Mega Mewtwo just 3-C, as it can't be weaker than Base Necrozma, who's literally the base of the scaling chain, and if Mewtwo got even weaker, and thus justified why he got in difficulty against Zygarde, him being >= Base Necrozma is more than justified.

(Last change of mind I promise lol)

 

[Schnee_One]

I can agree to that

 

[ProfessorKukui4Life]

So, imo the best choice is to choose between 4-A+ and 3-C because the gap is simply too small to make us use both the 2 tiers.

And, the best choice, reading again the posts, is to make Mega Mewtwo just 3-C, as it can't be weaker than Base Necrozma, who's literally the base of the scaling chain, and if Mewtwo got even weaker, and thus justified why he got in difficulty against Zygarde, him being >= Base Necrozma is more than justified.

(Last change of mind I promise lol)

Okay I can agree to this

 

[ProfessorKukui4Life]

No, we add the changes first, especially if High 3A doesn’t get accepted

And if it does? We’ll be changing over a dozen profiles that would potentially need to be changed again. That’s doing more work than needed.

Plus High 3-A, IF it goes through, isn’t going to replace 3-C. 3-C will be staying on the pages one way or another (High 3-A is at best getting a Likely) so I’m not seeing the point of doing big changes to the pages now when it’s more efficient to wait on everything.

And if High 3-A gets rejected, then we can change them to what’s was agreed on here.

 

[LordTracer]

Oh, last question that I have:

Why is Mega Rayquaza considered to be stronger than Mega Mewtwo? Did they fight in the manga or is there a scaling chain going on somewhere?

 

[ProfessorKukui4Life]

Oh, last question that I have:

Why is Mega Rayquaza considered to be stronger than Mega Mewtwo? Did they fight in the manga or is there a scaling chain going on somewhere?

I asked this question before too.

IIRC it’s because of how they compare to Deoxys (Base Rayquaza being equal to Deoxys while Base Mewtwo struggled)

But I could be wrong on this.

 

[LordTracer]

I asked this question before too.

IIRC it’s because of how they compare to Deoxys (Base Rayquaza being equal to Deoxys while Base Mewtwo struggled)

But I could be wrong on this.

Ah, I guess that makes sense. Although I think it’d be nice if the profile made note of this somewhere.