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Necrozoma: Absorbing the light of the universe

Tho, reading here from the upscaling revision, it was generally accepted a x1.3 for in-verse huge gaps, so we can apply it here.

If Zygarde is x1.7, Mewtwo would be around x1.2 baseline, and thus still a solid 3-C.
 
I wouldn't use that revision yet because it isn't concluded and it was even mentioned that Downscaling requires a separate thread.

That said, we mostly agreed on 4A+ to 3C, and we can adjust that really easily if revisions change it, so I think that's the best option
 
Something as small as 1.77x is going to be restrictive when it’s such a small difference as is
 
Idk why we’d use an “x, likely y” when the difference between the two is like the difference between 0.9 and 1.1. Just choose one. And I prefer the former
 
Sigh. Then I guess a straight 3-C if we're against using any likely's or possiblies in the rating.

I just don't genuinely see this tiny gap between them being too big enough to drop out of 3-C. And im not changing my mind on that.
 
Dude, Mewtwo vs Zygarde was one sided. The reason Mewtwo scales at all is because the latter was amped and he could feasibly block attacks with effort.
 
Zygarde is too close to baseline and the gap between it and Mewtwo is too big to allow them being close the same to baseline, simple.
 
If anything, just make Mewtwo baseline as Necrozma is and call it a day if you want to fit the scaling in the context of the verse.
 
The_real_cal_howard said:
Dude, Mewtwo vs Zygarde was one sided. The reason Mewtwo scales at all is because the latter was amped and he could feasibly block attacks with effort.
Click to expand...
It wasn't one sided. I debunked this already.

And Zygarde wasn't amped either. That was also debunked and that actually needs to be removed from the pages.

StrymULTRA said:
Zygarde is too close to baseline and the gap between it and Mewtwo is too big to allow them being close the same to baseline, simple.
Click to expand...
Which is your arbitrary head canon with no basis.
StrymULTRA said:
If anything, just make Mewtwo baseline as Necrozma is and call it a day if you want to fit the scaling in the context of the verse.
Click to expand...
Which is literally what we were going to do, along with a "likely" to keep it even more safe, but your complaints against this are the only thing stalling it.
 
ProfessorKukui4Life said:
Which is literally what we were going to do, along with a "likely" to keep it even more safe, but your complaints against this are the only thing stalling it.
Click to expand...
But why tho? Mega Mewtwo and Base Necrozma should at very least be comparable to each other, so why not making them straight 3-C the same?
 
Because of the earlier discussions in this thread not being 100% sold on it, so "likely" was thrown in as a compromise to acknowledge both ratings. But for whatever reason, your making this out to be a "all or nothing" situation.
 
ProfessorKukui4Life said:
It wasn't one sided. I debunked this already.

And Zygarde wasn't amped either. That was also debunked and that actually needs to be removed from the pages.


Which is your arbitrary head canon with no basis.

Which is literally what we were going to do, along with a "likely" to keep it even more safe, but your complaints against this are the only thing stalling it.
Click to expand...
Stop saying you debunked it as if it's a fact. You provided an alternate interpretation of the events. Nothing more, nothing less. We disagree with it.

Because yeah, I agree with Cal that 4-A+ should be used here. And it's so insignificant a difference anyway that I don't understand how it generated so much discussion.
 
It’s a Pokémon thread

Can we do the bloody 4A+ to 3C thing? This discussion is pointless at this rate
 
LephyrTheRevanchist said:
Stop saying you debunked it as if it's a fact. You provided an alternate interpretation of the events. Nothing more, nothing less. We disagree with it.
Click to expand...
And you need to provide a counter argument or else said disagreement is irrelevant. So no, im going to keep saying it because the debunk stands.
LephyrTheRevanchist said:
Because yeah, I agree with Cal that 4-A+ should be used here. And it's so insignificant a difference anyway that I don't understand how it generated so much discussion.
Click to expand...
You just answered the question. Because the difference is so insignificant that it not being 3-C at all has absolutely no basis to it.
 
And I agree with that but given it could change given the downscaling thread it can be settled after those discussions.
 
ProfessorKukui4Life said:
And you need to provide a counter argument or else said disagreement is irrelevant. So no, im going to keep saying it because the debunk stands.

You just answered the question. Because the difference is so insignificant that it being not 3-C at all has absolutely no basis to it.
Click to expand...
That’s completely false, you personally believe a minuscule difference of not even 2x is enough to KO someone physically even without the weakness, it’s not a matter of counter argument, it’s your personal belief.

The difference is insignificant, the strength between Zygarde and Mewtwo even without the weakness is significant, shown above Mewtwo can’t even physically block attacks from Zygarde
 
Schnee_One said:
That’s completely false, you personally believe a minuscule difference of not even 2x is enough to KO someone physically even without the weakness, it’s not a matter of counter argument, it’s your personal belief.
Click to expand...
Much like its the personal disbelief of the opposing side thinking this difference is enough to drop out of the tier when nothing actually says it would?

The whole basis for this just being 4-A+ is incredulity.
Schnee_One said:
The difference is insignificant, the strength between Zygarde and Mewtwo even without the weakness is significant, shown above Mewtwo can’t even physically block attacks from Zygarde
Click to expand...
Except, it did block the attacks. Successfully. Was it overpowered? Yes. But Mewtwo didn't fail to stop anything from Zygarde from any sort of extent that your claim is making out. And even when hit with a few attacks after, Mewtwo got right back up afterwards.

The strength difference is being over-exaggerated here.
 
ProfessorKukui4Life said:
Much like its the personal disbelief of the opposing side thinking this difference is enough to drop out of the tier when nothing actually says it would?

The whole basis for this just being 4-A+ is incredulity.

Except, it did block the attacks. Successfully. Was it overpowered? Yes. But Mewtwo didn't fail to stop anything from Zygarde from any sort of extent that your claim is making out. And even when hit with a few attacks after, Mewtwo got right back up afterwards.

The strength difference is being over-exaggerated here.
Click to expand...
Wrong, it's not a belief that less then 2x is a borderline insignificant difference, the gap between a highly athletic human and a peak human is massive by comparison

No, it didn't, literally got knocked out for a few minutes after said few attacks, not something a less then 2x difference can do without striking a major part of the body.

It's a less then 2x difference, you ar making it out as if that difference is bigger then it is, not the other way around.
 
Schnee_One said:
Wrong, it's not a belief that less then 2x is a borderline insignificant difference, the gap between a highly athletic human and a peak human is massive by compariso
No, it didn't, literally got knocked out for a few minutes after said few attacks, not something a less then 2x difference can do without striking a major part of the body.

It's a less then 2x difference, you ar making it out as if that difference is bigger then it is, not the other way around.
Click to expand...
What even is your point here? You know my argument here is for the difference between Mewtwo and Zygarde to be smaller than what is being made out to be here in this thread right?
 
Yes, but you’re painting it as if the gap between a clearly physically stronger enemy and Mewtwo, is less then 2x, otherwise it wouldn’t be galaxy level, however, if the gap was that small, there would be no notable weakness in strength otherwise

My point is the same as everyone who agreed with 4A in this thread, we’re saying the gap is too small between Zygarde and baseline 3C that it’s superiority to Mewtwo, would have to be bigger or that strength difference wouldn’t be noticeable in the fight, weakness aside
 
Okay I get that, but my problem is that these "ap difference" arguments are being kind of too arbitrary with what constitutes a "notable strength" difference or not, at least with the use of these numbers that are being pulled.

And if it needs to be reiterated more, then the weakness should be made more of a point on why this strength difference even exists in the first place.
 
Less then 2x is not a notable difference in strength, even real life cases can show that.

We aren't being arbitrary, we have literally been saying it for years on so many threads, versus thread related, CRT related and otherwise.
 
For starters, the gap being noticeable. Just because the gap is noticeable doesn't mean it speaks to the strength difference being a bit too big, too notable, or otherwise.
 
ProfessorKukui4Life said:
For starters, the gap being noticeable. Just because the gap is noticeable doesn't mean it speaks to the strength difference being a bit too big, too notable, or otherwise.
Click to expand...
The gap being noticeable obviously shows that the difference between them is a notable gap, something that a less then 2x difference cannot do
 
Schnee_One said:
Less then 2x is not a notable difference in strength, even real life cases can show that.
Click to expand...
So what would you say about, for instance, Goku and Cell?

Not to pull a different verse into this, but their strength difference was only "slight" and IIRC, Korrin noticed it pretty immediately when Goku asked him to compare to Cell.
 
Funny you bring them up because in that very same arc Gohan at 50% Gradually and slower overpowers Cells Ki later on, showing that 2x there is a clear notable gap. That show elaborates on a notable gap in strength, and I can guarantee you there isn't one smaller then 1.77x

Here, Zygarde is physically overpowering Mewtwo even without his weakness and only a few blows knocked him out, so that example actually supports my point, though its a different verse so that's not really relevant anyway.
 
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