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Minor Whis speed fix.

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Yes but the bigger we scale it the bigger the distance in speed becomes. And once we get a sizeable gap we can scale from there. Which actually scales the speed higher and certain DB downplayers wouldn't like that.
 
Yes but the more we scale it the bigger the distance becomes. And once we get a sizeable gap we can scale from there. Which actually scales the speed higher and certain DB downplayers wouldn't like that.
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Dude, you know the DBZ universe is treated like, at least 4x the size of our universe? There is no downplay, it's considered a large universe here.
And it doesnt matter how big it is, because both Whis' and Beerus feat would scale the exact same in response to the increase of the universe.

Increase the universe' size by literal a million, both the Whis and Beerus feat would both increase by a million, and literally nothing would change because the same issue exists in which there's only a 5x difference between and thus the whole multiplier thing still presents a end result of being nearly 10000000x Whis.
 
Axxtentacle said:
What exactly is the opposition to nuking Whis’ current calc?

The accepted multipliers being used conservatively get a much higher value than the calc. That should be all we need to say that the calc isn’t correct, no? Our timeframe is guessed because it’s a “I don’t think it would be faster than this” for a lowball.

We’re not even using all multipliers. This is literally 2 multipliers being applied where they should be because it only makes sense for them.
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Chariot190 said:
Dude, you know the DBZ universe is treated like, at least 4x the size of our universe? There is no downplay, it's considered a large universe here.
And it doesnt matter how big it is, because both Whis' and Beerus feat would scale the exact same in response to the increase of the universe.

Increase the universe' size by literal a million, both the Whis and Beerus feat would both increase by a million, and literally nothing would change because the same issue exists in which there's only a 5x difference between and thus the whole multiplier thing still presents a end result of being nearly 10000000x Whis.
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There is one, like I said only problem is no-one like it. SO like I said, we should get more evidence on the Universe. The Dragon Ball universe being uneven through-out is a perfect reason why this might happen.
 
@Antvasima
Issue is the Whis calc is purely a speculated timeframe of 10 sec that is a minimum low ball. We never see when his flight starts. He could be any amount faster, so it is not valid as a cap on other feats/scaling using the 10 sec since it in and of itself is just a guess and could be vastly faster.

The Whis feat is basically "Whis flew to Earth in less than 10 sec." Those are the facts. How much less than 10 sec is completely open ended, 10 sec is the absolute max time it could have been. He could have done it in 10 sec, 1 sec, 1 nanosecond, we are never told or shown and all are just as valid since he blitz every other character who has a feat, so there are no other contradictions to it. So if your assuming a 10 sec timeframe, thats fine for a low ball to get a minimum number, but saying no other feat or multiplier can be used if it is past this, since they will contradict each other, is objectively false since it is only going to contradict the head canon 10 sec, not the feat itself which could have been any timeframe, and thus could be consistent.

I get that the multipliers increase their speed value, but that is literally what happens in the show/manga and is the nature of DB, to increase their speed and power and break their old limits. We just happen to have some instances where numbers are explicitly attached to these values.

I don't see a reason to exclude clear multipliers tbh, we use them already to calc speed for DBZ with Kaioken and SSJ, so it would be double standards to ignore them now. The best solution imo is to ditch the Whis feat since it has no specific timeframe to begin with, and just say Whis scales above Goku with the above multipliers. Simple, factual, conservative, and as accurate as possible without ignoring the given multipliers, which are an integral part of DB and have been used for years on the wiki to some degree.
 
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Like I said I think the better thing to do is hold off of the Speed Ball Calc and focus on the Whis calc until we get more info on the calcs. Then again my opinion's are usually trash.
 
SSJRyu1 said:
@Antvasima
Issue is the Whis calc is purely a speculated timeframe of 10 sec that is a minimum low ball. We never see when his flight starts. He could be any amount faster, so it is not valid as a cap on other feats/scaling using the 10 sec since it in and of itself is just a guess and could be vastly faster.

The Whis feat is basically "Whis flew to Earth in less than 10 sec." Those are the facts. How much less than 10 sec is completely open ended, 10 sec is the absolute max time it could have been. He could have done it in 10 sec, 1 sec, 1 nanosecond, we are never told or shown and all are just as valid since he blitz every other character who has a feat, so there are no other contradictions to it. So if your assuming a 10 sec timeframe, thats fine for a low ball to get a minimum number, but saying no other feat or multiplier can be used if it is past this, since they will contradict each other, is objectively false since it is only going to contradict the head canon 10 sec, not the feat itself which could have been any timeframe, and thus could be consistent.

I get that the multipliers increase their speed value, but that is literally what happens in the show/manga and is the nature of DB, to increase their speed and power and break their old limits. We just happen to have some instances where numbers are explicitly attached to these values.

I don't see a reason to exclude clear multipliers tbh, we use them already to calc speed for DBZ with Kaioken and SSJ, so it would be double standards to ignore them now. The best solution imo is to ditch the Whis feat since it has no specific timeframe to begin with, and just say Whis scales above Goku with the above multipliers. Simple, factual, conservative, and as accurate as possible without ignoring the given multipliers, which are an integral part of DB and have been used for years on the wiki to some degree.
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I personally would not particularly mind, but it seems to contradict our otherwise used praxis, and as such would set a bad precedent, which would likely not be accepted by our staff.

Is the compromise suggestion that I mentioned above really so unacceptable?
 
@Antvasima The issue is it doesn't contradict the praxis of the site. The site won;t use power levels becouse they are inconsistent, but Kaioken multipliers and SSJ have been accepted as very clear and consistent buffs in speed. The site already uses KK and SSJ1 multipliers for DBZ. The site also uses other official multipliers in other series for justifications like In Bastard where it is said Uriels power increased 130 times, or Mori Jin getting his 250,000 times multiplier applied. If anything not applying these multipliers when they are explicitly speed related and clear would be against the praxis of the site.

The compromise doesn't acknowledge clear multipliers at all is the problem. At most I could agree to having them be listed as "At least 196 quadrillion c, likely at least 98 sextillion C with conservative multipliers" As outlined above. Not even mentioning the actual numbers for multipliers would be basically ignoring them though.
 
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The problem is compromise while a good one, doesn't fix the problem at hand. This is not only a problem with solvable outcomes that can also work, but just push aside some logic (like the fact the wiki has been using multipliers a long time) for the sake of the argument.
 
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Antvasima said:
To satisfy everybody involved in this argument, couldn't we just make sure that any characters swifter than Beerus' reaction feat have their profile pages mention that they should be far swifter than the calculated result, without any specific multipliers involved? Cal does have a good point in that we should not make exceptions in our standard procedures for specific fictions after all.
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DDM has some issues with Cal's statements regarding multipliers, he said he'll respond when he gets the time.
 
It wouldn't make sense for ssj/kk multiplayers not to be accepted. For example dyspo was fighting ssg goku then goes blue in other to increase the speed and power. Hereby showing transformation increase the speed through multiplayers
 
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KLOL506 said:
DDM has some issues with Cal's statements regarding multipliers, he said he'll respond when he gets the time.
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Okay. Thanks for the information.

SSJRyu1 seems to make a good point btw.
 
Alphaapexnep00 said:
It wouldn't make sense for ssj/kk multiplayers not to be accepted. For example dyspo was fighting ssg goku the goes blue in other to increase the speed and power. Hereby showing transformation increase the speed through multiplayers
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It's a matter of if we do problems arise.
 
Antvasima said:
Okay. Thanks for the information.

SSJRyu1 seems to make a good point btw.
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Yeah, I agree with his points too, in fact, DDM was gonna explain in detail about how we accept solid and explicitly stated multipliers for other verses that are much bigger than what Dragon Ball usually goes through.
 
KLOL506:

Okay. That seems fine then.
 
Let's stop spamming here until Medeus makes his post please.
 
EDIT: I MADE A MASSIVE MISTAKE IN THE MULTIPLIERS.
 
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KLOL506 said:
OK so...

Half-serious Beerus > Base DBS Goku after gaining God ki - both are 196 quadrillion c

SSJ1, SSJ2, SSJ3, SSG and Pre-Goku Black Saga SSB- Massively above 196 quadrillion c

U6 Saga SSBKKx10- At least 19.6 quintillion c

SSB from Hit rematch and onwards- at least 19.6 quintillion c (Since apparently Goku only used SSB against Hit after going through a plethora of zenkais, training montages and other power ups due to Goku Black happening and other arcs I completely forgot, and Goku no longer needed to go towards Kaio-Ken on top)

ToP Saga SSBKKx20 Goku- at least 392 quintillion c

UI1, UI2 and UI3 Goku- Massively above at least 392 quintillion c

MUI Goku- Even higher than the previous forms

That's the best I could come up with regarding the scaling chain for now.
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Isn't Post UIO2 SSB Goku stronger than UIO1? That would be a x20 boost cuz UI is stronger than SSBKKx20 right?
 
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