Minor Whis speed fix.

[Axxtentacle]

Back to seriousness.

Cal, your issue is that it’s an absurd boost to have, right? What does it contradict, though? If you can give me something that it would contradict that isn’t the Whis calc, since Ryu already pointed out the issue with that, I’ll concede. But till then it’s just an argument of legit “It doesn’t make sense that these characters would be that fast” without giving a proper reason.

 

[DivineAura44]

If we accepted the multipliers for another franchise, I would absolutely be arguing this for said franchise. I’m not a dragon ball wanker.

He is so not a DB wanker. I've seen him argue against stuff which can 100% swing either way.

 

[Axxtentacle]

Cal became a changed man after talking to Mr. Seth. I feel like he’s perfectly capable of being reasonable here.

 

[San-Kakarot]

It is clear that Whis flight to earth was to show his speed. While the whole clash explosion was never intended to show Goku and Beerus speed. I think we should downscale Goku's speed to Whis's best shown feat so far. Also the multiplier is pure hype and contradicted by Whis. Thus we should downscale all his form from MUI to a certain speed and use the multiplier to reach a reasonable number for MUI Goku towards Whis's 500 quadrillion xC.

 

[DivineAura44]

So take 100% percent true multipliers (on downplay lemme remind you) just so we can place Whis at his casual speed? Sure why not.

 

[KLOL506]

It is clear that Whis flight to earth was to show his speed. While the whole clash explosion was never intended to show Goku and Beerus speed. I think we should downscale Goku's speed to Whis's best shown feat so far. Also the multiplier is pure hype and contradicted by Whis. Thus we should downscale all his form from MUI to a certain speed and use the multiplier to reach a reasonable number for MUI Goku towards Whis's 500 quadrillion xC.

In combination we could also use the explosion calc as the absolute fastest Goku can go without MUI.

 

[Axxtentacle]

Whis’ timeframe is literally headcanon for a lowball.

This argument has been used multiple times, if you’re not bringing up something new, don’t keep responding.

 

[SSJRyu1]

This can all be solved by showing me someone Goku blitzing someone in an improved form that he was keeping up with in base. Only time I can think of is Hit, who still wound up keeping up with SSBKK Goku in the end.

No problem. Goku is being blitzed by Frieza 50% then goes SSJ and blitzes Frieza 50%. Vegeta stomping Semi Perfect Cell with Grade 2 SSJ when his SSJ was inferior. The Hit example as you said. Goku being foderized by Jiren in power and speed until he got UI sign. Goku's MUI allowing him to blitz FP Jiren who was faster than him prior. These are some examples of transformations allowing characters to blitz guys that were faster than them.

 

[San-Kakarot]

In combination we could also use the explosion calc as the absolute fastest Goku can go without MUI.

The explosion calc shouldn't be used, since it implies that BOG Goku is anywhere near Whis clearly best shown speed feat. While the explosion isn't a speed feat and never intended to be. It's comparing a vague "speed" feat that contradicts with a clear speed feat.

 

[Axxtentacle]

Ok, thanks for completely ignoring me. I’ll say it a little louder this time.


The time period for the Whis calc is literally a guess to try to lowball it.

 

[Arcker123]

Beerus reacted to it so he scales to the bomb.

 

[San-Kakarot]

Ok, thanks for completely ignoring me. I’ll say it a little louder this time.


The time period for the Whis calc is literally a guess to try to lowball it.

Like the explosion "speed" feat is not guess work.

 

[Arcker123]

Like the explosion "speed" feat is not guess work.

A guess is guess work.

 

[Axxtentacle]

You can’t use that calc to say “everybody else can’t pOSSIBLY be faster than this because this is a stronger character than themselves’ calc” when the calc is LITERALLY GUESSING A TIMEFRAME.


All characters being able to be faster tells us is that the calc isn’t necessarily correct.

 

[Arcker123]

I mean, is the only argument that multipliers are inconsistent?

 

[Axxtentacle]

Yes, but this is using the few multipliers we do accept.

 

[San-Kakarot]

You can’t use that calc to say “everybody else can’t pOSSIBLY be faster than this because this is a stronger character than themselves’ calc” when the calc is LITERALLY GUESSING A TIMEFRAME.


All characters being able to be faster tells us is that the calc isn’t necessarily correct.

Even, if we multiplie Whis's speed by 10,000 fold. In other words, if we assume Whis only used 0,01% of his speed during the flight. Goku with the mulitpliers stacking would be near it or surpass Whis's max speed, without SSG, SSB or MUI form and we know Whis is far above MUI Goku. Unless, you think Goku is near Whis speed without the god forms.

 

[FluffyCreatureZ]

Even using the very few multipliers we know, Goku and the other characters get so fast they reach the sextillions FTL.

 

[Arcker123]

Even, if we multiplie Whis's speed by 10,000 fold. In other words, if we assume Whis only used 0,01% of his speed. Goku with the mulitpliers stacking would be near it without SSG, SSB or MUI form and we know Whis is far above MUI Goku. Unless, you think Goku is near Whis speed without the god forms.

What part of the Calc isn't neccasirly correct do you not get?

 

[Axxtentacle]

Even, if we multiplie Whis's speed by 10,000 fold. In other words, if we assume Whis only used 0,01% of his speed during the flight. Goku with the mulitpliers stacking would be near it without SSG, SSB or MUI form and we know Whis is far above MUI Goku. Unless, you think Goku is near Whis speed without the god forms.

Stop strawmanning. Nobody is making any of those claims.


The claim is that, even if this is his max speed and his statement is right, the timeframe we used for it is literally complete headcanon. All weakers characters being faster than this calc would prove that our timeframe is too long.

 

[San-Kakarot]

Stop strawmanning. Nobody is making any of those claims.


The claim is that, even if this is his max speed and his statement is right, the timeframe we used for it is literally complete headcanon. All weakers characters being faster than this calc would prove that our timeframe is too long.

You completely dodged the important points I made and showed the absurdity which logically concluses from the muliplier stacking.

 

[San-Kakarot]

What part of the Calc isn't neccasirly correct do you not get?

I gave Whis a ten thousand times boost for his speed feat and showed the multiplier stacking still wouldn't work. That is a big problem, unless you think Whis got there in 0,00000001 seconds.

 

[Arcker123]

I gave Whis a ten thousand times boost for his speed feat and showed the multiplier stacking still wouldn't work. That is a big problem, unless you think Whis got there in 0,00000001 seconds.

What part of the Calc isn't neccasirly correct do you not get?

 

[Axxtentacle]

You completely dodged the important points I made and showed the absurdity which logically concluses from the muliplier stacking.

What important points? You brought up the bomb, something i’m not discussing and nobody here was discussing.

 

[KLOL506]

BTW I remember one of the comments on Whis's calc saying that the 498 quadrillion c thing was done via a technique called Warp, but I do remember Whis using Warp for combat purposes quite frequently (Prolly could be wrong). I wonder if that would help smooth things out a bit.

 

[Axxtentacle]

I’m not sure honestly. How would that even affect it?

 

[KLOL506]

I’m not sure honestly. How would that even affect it?

Honestly, even I don't know.

 

[Axxtentacle]

If it’s used for combat as well, then I don’t see it being very impactful.

Honestly, the Whis calc being nuked is something I can support lmao. It contradicts our accepted multipliers and it’s timeframe is a guess.

 

[San-Kakarot]

I suppose to put Whis at "At least 500 quadrillion xC likely much faster" and everyone else downscales from that.

 

[FluffyCreatureZ]

Multipliers contradict that.

 

[San-Kakarot]

Multipliers contradict that.

Feats>multipliers

 

[KLOL506]

Feats>multipliers

Only when the multipliers are not explicitly stated to have a set multiplier, Kaio-Ken however is one of the multipliers that has its multpliers set in stone.

 

[FluffyCreatureZ]

Yup and the 196 quadrillion calc is an accepted feat. With multipliers, that surpasses whis' feat.

 

[KLOL506]

Yup and the 196 quadrillion calc is an accepted feat. With multipliers, that surpasses whis' feat.

Which in and of itself is kind of a big problem.

 

[Axxtentacle]

I suppose to put Whis at "At least 500 quadrillion xC likely much faster" and everyone else downscales from that.

The calc is based on GUESS WORK. Using it as FACT is blatantly dishonest.

Feats>multipliers

But the feat you're claiming contradicts it is calced in a way that we literally don't know is accurate. If other characters are faster, then the calc is inaccurate. It's that simple.

 

[DivineAura44]

BTW I remember one of the comments on Whis's calc saying that the 498 quadrillion c thing was done via a technique called Warp, but I do remember Whis using Warp for combat purposes quite frequently (Prolly could be wrong). I wonder if that would help smooth things out a bit.

The fact that it's combat proves he wasn't using his actual speed but a combat technique (Combat techniques should be slower/equal to speed.) It proves he didn't care about the speed. He is supposed to be unbiased and partial so that's why he wasn't schmooving.

 

[SSJRyu1]

@The_real_cal_howard

We will tackle the biggest problem first. I challenge ANYBODY to prove without a doubt that Whis flight feat during the Arale episode took 10 seconds or more. If you can't then its a head canon low ball to use 10 sec like I am asserting, and in no way a valid way to try and put a cap on the DB cast speed, period, since the feat is based on a low ball number that could really be any level faster.

THIS NEEDS TO BE SETTLED BEFORE ANYTHING ELSE SINCE IT DECIDES IF THE WHIS FEAT ARGUMENT BEING CONTRADICTORY IS VAILD.

 

[Axxtentacle]

I don’t think anyone can prove the time period.

 

[The_real_cal_howard]

No problem. Goku is being blitzed by Frieza 50% then goes SSJ and blitzes Frieza 50%. Vegeta stomping Semi Perfect Cell with Grade 2 SSJ when his SSJ was inferior. The Hit example as you said. Goku being foderized by Jiren in power and speed until he got UI sign. Goku's MUI allowing him to blitz FP Jiren who was faster than him prior. These are some examples of transformations allowing characters to blitz guys that were faster than them.

Goku vs Frieza, round 1. While I remember Goku blitzing him in Super Saiyan, I don’t remember Frieza blitzing Goku. Just raw overpowering. Otherwise the Spirit Bomb would’ve never hit, distracted or no. Counter example with them. Golden Form is a boost to the millions. It allows base Frieza, who’s about base Goku’s level, to be on the level of Blue, if not beyond. And yet there’s quite a few fights in the ToP where someone challenges both forms, the big three of universe 11 being prime examples. The finale involves a tired Jiren, who’s still strong enough to knock Frieza out of Golden, being beaten by a tired Goku, 17, and Frieza. But a tired Jiren should be millions of times stronger if he could knock Golden out of Frieza. And then there’s just Broly...

Cell. No. Cell Didnt blitz anyone. Neither did Super Vegeta. It was all raw power there.

Goku literally used all his forms from base up to Blue Kaio-Ken. If multipliers were consistent then he would’ve gotten one-shot during that sequence when he challenged Jiren in base when the latter should’ve been literally millions of times stronger because of lolmultipliers.

 

[The_real_cal_howard]

@The_real_cal_howard

We will tackle the biggest problem first. I challenge ANYBODY to prove without a doubt that Whis flight feat during the Arale episode took 10 seconds or more. If you can't then its a head canon low ball to use 10 sec like I am asserting, and in no way a valid way to try and put a cap on the DB cast speed, period, since the feat is based on a low ball number that could really be any level faster.

THIS NEEDS TO BE SETTLED BEFORE ANYTHING ELSE SINCE IT DECIDES IF THE WHIS FEAT ARGUMENT BEING CONTRADICTORY IS VAILD.

Here’s my rebuttal.
Show me a single calc where the timeframe of when a character shows up and arrives at a distance where people will argue that it’s actually faster (without legitimate reasons like being distracted). You won’t, because people don’t. It’s literally just you guys (again, no offense). And forgive me for answering your demand with another demand.