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Yeah.
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Minor Whis speed fix.
- Thread starter FluffyCreatureZ
- Start date
- Status
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It'd make no sense having Goku and the likes having higher travelling speed than Whis tho.
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Yeah, but the thing with travelling speed being relative to attack speed in Dragon Ball is a thing.
The Broly Movie is canon to the anime, right? If so, I feel the existence of Broly failing to tag Whis contradicts Whis’ statement about that being the FASTEST he can go. Someone who scales MASSIVELY ABOVE what we accept AND the multipliers we accept can’t tag someone who would be way slower than the people with these multipliers?
Correct me if i’m wrong, but I just don’t believe the statement is solid.
The Broly Movie is canon to the anime, right? If so, I feel the existence of Broly failing to tag Whis contradicts Whis’ statement about that being the FASTEST he can go. Someone who scales MASSIVELY ABOVE what we accept AND the multipliers we accept can’t tag someone who would be way slower than the people with these multipliers?
Correct me if i’m wrong, but I just don’t believe the statement is solid.
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Like I and Cal have already said, DB doesn't treat that like it's a thing, travelling speed and combat speed are relative to each other.
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The solution for me is just not taking his statement as the fastest as he can possibly go literally. Characters are fallible.
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Well yeah but I don't think we can simply ignore the multipliers also amplifying travel speed either unless we can certifiably determine how high Goku's travel speed compares to the likes of Whis.
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Yes, we could just remove the Whis travel speed feat in lack of better options.
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Yeah, I’m saying we can put Whis above Goku because he’s shown to be above people Goku aren’t above anyway, like Broly. I’m not saying we ignore the multipliers, i’m saying we don’t cap Whis out at this calc.
I’m not entirely sure how that affects scaling. We could still genuinely say others just scale above that, because there’s no contradictions there.
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@Antvasima
I would recommend replacing the Whis travel speed calc with the new calc here since Whis scales above Goku, and the current Whis travel speed calc has an assumed timeframe, so it is not a very concrete calc in the first place tbh, since it could be much faster, we just don't know by how much. The rest of DBS certainly shouldn't be held back by a calc that has an assumed low ball timeframe which could be much faster.
We could go the route of saying Whis is faster than Goku so his travel speed feat must have happened in x amount of time to be faster, but that seems unnecessary. Just say he scales above Goku with this multiplier calc and be done with it. One simple straight forward calc with conservative official speed multipliers.
That's my recommendation.
I would recommend replacing the Whis travel speed calc with the new calc here since Whis scales above Goku, and the current Whis travel speed calc has an assumed timeframe, so it is not a very concrete calc in the first place tbh, since it could be much faster, we just don't know by how much. The rest of DBS certainly shouldn't be held back by a calc that has an assumed low ball timeframe which could be much faster.
We could go the route of saying Whis is faster than Goku so his travel speed feat must have happened in x amount of time to be faster, but that seems unnecessary. Just say he scales above Goku with this multiplier calc and be done with it. One simple straight forward calc with conservative official speed multipliers.
That's my recommendation.
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I think that could indeed be a proper solution.
If Whis's speed in that calc is indeed high-balled and could be potentially faster, then I'd say to leave that for another thread.
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This isn’t a case of “oh they have higher feats so we can write off the lower feat as inconsistent.” If Beerus’s universe feat came out as higher than Whis’s, I wouldn’t have a problem, or at least not as much of one. My problem is that this is another example of multipliers being a bad concept. We do know of a time when Whis has used effort, and that’s when he sparred with his dad, and Whis has said that the infamous feat he’s done was the fastest. Visible fatigue or no, Whis states that 500 quad c feat is his peak. No other circumstance I’ve ever seen has someone just say “well they could go faster even though they’ve implied otherwise” without a higher calc (mind you, not stacking multipliers) unless it’s this instance right here. And I’ve said it before. Ten seconds will never be a lowball. 1 second will never be a lowball. It’s very dishonest saying that’s a lowball for almost any occasion. If anything it’s a highball (1 sec, not 10 secs).
As I probably implied, I disagree with just making Whis faster because lolmultipliers. It’s dumb and there’s no faster feat than Whis’s. We’ve literally never made this exception before.
As I probably implied, I disagree with just making Whis faster because lolmultipliers. It’s dumb and there’s no faster feat than Whis’s. We’ve literally never made this exception before.
- 8,851
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- Thread starter
- #94
The problem with whis' travel speed is that it is easily surpassed with multipliers. If you want to treat travel speed and combat speed as the same then remove whis' travel speed key, because it's actually way too low compared to the other characters' true speeds.
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To be fair, Whis is never shown to be explicitly saying it like "OMG this is the absolute fastest I can go", he only says "I've never gone so fast before" but yeah, this is indeed a lingering issue even with everything else considered.
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Multipliers would still jack up the speed beyond Whis even if you decided to keep both travel and combat speed separate, it's not like Kaio-Ken just stops amplifying after increasing strength and combat speed you know, it also amplifies travel speed, all of them simultaneously. But like Cal stated already, DB doesn't work like that, travel speed and combat/reaction speed are tied together.
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It doesn't seem like anyone responded to this
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- Thread starter
- #98
Then what do you think should be done? If your suggesting to max their speed at whis' travel speed feat then that would be pure downplay.
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I mean, Cal already brought it up before you did so...
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From what i'm reading, he wasn't saying the same thing.
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I was talking about the "travel speed = combat speed in Dragon Ball" thing.
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Yeah. That's not the entirety of my point. What about the rest?
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If anything that proves my point more. That the boosts are nowhere near as insane as people hype them up to be, if Broly, who’s at the pinnacle of DB scaling, can’t touch the 500 quad c Whis.
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- Thread starter
- #104
But the 490 quad calc is immediately contradicted by the accepted 196 quad calc if you don't accept combat speed and travel speed as separate.
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So, we're just going to take the calc over everything else and assume that the characters, ever since BoG, never even got 3x faster? That sounds irrational to me.
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The 498 quad c was contradicted from the moment SSB KKx10 became a thing, even before the 196 quad c calc came into existence.
Beerus is 3/4 that of Whis, 375 quad c. He only fought against Goku while being somewhat serious which would at the very least mean that Beerus would at the very least be half as fast as his serious self- 187.5 quad c, and his website bio literally states him being able to destroy a universe with little resistance AKA the speed of the ensuing universe-busting explosion would also be of little to no hindrance to him, not to mention the universe busting speed calc is just a little over half that of Beerus's serious speed AKA even if his travel speed was twice as fast as his combat speed, multipliers would definitely screw it all up right then and there. Which further reinforces my point that DB takes travel speed and combat speed+reactions as one single unit.
Unless there's evidence that Beerus was going slower before the universe was going to shit, this is pretty much what the speed scaling would show us. And even then the multipliers would eventually creep up to Whis's current calc right before Mastered UI is hit.
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^^^^^
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Honestly, I don't know, the multipliers jack up way beyond Whis's speed but to deny the multipliers having any validity is also equally stupid.
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- Thread starter
- #109
Well if you KNOW that whis' max speed thing is contradicted, then why continue down playing? I already proposed a solution to use both the 498 calc and the 196 calc but you said that travel speed and combat speed aren't separate in DB. This doesn't make sense anyway so if it upsets you then just discard the whis calc and use the new 196 calc.
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I think we should just dismiss his statement as fallible. Denying multipliers overall I don’t think any of us think is accurate. They’ve been here since DB.
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They are, which is why I’m happy with SSJRyu’s use of being the most conservative with multipliers as he can be. Even if we don’t think it fits in, Dragon Ball does not function with the multipliers if we use Whis’ statement, but we know that the multipliers are set-in-stone. It just makes more sense to dismiss a character statement.
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- Thread starter
- #113
I agree. Multipliers cannot be dismissed especially in DB.
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Like, this only breaks the story if you accept Whis’ statement. We don’t necessarily have to use his statement, it’s more than logical to say he’s fallible and it makes sense considering it contradicts such a big part of dragon ball.
Rikimarox2
He/Him- 7,725
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So we basically disregard literally every multiplier, believe that they haven't gotten at the very least 3x faster ever since BoG, and all because of a single statement/feat from Whis? Am I actually hearing this correctly?
Arcker123
He/Him- 7,433
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As stated previously fastest he has ever gone is not a statement of limitation, whis was very casual and was not tired at all iirc.
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I mean, the only characters that so far scale to Whis are the Angels themselves and Grand Priest scales leagues above all of them combined, with only Broly, MUI Goku and Burning Ultimate Warrior Jiren coming even close to tagging Whis in the speed department.
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- Thread starter
- #118
Stop downplaying. This guy put it perfectly
You literally dismiss the only multiplier that is accepted (kaioken) just to make that true. It's asinine.
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They can easily be dismissed. They cause far more problems than they’re worth, because they spam numbers with no backing. If anything DB is one of the easier series to get rid of for multipliers. It’s not an RPG where you veritably prove someone’s doing 4x more.
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Also I want someone to show me a single other series where someone says they’ve never gone that fast before, and people will say that they can go above that w/o verifiable proof they can. Heck, show me a series where anything less than a half million times boost w/o feats is considered downplay.
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